Show your "Long C" Craftsman!

[Oldtuleguy]

The eagle patent lawsuit. Ultimately dismissed.

 

[d42jeep]

I recently acquired this Craftsman C-97 1/2" drive ratchet from D42jeep to go along with the rest of my Craftsman C-series tools.

Also of interest is the two styles of C-93 breaker bars. The top one came with the socket set and the one below it came from Smokeshow a couple years ago. Do I guess correctly when I say those are the result of a patent lawsuit between Snap-on and Plomb?

The ratchet makes the rest of the set look like ****. Now I need to upgrade ...

Brian

Brian,
The ratchet looks much better with your set. I’m glad that it went to you.
Here are some rusty Circle H sockets and a CI combo wrench I found recently. What is the current thinking about who might have manufactured this wrench?
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

From my notes: CI = Moore Drop Forge, ca. 1935 - 1944 (currently applies to Craftsman underline Vanadium wrenches only)

 

[d42jeep]

Thanks for your quick response. I have several CI marked wrenches of various descriptions. I’m curious about the evidence available regarding who made the different styles. I’ve also heard various other manufacturers suggested.
-Don

 

[tombell572]

This deep offset DBE set was purchased new by my Dad and passed along to me. The rack is my later addition. Wrenches are marked CI.

Tom B.

jpg.gif IMG_1752.jpg (153.0 KB)

 

[Outlawmws]

D42, those letter designations were manufacturer specific. Unless one mfg bought another; then things can get muddy... Sometimes they used both for the "new" company.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a picture of a variety of CI marked wrenches.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I had a good dialogue with Lauver on this subject on GG once upon a time, Don, gone in the crash now. Personally, I am not ruling out the possibility of Barcalo.

 

[406Rich]

Managed to pick up a 3/8 drive 10 inch BE extension today...

 

[d42jeep]

I had a good dialogue with Lauver on this subject on GG once upon a time, Don, gone in the crash now. Personally, I am not ruling out the possibility of Barcalo.

There is some resemblance, particularly to the earlier CI and Dunlap wrenches.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I found this Long C era Craftsman Circle-U partial set at the flea market this morning. I have posted additional photos in the Plomb thread, linked here.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Nice find Lugz. None of my Circle U rats of any drive size have the U marking on them either. I'm glad to hear your confirmation of the cadmium. I've never bought the satin chrome theory. It may vary by region but in my neck of the woods 1/2" drive is fairly common to find, 1/4" drive is scarce and 3/8 drive is harder find than an honest politician.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

None of my Circle U rats of any drive size have the U marking on them either.

That's good to know! I was wondering if it was common. I had emailed Todd and Unaiu earlier today and theirs are marked. I was going to start looking for examples, but you just saved me a lot of time. Thanks.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

That's good to know! I was wondering if it was common. I had emailed Todd and Unaiu earlier today and theirs are marked. I was going to start looking for examples, but you just saved me a lot of time. Thanks.

Hmm. Now I'm surprised to hear theirs are marked. I had assumed none of the U rats were marked. More post war confusion I suppose.

EDIT: I had to go take a look at mine. One of four of my U rats is marked, a 1/4" drive.

 

[RubiconJK]

My 1/2" drive ratchet is marked. You can see the mark in one of the pics in this link to a previous post on the Plomb thread.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7871966&postcount=6426

 

[twertsy]

I can only find one pic handy, which I believe is 1/2" drive. I'll check the rest later today. This one is marked on the handle just below the head.

 

[d42jeep]

Here are my spare Circle U sockets. The quality control was suspect on one of them.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The difference between the postwar and wartime finish is stark and palpable in that photo. I noticed the same thing when Unaiu posted his partial Circle-U set just a few posts underneath mine on the Plomb thread.

 

[Username already in use]

The 1-1/16 socket that Don posted looks straight up a rebadged WF socket. Very cool.

 

[LesserSon]

I saw a disappointing sight today, and was unable to take a picture (sorry), because the flea vendor is hostile/suspicious, and has a limited grasp of the English language. For one thing, he doesn’t know the word for any denomination less than a dollar.
The object was an otherwise beautiful underline Craftsman Vanadium pin punch that had been ground down and then reground (very sloppily) into a center punch. There was just enough left that I suppose it could be further reduced to a ***** punch, but I didn’t care a dollar to do it.

 

[Username already in use]

I picked up this hefty and very rusty 3/4" drive extension thinking it would turn out to be wartime SK. Post evaporust bath and it turns out its Craftsman BM. This is the first BM marked Craftsman piece I've found.

 

[paulm12]

miter saw in very good condition
.

 

[Outlawmws]

I picked up this hefty and very rusty 3/4" drive extension thinking it would turn out to be wartime SK. Post evaporust bath and it turns out its Craftsman BM. This is the first BM marked Craftsman piece I've found.

So its Long C AND SK! You were right!

 

[Smokeshow69]

So its Long C AND SK! You were right!

That is odd that sk first used the vendor code Bm and later circled k. I thought the vendor codes were kept consistent


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[d42jeep]

I guess it’s no more odd than BE and Circle H both being New Britain. I’ve never understood that.
-Don

 

[Gear Wolf]

The BM and Circle K had to do with the site the tools were made.

BM = Brazil Stamping Company
Circle K = Sherman-Klove

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The BM and Circle K had to do with the site the tools were made.

BM = Brazil Stamping Company
Circle K = Sherman-Klove

Hmm. Do you have any substantiation for that statement? A period document that articulates that? The factory designation would certainly help the theory that Circle-H is for Husky plant and BE is for New Britain proper. However, I believe it was Todd who showed that they moved the Husky operations to Connecticut.

The factory designation has a similar issue here. The Brazil Stamping Division facility in the Clearing district was shut down in 1938 and all its equipment and operations were moved to the expanded SK building on West 47th Street in 1939. Circle-U and BM production are both dated to 1939. So something is not right. Either BM production began earlier than 1939, or BM does not designate Brazil factory.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I've been amusing (and at times frustrating) myself by putting together catalog sets. I've found it a good way to clear out room in stacks and put empty carry boxes to work. I realize the boxes are Heritage badged but both of these sets are in the transition period when Long C tools were still being sold. This is a 49 pc set from 1948. Missing a couple of odds and ends but I'm getting there.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

And this is a 35 piece set from 1947. The 1/2" and 1/4" drive sets without any 3/8" drive stuff must have been a great seller for Sears as they ran this set up into the 1970s.

I'm currently working on the 100 pc set from 1939 in the 2 drawer Long C top chest. I seem to be stagnating at the last 16 pieces but....I'll get there.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That time period was hard to pin down, but on the upside there is no wrong answer. Sears did not seem to be overly concerned with uniformity.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The BM and Circle K had to do with the site the tools were made.

BM = Brazil Stamping Company
Circle K = Sherman-Klove[/QUOTE

That is interesting. It would explain why it is not a circle k .

 

[Private Lugnutz]

But Brazil was under the same roof with SK in 1939 when BM and Circle K production reportedly started. The only way it makes sense is if BM production was earlier than 1939. Still waiting to see where Gear Wolf got the info, or another explanation.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I see your dilema. Dates are close but I suspect the only other explanation would be craftsman changed the code stamp for sk.

 

[twertsy]

OR, they are not vendor codes.......which has been my theory all along. Not that I have a solid theory on what they actually represent, but that doesn't stop me from thinking it! For example, Husky was shut down and all equipment moved to NB in 1935. Circle H cannot indicate Husky plant. As Greg stated, BM cannot be Brazil either. It's my "belief" that the codes represent something else, like perhaps a specific contract. Codes representing a contract would explain why we've seen tools with the same code that look suspiciously like they were made by different companies. The companies could have teamed up under the same contract.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That might work, Roy. I haven't thought it through, but it's interesting and seems tighter than the factory/facility designation.

Not sure what you mean, Otg. BM and (K) production are both thought to have started at the same time, in 1939. At that time, the Brazil plant was kaput and all its equipment and operations had been moved to the expanded main plant. Even if BM production is earlier, why would it be needed in the 40s? To designate which particular forge and press were used?

But again, I don't know if Gear Wolf was merely repeating the old theory, unaware of the discovered dilemma (I posted the newspaper article announcing the 1939 consolidation in the SK thread a few months ago, but I don't know what AA or the commodity DVD says in the subject...), or if he knows of something that substantiates the conclusiveness of his reply.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

It's possible the contract has more to do with it than where it was made. Sk may have shut down the Brazil plant but still had some related contract with sears.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That's the interesting/ironic part. They may have consolidated because of or due to a Sears contract. The two events coincide.

 

[twertsy]

That might work, Roy. I haven't thought it through, but it's interesting and seems tighter than the factory/facility designation.

Not sure what you mean, Otg. BM and (K) production are both thought to have started at the same time, in 1939. At that time, the Brazil plant was kaput and all its equipment and operations had been moved to the expanded main plant. Even if BM production is earlier, why would it be needed in the 40s? To designate which particular forge and press were used?

But again, I don't know if Gear Wolf was merely repeating the old theory, unaware of the discovered dilemma (I posted the newspaper article announcing the 1939 consolidation in the SK thread a few months ago, but I don't know what AA or the commodity DVD says in the subject...), or if he knows of something that substantiates the conclusiveness of his reply.

Consolidation was finalized 1/1/1938. It was begun in August of 1937.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I notice the BM is marked craftsman. My circle k and sk 3/4 sets circa 1940 have unmarked extensions. We're they making 3/4 marked BM and Circle K at same time?

 

[twertsy]

I notice the BM is marked craftsman. My circle k and sk 3/4 sets circa 1940 have unmarked extensions. We're they making 3/4 marked BM and Circle K at same time?

Yes

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