Lets make an all vintage Snap-on tool picture thread!

[y'sguy]

True! they should go higher.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I picked up an 040 offset screwdriver and two wrenches yesterday.

The screwdriver is not branded or date coded, but I am pretty sure it's a Snap-on. The unique construction and the model number are telling. I have an 060 to go with it. See Pics 3 (with a Plomb) & 4.

The wrenches are not a pair. The electrical work wrench (J-2428) has a 1962 date code and the ignition wrench (C-1917) has a 1939 dated code. They are an interesting study in the evolution of the Blue-Point logo marking as well. See Pics 1 & 2.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Flea find from this morning. Early (1929, to be exact) Blue-Point Chicago 940 (1-1/4") water pump wrench. I think this is my third of these. This is how we do it. Come back and see me when I'm 80 and maybe I'll have the whole set. Or maybe not.

 

[snapmom]

I have never seen the full set. I think there is about 30 pieces

 

[r_olson_06]

Flea find from this morning. Early (1929, to be exact) Blue-Point Chicago 940 (1-1/4") water pump wrench. I think this is my third of these. This is how we do it. Come back and see me when I'm 80 and maybe I'll have the whole set. Or maybe not. [emoji38]

Those are neat wrenches. There is a vendor at a once/year flea that has some. I think he is asking $20per. If you want me to pick them up let me know.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for the offer, Roy, but my pockets aren't that deep!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Added Vaccum-Grip two-row No. 87 dykes to the collection from the flea market this morning. No date code.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Those are neat wrenches. There is a vendor at a once/year flea that has some. I think he is asking $20per. If you want me to pick them up let me know.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

I might be interested in a few. Lmk what sizes he has available.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I have 1"1 1/16,1 1/8, 1 3/16,1 1/4, 1 5/16, 1 1/2 and 1 5/8. Would be interested in adding some.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Hi,
Sort of off topic-?
I searched around but did not find any answers, although I can't believe there is no thread for this question.

I've been looking around for a set or two of Snap-on metric sockets that might match my general target of 1940s-1950s tools, etc.

I'm not against something newer as I feel the Flank Drive are probably better tools practically speaking.
I have found a few sets that seem to have patent numbers on them but no date codes. These were flank drive sockets though.

What is the window for these? 1960s through the 1980s? 70s - 80s?
If I find a set with patent numbers and dark bands is it possible they could be from anywhere within a 20 year gap? Or is there some way to narrow that down? What is the oldest flank drive metric sockets?

Thanks for any clues or help.

 

[d42jeep]

Hi,
Sort of off topic-?
I searched around but did not find any answers, although I can't believe there is no thread for this question.

I've been looking around for a set or two of Snap-on metric sockets that might match my general target of 1940s-1950s tools, etc.

I'm not against something newer as I feel the Flank Drive are probably better tools practically speaking.
I have found a few sets that seem to have patent numbers on them but no date codes. These were flank drive sockets though.

What is the window for these? 1960s through the 1980s? 70s - 80s?
If I find a set with patent numbers and dark bands is it possible they could be from anywhere within a 20 year gap? Or is there some way to narrow that down? What is the oldest flank drive metric sockets?

Thanks for any clues or help.

Here is a link to a 1962 catalog showing metric socket sets.
http://www.collectingsnapon.com/catalogs/catalogs.php?loggedin=0&catalogPage=1790
-Don

 

[snapmom]

The metric socks show up in the 38 cat.. ones from the 30s-50s are very hard to find. I think the black bands are like early 70s.
the pic on the left. 38-to about 49 (date code 49)
pic on the right 50-thru probably the 60s. not sure as to the 60s (date code 51)

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Those are a couple of rare sockets. I have some of the black ring metrics, no date codes on these.

 

[LesserSon]

Picked this No1 1/2dr offset today at the flea market. The vendor actually pointed it out to me as I was debating over a Bonney 825A wrench and a couple mismatched sockets. A lot of his mixed USA tools were stamped with a single “5” like they had been in a kit together. I haven’t noticed anything like a date code on this yet, but if it does have a “5” I won’t be fooled into assuming it’s a date, though it really could be from 1925. I see that it is missing the press-fit handle, but I don’t think it’s been cut short. I’ll have to keep an eye out for a loose handle, or else see about getting some lathe time.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Looks like the handle is gone. That style ran from 26 to 28, so the 5 is not likely a date code. Date codes started 27, so it is probably a 26.

 

[LesserSon]

I don’t think this has a 5 on it, and if it does, I know it’s not a date code.
But the illustration looks the same in the 1925 catalog as in the 1926, doesn’t it?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Sorry ls, 25 to 28.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here are a few, left to right, 22, 23 to 24,25 to 28, 29 up

 

[LesserSon]

Nice group. And I was happy with just one...broken, at that!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Thanks ls. I was fortunate to find them!

 

[ShadowBoxer]

The metric socks show up in the 38 cat.. ones from the 30s-50s are very hard to find. I think the black bands are like early 70s.
the pic on the left. 38-to about 49 (date code 49)
pic on the right 50-thru probably the 60s. not sure as to the 60s (date code 51)

Hi, Thanks for that.
That helps a lot. That also leads me to a lot more guesses...

From an earlier auction win I got a metric set that is dated to 1959-ish (btw, missing 13mm. Anyone got an extra 1958/9 13mm?).
Another SAE set was from 1948-ish but had a few missing sockets that were replaced with a Craftsman and this older 9/16 socket.

You say that one style is 38-49.
Here it starts to look like the step might be between 1947 and 1948.

I honestly never looked this close before because it's hard to read in real life and I was always a little disappointed in missing parts and replacements. I never saw the 1947 date code clearly until tonight taking a picture for you. So it never occurred to me that this might not be a replacement but simply a transitional set that illustrates the step between two different generations.
Am I reading this right?
Anyone got any examples of 1945 or 1946 date codes?

Following that, your 1950s socket matches my 1959/60 sockets. And maybe this was the basic style through to the late 60s or early 1970s (?) when the dark bands became the new version. But when did that start?
Then the style changed again in ... when, the late 70s or early 1980s?

Something like that?
When did Flank Drive start?

Very interesting. I am tempted to start a new thread so as not to derail this one but it seems like most everyone who could help with figuring this out is already subscribed to this thread!
And we are talking about vintage Snap-on tools after all.

Let me know what you think.

 

[r_olson_06]

Hi,
Sort of off topic-?
I searched around but did not find any answers, although I can't believe there is no thread for this question.

I've been looking around for a set or two of Snap-on metric sockets that might match my general target of 1940s-1950s tools, etc.

I'm not against something newer as I feel the Flank Drive are probably better tools practically speaking.
I have found a few sets that seem to have patent numbers on them but no date codes. These were flank drive sockets though.

What is the window for these? 1960s through the 1980s? 70s - 80s?
If I find a set with patent numbers and dark bands is it possible they could be from anywhere within a 20 year gap? Or is there some way to narrow that down? What is the oldest flank drive metric sockets?

Thanks for any clues or help.
[emoji481]

I could be way off but according to TESS snap on filed a trade mark of Flank drive in 1980 but it appears that the first use may have been much earlier that that back in 1967.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[Private Lugnutz]

You say that one style is 38-49.
Here it starts to look like the step might be between 1947 and 1948.

I honestly never looked this close before because it's hard to read in real life and I was always a little disappointed in missing parts and replacements. I never saw the 1947 date code clearly until tonight taking a picture for you. So it never occurred to me that this might not be a replacement but simply a transitional set that illustrates the step between two different generations.
Am I reading this right?
Anyone got any examples of 1945 or 1946 date codes?

Immediate pre-war and wartime Snap-on sockets look, generally speaking, like the metric socket snapmom posted (but not chromed, of course). There are slight variations that can be chalked up to slight variations in tooling/dies, but they all have that simple vertical spaced knurling. Sometimes the knurling is raised, sometimes it is recessed. Sometimes it is framed with two grooves, sometimes one groove, sometimes no groove. Sometimes it is shorter. Sometime the entire base is recessed, and sometimes it is flush with the body of the socket.

Here is a quick pic I jus took for you to review. Top row is all early stuff, just for context. Second row is all wartime. Left to right: 1941, 1942, 1944 ("E"), 1945 ("G"), and another 1945 ("G") swivel, respectively. (1943 "3" code tools are very rare; I have had less than five total, all drive tools.)

Regardless of the variations, the 39-47 socketry is unmistakable, and unmistakably distinct from early socketry, and later socketry.

I don't collect postwar Snap-on, so I've never paid too much attention to the next style. I have run into a lot of 1947 and 1948 socketry at flea markets, etc, and I consider it - more or less - the same style as the wartime socketry, with that band of vertical spaced vertical knurling around the base. So much so that I would be fooled by it without a date code.

That's not to dismiss your theory - and I can see what you mean when you say there is a difference between your 1947 socket and the 1939 socket snapmom posted, as well as the wartime sockets I posted. Personally, I put the differences between it and wartime socketry in the same category as the slight variations among sockets made in that entire timeframe, as shown by the sockets I assembled.

But I admire your interest and if you collect enough data to show a clear, consistent and unmistakable "step" (as you are calling it), I would be interested in seeing your findings.

 

[snapmom]

This only applies to SW and F series 12 points. 1930s and 40s
there are three designs. 1930-1935 single long knurling with no incised line above or below the knurling.
1936-45 small knurling with incised lines above and below knurling. 1944-49+. small knurling with incised line above knurling.
There is a overlap in 44-45. where you can find both types. In 1940, made in usa shows up (its odd, most other tools start in the late 30s with usa). Also in the middle of 47, the way they are made changes, you can find both in 47.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thankfully, with Snap-on, the variations become academic for the most part, because of the date codes. Not so with Walden, Bonney, and many other mfgrs, where the close study of construction differences is often vital for determining production date.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Thankfully, with Snap-on, the variations become academic for the most part, because of the date codes. Not so with Walden, Bonney, and many other mfgrs, where the close study of construction differences is often vital for determining production date.

Yes. That is sort of one of the points I was getting at.
I find some sockets (for example) where there are no date codes. Patent numbers, black bands, maybe a different font design, but no date code.

Do we at least know when that started and when that stopped?
Do we know when Flank Drive started? I get the feeling it started at a time when there were no codes. Maybe somewhere in the 1960s?

I was trying to sketch out a timeline above but I don’t know enough to really put dates down. I also think that there might not be definitive dates for certain things. I bet when they changed the style of sockets for example, that it took several years. SnapMom said she had an older styled socket with a code of 1949, while I have newer style sockets with 1948 codes.

I wonder if some of these tools are made months if not years in advance. When I bought a wrench set back in the 90s all of the wrenches were not dated the same. There always seem to be a few from the previous year. Like my socket sets above. Most of those are from 1948 and the metric is 1959, but a few in the sets are dated a year older or newer.
I can’t show you now, but later I can take a picture of a screw driver socket that has the numbers 5 and 4 on it. I think they are date code numbers. Why would they do that?

 

[snapmom]

The overlap may be caused by two different lines, one changed over, while running the other using the older machines. The Canada factory was using used machines from the US when the opened up
Double or triple date codes are common, no one has figured out why, but they were stamped by machine, at least on the first run

 

[snapmom]

"It's a real beauty a Mexican cutie, how it got here I haven't a clue"
A Snap on made in Mexico socket. 1/2 drive. model Z181. 9/16 opening also has 14.2mm stamped on it. 12 Points, no date code but a more modern logo, the Mexico rats are dated early 80s, so this should be about the same time.. Has a Pat. number 99134

 

[JackW]

I found an old 1/4 drive Snap-on ratchet with a G code on the handle in a bin in the tool crib at Lockheed. I gave it to my Snap-on representative to see if he could tell me how old it was and he said according to their records it dates to 1937. We guessed that it might have been shipped to Georgia from the Lockheed plant in Burbank when Lockheed reopened the old WWII era Bell Bomber Plant in 1951. It came home with the rest of the stuff in my desk when I retired a few years ago.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

1945

 

[JackW]

1945

If the ratchet dates from 1945 there is a good chance that it dates from the Bell Bomber plant days when they were assembling B-29's in Marietta. Thanks, my Snap-on rep wasn't real sure about the date code.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

G is generally considered the 1945 date code. Also that model ratchet did not exist in 1937.

 

[d42jeep]

It probably came in a 9/32” drive set like this. Unless somebody modified it, your ratchet is 9/32” drive, not 1/4” although they look similar.
-Don

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Oops.
I just bought one of those from the Classifieds.
It was advertised as a 1/4 drive with a "7" date code.

It looked like a 1947 date to me.
Should be here Thursday for me to try out.

 

[d42jeep]

The 1/4” drive sets look quite similar and if yours is actually dated ‘47 it is likely to be 1/4” drive. Here is my 1/4” drive set mostly dated 1944 except for the ‘45 flex handle. I’ve been looking to trade it out for a ‘44 flex handle if anybody runs across one.
-Don

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Here are some pictures of that double-date code I mentioned earlier.

It came with a few other odd-ball-orphans.
An 8mm hex driver socket is the double-dated one on the left. The center is a short, stubby Phillips screw driver and of course the straight bit on the right.

I needed an 8mm hex for the motorcycle and the Philips helped me repair the old side gate.
So far so good.

The flat is definitely "anti-Guar", and I guess from 1955? What does "Guar" mean, guarantee? I was not sure about the bottom center.

I thought it was a 1/4 adaptor but it's not. It accepts a 3/8s driver but the male is too big for a 1/4.

Now it looks like I'll have two 9/32 that I can't use?
I don't suppose they made any 9/32 sockets for metric, did they?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I have what I consider a strong explanation for the preponderance of double and triple date codes in the late 1920's and early 1930's: the Great Depression. As unsold stock was carried over from year to year, they had to date code stamp it again, and again, if necessary, because of the 1-year guarantee they were offering at that time. And it is an explanation that has some complementary backing from the 50th anniversary stakeholder pamphlet, "The Snap-on Story," which talks about how they almost went under at that time. I have posted that before here several times.

That wouldn't explain a double 1954 and 1955 stamp, however. With a lifetime guarantee on most items, it wouldn't matter when it was produced. If you bought a piece in 1955 that was actually made and stamped in 1954, machts nichts.

EDIT: Your socket was not guaranteed anyway. No screwdriver bits were. I suppose it's possible it was unsold NOS from 1954 carried over and sold with 1955 production.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Oh I see. Thanks D42Jeep.
I did not realize that was another post from your previous.
They made both 9/32 and 1/4 at the same time? It could be either?
What is flexible there in your set, the breaker bar?

I just realized it's Thursday now.
So I'll find out if it shows up. Today or tomorrow probably.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I have what I consider a strong explanation for the preponderance of double and triple date codes in the late 1920's and early 1930's: the Great Depression. As unsold stock was carried over from year to year, they had to date code stamp it again, and again, if necessary, because of the 1-year guarantee they were offering at that time. And it is an explanation that has some complementary backing from the 50th anniversary stakeholder pamphlet, "The Snap-on Story," which talks about how they almost went under at that time.

That wouldn't explain a double 1954 and 1955 stamp, however. With a lifetime guarantee on most items, it wouldn't matter when it was produced. If you bought a piece in 1955 that was actually made and stamped in 1954, machts nichts.

Something like that sounds reasonable to me.
I thought it was funny how the date code on that 8mm hex is still the original date. I guess they did not want to make it look like it was "1945".

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Now that I see how close in time the three are, is it possible they came from a set? Not really orphans after all?

The hex driver does not have a set screw holding it in. It has what looks like a brass pin.
I guess someone got tired of it falling out.
WHAM, WHAM, WHAM ... that ought to do it!