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Leaf blower ordinances and Gas-Powered Leaf Blowers Bans

gatewaysysop

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It's not really the pollution - it's the damn noise!

I know they banned them in Beverly Hills decades ago, all the Vietnamese landscapers went back to rakes and brooms.

2 of my neighbors have those things and they use them for hours at a time - drives me nuts after a while.

This. I work in my home office, and I have two OCD neighbors that will run backpack gas leaf blowers for HOURS. I have shooting-range muffs next to my computer that I wear, lol.

They are stupid loud. Last week they were doing the sidewalks in front of the house, I was in my garage with over the ear hearing protection and they were still too damn loud.

^^ Yup ^^

In the summer, a lot of gardeners like to start early to avoid the heat....nothing like having a late night and a loud leaf blower is running next door.

I have a cordless one....about 1/5th the noise of my corded one....and about half the performance....but for me, it works just fine....

I watched flabbergasted as a "professional" used a blower to clean leaves from a lawn across the street from my son's house. It took almost two hours including the final pick up and loading. It could have been done in 30 minutes using a garden tractor and leaf bag. That kind of thing brings on ordinances that affect us all.

:+1:

My neighbors all have tiny front yards, barely more than an easement. What would take not even a single pass on a riding mower or 10 minutes with a rake, these idiots spend HOURS running a damn gas powered blower. I've even seen some of them out there on a windy day, fighting with the weather and taking even longer to get the job done. :confused:

One of my neighbors even has a landscaper that uses a leaf blower in their back yard, of which 75% is taken up by the pool. I bet their pool guy loves having to deal with the aftermath as much as I like the 2+ hours the guy spends making the mess. :wtf:

On a related note, I've also noticed that half the time I'm at Home Depot or Lowe's, some idiot has to run the gas-powered leaf blower to clean up the garden center during business hours. The employees are always wearing ear muffs, because they don't want to suffer with the noise, but they seem to have no problem subjecting the customer base to it. :mad:
 
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rlitman

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...On a related note, I've also noticed that half the time I'm at Home Depot or Lowe's, some idiot has to run the gas-powered leaf blower to clean up the garden center during business hours. The employees are always wearing ear muffs, because they don't want to suffer with the noise, but they seem to have no problem subjecting the customer base to it. :mad:

That much makes sense from an OSHA perspective. The customer can walk away. The employee cannot escape the noise.
 

four.cycle

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Private Lugnutz said:
And I resent people who attempt to cling to an erroneous, misguided idea of personal liberty. We are all free to do whatever we want - as long as it doesn't harm others. Some things are not a matter of opinion and personal preference. Thankfully, emissions is one of them.

I don't resent them.
I just laugh at them and ignore them.
 

gatewaysysop

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That much makes sense from an OSHA perspective. The customer can walk away. The employee cannot escape the noise.

I'm all for them protecting their employees' ears. What surprises me is that they're fine with forcing customers to choose between abusing their ears or shopping elsewhere. Lots of better times/ways they could be doing this that wouldn't drive customers away. :headscrat
 

rlitman

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I'm all for them protecting their employees' ears. What surprises me is that they're fine with forcing customers to choose between abusing their ears or shopping elsewhere. Lots of better times/ways they could be doing this that wouldn't drive customers away. :headscrat

I'd call it a poor management decision. Like a restaurant vacuuming while customers are in. But it's not necessarily unsafe.

But an HD is an active warehouse with fork lifts driving around regularly too. They're weird that way, and well, that sort of policy seems to work for them, so who am I to say it's wrong.
 

Parrothead

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DeWalt makes a battery leaf blower too, but none of these keep up to gas

What is burned to make that states power? Coal or NG of course. What a bunch of fools

Yes, DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee and even Hart from Walmart makes a cordless leaf blower. There are levels to everything.

I’d ask you to define “keep up”. Be able to run all day on one battery? No, absolutely not. Be able to clear most residential lawns on a battery or two? Yep.

I have a homeowner grade Black and Decker corded leaf blower/vacuum and it clears my very tree heavy lot with no issues. Rated at 250mph and it’s great. I have 9 trees on less than 1/4 acre and the smallest one is 45ft tall. My neighbors 56v Ego tears right through it even easier.

Years ago we used to burn leaves, yet somehow that practice has been abandoned for many good reasons. However, don’t get me started on the odd things California does and the ban of natural gas in some cities there.
 

crazyj7012

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That's sounds awful. Really glad I'm not stuck in California. Only visited for a couple days and was enough for me.
 

Y00PER

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I don't understand why you guys make those huge piles of leaves every year, I have a 100 ft tall pin oak in my front yard that puts down about a 2 ft thick layer of leaves every fall....I just mulch them. It takes little time and it's eco friendly....give back to the earth and all that?

I mean, why the heck are you sending leaves to the land fill?

Me either. A leaf blower seems like a waste of money to me. I just run them over with thee ol' '73 Wheelhorse, which doesn't have a mulching blade. By the time the lawn greens up in the spring after the snow melts, they're all gone.
 

kctyphoon

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Says the guy who's pissed a place 2000 miles away banned something on their own volition and which will have zero impact on his life. Sorry you can't buy a 2-stroke leaf blower anymore... oh wait, you STILL CAN..

Some of us give a **** about what happens in the rest of country. Stupidity seems to be contagious. One day they might be try to make large sodas illegal.. oh wait - yea that happened too.. weather its leaf blowers or gun rights, i dont want the gov telling people “you cant have that, just cause WE SAID SO”


As far as the - “why dont you just mulch them” - cause some people have more trees than others.. some people dont have the luxury of being able to clean leaves every week - and you cannot just mulch a TON of leaves into a lawn at one shot, and expect it to look nice, and continue to do that IF your property is heavily covered in trees... in fact - many properties heavily covered in trees, dont have much of lawn to HIDE mulched up leaves in. They would essentially be creating a compost pile in front of their homes.

And lastly - imma go out on a limb and say that that person who is so “annoyed” at the sound of a leaf blower - wont be thrilled at the sound of lawns mowers either.
 
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M6erfan

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Some of us give a **** about what happens in the rest of country. Stupidity seems to be contagious. One day they might be try to make large sodas illegal.. oh wait - yea that happened too.. weather its leaf blowers or gun rights, i dont want the gov telling people “you cant have that, just cause WE SAID SO”


As far as the - “why dont you just mulch them” - cause some people have more trees than others.. some people dont have the luxury of being able to clean leaves every week - and you cannot just mulch a TON of leaves into a lawn at one shot, and expect it to look nice, and continue to do that IF your property is heavily covered in trees... in fact - many properties heavily covered in trees, dont have much of lawn to HIDE mulched up leaves in. They would essentially be creating a compost pile in front of their homes.

And lastly - imma go out on a limb and say that that person who is so “annoyed” at the sound of a leaf blower - wont be thrilled at the sound of lawns mowers either.

Don't give them any ideas, soon lawns will be banned...
 

PugetDude

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Some of us give a **** about what happens in the rest of country. Stupidity seems to be contagious. One day they might be try to make large sodas illegal.. oh wait - yea that happened too.. weather its leaf blowers or gun rights, i dont want the gov telling people “you cant have that, just cause WE SAID SO”


As far as the - “why dont you just mulch them” - cause some people have more trees than others.. some people dont have the luxury of being able to clean leaves every week - and you cannot just mulch a TON of leaves into a lawn at one shot, and expect it to look nice, and continue to do that IF your property is heavily covered in trees... in fact - many properties heavily covered in trees, dont have much of lawn to HIDE mulched up leaves in. They would essentially be creating a compost pile in front of their homes.

And lastly - imma go out on a limb and say that that person who is so “annoyed” at the sound of a leaf blower - wont be thrilled at the sound of lawns mowers either.

Absolutely! When it comes to policies like these it’s death by a thousand cuts...
The Nanny State can’t leave well enough alone, and they won’t hesitate to twist the facts to promote their end of the world issue-of-the-month; richocheting from one social media inspired program to another- a disproportionate number of which are incubated in California.

They can’t even maintain the human waste on their streets and sidewalks (Maybe it’s now classified as a compost pile :lol_hitti ) but they are somehow qualified to tell you how to maintain your yard. :headscrat

According on Prop 65, everything in California causes cancer; might as well add leaf blowers , lawn mowers and weed whackers to the list.
 

Farmall450

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Yes, DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee and even Hart from Walmart makes a cordless leaf blower. There are levels to everything.

I’d ask you to define “keep up”. Be able to run all day on one battery? No, absolutely not. Be able to clear most residential lawns on a battery or two? Yep.

I have a homeowner grade Black and Decker corded leaf blower/vacuum and it clears my very tree heavy lot with no issues. Rated at 250mph and it’s great. I have 9 trees on less than 1/4 acre and the smallest one is 45ft tall. My neighbors 56v Ego tears right through it even easier.

Years ago we used to burn leaves, yet somehow that practice has been abandoned for many good reasons. However, don’t get me started on the odd things California does and the ban of natural gas in some cities there.

I was specifically referencing backpack leaf blowers (battery powered) as was the post I quoted. Dragging a cord is not something I, nor many others, is gonna do. And by keep up, I would mean perform equally as well.
 

jonshonda

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I don't have a huge lot, but I make no less then 3 trips a year w/ my 5x8 trailer filled as high as I can to the brush disposal site. Back when I had my smaller bagger system on my rider (2 bags hung off the back) I usually emptied them 20 or more times each mow during the fall/spring clean up.

I had a handheld Stihl leaf blower and switched to a backpack to cut down on time and be more productive. You could say it's overkill, but I get a lot of landscaping on multiple levels, and a lot of dry stacked field stone retaining walls that need to be cleaned out often. I also have a gas push mower,big gas string trimmer, and a gas power washer. I also want a gas rototiller and bigger garden tractor with a FEL.

Don't get me wrong our family practices the 3 R's every day and we never intentionally pollute, but at this point battery power just doesn't cut it. When you need to run something for hours at a time and need power, gas just is a better or the only option.
 

kctyphoon

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This is what i hear -
A person or people CARE enough to maintain, or make an attempt to maintain the property right NEXT to yours, or even YOUR OWN property (condo tenants/ those hiring landscapers) and another person complains “I’m inconvenienced, why should i have to HEAR a noise outside when I’m inside”... like, dude.. grow up.. you CHOOSE to NOT live in a secluded cabin in the woods.

And if its YOUR landscaper thats bothering you, - then get up of your *** and do it yourself. My guess is the guy that didnt wanna do it in the first place, will buy a ****** leaf blower over a rake.
 

rlitman

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This is what i hear -
A person or people CARE enough to maintain, or make an attempt to maintain the property right NEXT to yours, or even YOUR OWN property (condo tenants/ those hiring landscapers) and another person complains “I’m inconvenienced, why should i have to HEAR a noise outside when I’m inside”... like, dude.. grow up.. you CHOOSE to NOT live in a secluded cabin in the woods.

And if its YOUR landscaper thats bothering you, - then get up of your *** and do it yourself. My guess is the guy that didnt wanna do it in the first place, will buy a ****** leaf blower over a rake.


If it were just a few minutes to **** it up, I’d totally agree. But many of us have multiple neighbors, and many neighbors do their leaf blowing over and over week after week. Then you’ve got that guy who mows at 6am and blows off the clippings into the street.

In some neighborhoods, the cacophony can be unsettling. I can’t say that it bothers me, but not everyone is me.

As I said above, I don’t mind too much the noise from my neighbors. Probably because my neighbors are respectful and not total jerks. And for my part, I try not to contribute to the problem by using a quieter backpack blower. Being quiet, I use it as often as I like. And when I’m rotating tires in my driveway at midnight (yeah, I’m that guy) I’m glad I have my IR 2235QTiMax.

At least, nobody has complained to me. Then again, my neighbors are used to me gardening by flashlight, and rolling around a wheelbarrow of lime at 1am with a shovel. Hummmmm.
 
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PugetDude

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And if its YOUR landscaper thats bothering you, - then get up of your *** and do it yourself. My guess is the guy that didnt wanna do it in the first place, will buy a ****** leaf blower over a rake.

Consider this a formal invitation for the anti-blower crowd to come over to my place and try to rake yard clippings out of a 3/4 acre desert landscape. You can't get anywhere near a lot of the yuccas, cactus, or cholla without getting pierced. You'd be begging for a blower after about ten minutes. (yeah, I know how that sounds...:lol_hitti)
It's disingenuous for someone in Beverly Hills or Cherry Hill to insist that I don't need a blower to maintain my yard because their landscape lends itself to raking. You do your thing, let me do mine. I don't need to hear how my landscaper running a backpack blower for 15 minutes a month puts out more pollution than three Chinese provinces.
 

Farmall450

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This is what i hear -
A person or people CARE enough to maintain, or make an attempt to maintain the property right NEXT to yours, or even YOUR OWN property (condo tenants/ those hiring landscapers) and another person complains “I’m inconvenienced, why should i have to HEAR a noise outside when I’m inside”... like, dude.. grow up.. you CHOOSE to NOT live in a secluded cabin in the woods.

And if its YOUR landscaper thats bothering you, - then get up of your *** and do it yourself. My guess is the guy that didnt wanna do it in the first place, will buy a ****** leaf blower over a rake.

Never thought I'd quote and agree with TWO kctyphoon posts in one thread :headscrat
 
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kctyphoon

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LA was spending $40,000 a mile to PAINT THE STREETS WHITE to COMBAT GLOBAL WARMING... but yea - my ****** leaf blower is the pollution “problem”. Question - if they were trying to PURPOSELY make things worse every year, - what would they be doing differently?

10129258-1-BB2-42-EC-A0-A3-DF9002487-BA3.jpg

37453859-2-CFD-4734-8179-EEF38890733-B.jpg
 
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kctyphoon

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Umm, no.



And herein lies the problem...

Umm. Yes... which is why Glacier National Park just took its signs down stating “the Glaciers you see before you will be gone by 2020” - cause ya know - its a problem when there are giant glaciers behind the signs..

Just to state another fact - the original climate ‘crissis’ being sold - was that an ice age was imminent- due to all the dust from fossil fuels blocking out the sun.. science proved that model too..
 
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PugetDude

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And "battery" (i.e. fossil fuel generated electricity stored in a tough to dispose package) powered blowers are the solution?

Farmall, everyone knows batteries are good for the environment.
Just like the strip mines that fuel the power plants, the open-pit mines that supply the copper, the fracking to produce the oil used in the plastic casings, and the child slave labor working the toxic rare-earth open mining operations in third-world countries, batteries are just like the organic cucumbers at Trader Joes- shiny, green and good for you!

Disposal of the batteries is also good for the US economy since we can export them back to those third-world countries, helping to ease our balance of trade!

It's a win-win all around!
 
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coldh2o

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And "battery" (i.e. fossil fuel generated electricity stored in a tough to dispose package) powered blowers are the solution?

Arguing electrical power is not the solution because it's generated by fossil fuels misses the point. Electrical generation needs to move to sustainable, renewable resources.
 

coldh2o

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Umm. Yes... which is why Glacier National Park just took its signs down stating “the Glaciers you see before you will be gone by 2020” - cause ya know - its a problem when there are giant glaciers behind the signs..

Just to state another fact - the original climate ‘crissis’ being sold - was that an ice age was imminent- due to all the dust from fossil fuels blocking out the sun.. science proved that model too..

Scientific models are always evolving. Can't argue the park should have known that and not put a firm date on it, but the data stands - the glaciers are disappearing. From the USGS:

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF GLACIERS AT GLACIER NATIONAL PARK?

In 2017, the USGS published a time series analysis of the glacier margins of the named glaciers of Glacier National Park . The areas measured are from 1966, 1998, 2005 and 2015/2016, marking approximately 50 years of change in glacier area. Scientists used aerial photography and satellite imagery to measure the perimeters of the glaciers in late summer when seasonal snow had melted to reveal the extent of the glacial ice. The data table shows that all glaciers have been reduced in area since 1966 with some glaciers having been reduced by as much as 85% by 2015. The average area reduction over the approximately 50-year period is 39%. Currently, only 26 glaciers are larger than 0.1 square kilometers (25 acres) which is used as a guideline for deciding if bodies of ice are large enough to be considered glaciers.


I'm sorry I got drawn into going off-topic on this thread. I'm out.
 

kctyphoon

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Arguing electrical power is not the solution because it's generated by fossil fuels misses the point. Electrical generation needs to move to sustainable, renewable resources.

Which one can be constantly controlled, predicted and metered to meet demand beside hydro?????


There is literally only ONE constant in the field on science. Everything is always changing, cause you never knew as much as you thought you did.
 
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American Locomotive

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Don't give them any ideas, soon lawns will be banned...
I hope so. Lawns are an environmental nightmare. They're also stupid - just a monumental waste of time, money and water. I'd rather just have my property be entirely unkempt forest floor - packed down leaves and pine needles. I'd do it, but my town won't let me. Maybe I can replace all the grass with crushed gravel?

LA was spending $40,000 a mile to PAINT THE STREETS WHITE to COMBAT GLOBAL WARMING... but yea - my ****** leaf blower is the pollution “problem”. Question - if they were trying to PURPOSELY make things worse every year, - what would they be doing differently?
to combat the effects of global warming. Cities can get extremely hot in the summer due do dark pavement and buildings absorbing much more sun than natural tree or ground cover does.
Umm. Yes... which is why Glacier National Park just took its signs down stating “the Glaciers you see before you will be gone by 2020” - cause ya know - its a problem when there are giant glaciers behind the signs..
The original estimates were off, but the glaciers have shrunk considerably.
Just to state another fact - the original climate ‘crissis’ being sold - was that an ice age was imminent- due to all the dust from fossil fuels blocking out the sun.. science proved that model too..
That was essentially a media fabrication. The scientific consensus back then was we would have warming temperatures due to CO2. A very small amount of papers (7 total) predicted global cooling, and were really quickly debunked but the media latched on to them.
and the child slave labor working the toxic rare-earth open mining operations in third-world countries, batteries are just like the organic cucumbers at Trader Joes- shiny, green and good for you!
I suggest you look up what a lithium extraction site looks like.
 
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PugetDude

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Arguing electrical power is not the solution because it's generated by fossil fuels misses the point. Electrical generation needs to move to sustainable, renewable resources.

Arguing that we need to mandate an urgent, immediate multi-trillion dollar knee-jerk response to a politically motivated and manufactured "crisis" also misses the point.

Fossil fuels provide 63.6% of US electrical generating capacity. Nuclear is second at 19.4%. Hydropower is next at 7%, ahead of wind at 6.5%, Burning biomass fuels and landfill methane is tied with solar at ~1.5%. 1

Changing over to "sustainable, renewable resources" is a lofty goal. Pursue it all you want- eat vegan, drive an electric car, cover your house with ****-ugly solar panels, compost your excreta, whatever.

Just don't legislate that I must do the same to validate your choices; I'm capable of making them myself.

1 Source: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
 

2ndGearRubber

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Umm, no.



And herein lies the problem...

Um yes. No one can calculate which side of Florida a hurricane is going to hit 10 days in advance. Scientists are incapable of doing this. The maps they draw are huge in their error percentage, claiming landfall will be somewhere between Florida and North Carolina.


It is at best disingenuous to believe estimates of current CO2 levels, measured at various points, can accurate predict average global temperatures 100 years from now. Most of the media fan-fare also ignore global CO2 levels have been much higher and lower than they currently are.



The only consistent, factual information, is that human activity has increased CO2 levels.

Higher average temperatures can cause strife in human activity. Lower average temperatures can also cause strive in human activity. In fact, no changes whatsoever in temperature will continue to cause famine, drought, and a struggle for natural resources. I'm all for reducing CO2 output, have zero issue with doing so. I'd also like to focus on plastic pollution; which I find personally disgusting.

What I do have an issue with, is being treated like the problem when China and India exist. You think our output is bad? Wait until Africa comes online with factory production and personal transport. They'll make the Chinese look like Californians. I have an issue with unrealistic EPA restrictions being built to favor trucks and "suvs", which are now wagons with 3 inches of added ride height. PT Cruiser and HHR where both "light trucks" according to the EPA. All the while international shipping vessels run essentially zero pollution controls. Or being told to recycle, when large amounts of consumer recycling is simply scrapped or shipped overseas, as it's too mixed and contaminated to actually reuse.



I'm all for a clean planet. There's lots of easy solutions, and lots of hard ones too. There's also zero ability to fix the CO2 problem, as there's no way to avoid fossil fuels. I hear lots about taxes, and making my life more inconvenient. Yet no mention of breeder reactors or moving away from fossil fuels.
 

2ndGearRubber

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Arguing electrical power is not the solution because it's generated by fossil fuels misses the point. Electrical generation needs to move to sustainable, renewable resources.

Anyone who understands renewable, understands they're a joke. They simply cannot produce anywhere near the electrical requirements. To top it off, the efficiency *****.


Nuclear is the only remotely "renewable" option, IF one can run reactors on waste product. That said, there's plenty of fresh radioactive material to keep us running. But every 30 years there's a minor issue, and it sets the discussion back 30 years. Imagine if all the OMG CARBON money got put into a modern Manhattan project, first for reactors which can consume/hold waste, then for fusion. Even if we failed completely, at least we'd have done something.
 

James-W

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Not sure about you, but they dont send the leaves to the landfill here. They bring them to the town public dump and turn them into mulch which they give to you for free or they use around town.
That's what they do here too. We put the leaves on the curb and the city workmen come by with their giant sucker machine which ***** them up and mulches them before blowing them into their truck. Anyone who wants the mulch can pick it up at the city maintenance shop for free. They have a big pile of it, you take what you need.

If we trim a tree or cut some brush on our property, we can set it out to the curb and call the city maintenance garage to give them your address and they will come out and chop up the wood for you with their huge chipper machine at no cost. Then anyone who wants wood chips for a project they are doing can have them for free.

I keep saying this is all free, but that isn't exactly true, we pay property taxes and the cost of doing all this comes from the city budget which is paid by the property owners. So in reality we are paying for it thru our property taxes, but there is no additional charge for having it done.
 

Farmall450

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Anyone who understands renewable, understands they're a joke. They simply cannot produce anywhere near the electrical requirements. To top it off, the efficiency *****.


Nuclear is the only remotely "renewable" option, IF one can run reactors on waste product. That said, there's plenty of fresh radioactive material to keep us running. But every 30 years there's a minor issue, and it sets the discussion back 30 years. Imagine if all the OMG CARBON money got put into a modern Manhattan project, first for reactors which can consume/hold waste, then for fusion. Even if we failed completely, at least we'd have done something.

Sometimes the most apparent answer is the best one. :beer:

We're working on fusion, but that's still preceded in a sentence by "nuclear"
 

kctyphoon

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I hope so. Lawns are an environmental nightmare. They're also stupid - just a monumental waste of time, money and water. I'd rather just have my property be entirely unkempt forest floor - packed down leaves and pine needles. I'd do it, but my town won't let me. Maybe I can replace all the grass with crushed gravel?


to combat the effects of global warming. Cities can get extremely hot in the summer due do dark pavement and buildings absorbing much more sun than natural tree or ground cover does.

The original estimates were off, but the glaciers have shrunk considerably.

That was essentially a media fabrication. The scientific consensus back then was we would have warming temperatures due to CO2. A very small amount of papers (7 total) predicted global cooling, and were really quickly debunked but the media latched on to them.

I suggest you look up what a lithium extraction site looks like.

they go beyond claiming to combat “the effects”.. cooler streets > cooler buildings > less energy used to cool > less pollution > less climate change... oh - and its suppose to cut down on “deaths” due to heat.. yup.. they said that..

If you elaborate on their claims - one could make a connection that paving our cities has lead to climate change. Maybe thats the greater cause after all, and not cow farts.. their $40,000 a mile expense is sold as returning “priceless” benefits.. yet 2 streets over there may be a few hundred people living in tents passing their free gov needles around.

The point was - nobody ‘KNOWS’. Nobody fully understands. Its a living planet which has undergone constant change, and to claim that glancing at a millisecond of data in the lifetime of a planet, validates using scare tactics to advance their agenda or personal belief is irresponsible. Especially when their ‘science’ behind it cannot answer the most basic of questions. They are not even sure how many planets are in our own solar system anymore. Not to mention the THOUSANDS of other that have been found outside of it - when ‘science’ knew there was only 9 when i was in school.

While one side is yelling that CO2 is killing the planet, another is pointing out that Plants breath in CO2, and the climate getting SLIGHTLY warmer has resulted in a greater overall mass of plant life around the globe - living off the CO2 and producing more oxygen. Yes sea levels have risen, they have been rising for thousands of years. Has the rate increased? Yes. Thats usually how ice melts in water.. The idea that one day an instant flood will suddenly wipe out most of humanity instead of a slow rise resulting in people just figuring out they can just walk uphill i guess is the new debate. The thought that children are being TAUGHT or told, that the slightest increase in temp means they wont be able to survive on earth - and the answer to that is banning leaf blowers...... [rolls eyes].. I’m not a fan of extremism. Lets leave it at that. I dont subscribe to the equivalency of leaf blowers = asteroid strikes. But i will make this claim - if people have neighbors that have trees - expect to hear a leaf blower. If they cant handle that - go live on a glacier, or ya know - close the window..
 
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American Locomotive

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Um yes. No one can calculate which side of Florida a hurricane is going to hit 10 days in advance. Scientists are incapable of doing this. The maps they draw are huge in their error percentage, claiming landfall will be somewhere between Florida and North Carolina.
I cannot tell you with 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow. But I can tell you that based on thousands of years of daily observations, it is very probable that the sun will indeed rise tomorrow.

Weather is unpredictable - climate can be modeled based 100+ years of direct quantifiable observations, and thousands of years of indirect observations.
Most of the media fan-fare also ignore global CO2 levels have been much higher and lower than they currently are.
Do you really, truly think that scientists are so naive, that they don't consider that in their publications? The Earth was also a very different place during those periods, with terrain, animals and plants completely unrecognizable to what we have today. It would not be an environment that could sustain humans.
What I do have an issue with, is being treated like the problem when China and India exist.
Hey, my neighbor beats his wife, I guess I should too? The U.S. still represents 16% of Global CO2 emissions - a huge amount.

they go beyond claiming to combat “the effects”.. cooler streets > cooler buildings > less energy used to cool > less pollution > less climate change... oh - and its suppose to cut down on “deaths” due to heat.. yup.. they said that..
That is literally 100% true though? Cities on average are significantly hotter than the surrounding suburban/country side/forested land. This is a fact - regardless of your beliefs in climate change. 600+ people die in this country each year due to heat-related events. If painting the road white means 2-3 degree reduction in ambient air temperature, it could save lives and reduce air conditioning costs. You say it like it's some ridiculous notion, but it's actually very logical. It's the same reason why many buildings in CA have white roofs.
Especially when their ‘science’ behind it cannot answer the most basic of questions.
The science can answer "the most basic of questions" - Source: literally have a degree in this stuff.
They are not even sure how many planets are in our own solar system anymore. Not to mention the THOUSANDS of other that have been found outside of it - when ‘science’ knew there was only 9 when i was in school.
Science has predicted the existence of exoplanets for hundreds of years, with the first possible observations of them occurring in 1917. We know how many planets are in our Solar System, the only thing that has changed is the definition of what defines a planet.
Yes sea levels have risen, they have been rising for thousands of years. Has the rate increased? Yes. Thats usually how ice melts in water.. The idea that one day an instant flood will suddenly wipe out most of humanity instead of a slow rise resulting in people just figuring out they can just walk uphill i guess is the new debate.
Literally no scientist or science publication is saying that, or has ever said that. Most major cities are located directly on waterways or bays connected to the ocean. Lower Manhattan is just 7 feet above current sea level. NYC already gets wrecked as it is when a hurricane or big storm comes up the coast. By 2100, it's estimated that the sea level will be ~4 feet higher than it is now. At only 3 feet above sea level, even just bad thunderstorms will likely cause flooding, and hurricanes would decimate the city. There are also thousands of island and beach communities that would literally have to be abandoned.

It's a little difficult to just shove the entirety of NYC "up the hill" in just 80 years.
 
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M635_Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
4,336
Location
NC
they go beyond claiming to combat “the effects”.. cooler streets > cooler buildings > less energy used to cool > less pollution > less climate change... oh - and its suppose to cut down on “deaths” due to heat.. yup.. they said that..

If you elaborate on their claims - one could make a connection that paving our cities has lead to climate change. Maybe thats the greater cause after all, and not cow farts.. their $40,000 a mile expense is sold as returning “priceless” benefits.. yet 2 streets over there may be a few hundred people living in tents passing their free gov needles around.

The point was - nobody ‘KNOWS’. Nobody fully understands. Its a living planet which has undergone constant change, and to claim that glancing at a millisecond of data in the lifetime of a planet, validates using scare tactics to advance their agenda or personal belief is irresponsible. Especially when their ‘science’ behind it cannot answer the most basic of questions. They are not even sure how many planets are in our own solar system anymore. Not to mention the THOUSANDS of other that have been found outside of it - when ‘science’ knew there was only 9 when i was in school.

While one side is yelling that CO2 is killing the planet, another is pointing out that Plants breath in CO2, and the climate getting SLIGHTLY warmer has resulted in a greater overall mass of plant life around the globe - living off the CO2 and producing more oxygen. Yes sea levels have risen, they have been rising for thousands of years. Has the rate increased? Yes. Thats usually how ice melts in water.. The idea that one day an instant flood will suddenly wipe out most of humanity instead of a slow rise resulting in people just figuring out they can just walk uphill i guess is the new debate. The thought that children are being TAUGHT or told, that the slightest increase in temp means they wont be able to survive on earth - and the answer to that is banning leaf blowers...... [rolls eyes].. I’m not a fan of extremism. Lets leave it at that. I dont subscribe to the equivalency of leaf blowers = asteroid strikes. But i will make this claim - if people have neighbors that have trees - expect to hear a leaf blower. If they cant handle that - go live on a glacier, or ya know - close the window..

Dude - you're mixing a lot of partial facts with non-facts, emotion and preference. There aren't sides. There's the scientific community and the rest of us. The scientific community is overwhelmingly united in agreement on this topic. Yes, there are naysayers who are accredited scientists, but I haven't seen or heard any widely peer-reviewed scientific argument that contravenes the warnings we get. Mainly it's scientists who have decided to enter the political side of the discussion, which isn't the same thing as doubt.

Let's take the simplest part: The ice isn't melting in the water - the vast majority of the ice we're talking about is on land. It's melting into the oceans with two effects: the first is adding to the volume of water, making the sea-levels rise. Since most of the population centers are on or very close to the water, that's going to be a problem. Ask folks who live in Miami, New Orleans, Florence Italy how things are with the water these days - and that's before the levels have achieved critical levels. And that's just the simple part of what's happening there. The other effect is that the melted ice covers a bunch of dead grass and other organic material that will now rot and release a massive amount of CO2 into the atmosphere. It's not entirely possible to predict how bad the effects of that will be, but it's unbalancing to the environment and bad, at least if you care about what happens when things like more frequent and powerful hurricanes hit the East Coast (where I live), the effects of too much rain in some places and far too little in others, etc. The unbalancing will accelerate the downstream effects (strictly-speaking, that acceleration is already happening - it's measurable).

None of the above is opinion. It's science that has been vetted from every direction possible. Politicians and people to find the science inconvenient have muddled the discussion and added emotion to it, but what they're doing is saying 2+2≠4 in the face of mathematicians who have proven it. They think they can do that because there's uncertainty in predicting exactly how these changes are going to occur and how quickly, but that's just a complicated model, not uncertainty of the underlying scientific truth. While it's hideously complicated to explain the parts of this that are 100% proven fact and multitudes more complicated to figure out the full answer of what's on the other side of the equal sign (much less explain it to the rest of humanity), the facts above are no different than 2+2=4.

The US isn't the single biggest offender, but as the world's largest economy we have the effect of accelerating things or slowing them down. It's far harder for the rest of the world to do it if we don't. And we're not. Kicking the can down the road while we argue why it should be us to lead and trying the science with the scientists is going to lead to a much different world for our kids.

So yeah, I got the 80v blower and trimmer. I love not mixing oil and gas. I love not priming the damn things and fighting to make them run, especially after a winter in the garage. I got to geek out a bit and shop for some tools, and did my tiny, tiny part. I'll buy a battery-powered mower on the same platform when my gas mower gives up the ghost. The practical change to the vast majority of home-owner types is essentially zero. We'll nanny the batteries instead of liquid fuels. The effect on pros will be more, but it's manageable and getting rid of the sea of these things in private hands should allow for professional use of gas power in the spots where sheer size makes batteries an issue until the industry catches up to the cars.

Honestly, if we're going to subsidize the electric auto industry I don't know why we're not doing the same thing for this kind of stuff. I took the Federal tax credit when I replaced my heat a few years ago too. I'm sure the folks who make the battery stuff would dig that idea.
 
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