Show us your VFD conversions/installations

[MattT]

some of the VFD's available are designed and rated for horsepower output with single phase input, so derating is needed.

The drives that are rated at single phase input don't require a derate. That's only for 3 phase input drives running on single phase.

 

[WhoWhatNow]

cheaper here:

https://dealerselectric.com/L510-202-H1-N.asp

 

[laser3kw]

The drives that are rated at single phase input don't require a derate. That's only for 3 phase input drives running on single phase.

thanks - that is what I was trying to relay - I was stumbling with words yesterday.....

 

[Hot Chop shop]

Thanks for the quick response... would this one work? It’s less expensive and prime so I would have here in time for garage weekend... if not I’ll get the other one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07D76365G/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A16P4TUM521SQ8&psc=1

 

[slodat]

The Huan Yang GT series VFD's seem to get good reviews. I have one of the larger ones and it is serving me well thus far. They are available on Amazon.

 

[Fallon]

Thanks for the quick response... would this one work? It’s less expensive and prime so I would have here in time for garage weekend... if not I’ll get the other one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07D76365G/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A16P4TUM521SQ8&psc=1

Daym that's cheap. No name Chinese vendor. Likely to have less than stellar documentation & support. But for low usage home gamer scenarios the specs look pretty decent. If it were a sealed unit I'd consider it for my 3hp belt grinder project.

 

[whateg01]

I have a $100 ebay VFD that I used for awhile on my lathe, but it lacks provisions for a braking resistor. On a machine that can coast down, that's fine. On a lathe where I need to be able to stop nearly on a dime for threading, the VFD couldn't handle it. Upgrading to a Fuji Electric from Wolf Automation fixed that. As stated above, if the VFD is rated for single phase input, no de-rating is needed, at least for name brand devices. If it isn't rated for single phase, then de-rating is necessary. The kW rating is just HP converted to kW. 746 W = 1 HP, but that's resistive. Reactive loads change that a bit, but for our purposes, it's close enough.

Dave

 

[slodat]

The HY GT series have a chopper circuit for a braking resistor.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

Thanks all for the quick response... I know this thread was suppose to be to show off your installs not troubleshoot my noob questions.

Looks like the Huan Yang GT series VFD's have good reviews and is a little less expensive than the Teco... but most importantly it on amazon prime so I’ll have it in time for Saturday garage time (while the wife spends hours at target)

Nothings more exciting than getting a new tool that you “hope works” but don’t have 3ph to know for sure.

Looks like this is the right one for my motor and application.

 

[Slick111]

OK I have searched this thread start to finish not sure on my choice I have inherited a 220V 3 HP 3 phase lathe with variable speed function .Yes I checked it is 3 phase 220v not 440V Correct/school me on this as the machine is 2009 model and low hours not doing a motor change I need a rotary converter to power this on single phase 220V due to it is already equipped with a variable speed already ?

 

[Mgdoug3]

A VFD ought to work as well as a rotary phase converter.

 

[whateg01]

A rotary phase converter or a static phase converter or a vfd will probably work fine with it. The machine probably has a recess drive or similar to achieve the variable speed. Using that and leaving the motor at a fixed rpm will give you better torque than using the vfd alone.

 

[MushCreek]

Being a 2009, it could have a VFD for the variable speed. At my last job, we had a Hardinge clone that used a VFD for variable speed. Personally, I would go with a rotary as you can instant reverse for things like tapping. Plus, then you have 3 ph power in the shop, which may open doors for other equipment. A VFD is usually 'tuned' to one particular machine.

I had a VFD on my Bridgeport, and didn't like it. It worked OK, but I do a lot of power tapping, which requires instant reversing. I picked up a 10 hp 3 ph motor at an auction ($25!) and bought an American Rotary panel. That gives me 5 hp worth of capacity, and I wired drops for several machines.

I'm undecided whether I'll use the VFD for a soft start, variable speed function on my surface grinder, or just sell it.

 

[whateg01]

The vfd on my lathe lets me nearly instantly reverse the spindle, but you are correct about being limited to one machine per vfd. It's probably worth noting that my lathe offers no other means of varying the spindle speed aside from engaging the back gear.

 

[Firebrick43]

Being a 2009, it could have a VFD for the variable speed. At my last job, we had a Hardinge clone that used a VFD for variable speed. Personally, I would go with a rotary as you can instant reverse for things like tapping. Plus, then you have 3 ph power in the shop, which may open doors for other equipment. A VFD is usually 'tuned' to one particular machine.

I had a VFD on my Bridgeport, and didn't like it. It worked OK, but I do a lot of power tapping, which requires instant reversing. I picked up a 10 hp 3 ph motor at an auction ($25!) and bought an American Rotary panel. That gives me 5 hp worth of capacity, and I wired drops for several machines.

I'm undecided whether I'll use the VFD for a soft start, variable speed function on my surface grinder, or just sell it.

I don’t understand??? We have three Bridgeport’s at work(series 2) and two I personally converted to vfds. Both still power tap just as well if not slightly better. Part of the conversion we switched to micro v belts and the noise of the reeves drive is gone and cut is smoother. No one uses the unconverted one any more unless they have absolutely have to.

We used a new control panel. They bought them from somewhere. Moves the vfd controls up to the front. It has tapping mode the puts the spindle in reverse unless you hold in on the momentary button (just like the original control if I am remembering correctly) and then it’s forward. Also has an rpm display (spindle speed not the motor) and a rheostat.

 

[MattT]

I don’t understand??? We have three Bridgeport’s at work(series 2) and two I personally converted to vfds. Both still power tap just as well if not slightly better. Part of the conversion we switched to micro v belts and the noise of the reeves drive is gone and cut is smoother. No one uses the unconverted one any more unless they have absolutely have to.

We used a new control panel. They bought them from somewhere. Moves the vfd controls up to the front. It has tapping mode the puts the spindle in reverse unless you hold in on the momentary button (just like the original control if I am remembering correctly) and then it’s forward. Also has an rpm display (spindle speed not the motor) and a rheostat.

Sounds like you've got a drive system built by someone who knows what they're doing. Using the right drive, with dynamic braking, you can reverse faster than plugging the motor with a starter. And make it run faster in reverse like a Tapmatic. Stopping at a controlled depth for blind hole applications is also possible if you want to get fancy.

 

[MushCreek]

My VFD won't do that. I set it to the shortest setting recommended, and it still coasted a while before reversing. That, and it made angry electrical sounds.

 

[whateg01]

My VFD won't do that. I set it to the shortest setting recommended, and it still coasted a while before reversing. That, and it made angry electrical sounds.

I'd say that's a shortcoming of that particular VFD. My cheap one would be like that, and if I set the acceleration too high, it would error out. I'm actually getting ready to get my bridgeport clone up and running with that VFD, but I don't do much power tapping. That might change once I get the mill going, but if it does, I'll still keep it on a VFD for the variable speed. I hate belt changes.

Dave

 

[Fallon]

OK I have searched this thread start to finish not sure on my choice I have inherited a 220V 3 HP 3 phase lathe with variable speed function .Yes I checked it is 3 phase 220v not 440V Correct/school me on this as the machine is 2009 model and low hours not doing a motor change I need a rotary converter to power this on single phase 220V due to it is already equipped with a variable speed already ?

It mostly comes down to what do you mean by variable speed.

If the machine is using a VFD already, running a VFD off a VFD is going to be a bad idea. You never want to switch the output of a VFD, you always want to use the VFD to control the output. If a VFD is suddenly going to no load instead of the load, you can fry it in quick order.

If it does have a VFD already, typically you can drive them on single phase instead of 3 phase, but you have to de-rate the VFD by a third or something (Use a 5hp VFD to run a 3hp motor, etc.).

If the lathe doesn't have a VFD & is using mechanical means to vary the speed, a VFD should work fine. You'd need to re-wire it to have the VFD turn on & off or reverse things rather than just cutting power to the motor with a switch though.

 

[Slick111]

Yes it is a VFD system and a much newer machine KENT 14 x 40 V than I initially found older machine sales slip sounds like a rotary converter is best and since a 5hp will be getting a 10hp rotary system. Thanks every one for the input
.

 

[84prerunner]

Just ran across this thread...here is a video of a Chinese VFD running my 5hp compressor. This video was recorded very early on and was still in the testing phase, it has been cleaned up since then. It used a home built static phase converter before, it was used that way for years but struggled to startup when cold, smoked capacitors a couple times, pulled 60amps on startup etc. with the VFD it now pulls under 20amp on startup and hasnt had 1 issue in a year.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wX5waie6TtU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[jar944]

5hp dd 16" jointer runnkng fuji drive. 25 seconds is as slow as I can brake without adding a external resistor


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/buyH6OZCMA4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/QUOTE]


View media item 100738
View media item 100737

 

[bri_man57]

Thanks for the quick response... would this one work? It’s less expensive and prime so I would have here in time for garage weekend... if not I’ll get the other one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07D76365G/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A16P4TUM521SQ8&psc=1

I actually have two of these, one runs a vertical bandsaw and one runs a burr king belt sander. Both are working fine for me so far, havent seen an issue. I dont have a ton of hours on them yet so only time will tell. They are over-rated for the HP of the machines so seemed like a safe ish bet. The negative reviews were DOA's and figured as long as it got started, should be alright. Famous last words

 

[slodat]

Jar- those Fuji Frenic drives look really good for the price. And they rate them single phase supply into quite high HP.

I went with a Hitachi SJ-P1 when I found out the Fuji drives didn’t support the 267 Hz my milling machine spindle motor requires. It’s a 4 pole 8000 rpm spindle motor. The SJ-P1 is also rated for single phase supply into high HP levels. I bought the P1-00800-LFUF 15kW model rated for 31a output continuous when powered from single phase. Drive comes with bracket for wall or through wall mounting which places the heat sink and fans outside the enclosure. This is how the original drive was mounted when it was new. I had to open up the hole a little.









The spindle motor has an encoder and Hitachi has an encoder interface option for the P1 drive. I’m going to give closed loop sensor vector a try and see what that’s like. I’ll also have a chance to run the thermistor wire to the drive when I run the encoder wire and replace the motor main leads with modern VFD cable.

Short video of the spindle and drive doing their thing.

 

[whateg01]

Jar- those Fuji Frenic drives look really good for the price. And they rate them single phase supply into quite high HP.

I went with a Hitachi SJ-P1 when I found out the Fuji drives didn’t support the 267 Hz my milling machine spindle motor requires.

...

My manual shows that the Mini C2 is available in high HP and will go to 400 Hz.

Dave

 

[slodat]

Dave, I was looking at the Frenic Mega. My error on the mini. If I recall correctly, the mini had a lower frequency limit for sensorless vector. Ultimately, I wanted closed loop flux vector which lead me to the SJ-P1.

Just looked.. The Mega has a 200hz output limit in sensorless vector mode. V/Hz will go up to 500hz, but V/Hz mode is a waste of a sensorless vector drive.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

So little update... I decided to pull the trigger on the VFD...
then very last minute I found a thread or
YouTube video while my baby was keeping me up all night and it talked about the chances when using a VFD for a disc sander that the dust could burn it out in a short/shorter period of time. That you should make an enclosure for the VFD and add filters. Then some folks said the filters can over heat them... Then I saw some folks saying they have no filters and have been running their setup with no issues.
I figured I would pay a little more just to ensure I would have no issues down the line.

So I decided to go with the kbac-27 which is rated up to 2hp. The disc grind has a 2hp baldor motor. I got it hooked up and when I turned it to full speed I would get a fault error code (overloaded/underloaded) I called the tech support and they said even though it 2hp motor it’s drawing more amps. So I returned it and got the kbac-29 (it’s rated up to 3hp) and I finally got it up and running... still need to dial in all the trimpots to ensure its functioning correctly.









Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[84prerunner]

Anyone have any info on amperage in vs out on a VFD? my Chinese VFD i posted above has an amp load read out, it shows 6.1amp. my clamp meter shows 19amps going into the VFD. Is it a false reading or is the 6.1 amp on each leg x3?

 

[slodat]

The 6.1 is most likely the output current on one phase.

 

[MattT]

Anyone have any info on amperage in vs out on a VFD? my Chinese VFD i posted above has an amp load read out, it shows 6.1amp. my clamp meter shows 19amps going into the VFD. Is it a false reading or is the 6.1 amp on each leg x3?

Is the drive 120V input or 240V? Sounds about right for 120V but too high for 240V.

 

[84prerunner]

Is the drive 120V input or 240V? Sounds about right for 120V but too high for 240V.

240v

 

[MattT]

240v

In that case it sounds excessive. I'd expect to see somewhere around 10A on the input. Though a no name chinese drive probably isn't very efficient and also may not be reporting output amps accurately either. Clamp meter might not be all that accurate either on a drive input circuit.

 

[84prerunner]

IMO the 6amp is what seems low. Readings taken running a 5hp baldor motor spinning a 2 stage compressor @850rpm and 150psi.

I’d think 15-20amp sounds more accurate

 

[MattT]

IMO the 6amp is what seems low. Readings taken running a 5hp baldor motor spinning a 2 stage compressor @850rpm and 150psi.

I’d think 15-20amp sounds more accurate

Yeah that 6 A is way the **** off for a 5 horse under load. NEC cheat sheet says 15.2 for FLA but a modern Baldor should be under that some. Your 19 A input sounds about right for a, not fully, loaded 5 horse

 

[jar944]

I ordered another fuji frenic mini (this one is a 20hp) vfd for my newest shaper. With all the that's going on hopefully it still arrives this week.

6.6kw @ 60hz
View media item 101266

 

[b7labelle]

So little update... I decided to pull the trigger on the VFD...
then very last minute I found a thread or
YouTube video while my baby was keeping me up all night and it talked about the chances when using a VFD for a disc sander that the dust could burn it out in a short/shorter period of time. That you should make an enclosure for the VFD and add filters. Then some folks said the filters can over heat them... Then I saw some folks saying they have no filters and have been running their setup with no issues.
I figured I would pay a little more just to ensure I would have no issues down the line.

So I decided to go with the kbac-27 which is rated up to 2hp. The disc grind has a 2hp baldor motor. I got it hooked up and when I turned it to full speed I would get a fault error code (overloaded/underloaded) I called the tech support and they said even though it 2hp motor it’s drawing more amps. So I returned it and got the kbac-29 (it’s rated up to 3hp) and I finally got it up and running... still need to dial in all the trimpots to ensure its functioning correctly.









Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

Did you have any luck with adjusting the Current Limit trim pot on the KBAC-27D? Based on the manual I think that trim pot should help limit motor power, it needs to be tuned manually.

Currently on the fence on the KBAC-27D and a KBDA-27D.

 

[Botje]

Here some information on the vfd install i did on my Okuma LS540 lathe. The lathe originally came with star delta starter and a 10hp motor, running 400v 3-phase (household grid connection is 230v single phase or 400v 3-phase over here).

First I used an SEW drive I found when a local company scrapped a production line but that drive failed rather quickly, must have been damaged. Besides, programming it was annoying and not so happy with how it controlled the motor no matter how I set it up. During that time I swapped in a siemens 7.5hp motor with better insulation (totally enclosed fan cooled).
When the sew vfd failed I ran the lather with a ABB soft starter and that was OK but managed to find a replacement vfd, a Danfoss FC302 drive.

The Danfoss drive is a breeze to set up, super smooth controls, current measurements per phase, encoder options, very advanced motor control algorithms etc. Graphical display, multiple languages, various bus connections and sensor inputs, much more than I'll ever need.
Plan is to find a good way to brake the spindle, as this lathe is directly driven via a gearbox, no clutch/brake. Lower gears I can run short ramps but in the higher gears (up to 2000rpm) I need/want to find a setting to make it brake faster. Maybe some form of sensor that activates braking when I engage reverse or something like that. And some good estop switches, need to think of a safe way to wire those up.
Ignore the messy wires, still setting it up.

 

[laser3kw]

Plan is to find a good way to brake the spindle, as this lathe is directly driven via a gearbox, no clutch/brake. Lower gears I can run short ramps but in the higher gears (up to 2000rpm) I need/want to find a setting to make it brake faster. Maybe some form of sensor that activates braking when I engage reverse or something like that. And some good estop switches, need to think of a safe way to wire those up.
Ignore the messy wires, still setting it up.

Most VFD's have a provision for a external mount brake resistor to aid in braking. You program the VFD deceleration ramps to provide very quick braking. Some VFD's also have DC injection for braking. Either work well if you are only using them periodically. To frequently will trip a fault in the VFD.

 

[a6hux]

My shop smith mill controller.

 

[whateg01]

Most VFD's have a provision for a external mount brake resistor to aid in braking. You program the VFD deceleration ramps to provide very quick braking. Some VFD's also have DC injection for braking. Either work well if you are only using them periodically. To frequently will trip a fault in the VFD.

Most "quality" VFDs have a provision for it. Many cheap ones don't.

After I took the cheap one off of my lathe and replaced it with a Fuji, it now stops on a dime. The non-braked VFD will go on the milling machine now that it is in the shop. Some applications are fine without the braking resistor. I used the DC injection on the lathe before the upgrade. I have read that it should be used with caution, though, as it can damage motors. I don't honestly know how likely that is in a hobby application, but it's what I've read.

Dave