Power to new Building from Existing Meter

[kool55]

I have 200 amp service at my existing shop fed by 1/0 3 wire by POCO to my meter. Can I tap off of that meter socket to run new underground power 200 feet to the new building?
The new building is for equipment storage so 100 amp service would be ok. The existing shop load center has a sub panel being fed off the bottom lugs to the far side of that shop so its full.
I believe I need to upgrade the existing meter socket to dual lug. Is this the the ways to go? Is the 1/0 service cable to the meter capable to handle the additional load? Thanks

 

[Terry D]

Is it possible to come out of the shop panel instead. I say this because, your would have to replace the meter with a 200 amp meter main. It would have your main breaker in it and usually around 8 spaces to add circuits. Then you could put your 100 amp breaker in this to feed your new building. The issue here is that your panel inside your shop would now be a sub panel, You would have to reefed it with a 4-wire service cable or separate conductors, and all the neutrals and grounds would have to isolated from each other. Plus your GEC would have to be moved to the new outside meter combo. That outside enclosure would become your new main panel. They don't make a meter that your can just tap off to get another feed. You need to have overcurrent protection for the feeder. As far as the size of wire feeing your existing service, that is determined by your PoCo. It still would only be a 200 amp service. And they are exempt from following the NEC. I will try to post a picture what im talking about. Your PoCo might have a list of what enclosures that they accept. Check with them first. As far if they require a bypass style. The one pictured is not a bypass style.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milbank...er-Socket-Load-Center-R5168-XTL-200/202504165

 

[STINEY]

Here is what I used in a similar situation. The power from the transformer feeds a pole in my yard, and main power runs underground to my house. The breaker feeds my shop also underground. Since this picture was taken there is a second breaker feeding another building underground as well.

Hope this helps.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

I would think you'd need a breaker before the underground feed. 1/0 for a total 300A potential should be okay but might be pushing it in the eyes of some inspectors.

I have a load center fed by, I'm guessing 1/0 aluminum, that is buried from the POCO and in the picture below, 4 high voltage applications has filled this load center and running power to a shed 130' away from the main panel in the interior of the house is not going to happen. I'm planning on using a two pole duplex breaker (see link below) to free up one slot to add a 60A feed breaker for my shed if/when I decide to run power to a sub-panel there. I may even consider adding a second two pole duplex breaker if I decide to install a 50A receptacle for welding in the driveway.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-B...Trip-Quad-Circuit-Breaker-BQC240240/100557207

 

[kool55]

This was used by somebody wanting to quick charge a Tesla. Figured it could be a way to sent power to the other building. I don't want another meter . Have to many of them now.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

This was used by somebody wanting to quick charge a Tulsa. Figured it could be a way to sent power to the other building. I don't want another meter . Have to many of them now.

That looks like it would work fine as long as it was protected by a breaker before any human interface. I hear you on breakers, first couple that put an offer on our current house couldn't remove their contingency (selling their current house) so we got it. Guy had already gotten a quote for a 24'x24' detached garage and HOA approval ahead of time. The contractor wanted a dedicated meter which I thought was stupid as it's automatically another $20/mo. with zero electricity forever!

 

[dcg9381]

Same deal, I don't see how that works as it's not over-current protected. You'll light up that 100A capable wire before you'll trip the circuit.

At my place, we split from a single meter to two different boxes. I don't know what your setup is, but this is how I did it...

I think you need a box at the meter that splits to 200A service and 100A service. Or you need to come off your 200A panel that exists.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have 200 amp service at my existing shop fed by 1/0 3 wire by POCO to my meter. Can I tap off of that meter socket to run new underground power 200 feet to the new building?
The new building is for equipment storage so 100 amp service would be ok. The existing shop load center has a sub panel being fed off the bottom lugs to the far side of that shop so its full.
I believe I need to upgrade the existing meter socket to dual lug. Is this the the ways to go? Is the 1/0 service cable to the meter capable to handle the additional load? Thanks

your meter pan/socket would need dual lugs

do you know if it has dual lugs?

This was used by somebody wanting to quick charge a Tulsa. Figured it could be a way to sent power to the other building. I don't want another meter . Have to many of them now.

Thats not a code compliant install since the neutral is blue and the underground ground wire is bare.

Also the bare neutral in the overhead mast may be an issue as well

 

[Terry D]

This was used by somebody wanting to quick charge a Tulsa. Figured it could be a way to sent power to the other building. I don't want another meter . Have to many of them now.

I am thinking someone added those extra lugs. I have never seen or heard of dual lug 200 amp meter socket. Just because i haven't seen one, doesn't mean they don't exist, but inever seen one in any of the areas that i have worked.

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[Terry D]

Plus, to me, you would only be able to feed 2 100 amp panels. Not a 200 and a 100

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[Bert_]

Plus, to me, you would only be able to feed 2 100 amp panels. Not a 200 and a 100

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Not how it works. The service is sized by the load. The main ratings can add up to more than the service capacity.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Plus, to me, you would only be able to feed 2 100 amp panels. Not a 200 and a 100

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why not?

Remember, its not about the total amperage of the breakers. its about the calculated load

 

[u2slow]

The blue neutral would be correct for Europe. At least here's a band of white tape. Probably used a 3c Teck cable for the charger - they normally use red/black/blue.

I am thinking someone added those extra lugs. I have never seen or heard of dual lug 200 amp meter socket. Just because i haven't seen one, doesn't mean they don't exist, but inever seen one in any of the areas that i have worked.

Same here.

In my locale, the meter box is sealed by the PoCo, and the first point you can add extra loads is after the singular, main disconnect.

 

[Kevin Essiambre]

This was used by somebody wanting to quick charge a Tulsa. Figured it could be a way to sent power to the other building. I don't want another meter . Have to many of them now.

For everyone wondering, this image appears to use Teck cable which is a universal cable here in Canada. The blue wire should have been re-identified white or grey, which is permissible by our codes for a cable assembly regardless of the conductor size. The 3 conductor cable does not include an identified conductor... 4 conductor does. It's a very common cable to use for literally everything.

As for those lugs, I've seen them somewhere before. I'm not sure if double tapping the meter is permitted as they did in this image...

Oh, and out code still permits the use of a bare neutral conductor on a service. There are some conditions to be met, but this is a separate topic.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.

 

[kool55]

The wire colors on that attachment did not concern me. I was just showing a meter with dual lugs. Don't even know the ampacity of that meter base either.
I don't know what my meter base has as I would have to break the seal .
dcg9381, how did the power split from the single meter to the two boxes?

 

[Terry D]

why not?

Remember, its not about the total amperage of the breakers. its about the calculated load

Ok i get. Do they make a dual lug 200 amp meter socket. Im just asking. I have never seen one.

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[kool55]

I assume the power from the 320A meter socket fed the 200 amp panel then out thru bottom lugs ,then over to the 125A panel.

 

[Terry D]

Not how it works. The service is sized by the load. The main ratings can add up to more than the service capacity.

So do they make a 200amp meter socket with dual lugs on the load side

 

[Terry D]

why not?

Remember, its not about the total amperage of the breakers. its about the calculated load

I was talking about, if they make a 200 amp dual lug meter base, which I don't think they do, that it could only feed (2) 100 amp main breaker panels. No different than a 320/400 amp meter base feeding (2) 200 amp main breaker panels. The meter socket is only rated for so many amps and the main breakers in the panels are going to determine how many amps could pass through that socket.

 

[Bert_]

So do they make a 200amp meter socket with dual lugs on the load side

Maybe someone does, they aren't common. I have used a terminal box right off the load side of a 200A meter socket before.

I was talking about, if they make a 200 amp dual lug meter base, which I don't think they do, that it could only feed (2) 100 amp main breaker panels. No different than a 320/400 amp meter base feeding (2) 200 amp main breaker panels. The meter socket is only rated for so many amps and the main breakers in the panels are going to determine how many amps could pass through that socket.

Not true, the service is sized by load. It is legal to have 300A worth of main breakers connected to a 200A socket. It is pretty common on larger services. I just ordered stuff for a service like this. It will have 6 main breakers totaling 1400A. The service will be 800A.

 

[kool55]

This is a Milbank 320 meter base with the dual lugs. Would this work? I am thinking I should consider running 200A service to the new building for future needs. I will not need it for what I will be doing now.

 

[Terry D]

Maybe someone does, they aren't common. I have used a terminal box right off the load side of a 200A meter socket before.



Not true, the service is sized by load. It is legal to have 300A worth of main breakers connected to a 200A socket. It is pretty common on larger services. I just ordered stuff for a service like this. It will have 6 main breakers totaling 1400A. The service will be 800A.

Yes, I get that. You are probably talking about a multi family service with multiple meters each with there own main. And I get there are deration factors included in when calculating the size of service. If you have more than 6 meter mains, you will be required to have a main disconnect to shut all power off. At least that is how we are required to do it in my area. That disconnect size would probably be 800 amp. I get all of that.

We are talking about a single service with one meter. Since we know they probably don't make a dual lug single meter 200 amp meter socket or they are very uncommon. I just cannot see running more amps through a single meter socket that what its rated for. With a 200 amp and a 100 amp main breaker panels being feed off a single 200 amp socket, you have the potential of over 200 amps going through that socket. Especially in a commercial environment, which it sounds like this is. And lets just say this is a overhead fed meter, this amperage would also be going through the service conductors from the weather head to the meter. To me, it would be like a 100 amp meter socket feeding a 200 amp main breaker panel. And I cant tell you how many of those I have had to replace due to homes being sold, and someone doing it wrong, but the service conductors were just 100 amp also. But I guess im just thinking wrong.

 

[Terry D]

This is a Milbank 320 meter base with the dual lugs. Would this work? I am thinking I should consider running 200A service to the new building for future needs. I will not need it for what I will be doing now.

Yes, in my experience, this would feed (2) 200 amp enclosures with main breakers, being disconnects or main panels. Or (1) 200 amp and (1) 100 amp. Your PoCo will determine if their underground feed to the meter socket will have to be upgraded, because you are increasing your service load. You might have to install overcurrent protection to the feeders for your new building before they go underground, That could be done by nippling a breaker disconnect to the side of the 320 meter socket

 

[dcg9381]

dcg9381, how did the power split from the single meter to the two boxes?

Meter has "dual" lugs. I might have a photo if necessary

 

[dcg9381]

Yes, in my experience, this would feed (2) 200 amp enclosures with main breakers, being disconnects or main panels. Or (1) 200 amp and (1) 100 amp. Your PoCo will determine if their underground feed to the meter socket will have to be upgraded, because you are increasing your service load. You might have to install overcurrent protection to the feeders for your new building before they go underground, That could be done by nippling a breaker disconnect to the side of the 320 meter socket

This is what I've implemented. Meter is 320A, dual lugs. It feeds 2 x 200A panels, one of those is a 100A breaker to the shop sub-panel. The other is a 200A breaker to the house sub-panel. I had an option for 400A meter, but won't use it.

I do it this way because my shop has solar panels and the house (being built now) will have a 20KW+ generator and I need those things separate in the event of a grid loss..

 

[Fasthotrod]

I have 200 amp service at my existing shop fed by 1/0 3 wire by POCO to my meter. Can I tap off of that meter socket to run new underground power 200 feet to the new building?
The new building is for equipment storage so 100 amp service would be ok. The existing shop load center has a sub panel being fed off the bottom lugs to the far side of that shop so its full.
I believe I need to upgrade the existing meter socket to dual lug. Is this the the ways to go? Is the 1/0 service cable to the meter capable to handle the additional load? Thanks

I had a similar issue and I didn't have much luck finding a new 200A meter can with dual lugs... and I'd have concerns about overloading it unless I did a proper load study, and the POCO might not approve it... so I figured it might be better to go with a new Meter/Main panel instead. The SquareD panel that I bought was on my POCO approved list... make sure that you check with them to see what is needed/required for your area.

So my initial intent was to replace my meter socket with a SquareD RC816F200CH Meter/Main panel. I bought mine from Lowes, but it's also available at Home Depot (slightly cheaper) and a few other places.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-2...-Main-Breaker-Meter-Combo-Load-Center/3128195

It is an 8 space, 16 circuit capable panel with a set of feed through lugs at the bottom of the row of breakers. It can be fed from the top or the bottom, and has a few different conduit locations on the can.

My intentions were to have the POCO cut power, pull the meter can and swap in this panel, and have the POCO turn it back on. Then I'd run 4 conductors from the new Meter/Main to the panel in my house and make that one a sub-panel. (Split the neutral/grounds and isolate the neutral.) The Meter/Main has a 200A main circuit breaker, so everything downstream is protected. The main breaker in the house panel would now just be acting as a disconnect.

Then when I was ready to feed the power to the shop, I was going to install a Square D Sub-Feed Lug (HOML2225) which basically looks like a big terminal block that takes up 4 breaker positions and has two lugs that you can use to feed power to another panel.

Grab a couple of lugs for the neutral and ground, and run four conductors sized for 200A over to the shop sub-panel.

As it turned out, my POCO liked the plan and sent someone out to take a look at everything just to be sure. (Super nice guy.) So we went over the plan, I showed him my electrical drawings and shop plans, and we went over a few options. Ultimately, we ended up changing my plans for the better... but that's another story for another time.

I don't know what you're working with, what your budget is, etc... but if you had the space to put in a panel like I mentioned above, it might be an option for you. You could install a 100A or a 200A breaker rather than the sub-feed lug to feed the shop if you wanted the additional point as a disconnect. (HOM2100CP or HOM2200BB for example.)

Hope this helps.

Mark

 

[Bert_]

Yes, I get that. You are probably talking about a multi family service with multiple meters each with there own main. And I get there are deration factors included in when calculating the size of service. If you have more than 6 meter mains, you will be required to have a main disconnect to shut all power off. At least that is how we are required to do it in my area. That disconnect size would probably be 800 amp. I get all of that.

We are talking about a single service with one meter. Since we know they probably don't make a dual lug single meter 200 amp meter socket or they are very uncommon. I just cannot see running more amps through a single meter socket that what its rated for. With a 200 amp and a 100 amp main breaker panels being feed off a single 200 amp socket, you have the potential of over 200 amps going through that socket. Especially in a commercial environment, which it sounds like this is. And lets just say this is a overhead fed meter, this amperage would also be going through the service conductors from the weather head to the meter. To me, it would be like a 100 amp meter socket feeding a 200 amp main breaker panel. And I cant tell you how many of those I have had to replace due to homes being sold, and someone doing it wrong, but the service conductors were just 100 amp also. But I guess im just thinking wrong.

No. The equipment in my example is for a farm service. The metering is handled by the electric co-op and will be a single meter with CT's in the transformer. I will have a lug only panelboard with 6 breakers totalling 1400A fed with 800A conductors from the transformer to the panel.

With a single main the conductors and equipment must match the main breaker rating. Once you have multiple mains that is no longer true anywhere that the NEC applies. Commercial, industrial, residential does not matter. 300A worth of multiple main breakers on a 200A service is legal. The service is sized by the LOAD not the breaker ratings.

 

[Bert_]

This is a Milbank 320 meter base with the dual lugs. Would this work? I am thinking I should consider running 200A service to the new building for future needs. I will not need it for what I will be doing now.

Post a pic of the outside of your existing meter socket and the inside of your main panel. There may be a simple solution that does not require replacing all the equipment.

 

[kool55]

I have a 125A breaker at the bottom of the main panel feeding a sub panel at the other end of the shop. The POCO pole is 30 ft. from the meter. I was looking to tap from the meter , go underground behind the shop to the new building.

 

[Bert_]

I have a 125A breaker at the bottom of the main panel feeding a sub panel at the other end of the shop. The POCO pole is 30 ft. from the meter. I was looking to tap from the meter , go underground behind the shop to the new building.

A meter like that on the side of a building really isn't set up to feed multiple panels. Be a lot easier to just slap a 100A breaker in the main panel. Picture shows plenty of room.

 

[kool55]

Bert, if it matters the meter is a CL200 240V.

 

[kool55]

Thanks Mark

 

[Bert_]

Bert, if it matters the meter is a CL200 240V.

That is just the meter itself not the socket. The meter belongs to the utility company and just plugs into the socket. Really makes no difference with what you are trying to do.

 

[Terry D]

Like i said in post #2. Come out of the main panel with a 100amp circuit for a sub panel would be the easiest

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[kool55]

Bert, I would have to break the seal to show the socket.
Terry, I agree the 100A breaker would be the easiest way.
I am concerned with future use of this building. While I may not require alot of Elec. now , down the road when I am gone ,my Son might need more or maybe the next owner. So not to wanting to spend to excess, I am ok if I have to swap out Meter boxes. I think I would feel better with feeding that structure with 200A service. I have been know to overbuild too.
My needs are to store my Farm tractors in it and maybe my LQ Horse trailer that I can plug in the RV 50A cord. Building size will be 40x80 Pole. Insulated,concrete floor.

 

[AntonLargiader]

If you're building a system on speculation I guess you can build whatever you want. But you asked about 100A and your actual needs (based on your saying it's a storage building) are low. Lighting and some receps? 100A is way overkill for that.

Let future owners provide for their own needs. They might want 3-phase 400A. They might want to tear it down.

 

[Bert_]

Bert, I would have to break the seal to show the socket.

Don't do that. We already know whats inside the meter socket. The pic of the outside was enough. It is not set up for multiple feeds.

Terry, I agree the 100A breaker would be the easiest way.
I am concerned with future use of this building. While I may not require alot of Elec. now , down the road when I am gone ,my Son might need more or maybe the next owner. So not to wanting to spend to excess, I am ok if I have to swap out Meter boxes. I think I would feel better with feeding that structure with 200A service. I have been know to overbuild too.
My needs are to store my Farm tractors in it and maybe my LQ Horse trailer that I can plug in the RV 50A cord. Building size will be 40x80 Pole. Insulated,concrete floor.

If you upgrade the socket then there is a good chance that the utility will also want to upgrade their wire. That may or may not be at your expense.

Lot of farm places with more load than your's run on 200A service. 100A to a building will run a lot of stuff. If you're that concerned run a 125A feeder.

 

[Terry D]

Bert, I would have to break the seal to show the socket.
Terry, I agree the 100A breaker would be the easiest way.
I am concerned with future use of this building. While I may not require alot of Elec. now , down the road when I am gone ,my Son might need more or maybe the next owner. So not to wanting to spend to excess, I am ok if I have to swap out Meter boxes. I think I would feel better with feeding that structure with 200A service. I have been know to overbuild too.
My needs are to store my Farm tractors in it and maybe my LQ Horse trailer that I can plug in the RV 50A cord. Building size will be 40x80 Pole. Insulated,concrete floor.

Only you know what you want. 200 amps in that building for storage is a lot, but if you want to set it up for your son, that's a different story. You are looking at upgrading your service to 320/400 amps. First thing I would do Monday morning is contact you PoCo. I don't know how it works there, but here they will send a estimator out to look at the job. They are responsible for the location of that meter socket and the conductors feeding it. They also may have a list of their approved meter bases that can be used. They will let you know if they need to upgrade the underground feed also. They may charge for this or not. They are probably going to want the size of the loads that you are planning to add.

I don't know about permits in your area, I have been in some rural areas where permits were not needed. This would be another phone call to make to the City or township. Your existing 200 amp meter base will be replaced with a 320 amp that will have dual lugs. It looks like in the picture that your 200 amp panel is back to back with the meter. Depending if the conductors will be long enough to reach the lugs in the new meter socket, they may have to be changed. Your 200 amp panel inside will remain the same, it still will be a main panel, don't have to bother with neutrals and grounds.

An enclosure with a 200 amp breaker will be mounted off the side of the meter base, connected with a ****** . This will be considered your other main disconnect with over current protection. Once again, I don't know your requirements in your area, but you are going to have to install a grounding electrode conductor to that. It could be from a water pipe, building steel or ground rod. You should be able to look at you other panel and follow where it goes. It should be a #4 copper or #2 Alum.

You will have to run (2) hots (1) neutral and (1) equipment ground underground to the new 200 amp main breaker panel in the new building. All neutrals and grounds will be isolated from each other, this will be a sub panel. As far as what size wire and conduit to install, if there is voltage drop to be concerned about, that will determine that. Hope this gives you some idea. Main thing is to check with your PoCo and local authority's.

 

[alfredeneuman]

your actual needs (based on your saying it's a storage building) are low. Lighting and some receps? 100A is way overkill for that.

Even 50A would be overkill

 

[kool55]

OK,thinking about all of your input and I really appreciate it too, I am now looking at adding a 125 sub feed lug to my existing panel as suggested. Any pros or cons by using a 125A breaker instead. Like the one I am feeding my sub panel?
Would like to run copper off of either to a box to the outside wall where I could then run AL underground to the building.Just because AL is hard to bend. If thats not stupid ,what type of box would that be?
The new run is about 200 ft.
I think my thought process previously was when some others come over with their LQ horse trailers I could supply them with one or two 30 and 50A RV hook ups. No big deal as the can use their onboard generators. I would have my LQ hook up inside and only use it to keep the batteries charged and refrigerator on.
Also considered HVAC just to control Summer time humidity.