2020 Garage Sale Thread

[Private Lugnutz]

Never in my life did I think one shed could house Snow White and the 7 Million Silverfish, serve as the clubhouse for the Cockroach Club of America, and be THE premiere 5 star resort for 8 legged guests. There was also possible evidence it was utilized as an AirBnB for 4 legged friends.

Well I just came home from my first estate sale. All I can say is people are animals...[ ]...All an awesome decent stuff but like I said I just couldn't take the animals that were there.

So. two stories with critters, just different kinds of critters!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I drove to my flea market, parked, walked about 50 feet, stopped at about 3 tables, when the skies that were looking a lot more ominous than the "scattered showers" forecast the whole trip there opened up and didn't stop. I got drenched and drove 80 miles round trip for a 4" adjustable (Lugz 2020_38). But, if you don't go, you don't find, and if I'm going to come home with only one tool, I don't mind if it's any 4" adjustable, which don't grow on trees, and when it's any J.P. Danielson BET'R GRIP 4" adjustable, it's already a worthwhile trip. When it's a J.P. Danielson BET'R GRIP 4" adjustable with a 1942 date code, it's a great trip.

 

[tym]

I needed high-impedance headphones for another radio I'm restoring (a $5 Atwater-Kent Model 20 this time), so patronized an online surplus shop and got the below H63 headset NOS. Even the box is mil-spec! It could be from anywhere between WWII and Vietnam. I also picked up a flashlight (I have a sickness) and other bits and bobs.

I'm still avoiding in-person sales (and will likely continue to do so until 2021) as the irresponsible/stupid is pretty thick these days.

EDIT: The headset has an order number on it ending in "1955" and was manufactured by Lionel Corp, so it seems to be Korean War era.

 

[LesserSon]

All I can say is people are animals.

+1!

NYBM,
A friend and I got into a discussion about the origins of the quote I notice you have as your sig line.
He champions R.Kipling, but acknowledges G.Orwell having a closer approximation.
It seems to me there are MANY variations, which various newspapermen and other writers have adapted to various situations (like Col.Jessup’s elaboration on the “truth” in A Few Good Men). I jokingly suggested it should be attributed to B.Franklin.
Any insight?

 

[b.well]

Originally Posted by 3baygarage View Post
Never in my life did I think one shed could house Snow White and the 7 Million Silverfish, serve as the clubhouse for the Cockroach Club of America, and be THE premiere 5 star resort for 8 legged guests. There was also possible evidence it was utilized as an AirBnB for 4 legged friends.

Originally Posted by NYBODYMAN View Post
Well I just came home from my first estate sale. All I can say is people are animals...[ ]...All an awesome decent stuff but like I said I just couldn't take the animals that were there.

So. two stories with critters, just different kinds of critters!

Nice connection...lol

I haven't seen people be disrespectful to the things or others at estate sales.
That's awful. If I worked there and saw that I would have kicked the guy out. If I question a price I often get an ebay sale price comp in return. Local sales should be at least 1/2 off ebay prices. Of course your goal is to get better at any sale and get things at "you ****" prices. I've done best at home owner run estate/garage sales. Professional Estate Sales are typically more busy, more people, more hectic (competition!). They can be good too

 

[LesserSon]

I’m not big on estate sales. Been to two or three in the past two years. Have not seen the aggression some of you have. I’ve settled more into flea markets and community-wide yard/garage sales when they come up. Still, some sellers and not a few buyers are just plain ****-heads.
As far as prices, I reject eBay comps. If the seller could sell the item on eBay, they would have. “Go ahead: list it. I’ve got the app on my phone. I’ll wait.”
Sometimes I pick something up just because it’s interesting. I may even ask a price. Doesn’t mean I’m going to buy it. I’ve had a few sellers get furious with me because I wouldn't make a counteroffer, nor agree to their “fair price.” Why would I want to pay a fair price? If you don’t want people handling your merchandise, don’t put it on display.
The most frustrating experience I’ve had was at a flea in Philly. I was looking at some necklaces of random Snap-on sockets, trying to find specific date-codes for a set I was building. The apparent sellers were a young guy and I guess his grandfather. The older guy gets in my space and starts yelling “Is Snep-on, the best!” I agreed and went back to looking. “Is best! ...Snep-on! Snep-on!” he kept yelling at me like I didn’t understand, distracting me. Finally, I gave up and bought some Snap-on from another seller a couple tables away. Walking back for another attempt, the younger guy jeers at me for not wanting to pay his prices. But THEY NEVER GAVE ME A PRICE. Whatever, you goddam lunatics.

 

[mikeinri]

Well I just came home from my first estate sale. All I can say is people are animals... Then when they let us all in I went straight for the garage and it was just me and another guy and he was literally just tearing everything apart throwing stuff all over the place that was all neatly organized just literally picking something up and tossing it to the side. He was stupid though because he was covering up other stuff. I found this nice little Colombian vise....

I too went to my first-ever estate sale earlier this summer, I think I posted a story here. I wasn't early, but it was a complete zoo, cars parked for a solid quarter mile and a police car (detail) out front.

What was left in the garage was mostly on the floor (not sure that it started out there), and people were hastily/noisily rifling through the remnants.

Especially with covid, and the insane asking prices for most of the stuff that was left, I decided this just isn't for me.

Great score on the Columbian vise, though!

Mike

 

[RTM]

Most of the flippers I see are animals, but they pass on the good stuff. I picked up an 1890s era pile of tools at about noon, the pickers took the HF grinder, Ryobi sander, etc, and we’re frantically googling to see what they had. Left quit the mess in the 3 hours before I arrived, according to the guy who suggested I attend.

One flipper got kicked out of a garage sale just for being a ********, came in, started asking for 25% of asking, interrupting the seller, pushing past people. Was entertaining to stand back and watch the hung over seller deal with him.

NY, your hammer is probably a Maydole, a good score
https://archive.org/details/internationaltoolcataloglibrary?and[]=maydole&sin=&sort=-date

 

[Outlawmws]

I drove to my flea market, parked, walked about 50 feet, stopped at about 3 tables, when the skies that were looking a lot more ominous than the "scattered showers" forecast the whole trip there opened up and didn't stop. I got drenched and drove 80 miles round trip for a 4" adjustable. But, if you don't go, you don't find, and if I'm going to come home with only one tool, I don't mind if it's any 4" adjustable, which don't grow on trees, and when it's any J.P. Danielson BET'R GRIP 4" adjustable, it's already a worthwhile trip. When it's a J.P. Danielson BET'R GRIP 4" adjustable with a 1942 date code, it's a great trip.

Lugs, GREAT rationalization! I love it! (seriously!) but the first sentence said it all; it's part of the game.


On the several discussions of lower life forms; that's part of the game too, unfortunately.

I came close to dumping a box of tools over the head of a guy that was picking stuff out of one box and throwing his discards at my hands in another box one day. Generally, the prof. flippers are the worst.

 

[Rickster]

Those kind of estate sales and garage sales are the most entertaining!!!...... Whenever I’m in line and someone asks what I’m looking for I always tell them I’m there for the tea cups.

 

[Outlawmws]

Those kind of estate sales and garage sales are the most entertaining!!!...... Whenever I’m in line and someone asks what I’m looking for I always tell them I’m there for the tea cups.

 

[3baygarage]

Lugz, that’s a nicelittle find.

BODYMAN, I know what you mean. I always try to be respectful of the items and others. No reason to throw things and such, and get in the space of others. I know most of us here could write a book about sales.

 

[r_olson_06]

But, if you don't go, you don't find.

This is so true. The thought of what might have been can be a haunting feeling.

I’m not big on estate sales. Been to two or three in the past two years. Have not seen the aggression some of you have. I’ve settled more into flea markets and community-wide yard/garage sales when they come up. Still, some sellers and not a few buyers are just plain ****-heads.
As far as prices, I reject eBay comps. If the seller could sell the item on eBay, they would have. “Go ahead: list it. I’ve got the app on my phone. I’ll wait.”
Sometimes I pick something up just because it’s interesting. I may even ask a price. Doesn’t mean I’m going to buy it. I’ve had a few sellers get furious with me because I wouldn't make a counteroffer, nor agree to their “fair price.” Why would I want to pay a fair price? If you don’t want people handling your merchandise, don’t put it on display.
The most frustrating experience I’ve had was at a flea in Philly. I was looking at some necklaces of random Snap-on sockets, trying to find specific date-codes for a set I was building. The apparent sellers were a young guy and I guess his grandfather. The older guy gets in my space and starts yelling “Is Snep-on, the best!” I agreed and went back to looking. “Is best! ...Snep-on! Snep-on!” he kept yelling at me like I didn’t understand, distracting me. Finally, I gave up and bought some Snap-on from another seller a couple tables away. Walking back for another attempt, the younger guy jeers at me for not wanting to pay his prices. But THEY NEVER GAVE ME A PRICE. Whatever, you goddam lunatics.

Sorry but I had to chuckle just because I could totally visualize this. I have been involved with situations like these but only at pawn shops never at fleas or estates. I remember one case at a pawn shop where a gal behind the counter was looking up every socket on eBay. After the first one I said don't even bother you can just keep them. I was told it was store policy. Oddly enough that store was only opened 6 months... Shocker...

I had another one where I went to a pawnshop that was plumb full literally tucker totes full to the brim of tools (should have been the first warning sign). I dug in a tote and pulled out a Blackhawk 911 missing the drive plug. I brought it up to the counter. I was quoted $50 for it. I said no thank you walked towards the door. You think insulted the guys family that I didn't counter offer him. He said shoot me a fair price on it. I told him we are too far apart to be fair. He said the best he could do is $35. I walked out. The shear amount of tools at a place can be a red flag for sure.


Looking for a Round Beam Plomb 1068 Double Box End Wrench

 

[3baygarage]

So who knows anything about Dunbar Drop Forge of Chicago? That’s the mystery Diamond D wrench. Sweet logo anyway. I happened to use it to remove the Hollands vise.

Hechsharp (West Germany) below it, another oddball. Utica, Klein, Crestoloy, Barcalo, and Williams along with them.

 

[bmwrd0]

+1!

NYBM,
A friend and I got into a discussion about the origins of the quote I notice you have as your sig line.
He champions R.Kipling, but acknowledges G.Orwell having a closer approximation.
It seems to me there are MANY variations, which various newspapermen and other writers have adapted to various situations (like Col.Jessup’s elaboration on the “truth” in A Few Good Men). I jokingly suggested it should be attributed to B.Franklin.
Any insight?

Its misattributed to Orwell, but is actually an interpretation of what he had alluded to about pacifism in various works. The actual quote is from Notes on Nationalism and goes: "Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf."

That said, I love a good estate sale. You know the ones, just a giant junk pile you have too sort through and then negotiate with the seller. Love those because you never know what is in there. Even better than a good flea market. I am not a fan of when the estate sale company sorts through everything and prices each individual item. They never know when things that should be together as one but price each part individually, and the parts are all over the place. Blah. Worse, they often "clean" places up and you know good stuff just gets tossed.

But, I never try to get there at such a time as to deal with the flippers. What I really hate about those guys is when the make a pile, and then leave the area and just expect everyone to know its their pile. And I don't mean a pile over at the hold area, but one right in the middle of everything.

That and they are often the worst drivers.

 

[RTM]

That and they are often the worst drivers.

My gawd. My GF wondered why I never park In front of a sale. Since she asked, we’ve seen two accidents, and one aftermath. I’ll block half a block away rather than in front.

Seen so many whacked curbs, parked in the middle of the street. None gotten out of while still rolling, yet.

 

[Wrencher 160]

The small hammer looks like a coopers hammer. The one I have has a groove on the flat side. They were used for knocking the metal bands into place.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Those kind of estate sales and garage sales are the most entertaining!!!...... Whenever I’m in line and someone asks what I’m looking for I always tell them I’m there for the tea cups.

I gotta remember that one. Although by now a few of the resellers know I'm the "tool guy" I'm still using it.

 

[Provincial]

I went to an estate sale this morning. I got there at the opening time, and some of the items in the Craigslist ad had been sold already. I found a few things, and got away for $11.00 total.

P&C 483 Clutch Head Screwdriver
Proto 9604 Straight Slot Screwdriver
Bonney ALH34 1/2 dr. 6-pt. 1-1/16 deep socket
Proto Professional 1/2 dr. 1-1/8 6-pt. impact socket
Made in USA point file with integrated pocket clip
H K Porter "IMPAKDRIVER" 3/8 drive
Caterpillar 5B781 7/16 x 1/2 DOE made by Armstrong
5/32 T-handle Allen wrench
Powr-Kraft 100 13/16 combo made by Barcalo
3M double-sided carpet tape
Craftsman Crown 6" x 3/4" coarse grinder wheel
11/32 x 8-3/4" tommy bar
5/16 x 6" tommy bar that fits Plomb and Proto 3/8" drive tools

The P&C screwdriver even has the original price tag! $1.55 for "The best tools money can buy"!

 

[gpw_42]

Nice tommy bars, Provincial!

I've been on a self-imposed tool hunting lockdown for the last 30 days (after an expensive out of town vehicle repair...), and it's killing me. I typically enjoy hitting the flea and estate sales, so reading these stories is extra entertaining. Garage sales can be great for cheap prices, but the return on the time and fuel invested isn't worth it. The worst I ever saw was an estate sale in Savannah, GA which involved elbows when they opened the gate and let everybody in. I stepped back and let them go, and decided I'd never do THAT again. It was nearly 20 years before I went to the next estate sale.

I like the professional sales around here, as they put up pictures in advance, so I can decide (under normal circumstances) if I'm going or not, or arriving late. The flippers and dedicated collectors (!) start arriving around 0600 for sales which open at 0800. With 2 hours to stand in line, and typically only so many faces, you start to get to know each other, and who's after what goodies. The sale company I follow is good about managing flow into the house to avoid the elbow situation. What makes me crazy is when people sit in their car when it's cold or rainy, then want to walk to the front of the line with "I was here..." Where I grew up, you'd get your throat slit for that ****; I've said something a few times, but nobody else in the line will back me up, so it's kind of a waste (NJ vs. NC). Oh well, not worth getting worked up about.

Cool and rainy here today, so glad I'm not standing in line at Day 1 of the estate sale. Professional sales here go 50% off at noon on Saturday, but there's usually nothing but junk left by that point...and not much of that.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

(NJ vs. NC).

Haha. Never ever in a gazillion years would anyone ever get away with cutting the line here. If you so much as get a little too close (and I don't mean COVID-19 close, I mean, "I was here first, back the **** off out of my personal collecting space" close) to someone who is already squared up at a flea market table here you will get a dirty look, at the very least, never mind trying to reach for something on a part of the table that may not even be right in front of the guy!

 

[bmwrd0]

Yeah, I don't like the sign up lists or other fufaral like that. Most around here have you line up and don't take lists. The ones who do are often the ones who check their phones to see what something should cost. In other words, people who don't know what they are doing. The pro companies have gone through and done the work, most of them are antique dealers or specialists in these type of sales and know who and what are their client base and the general cost of things. That said, very few are tool specialists, so things like that can be very overpriced, or underpriced.

But, the actual customer is not the buyer at the sale, but the family or whoever needs an estate settled. And those people might have ideas about how to run a sale that make everything difficult.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

This morning's flea market haul (Lugz 2020_39)

 

[Rickster]

Couple of garage sales this morning. Mitutoyo 8" Digital Caliper mm/SAE. Need to get a new battery to see if it's working. Some thick open end wrenches. I think they're called engineering wrenches??.....

 

[gpw_42]

Haha. Never ever in a gazillion years would anyone ever get away with cutting the line here. If you so much as get a little too close (and I don't mean COVID-19 close, I mean, "I was here first, back the **** off out of my personal collecting space" close) to someone who is already squared up at a flea market table here you will get a dirty look, at the very least, never mind trying to reach for something on a part of the table that may not even be right in front of the guy!

Lugz, nice haul of DBEs!

People here being...more tolerant...can cut both ways. As much as I'm still amazed by the tolerance for line cutting, people will get right up next to each other at a flea or an estate sale and reach across each other with an "excuse me" (not the gruff GTFO version). It pays to know how to preposition your elbows to defend your turf, so there's no need to throw an elbow

I'd be curious if JoCo has any thoughts on this. He's about an hour from here.

It's always interesting reading about the different ways we do the same thing in different parts of the country.

 

[Smokeshow69]

This morning's flea market haul (Lugz 2020_39)

Lugz, what brand are the offset dbe’s? Hinsdale?


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[Private Lugnutz]

Lugz, nice haul of DBEs!

Thanks. All of the wrenches are from the same vendor and they're all from the same house! They all have the same owner's marks. Whoever "GM" was, he had great taste in tools, he was wise enough to choose aesthetically pleasing stamps and locations, and, in a stunning example of coincidence, "G" is the first letter of my actual first name, and "M" is the first letter of my actual middle name. HAHA. The vendor is this young guy named Lee who has some good stuff from time to time. Same guy I bought the late 1800's jeweler's workbench with Parker vise from a few years ago. He is relatively new (started a few years ago) to the house clean-outs biz and small time, which I like. He's a little more selective than the larger outfits. He is also a beachcomber like me so he'll sit there whittling all the **** out of a gnarly driftwood stump in between dealing with customers. I was glad he came out because it was scattered showers again.

Lugz, what brand are the offset dbe’s? Hinsdale?

Believe it or not, I don't know. I didn't recognize them right off the bat and I am still researching them. 'Bout ready to give up, though. No mfgr's marking. CHROME-MOLYBDENUM compositional branding with cool little recessed forged-in size fields. It's a Catch-22 when this happens. One one hand, it's neat to find something that stumps you or your long-term memory. On the other, one never wants the stumping to last too long!

I am going to post more photos on the DBE thread.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Thanks. All of the wrenches are from the same vendor and they're all from the same house! They all have the same owner's marks. Whoever "GM" was, he had great taste in tools, he was wise enough to choose aesthetically pleasing stamps and locations, and, in a stunning example of coincidence, "G" is the first letter of my actual first name, and "M" is the first letter of my actual middle name. HAHA. The vendor is this young guy named Lee who has some good stuff from time to time. Same guy I bought the late 1800's jeweler's workbench with Parker vise from a few years ago. He is relatively new (started a few years ago) to the house clean-outs biz and small time, which I like. He's a little more selective than the larger outfits. He is also a beachcomber like me so he'll sit there whittling all the **** out of a gnarly driftwood stump in between dealing with customers. I was glad he came out because it was scattered showers again.


Believe it or not, I don't know. I didn't recognize them right off the bat and I am still researching them. 'Bout ready to give up, though. No mfgr's marking. CHROME-MOLYBDENUM compositional branding with cool little recessed forged-in size fields. It's a Catch-22 when this happens. One one hand, it's neat to find something that stumps you or your long-term memory. On the other, one never wants the stumping to last too long!

I am going to post more photos on the DBE thread.

Dbe thread links?


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[r_olson_06]

Thanks. All of the wrenches are from the same vendor and they're all from the same house! They all have the same owner's marks. Whoever "GM" was, he had great taste in tools, he was wise enough to choose aesthetically pleasing stamps and locations, and, in a stunning example of coincidence, "G" is the first letter of my actual first name, and "M" is the first letter of my actual middle name. HAHA. The vendor is this young guy named Lee who has some good stuff from time to time. Same guy I bought the late 1800's jeweler's workbench with Parker vise from a few years ago. He is relatively new (started a few years ago) to the house clean-outs biz and small time, which I like. He's a little more selective than the larger outfits. He is also a beachcomber like me so he'll sit there whittling all the **** out of a gnarly driftwood stump in between dealing with customers. I was glad he came out because it was scattered showers again.


Believe it or not, I don't know. I didn't recognize them right off the bat and I am still researching them. 'Bout ready to give up, though. No mfgr's marking. CHROME-MOLYBDENUM compositional branding with cool little recessed forged-in size fields. It's a Catch-22 when this happens. One one hand, it's neat to find something that stumps you or your long-term memory. On the other, one never wants the stumping to last too long!

I am going to post more photos on the DBE thread.

If they are the ones with the little recess and forged sizes I think Todd was doing research on them / collecting them. From what I remember when talking with him I think he mentioned that they may have been Truth sourced. Haven't talked to him in a while. Hope he is doing well.

Looking for a Round Beam Plomb 1068 Double Box End Wrench

 

[NewEdgePerf]

Charity yard sale score. Craftsman crown top logo metal tool box in great shape. Tools included were nothing great, but did include hex drive socket set and some kind of electrical puller


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[Private Lugnutz]

Dbe thread links?

I didn't post them yet. Sorry. I was cleaning up the pliers. Also Un-ID'd. I couldn't read the logo with a loupe at the flea and I can't read with a magnifying glass after clean-up. I was hoping Vlchek. The shape of it is the same as the Vlchek banner logo, but I have never seen that on a pair of pliers, and nothing about these pliers is really screaming Vlchek to me, either.

...I think he mentioned that they may have been Truth sourced. Haven't talked to him in a while. Hope he is doing well.

TRUTH, huh? Thanks for the lead. He is fine. We talk every week or so and he is just busy with his company/professional life.

 

[r_olson_06]

Charity yard sale score. Craftsman crown top logo metal tool box in great shape. Tools included were nothing great, but did include hex drive socket set and some kind of electrical puller


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

That's a fuse puller for pulling out fuses in fused disconnects.

I didn't post them yet. Sorry. I was cleaning up the pliers. Also Un-ID'd. I couldn't read the logo with a loupe at the flea and I can't read with a magnifying glass after clean-up. I was hoping Vlchek. The shape of it is the same as the Vlchek banner logo, but I have never seen that on a pair of pliers, and nothing about these pliers is really screaming Vlchek to me, either.


TRUTH, huh? Thanks for the lead. He is fine. We talk every week or so and he is just busy with his company/professional life.

That's cool. Glad he is doing well. He should know quite a bit on those wrenches if they are the ones I am thinking of. Tell him I said Hi.

Looking for a Round Beam Plomb 1068 Double Box End Wrench

 

[NewEdgePerf]

Replacement rawhide hammer faces. #1. Not sure how they are to attach to the hammer head.

New in box, but hard as a rock!


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[r_olson_06]

First Swap Meet All Year! Only about 15 vendors and only 2 with tools but still good. Made it to the last vendor empty handed up managed to pull these out for a $1 ea at the finish line.
Ford stamped hub cap wrench
Hudson marked s wrench
Chrome alloy round beam DBE. Never seen one of these before.
Early P&C DOE
Blue Bird Battery Pliers with a socket jaw
Saw set

Looking for a Round Beam Plomb 1068 Double Box End Wrench

 

[LesserSon]

Replacement rawhide hammer faces.
Not sure how they are to attach to the hammer head.

I think that’s been true for the manufacturers of rawhide hammers, too!
Your pic shows them on end. If they are long, maybe drill out a hole, shove a handle into it, pin it with a wire brad.
Or they could pass through a hollow hammer head like some lead hammers do.
If short, they probably screw onto a specialized hammer head.

New in box, but hard as a rock!

LesserDaughter2 recently followed directions she found online to soften and condition the faces of an intact hammer for jewelry work. Involved soaking in water and some sandpaper IIRC.

 

[steaks&anvils]

Replacement rawhide hammer faces. #1. Not sure how they are to attach to the hammer head.

New in box, but hard as a rock!


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

Great find.

Fits a "BASA" style hammer:

https://hammersource.com/soft-repla...plit-head-hammers/garland-split-head-hammers/

google "BASA HAMMER" and you will get lots of options.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Replacement rawhide hammer faces. #1. Not sure how they are to attach to the hammer head.

Hmmm. How many are in there???! (Just kidding. Wrong size.)

View media item 73996
View media item 73993
View media item 73995
View media item 73994

 

[Private Lugnutz]

google "BASA HAMMER" and you will get lots of options.

And you could click here for a good, fun GJ thread read down on the Vintage Board, including the history of them, from Greene, Tweed & Co to Garland.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Those funky pliers (bent thin nose gas & burner is the way I would describe them...) with the peeling cad or possibly light veneer of nickel plating turned out to be Wilde with a very early logo. See Pics 1 though 4.

I posted many more photos of the possibly TRUTH round shank deep DBEs (teaser Pic 5) in the DBE thread, and more of the Herbrand Van-Chrome combos (teaser Pic 6) in the Herbrand thread. See Index in Sticky on VB.

 

[steaks&anvils]

And you could click here for a good, fun GJ thread read down on the Vintage Board, including the history of them, from Greene, Tweed & Co to Garland.

Yep, I should have known. There's a thread for every tool, just got to find it!

FWIW, I have a BASA hammer too. Just needs rawhide or copper faces, when I ever get around to actually ordering some.