Williams S-52 Ratchet ??? Clon or Copy Cat

[Cybergrizzly]

Hello, Members: I recently acquired this so called Williams S-52 ratchet 1/2" drive, but I am not sure that it is a original J.H Williams S-52 Superratchet. Can anyone give some light and confirm if it is in fact or not a J.H. Williams tool and a real S-52 Superrratchet ? Any manufacturing or generation date ?

The engravings look like a newer generation but the head cover plate looks like an older superratchet.

Thanks in advance for your cooments.

 

[Cybergrizzly]

I know there are different engravings on the S-52, I guess depending on the date of manufacturing. Here are some pics I found on some clearly stated Williams S52s.

 

[dnschmidt]

Looks real to me. Besides who the hell would go to the enormous effort of trying to clone a Williams ratchet? I have several of them and love them. The difference in color of the head insert is common as the replacement parts don't have the same plating on them in my experience as the original as it appears that Williams plated the entire ratchet at the same time whereas the replacement repair kits all looked slightly different. My guess is that this ratchet had a repair kit put into it which is no big deal. I even have the special spanner it takes to do this that fits into the slots on the ring.

 

[3baygarage]

It's just an inbetweener. It's real.

 

[Cybergrizzly]

My concern is basically the engravings. The name of the company is not fully spelled out and the "Superratchet" is not stated.

 

[bob15]

My concern is basically the engravings. The name of the company is not fully spelled out and the "Superratchet" is not stated.

These links might help:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386846

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=366486

 

[lardy1]

The ones that have cast rather than stamped graphics are the older ones. Also, like the one in the photo, it says "Patent Pending". They were before the patent was approved. My oldest one has a screw in the center of the selector. I believe there were quite a few variations on these even in the early days of them.

 

[Cybergrizzly]

Good info here and in the links. So it is a good solid S-52 but rather close to the pre-Snap On time period.

I take this oportunity to ask about a Williams 3/8 drive B-54 Flex ratchet. Not much info. Any date of manufacturing? Is it a good ratchet ?

Thanks, Guys

 

[lardy1]

I have an old B-52 which is the 3/8" drive standard handle. I was lucky enough to find a second one with good innards to make it a good ratchet. I don't like using them anymore because replacement parts are very hard to find for the older ones. I have plenty of other ratchets that I can still get parts for. From my personal observation, the 1/2" are easier to find than the 3/8".

 

[LNKMK8]

Good info here and in the links. So it is a good solid S-52 but rather close to the pre-Snap On time period.

I take this oportunity to ask about a Williams 3/8 drive B-54 Flex ratchet. Not much info. Any date of manufacturing? Is it a good ratchet ?

Thanks, Guys

I see you found my photos... That ratchet looked and felt as good as any of the other older Williams ratchets that I have come across. Nothing stood as as being special about it, other than it was kind of an odd mix of older style/satin finish and newer smooth/bright chrome.

 

[exmaxima1]

Looks real to me. Besides who the hell would go to the enormous effort of trying to clone a Williams ratchet?.......

+1
I can't imagine a clone of that old Williams design

 

[Cybergrizzly]

Thanks. I assume the B-54 is a solid 3/8" drive ratchet, similar to the S-52 Superrachet. The heads look similar.

 

[Steve_P]

Looks real to me. Besides who the hell would go to the enormous effort of trying to clone a Williams ratchet? I have several of them and love them. The difference in color of the head insert is common as the replacement parts don't have the same plating on them in my experience as the original as it appears that Williams plated the entire ratchet at the same time whereas the replacement repair kits all looked slightly different. My guess is that this ratchet had a repair kit put into it which is no big deal. I even have the special spanner it takes to do this that fits into the slots on the ring.

Where'd you get the spanner from? A PN would be great. I found something that worked on the 3/8, but not the 1/2

 

[dnschmidt]

Steve P.

I bought it forty years ago from Plant Service Company in my hometown of Pittsburgh, PA when I bought several B52 and B54 ratchets and repair kits. As a Westinghouse employee I could buy these at the price Westinghouse paid.

 

[Steve_P]

Steve P.

I bought it forty years ago from Plant Service Company in my hometown of Pittsburgh, PA when I bought several B52 and B54 ratchets and repair kits. As a Westinghouse employee I could buy these at the price Westinghouse paid.

Thanks for the reply. Any chance it has a PN on it? I realize it's long discontinued, but maybe on ebay….

I found one to fit the 3/8 ratchet in my generic Sunex spanner socket set. But nothing for the 1/2. And moderate tapping the 1/2 with a tiny chisel or punch in the groove didn't work. I'm sure I could loosen it, but I didn't want to damage it; it was totally dry and I wanted to lube it. But not hack it to death in the process.

 

[dnschmidt]

Here's some pictures Steve. The close of is of the pins up side of the wrench which is the first picture. You can't see these part numbers from the overall view so I took a close up.

 

[DadsTools]

Hello, Members: I recently acquired this so called Williams S-52 ratchet 1/2" drive, but I am not sure that it is a original J.H Williams S-52 Superratchet. Can anyone give some light and confirm if it is in fact or not a J.H. Williams tool and a real S-52 Superrratchet ? Any manufacturing or generation date ?

The engravings look like a newer generation but the head cover plate looks like an older superratchet.

Thanks in advance for your cooments.

This is a real original Williams S-52. Back in the late 1970s, TRW, the owner of JH Williams, decided to re-position the Williams line to be marketed as an industrial tool brand. In a series of sequential marking changes over the next several years, the "& Co," was dropped, the "JH" was dropped, the 'superratchet' was dropped (maybe because it seemed tacky and inconsistent with an industrial buyer's interests, or just to reflect its change in marketing) and also changed the lettering font, the final form of the markings is what you see on your ratchet.

JH Williams Industrial was sold off by TRW in 1984, after which it was re-named Williams Hand Tools (IIRC) in 1986. It soon went bankrupt, and its physical assets were sold off in 1988. It's still unclear what was actually being made between 1984-86.

When Snap-on bought Williams in 1993, all that remained was the intellectual property. It acquired only the name, designs, trademarks (including the "super-" moniker) and patents. Snap-on re-designed the ratchet, which is why the SO rebuild kits do not work in the original Williams versions. All Snap-on Williams are made in its own facilities, since all the original Williams tooling and equipment was sold off years before the 1993 acquisition. Snap-on let the Superratchet trademark die in 1996. It appears the only "super" retained for use is on the Snap-on "Super Combo" wrenches. I suspect the the 'Superrench' and 'Superratchet' names seemed gimmicky and weird because of the spelling. Since those tags were discontinued by Williams itself near the end, there was probably no incentive to revive them.

 

[Steve_P]

Dnschmidt - thanks for the replies!

 

[mikebaker1129]

Dnschmidt - thanks for the replies!

I have the 1/2 wrench at work, I will see if mine has a part #
Mike

 

[lardy1]

Thanks for the reply. Any chance it has a PN on it? I realize it's long discontinued, but maybe on ebay….

I found one to fit the 3/8 ratchet in my generic Sunex spanner socket set. But nothing for the 1/2. And moderate tapping the 1/2 with a tiny chisel or punch in the groove didn't work. I'm sure I could loosen it, but I didn't want to damage it; it was totally dry and I wanted to lube it. But not hack it to death in the process.

I felt the same way. I didn't want to scar the old girl up. But I gave it the Kroil treatment and tapped on it occasionally for a couple days then used a very good pin punch to tap it. It came right out. I know it isn't proper but I lacked the tools.

Interestingly (to me, at least) my oldest version has holes straight into the face plate rather than that notched ring. A I mentioned earlier, there were variations of this concept even early on.

 

[Mike'smeatshop]

i found two old Williams S52 ratchets today and one is tore up inside. So if anyone needs some parts for one let me know if my parts will work.

 

[bonneyman]

I have an older Williams ratchet that needed a rebuild kit for 4-5 years. Finally found a donor rat to swap out parts (Had found a 3/8"er during that time so I have a pair). Love the design and action, though as stated above I don't use them much as parts are NLA and I have plenty of other ratchets.

I made a ring remover out of an old socket, and it works great with a breaker bar. Some time with a dremel and I'm good to go.

 

[F-22]

Besides who the hell would go to the enormous effort of trying to clone a Williams ratchet?

Indeed, this is such a unique forging and the mechanism... It would be ridiculously expensive to replicate it to such a level and then botch some very minor details.

 

[Pagemaker]

Looks real to me. Besides who the hell would go to the enormous effort of trying to clone a Williams ratchet? I have several of them and love them. The difference in color of the head insert is common as the replacement parts don't have the same plating on them in my experience as the original as it appears that Williams plated the entire ratchet at the same time whereas the replacement repair kits all looked slightly different. My guess is that this ratchet had a repair kit put into it which is no big deal. I even have the special spanner it takes to do this that fits into the slots on the ring.

Where did you find the spanner tool for the Williams super ratchet do you have a part number?

 

[dnschmidt]

Where did you find the spanner tool for the Williams super ratchet do you have a part number?

Bought it at least 40 years ago from a company in my home town of Pittsburgh, PA named Plant Service Company. Have both the 3/8 (part number B-52W and 1/2 inch versions (part number S-52W.

 

[ecotec]

This is a real original Williams S-52. Back in the late 1970s, TRW, the owner of JH Williams, decided to re-position the Williams line to be marketed as an industrial tool brand. In a series of sequential marking changes over the next several years, the "& Co," was dropped, the "JH" was dropped, the 'superratchet' was dropped (maybe because it seemed tacky and inconsistent with an industrial buyer's interests, or just to reflect its change in marketing) and also changed the lettering font, the final form of the markings is what you see on your ratchet.

JH Williams Industrial was sold off by TRW in 1984, after which it was re-named Williams Hand Tools (IIRC) in 1986. It soon went bankrupt, and its physical assets were sold off in 1988. It's still unclear what was actually being made between 1984-86.

When Snap-on bought Williams in 1993, all that remained was the intellectual property. It acquired only the name, designs, trademarks (including the "super-" moniker) and patents. Snap-on re-designed the ratchet, which is why the SO rebuild kits do not work in the original Williams versions. All Snap-on Williams are made in its own facilities, since all the original Williams tooling and equipment was sold off years before the 1993 acquisition. Snap-on let the Superratchet trademark die in 1996. It appears the only "super" retained for use is on the Snap-on "Super Combo" wrenches. I suspect the the 'Superrench' and 'Superratchet' names seemed gimmicky and weird because of the spelling. Since those tags were discontinued by Williams itself near the end, there was probably no incentive to revive them.

They still use Supercombo and Supertorque.

 

[NHtoolguy]

Bought it at least 40 years ago from a company in my home town of Pittsburgh, PA named Plant Service Company. Have both the 3/8 (part number B-52W and 1/2 inch versions (part number S-52W.

When I lived near Pittsburgh, the plant where I worked used the The Gage Company for shop supplies. That's where I purchased my new Williams tools in the early 80's. I, too, bought the disassembly spanners when they were still available new. But, I have seen some listed on ebay (some sellers don't know what they are, but the part numbers confirm the application).

 

[dnschmidt]

When I lived near Pittsburgh, the plant where I worked used the The Gage Company for shop supplies. That's where I purchased my new Williams tools in the early 80's. I, too, bought the disassembly spanners when they were still available new. But, I have seen some listed on ebay (some sellers don't know what they are, but the part numbers confirm the application).

I lived in Bloomfield from which I could easily walk to The Gage Company. Small world after all isn't it.