Garage Lift Emergency

[rlitman]

Glad you got it down. The problem is fundamental to that style lift. It is what it is, 4 independent legs sliding through moment connections in a flexible platform. Nothing anybody says will change what it actually is.

It is really 100% necessary not to lower it without carefully watching to see all 4 locks remain released the entire time. Bolting it down will simply damage it more in this situation, but it does contribute to rigidity, which is good, when it’s up and you’re not having an emergency. If I had that lift I would bolt it down, but I will warn you that it won’t help if you do this again, and it’ll still be up to you to watch it.

or, plan B:
1. Hire an engineer
2. Carefully deconstruct the entire garage
3. …..

I am relieved that nobody blamed the manufacture yet, I will say that.

There are two possible causes for this issue. One is a single corner lock not disengaging, and yes, in that case, bolting it down would not make a huge difference.

The more likely cause is one corner out of parallel with the others. Bolted down after being properly plumbed with shims, this won't happen. Sitting on the floor, the slightest flex in the lift can easily cause this. With a corner out of plumb, the slider can easily get bound up, and well, the results are above.

 

[finn]

There are two possible causes for this issue. One is a single corner lock not disengaging, and yes, in that case, bolting it down would not make a huge difference.

The more likely cause is one corner out of parallel with the others. Bolted down after being properly plumbed with shims, this won't happen. Sitting on the floor, the slightest flex in the lift can easily cause this. With a corner out of plumb, the slider can easily get bound up, and well, the results are above.

I disagree. This wasn’t a slider itself getting hung up. That would have taken an inordinate amount of floor being out of plumb, not something minor, and having unpinned legs actually would be self correcting, based on my observation of how a four lift reacts upon initial assembly or after moving it to a new location. The legs can be wildly out of plumb in those conditions, but the first cycle or two will cause the legs to self center. Pinning the legs to the floor, on the other hand, without cycling the lift first, would lead to binding.

It was clearly one of the latching dogs failing to release in this case, based on how I have seen lifts react to this situation. It can happen with two or four post lifts.

 

[rlitman]

I disagree. This wasn’t a slider itself getting hung up. That would have taken an inordinate amount of floor being out of plumb, not something minor, and having unpinned legs actually would be self correcting, based on my observation of how a four lift reacts upon initial assembly or after moving it to a new location...

Tell that to my neighbor ho had his Cobra stuck in the air for this reason.

 

[finn]

Tell that to my neighbor ho had his Cobra stuck in the air for this reason.

A 4x4 and a 12 lb sledge would have taken care of that in three minutes easily.

A cobra weighs what, 2400 lb? That’s 600 lb per post max.

 

[TheShrine]

Glad you got it down safely!

I had a similar problem with my 2 - Poster. One of my hydraulic cylinders blew a seal at the top position. Luckily it was going down on the locks when it blew! It was "safe" while in the resting position but, of course, it could not stay there. It had to come down ... hopefully, safely!

I won't go into what I did to address my situation but I will give a little advice. Whether you understand what caused your issue or whether you feel you are equipped to fix such issues NOW is the time to seek out the "PRO" assistance/advice that so many posters suggested.

When my lift failed I had no problem finding a "PRO" with lift experience. Ultimately, I found NO ONE willing to take the risk/liability if it didn't go right. There were a lot of professional "If it was me ...." answers but NO ONE willing to take the professional risk. While I fully understood their positions I still had a car in the air!! I eventually succeeded in safely lowering the car and cleaning the hydraulic fluid off of everything!!

With all of that: my advice is, even though your lift issue appears to be behind you, find several reliable "PROs" now so if it happens again you are ready. Hopefully it does not happen again but .......

Good luck and stay safe!

 

[66Caprice]

Lock's also get hung up if the lift is not brought up high enough to get the weight off all of the locks.

 

[sweetk30]

i use to run a rollback tow truck and a few times i had to get a vehicle off a 4post lift that broke . just backed up and made my bed match the best possible and winched it back to the truck .

i even delivered a few and put them on a 4 post lift be it on the ground .

just a idea for anyone else who has a problem like this and needs the vehicle off the lift .

 

[Poolshark314]

I'm very glad you got the car down safely and the Jag is intact! Welcome to the forum by the way! Would it be worth making tape outlines on the floor around each post once it is squared up again so you could see if the legs walk in the future out of the original spots? That seems logical to me

 

[mike93lx]

looks like you only have one big bolt holding each leg at the bottom to the pad. you might want to check into finding a way to tie the post tops together with heavy duty cable or c-channel

Randomly adding structure is not the answer

 

[racecougar]

On the "bolt it down" topic: if you want to retain the ability to move a 4-post around your shop but bolt it down while in use, these are what I recommend.

Red Head 1/2 in. x 2 in. Zinc-Plated Steel Concrete Drop-In Anchor (1-Pack) 50126 - The Home Depot

Get the Red Head 1/2 in. x 5/8 in. Steel Concrete Drop-In Anchor 50126, metal anchor is crafted with steel for strength and can be installed below concrete surfaces at The Home Depot

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When you pull the bolts to move the lift, you're left with nothing protruding from the floor. When you bolt it down, these anchors provide plenty of strength/rigidity. I only use two bolts/anchors per column on my 9K 4-post.


I'll echo what others have said, when lowering, you absolutely have to hold the lock rod all the way open and focus on ensuring that all four corners are lowering. The only way something like this happens (to this extreme extent) is by inattention when lowering the lift.

 

[ybnormal]

Randomly adding structure is not the answer

and what is random about specifically tying the post tops together? it may not be the answer to fixing it, but it certainly is an answer to preventing it from happening that badly again. if one post starts to tilt out, the other two posts it is connected to will prevent it from catastrophically collapsing.
a close examination of the OPs lift pics clearly show that there are several bolt holes located around the perimeter of each column pad that were not utilized.

 

[finn]

and what is random about specifically tying the post tops together? it may not be the answer to fixing it, but it certainly is an answer to preventing it from happening that badly again. if one post starts to tilt out, the other two posts it is connected to will prevent it from catastrophically collapsing.
a close examination of the OPs lift pics clearly show that there are several bolt holes located around the perimeter of each column pad that were not utilized.

The circled holes are there to bolt down the lift if the owner decides portability isn’t important to him. The lift is sold as a portable unit, as are most other consumer oriented four post lifts.

Larger commercial lifts aren’t portable, nor do they all lift high enough to use as a parking lift.

In this case, yes, bolting the lift down may have stopped the ramps from tilting that much, but the subsequently overloaded column could have buckled and totally collapsed, too, causing even more carnage..

The failure mode here is entirely latches that failed to release, for one reason or another, and what you see is the collateral effect. Bolting wouldn’t have anything to do with the latches failing to release.

Look for root cause, not collateral damage.

Sort of like when a rod exits the side of a crankcase and windows it. The crankcase didn’t cause the failure, the rod broke because the piston seized in the bore, or the bearing failed on the crankshaft.

The hole in the block was collateral damage.

In this case, the column that is askew is collateral damage.

 

[ace10]

Step 1: Hire an engineer
Step 2: Carefully deconstruct the garage

Step 3: Redesign the entire 4 post lift


(I will continue to add steps as this thread reaches new levels of absurdity)

 

[ybnormal]

The circled holes are there to bolt down the lift if the owner decides portability isn’t important to him. The lift is sold as a portable unit, as are most other consumer oriented four post lifts.

Larger commercial lifts aren’t portable, nor do they all lift high enough to use as a parking lift.

In this case, yes, bolting the lift down may have stopped the ramps from tilting that much, but the subsequently overloaded column could have buckled and totally collapsed, too, causing even more carnage..

The failure mode here is entirely latches that failed to release, for one reason or another, and what you see is the collateral effect. Bolting wouldn’t have anything to do with the latches failing to release.

Look for root cause, not collateral damage.

Sort of like when a rod exits the side of a crankcase and windows it. The crankcase didn’t cause the failure, the rod broke because the piston seized in the bore, or the bearing failed on the crankshaft.

The hole in the block was collateral damage.

In this case, the column that is askew is collateral damage.

I never said not bolting down the corners contributed to the cause or would have prevented it from collapsing like it did. I specifically stipulated that tying the tops of the posts together would help prevent "from happening that badly again." and I stand by that statement. Tying the post tops together would have lent additional torsional strength at the top so that if it DID happen, the collateral damage to the post would not have been nearly as bad in my opinion.

 

[Viper98912]

I was just going to say the same as finn; I would rather the columns move around on me when buckling, rather than tying them down and forcing them to potentially completely kink and completely fail, or the welds to the plates break. I'll take bending and sliding any day than a complete failure because of bolting it down.

 

[finn]

I never said not bolting down the corners contributed to the cause or would have prevented it from collapsing like it did. I specifically stipulated that tying the tops of the posts together would help prevent "from happening that badly again." and I stand by that statement. Tying the post tops together would have lent additional torsional strength at the top so that if it DID happen, the collateral damage to the post would not have been nearly as bad in my opinion.

You’re right, but the market is very competitive, and no vendor would ad two more beams to cover a what if.

Actually, to follow your line of thinking, they would have to a another two longitudinal beams, I e four total.

At that point, they would have the safest lift on the market that no one would buy.

Well, nobody unless it said Mohawk on it.
Actually, there are, or were, lifts on the market with at least longitudinal overhead braces, for commercial use. Don’t know if they’re still available, or were priced out of the market. I think my local Jeep has an ancient four poster like that, a relic from the fifties.

Engineering is a profession with many boundaries and conflicts.

 

[ybnormal]

You’re right, but the market is very competitive, and no vendor would ad two more beams to cover a what if.

correct, but I would install it on my own initiative. as you can see from the pic below the stop of each post has a nice thick bracket. weld on an additional bracket with drilled holes for looping a steel cable thru from corner to corner (in a square, obviously can't do an X)
steel cable is fairly cheap for the return on safety and it doesn't have to be huge cables

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1/16″​	8.5​	500​	500​	​
3/32″​	20​	1200​	1200​	​
1/8″​	35​	2100​	2100​	1780​
5/32″​	55​	3300​	3300​	2800​
3/16″​	77​	4700​	4700​	4000​
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1/4″​	135​	8200​	8200​	6900​

Actually, to follow your line of thinking, they would have to a another two longitudinal beams, I e four total.

which is what I initially stated, use cable or welded c-channel

Actually, there are, or were, lifts on the market with at least longitudinal overhead braces, for commercial use.

I have seen those, usually on a 2 poster lift

Engineering is a profession with many boundaries and conflicts.

no disagreement there

 

[landlord30]

So much bad information in this thread.

Finn had it right "The failure mode here is entirely latches that failed to release, for one reason or another, and what you see is the collateral effect. Bolting wouldn’t have anything to do with the latches failing to release."

I've owned a 4 post lift for almost 25 years now. I've had this happen to me several times, but only the first time was as bad as this. After that incident you learn to pay attention when lowering. Going up is more likely when you can have a cable break, but coming down is when a latch can hang up. If you keep lowering without noticing this, you get what happened to the OP.

My lift is not bolted down and has no other "fixtures" attached. Just sits the way the manufacturer built it.

 

[IMXCITD]

Glad it all worked out. I wouldn't bolt it down. Just watch all four corners when lowering. If it happens again(and it will)...raise back up to level out and make sure all four corners are unlocked.

 

[racecougar]

ybnormal, do you have a 4-post lift? The bracing you're suggesting would prevent the use of the lift for any vehicle longer than the ramps. It would also prevent you from being able to open the doors of any vehicle on the lift whilst raised.

Operate the lift properly (by paying attention), and this whole thread doesn't even exist.

The lift in the photo below is both wider and longer than the OP's lift.

 

[stingry]

Operate the lift properly (by paying attention), and this whole thread doesn't even exist.

There you go!! That says it all!!!!!

 

[Denwood]

Speaking from experience on a near disastrous two post incident (and working in a commercial garage doing service work a long time back)....the reminder is there to watch carefully (like crouch down and watch) to make sure nothing is hung up where you can't see it. This applies to both lift and lower. If something hangs up and vehicle slips off the lift points (2 post) or slips on a ramp (4 post) things go from bad to worse very quickly.

For the 2 poster, I also lift an inch, check the lift points and give the car a shove or two to make sure it's stable on the lift points. Insist on any bystanders moving well away from the vehicle on lift/lower. Assume there will be a problem and you'll be ready for it.

Follow the steps every time you lift and remain completely focused on monitoring...don't let a random conversation distract.

To the OP, glad you got it resolved with no damage!

 

[FredWanaker]

after reading this thread and the posturing everyone has about the how and why, all I can say is that whomever designed the lift, and did the engineering of it needs to go back and read the chapter again on Murphy's Law. It was not engineered to allow for something as simple as a latch failure.

 

[boatshoes]

after reading this thread and the posturing everyone has about the how and why, all I can say is that whomever designed the lift, and did the engineering of it needs to go back and read the chapter again on Murphy's Law. It was not engineered to allow for something as simple as a latch failure.

It's not a baby crib. It's a dangerous machine and should be treated as such. You won't find a lift manual that doesn't talk about "operation only by trained operators" and visual & functional checks of the safety locks before, during, and after operation.

 

[ybnormal]

ybnormal, do you have a 4-post lift? The bracing you're suggesting would prevent the use of the lift for any vehicle longer than the ramps. It would also prevent you from being able to open the doors of any vehicle on the lift whilst raised.

yes, but if you are only using it for a large vehicle. let's use some common sense here, the suggested mod is not for everybody and won't work in all situations. for example, it wouldn't work on my old mid-60' Impalas as big as they are. but on a small MG or Sunbeam Tiger or Porsche?
there's even this clever solution I saw in Germany almost 30 yrs ago

Duplex garages from KLAUS Multiparking: Your partner for parking solutions

A duplex garage offers additional parking spaces for two to six vehicles, even where space is limited. Discover our double parkers.

multiparking.com

Operate the lift properly (by paying attention), and this whole thread doesn't even exist.

true

 

[05snopro440]

yes, but if you are only using it for a large vehicle. let's use some common sense here, the suggested mod is not for everybody and won't work in all situations. for example, it wouldn't work on my old mid-60' Impalas as big as they are. but on a small MG or Sunbeam Tiger or Porsche?
there's even this clever solution I saw in Germany almost 30 yrs ago

Duplex garages from KLAUS Multiparking: Your partner for parking solutions

A duplex garage offers additional parking spaces for two to six vehicles, even where space is limited. Discover our double parkers.

multiparking.com

true

Okay, since you suggested it lets use some common sense.

First, the lift is designed to not be bolted down. It's not necessary for stability or function. I have the same lift that I inherited from the previous owner of my property, and my experience with lifts was mainly from my dad's automotive shop where all lifts were bolted down. The product manual for this lift states that unless you're using the lift repeatedly in a service shop type environment daily, it isn't necessary to bolt it down. You also aren't supposed to bolt it down if the concrete isn't of sufficient thickness or it's too close to an expansion joint or edge in the concrete. I work under mine that isn't bolted down, mechanic work on my vintage cars, and it's stable. However, the manual does state how to properly inspect and maintain it. In fact, when I got my place the lock release rods on my lift were improperly adjusted, which I discovered by operating the lift without weight on it and inspecting and adjusting it before I ever put a vehicle on it.

Second, modifying a structural lift by adding members you think will help without consulting an engineer (ideally the manufacturer) is ill-advised. Not only are you adding weight to the lift, but you could even change the way that the columns are loaded, since the tops of them are not designed to be fixed and now they are. Going rogue to redesign the lift is actually potentially much more dangerous than using the lift within its designed parameters.

Third, let's not turn this into something it's not by blaming the installation or design of the lift or suggesting modifications. There's no reason when lowering a vehicle that if you're using common sense, paying attention, and have read the manual, you would lower the vehicle as far as shown in the OP's photos without first correcting the problem. If it's bolted down, you're putting bending stresses into the columns, which is obviously also bad. This was not a lift failure of any components, design, or manufacturing, this was plain and simple operator error. Attaching the tops of the columns together would not cause the operator to pay attention. If anything, let's hope this was a wake-up call for the OP that lifts are dangerous and demand respect.

I've experienced cable failure on a 2-post with a 6,000 lb truck on it 3 feet in the air. That was a learning experience to lower the lift safely with the truck on it. Learning to respect these for what they are, heavy and dangerous machinery, is important.

 

[05snopro440]

It's not a baby crib. It's a dangerous machine and should be treated as such. You won't find a lift manual that doesn't talk about "operation only by trained operators" and visual & functional checks of the safety locks before, during, and after operation.

Exactly!

 

[FredWanaker]

what does baby crib have to do with Murphy's law? The lift broke and almost took a car with it. The consensus was that the latch was bad. Personally I don't accept the notion that all we can have is crappy lifts that are supposed to break and drop a car.

 

[mike93lx]

what does baby crib have to do with Murphy's law? The lift broke and almost took a car with it. The consensus was that the latch was bad. Personally I don't accept the notion that all we can have is crappy lifts that are supposed to break and drop a car.

The lift didn't break. The owner almost broke it. Big difference.

The owner didn't pay attention and it caused it to almost fail.

 

[ace10]

what does baby crib have to do with Murphy's law? The lift broke and almost took a car with it. The consensus was that the latch was bad. Personally I don't accept the notion that all we can have is crappy lifts that are supposed to break and drop a car.

The lift didn't break. If it had, then the OP wouldn't have been able to safely raise the vehicle back up and then safely lower it to the ground.

First and principally, the condition shown in the first post was operator error.
There is ZERO reason for a lift to be allowed to take on that much lean. To such an extent that the ramp fell off the runway.
You run the lift down, and you watch for smooth operation. If there are doubts. Stop and inspect each corner.

We don't know what the root cause of the issue was. Could be one of many misadjustments. Could be lubrication. I don't have that design, so I can't speak to the specics.

But two of my three four posts lifts have gotten hung up. And they've all required cable adjustment post installation.


I really don't get why there is any confusion on this situation.

 

[FredWanaker]

I really don't get why there is any confusion on this situation.

Easy, we weren't there, and everyone is speculating. If you sit down in a chair and the back legs fall out from under you, someone may speculate you were leaning back. Someone else may speculate that the chair wasn't glued right or a leg broken. Someone else may speculate that you were too heavy. Product liability cases determine who is at fault. Know why Nishiki stopped selling nice bicycles in the US many years ago. Some kid hit a parked car at night cause he had no light on the bike and there were no warning labels that he needed a light at night. The bike store and Nishiki lost the case. It is stupid but Murphy has a funny way of presenting himself. whether right or wrong, he is always present.

 

[05snopro440]

what does baby crib have to do with Murphy's law? The lift broke and almost took a car with it. The consensus was that the latch was bad. Personally I don't accept the notion that all we can have is crappy lifts that are supposed to break and drop a car.

The lift didn't break! I have the same brand of lift, when I got mine with the purchase of my home the locks and cables were not properly adjusted by the previous owner. I did this and all other required adjustments and maintenance before ever lifting a car with it.

It's a good lift, and Direct Lifts are ALI certified while many hobbyist lifts aren't. Again, this was operator error, not lift failure.

 

[ace10]

Easy, we weren't there, and everyone is speculating. If you sit down in a chair and the back legs fall out from under you, someone may speculate you were leaning back. Someone else may speculate that the chair wasn't glued right or a leg broken. Someone else may speculate that you were too heavy. Product liability cases determine who is at fault. Know why Nishiki stopped selling nice bicycles in the US many years ago. Some kid hit a parked car at night cause he had no light on the bike and there were no warning labels that he needed a light at night. The bike store and Nishiki lost the case. It is stupid but Murphy has a funny way of presenting himself. whether right or wrong, he is always present.

Are you maintaining that there is something actually broken on the lift?
If so, what visual evidence or statements from the OP support that position.

 

[FredWanaker]

no - I am maintaining that there is a lot of speculating going on as to the cause. I haven't seen anyone who is qualified to adjust that lift offer to go over and check it out.

 

[ssffnomad]

Junk 4 Post Lift = Bolt it Down.
Cant Post Here When You Are DEAD

 

[finn]

Junk 4 Post Lift = Bolt it Down.
Cant Post Here When You Are DEAD

Can’t move it when it’s bolted down, and mobility is one of the hallmarks of a portable home lift.

For commercial use, buy a commercial lift.

 

[05snopro440]

Junk 4 Post Lift = Bolt it Down.
Cant Post Here When You Are DEAD

Direct Lift brand lifts are ALI certified, many of the hobby "junk" lifts that you're referring to are not. Also, Direct Lifts are made by Rotary, one of the top manufacturers of commercial automotive lifts. So no, it's not a "junk" lift, that's a bit of a jump to conclusions.

I'm curious why you capitalized the first letter of every word, but it kind of matches the uninformed opinion in the post.

 

[racecougar]

yes, but if you are only using it for a large vehicle. let's use some common sense here, the suggested mod is not for everybody and won't work in all situations. for example, it wouldn't work on my old mid-60' Impalas as big as they are. but on a small MG or Sunbeam Tiger or Porsche?

So you're suggesting that the OP install a completely un-engineered beam between all four posts, and then remove as needed when using the lift to raise any vehicle larger than a little two-seater? "Common sense" would direct one to simply pay attention when raising and lowering the lift and leave the design as it was intended by the OEM. Or maybe that has become "uncommon sense".

Again, this is operator error, not a lift failure.

 

[ludakris04]

I would just add "check all locks have released" and "lift is lowering flat" to your list of to-do when operating the lift.

When I was 19 I worked at a dealer, I had changed the oil on a crew cab long bed 3500 on a huge 4 post lift.
I was carelessly lowering it when multiple techs from across the shop started yelling at me.
The locks on the other side of the lift did not disengage. I was only lowering the side closest to me... it could have been real bad..

 

[ybnormal]

So you're suggesting that the OP install a completely un-engineered beam between all four posts, and then remove as needed when using the lift to raise any vehicle larger than a little two-seater? "Common sense" would direct one to simply pay attention when raising and lowering the lift and leave the design as it was intended by the OEM. Or maybe that has become "uncommon sense".

Again, this is operator error, not a lift failure.

not even going to bother responding to this when I already said use "common sense"