mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
It's 36" in front and 6'6" high. 30" total width, including the panel
Swapping Guts on Homeline Panel
- Thread starter Mr onetwo
- Start date
Higgins
Well-known member
Thanks !!! Couldn't remember. However, the inspectors in IL do check for that on inspections! It seams the only ones they seamed to leave alone were the ones built by Levitt?? back in the early 50's and were more or less prefab with the panel in a kitchen closet!
Jim greengo
Well-known member
At what point in my post did I say anything bad about homeline panels?
They've been my go to panel for residential work since the early 90s.
I said service panels in coat/clothes closets are generally frowned upon unless it's an origional install to the house when built.
I said the homeline panel was probably a change out at some point,and probably wouldnt be allowed if it was inspected.
I was at an open house at our local "sq d" supply house at the time(the old electric fixture and supply in omaha)Unfortunately, electrical Codes have little control what homeowners and other trades do after the fact.
Homeline in '03? I was still installing FPE panels... Homeline (that replaced it) hadn't come out yet.
A rep from sq d was talking to me about their newer residential line,"home line".
That would of been around 95 maybe I'm thinking at the latest.
So they've been in our area for close to 30 years atleast that I've used them.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I didn't say you did. I just asked a question. Specifically calling out the panel type does make it feel that it is focus of your point though.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
It's 30" wide total, not left and right. It's also 36" in front (depth). What does that have to do with closets? I've seen bedroom closets bigger than my living room, but that doesn't mean a panel can be there.
Steve.S
Well-known member
I replaced our fusebox with a 200a Homeline panel in 2000.Unfortunately, electrical Codes have little control what homeowners and other trades do after the fact.
Homeline in '03? I was still installing FPE panels... Homeline (that replaced it) hadn't come out yet.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
A clothes closet is one that has shelves or poles, hooks, or similar things for hanging clothes.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
If the intended use is as a utility closet and you have the clearances, you should be ok. Just get rid of the coats and any clothes rods for a few minutes.
Innovate1
Well-known member
Yep. No reason to switch the main. In that location it's just a shutoff not overcurrent protection. Protection is the feeding breaker.
Doing it is not an issue I think, but when times comes with UL and warranty it's probably out the door... do it right and replace it with a similar panel size is my IMHO.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I promise I am not trying to be snarky. Is that definition universally or near-univerally agreed upon by inspectors? Or is it defined as such in the NEC?
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Here is the definition, right out of the 2020 NEC. There is no definition of any other type of closet, so if it's not a clothes closet, and the clearances are there, a panel can be in a closet.
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thanks
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
It wasnt permitted to store clothes even in 2009 which means the inspector missed it....
doesnt matter. its a violation whether the inspector sees it or not.I guarantee they won't be there when the inspector shows up.
Article 100, chapter 1
Clothes Closet: a nonhabitable room or space intended primarily for storage of garments and apparel.
not quite. its 30" side to side (doesnt have to be centered), 36" in front of panel, and 6.5' floor to ceiling
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sparky 1971
Well-known member
It doesn't sound to me like the intended use for the closet was for storing clothes. He said it's a utility closet that has a few coats hanging in it. What I refer to as a residential utility closet has the furnace and water heater in it also. I don't know if this is the case, but he did say it's a slab house so the mechanical has to go somewhere. That somewhere could be the attic, but that's a real ***** for the next guy.
walta
Well-known member
What is the point of this post? Before you posted you had made up your mind exactly what and how you are going to do.
With master electrician friend that stuck you with an antiquated undersized panel installed in a location so tight replacement is impossible who need enemies.
Installing a panel 13 short years ago that cannot accept tandem breaker is some very poor judgment for a master.
20 slots is barely enough for a kitchen today no less the full house more poor judgment for a master in my opinion.
Installing a panel in a way that makes it impossible to replace equals more poor judgment for a master.
Is there a bed or exterior door within 15 feet of this closet?
Where is the master now?
Walta
With master electrician friend that stuck you with an antiquated undersized panel installed in a location so tight replacement is impossible who need enemies.
Installing a panel 13 short years ago that cannot accept tandem breaker is some very poor judgment for a master.
20 slots is barely enough for a kitchen today no less the full house more poor judgment for a master in my opinion.
Installing a panel in a way that makes it impossible to replace equals more poor judgment for a master.
Is there a bed or exterior door within 15 feet of this closet?
Where is the master now?
Walta
mmmm....the closet in question is going to contain all the cat6 stuff I am adding to the house as it makes the most sense, so the coats and shoes are actually going to go into the addition space.The panels both in the garage and house have been more than adequate until adding 2 circuits for heat pumps and adding the surge breaker.Those panels were sold by our local electrical wholesaler at the time.Homeline tandem breakers were available in 2009. I don't know why we didn't buy different panels.Sq D made these exact panels until Jan 23,2021....why if they are so antiquated?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Hold on. Your friend didn't future proof the install? How dare he! Complete hack scumbag.
I am am sure there was no budget that he was keeping to, either. He just wanted to screw you and he won.
At least rehashing the past is helpful.
I am am sure there was no budget that he was keeping to, either. He just wanted to screw you and he won.
At least rehashing the past is helpful.
20 spaces just for the kitchen 
As I think back Sq D had a deal going and I got 2 panels and a bunch of breakers as a value pak for like $50. My friend is now retired and is one of the most honest and nice guys you could ever meet. Until the heat pumps everything has been just fine.
As I think back Sq D had a deal going and I got 2 panels and a bunch of breakers as a value pak for like $50. My friend is now retired and is one of the most honest and nice guys you could ever meet. Until the heat pumps everything has been just fine.csp
Well-known member
Whodathunkit, a GJ thread totally hijacked on semantics.
The word "closet" isn't exclusive to storage of clothing.
The word "closet" isn't exclusive to storage of clothing.
mark-NJ
Well-known member
I'll toss this in just for grins: Closet or not, why would anyone use a Homeline panel in their house (likely their largest investment) when a QO panel is only a few bucks more?
QO: 22K AIC vs. 10K on a Homeline
QO: silver-plated copper bus, vs. aluminum on a Homeline
It's your house, I suppose. As my friend likes to say, "Got a $20 brain? Buy a $20 helmet..."
QO: 22K AIC vs. 10K on a Homeline
QO: silver-plated copper bus, vs. aluminum on a Homeline
It's your house, I suppose. As my friend likes to say, "Got a $20 brain? Buy a $20 helmet..."
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You are implying that homeline is bad, which is incorrect. You can always spend more money on a project.
This is also crixizing decisions made 20 years ago...super productive
mark-NJ
Well-known member
I'm implying no such thing. I'm simply stating that, as a comparison, Sq.D (Schneider) offers a far superior product for not a lot more. In my opinion, the Homeline serves one purpose only: cheapening a BOM's total cost. Again, my opinion: is the electrical infrastructure of one's house the place to make shortcuts?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
What problems have been encountered with homeline? Sure, in theory, qo is better. But what is the practical impact?
House fires? Higher power bills? Earlier failures?
Legitimately curious. I have never bought Homeline, but have two 200a panels in my house without issue for almost 20 years
mark-NJ
Well-known member
Aluminum. It simply doesn't play nicely with other conductor materials without special treatments. Snapping on a (dissimilar metal) QO breaker isn't, in my view, a great idea when an alternative exists.
And I have, indeed, removed QO breakers from Homeline panels and seen signs of electrolysis.
And I have, indeed, removed QO breakers from Homeline panels and seen signs of electrolysis.
Not really impressed with Homeline but ANYTHING is better then Eaton BR, even GE, if you see a BR panel, you have a **** electrical job in front of you, besides the difference between QO & HOM breakers, Homeline panels have a aluminum bus, until Eaton cheapened up the CH panels they were my preferred panel, now either Eaton CH, SQ D QO, or Siemens copper bussed panels. But back to Homeline, they were introduced to be more competitive in the residential market which is why they are only single phase, no 3 phase, and no QO all in ones, meter mains anymore, Eaton, & Siemens, responded by introducing UL classified breakers for QO panels.
That I would like to see, QO breakers are 3/4" wide, Homeline is 1" wide and they clip to the bus quite differently.
mark-NJ
Well-known member
^^^
Correct. I was trying to type while cooking dinner, and....woops. "QO" came out of my brain & down to my fingers.
That said, I have seen such corrosion when Homeline breakers (with clips that are a dissimilar metal) are removed from Homeline panels. I've seen it with my own eyes..
Correct. I was trying to type while cooking dinner, and....woops. "QO" came out of my brain & down to my fingers.
That said, I have seen such corrosion when Homeline breakers (with clips that are a dissimilar metal) are removed from Homeline panels. I've seen it with my own eyes..
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I haven't pulled every breaker ,but I have moved a bunch and they all look clean to me. I guess anything is possible. Thankfully we can all spend out money how we want. I'll gladly take a donation for an upgrade, though
Innovate1
Well-known member
Sure you are. "why would anyone use a Homeline panel in their house" is pretty clear. You keep dancing around and changing what you are saying. "I was busy cooking..." What a bunch of bs. Homeline is a decent panel. It's not top of the line, I'll give you that.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I've yet to see a failure on a Homeline panel other than a bad main out of the box. The bus in a Homeline is aluminum, but it has the same tin coating (not silver) as a QO. I put a 200 amp Homeline in my own house. Sure, a QO or copper Siemens would have been better, but it was the summer of the 'Rona and some things were next to impossible to find. When it's all said and done, I'm not going to lose a bit of sleep over it.
grounded-b
Well-known member
No, the NEC requires a 30" wide clear space in front of the panel. It does not have to be centered on the panel, a 16" wide panel could have it's working space in front of it and 14" to the right ( or left ). The working space in front of a panel is 36" for up to 150V to ground conditions. NEC 110.26(A)(1) and (2)
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I wonder how many times a post needs to be refuted/corrected
If I abandon the old panel in the closet and install a new panel on the other side of the wall and connect the 2 boxes with conduit, could I move the power wires with breakers to the new location and leave the grounds and neutrals in the old can? They would be connected with full size conductors. Essentially using the old panel as a junction box. This would move the panel to a much better location. I would like to avoid moving the grounds and neutrals if it is permitted.
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
How can you move all of the branch circuit hots but not the neutrals and grounds?
If it was my house, I would definitely not want it split like that, regardless of what code allowed
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
So you are talking about pigtailing every wire and connecting to a new panel.
That would be a nightmare