Builder built garage too short. What penalty?

[Half-fast eddie]

Bonds aren't an insurance policy and can't be cancelled. They are bought and paid for and remain in effect for the duration the project.

If for some reason the bond lapses, the bonding company notifies the beneficiary.

 

[ConCretin]

If for some reason the bond lapses, the bonding company notifies the beneficiary.

It's never come up in my experience so I'd actually have to read one of the darn things but I can't imagine a scenario where a bond would actually lapse. A performance and payment bond is a promise by a third party to complete the job and pay the bills if the contractor fails to do either. If you pay for a bond on your project, it's theoretically a guarantee that your project will be completed and all the bills will be paid protecting you from liens.

The bond fee is paid before the bond is issued and I'm not aware of any circumstance that would let the bond issuer off the hook. It's not like insurance where there are policy limits and cancellation of the premium is not paid. The bonding company steps in to literally fulfill the obligations of the named contractor whatever it costs. This is why bonding companies carefully vet contractors and typically require them to indemnify the bonding company with all business AND personal assets.

Bonds are pricey. As a sub we pay (and pass along) a fee of 1 to 2%. This adds up over the entire project especially when you consider most of the contractor's you use probably don't have a bonding program and the ones that are tend to be more expensive to begin with. Most residential owners don't have enough knowledge of the risks or the willingness to pay the price to mitigate them so bonds are rare.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

Willys ... you are correct. Bond cancellations are rare. We have a clause in our boilerplate tha5 says the GC must be bondable, and if we require a bond for a project then the cost gets added to the cost of the project.

 

[billconner]

So those that really understand bonds, with a bond - which would have cost the owner about what the lift cost - would the bonding company have rebuilt this to the 13' clear?

My experience as a designer is the 2 or 3 times the bonding company has had to step in, they only bring the best and finish the work very well, but finished, not torn out and rebuilt to different dimensions.

 

[mike93lx]

So those that really understand bonds, with a bond - which would have cost the owner about what the lift cost - would the bonding company have rebuilt this to the 13' clear?

My experience as a designer is the 2 or 3 times the bonding company has had to step in, they only bring the best and finish the work very well, but finished, not torn out and rebuilt to different dimensions.

But is the project really complete if it wasn't done to spec?

 

[quickfarms]

But is the project really complete if it wasn't done to spec?

Since the garage is complete, even though not to plans, it was signed off by the inspector and the house addition was built on top of it. So in this case they would just finish it. They generally don’t do demolition unless the work is substandard from a safety perspective and the OP would be in the same place he is now.

 

[billconner]

But is the project really complete if it wasn't done to spec?

That was basically my question. Contractor goes bankrupt, bonding company steps in, completes work, gets any outstanding payments. No idea if work of the wrong size gets rebuilt by bonding company. I'll bet they don't just say "sure, we'll tear it all down and start from scratch".

 

[Black300zx]

That was basically my question. Contractor goes bankrupt, bonding company steps in, completes work, gets any outstanding payments. No idea if work of the wrong size gets rebuilt by bonding company. I'll bet they don't just say "sure, we'll tear it all down and start from scratch".

Even if they did, if alternate contractors capable of doing the work are booked 1-2 years out (like the OP says), he's still in a position where he needs a "now" solution to finish his house.

 

[ace10]

Scenario:
Instead of vintage Porsches, the OP has a prized collection of MAN TGA 6X6 Expedition trucks. They're around twelve feet tall.

The garage is no longer usable for his purposes. Would this change the opinion of GJ'ers who have stated that it's good enough and he should just live with it?




I think we're officially past the point of giving advice to the OP. He's got professional boots on the ground, so I'm just curious if there's a line in sand where this project has no choice but to be scrapped and started over? These trucks were my first thought.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

This says “perform according to the terms in the agreement”. Sounds like lawyer talk, but my lawyer would argue it has to be according to the contract documents ... 13 ft in this case.

 

[dcg9381]

Scenario:
Instead of vintage Porsches, the OP has a prized collection of MAN TGA 6X6 Expedition trucks. They're around twelve feet tall.

The OP needs to accept that every time he wants in and out of the garage, he removes the wheels and tires, replaces with a set that are 13" shorter, and he's golden.


To me, the question isn't "should this be fixed at someone other than the OPs massive expense" - but rather, is that even financially possible? It's likely this GC/builder should eat some profit, perhaps should have zero profit, but how much "additional financial reserve" is there left to fix this? Here, this would likely be a walk-away job by the GC, with unpaid subs, leaving the OP in a huge mess.

 

[Novamania]

Was there a solution that all parties were happy with?

 

[PCMusicGuy]

vlocci,​

I'm curious, if you end up settling, using a lift to stack two of the cars, what can you realistically do with the third? Are you going to be parking it in the garage nearby where you planned to park other vehicles? Would it take up a dedicated work bay?

 

[ConCretin]

So those that really understand bonds, with a bond - which would have cost the owner about what the lift cost - would the bonding company have rebuilt this to the 13' clear?

My experience as a designer is the 2 or 3 times the bonding company has had to step in, they only bring the best and finish the work very well, but finished, not torn out and rebuilt to different dimensions.

The bonding company is obligated to complete the job per plans and specs. Period. If the contractor fails to do this and defaults, the bonding company steps in. That is what the owner paid for. Of course, everything is subject to litigation but I believe that if the job was bonded, the OP would get what he paid for including damages, which could be actual or liquidated depending on the contract.

 

[coldh2o]

The bonding company is obligated to complete the job per plans and specs. Period. If the contractor fails to do this and defaults, the bonding company steps in. That is what the owner paid for. Of course, everything is subject to litigation but I believe that if the job was bonded, the OP would get what he paid for including damages, which could be actual or liquidated depending on the contract.

This is not my experience. Any bonds we see limit the surety to a specific amount (often 100% of the contract amount). The bond wording has been standardized by a few organizations, here's one from the Canadian Construction Documents Committee (principal is the contractor, obligee is the owner, surety is the bonding company):



Regardless of the amount, like any other party involved in the project, the bonding company is not just going to hand over the money. In the specific and very unusual case of the OP's project, if there was a bond the bonding company is going to be at the negotiating table with everyone else.

 

[billconner]

I suspect the owner gets nearly satisfied and the contractor is nearly wiped out.

 

[reader2580]

My brother was the GC for building his house. Some concrete in the foundation was poured wrong. It turns out the blueprints were wrong. The architect told him he wasn't liable as the plans state "Owner to verify all dimensions", or similar. How many people would have any idea if one of the hundreds of dimensions on a blueprint was wrong? Luckily, it only cost my brother a day to fix it and some costs for concrete. The concrete contractor was too busy to fix it and it wasn't their error.

 

[ConCretin]

This is not my experience. Any bonds we see limit the surety to a specific amount (often 100% of the contract amount). The bond wording has been standardized by a few organizations, here's one from the Canadian Construction Documents Committee (principal is the contractor, obligee is the owner, surety is the bonding company):

Regardless of the amount, like any other party involved in the project, the bonding company is not just going to hand over the money. In the specific and very unusual case of the OP's project, if there was a bond the bonding company is going to be at the negotiating table with everyone else.

I agree that a surety's exposure isn't open ended but assuming the bond amount was the value of the original contract (and it usually is), removing and replacing the roof isn't going to exceed the cost of the whole project. Things get complicated fast when a project goes south and you are also right that there are going to be a lot of people at the table.

 

[Snip]

So has there been any decisions on the outcome of this issue?

 

[Cairo94507]

So sad to hear this. Also, I feel the only way forward as far as a remedy for you, (which is of course money) is to hire a construction lawyer and let them do what they do. Let the chips fall where they may. But it is going to cost you money because no lawyer should take this case on a contingency basis. If you prevail, seems likely, then you go after attorney fees in addition to the actual damages you suffered.

 

[LOW1]

So sad to hear this. Also, I feel the only way forward as far as a remedy for you, (which is of course money) is to hire a construction lawyer and let them do what they do. Let the chips fall where they may. But it is going to cost you money because no lawyer should take this case on a contingency basis. If you prevail, seems likely, then you go after attorney fees in addition to the actual damages you suffered.

Be Leary of throwing good money after bad. Litigation expenses + contractor’ s bankruptcy = less than what OP has now.

 

[ItsNemo]

Guys, I've met with a very capable second surveyor along with an equally capable builder (who has no interest in fixing this mess and is booked out 2.5 years). I trust hours opinion as he has little to gain.

The surveyor confirmed original topos were accurate enough given the site has changed due to excavation. Critical dimensions like height of existing home and street level are correct on them. These are the critical dimensions for ceiling height. Getting a 13 foot interior height was doable. Poured foundation floor, and by extension the footing etc, are accurate within a few inches.

Finished height of the top of foundation and by extension the top of the concrete roof is short the foot needed. Same holds true for the foundation of the connecting room on the house. The framers made up for this in framing to get floor heights where they needed to be. It looks as someone simply didn't pay attention to the take measure or possibly viewed the 13 foot interior finished height as the total exterior finished height. Screw up was not mine.

Adding a foot too the garage is not readily doable without impacting the rest of the project. New sounding board contractor questioned if it was doable at all now that foundation is backfilled and the rebar runs up the walls and into the roof structure to keep the walls from collapsing inward.

Demoing 80-100 yards of concrete and starting over is not going to happen both because of the time sink and second because I'll bankrupt my builder in the process.

So now I'm into sitting down with the builder and seeking a way to settle. This will be horse trading of some sort I expect ultimately netting him no profit on this job or a tolerable loss.

I additionally and interviewing my own site super/construction manager/ whatever you call them to effectively act on my behalf to vet every action of the builder. I'm on the search for the most incredibly **** type who can call BS on quality shortcuts or other screwups early in the process. I will pay for this person myself such that they are my agent and ultimately seek reimbursement somewhere else. Lunch today with a retired rock star builder who handed the companyto his kids. I expect he would likely welcome the chance to get back on site.

Much of this had been communicated to my current builder who is receptive. His rep means something to him and he knows he screwed up.

Putting a price on the ask remains, which was the nature of my original question. I'm back to build this project with no O&M and net zero profit as the only easily measured metric.

LoL you've said so many times in this thread, nobody is going to demo 80-100 yards of concrete...this is NO BIG DEAL with the right equipment. You don't think large buildings with 10's of thousands of yards of concrete aren't demo'd all the time?

Geeze

 

[billconner]

.this is NO BIG DEAL with the right equipment.

I believe there is a substantial amount of framed building - house addition - built atop this slab and nearly complete. Demoinh that simply bankrupts the GC and leaves the owner with nothing for what he's already paid but rubble. Definition of a Rick and a hard place.

 

[ItsNemo]

I believe there is a substantial amount of framed building - house addition - built atop this slab and nearly complete. Demoinh that simply bankrupts the GC and leaves the owner with nothing for what he's already paid but rubble. Definition of a Rick and a hard place.

That's what insurance companies are for...

Saying something is "not possible" because it's expensive and time consuming, doesn't mean it's actually not possible.

 

[mike93lx]

That's what insurance companies are for...

Saying something is "not possible" because it's expensive and time consuming, doesn't mean it's actually not possible.

Exactly what kind of insurance policy is paying out on this?

 

[ItsNemo]

Exactly what kind of insurance policy is paying out on this?

The builders...

 

[mike93lx]

The builders...

What kind of policy? Insurance isn't some universal catch all.

The builder probably carries liability insurance, workers comp, health, dental... None of those apply

 

[PoorUB]

A contractor of this scale should be bonded.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/construction-bond.asp

 

[gsmith22]

What kind of policy? Insurance isn't some universal catch all.

The builder probably carries liability insurance, workers comp, health, dental... None of those apply

this. bonding is for non performance as has been previously discussed. insurance can't wait to deny a claim like this.

 

[Proud Highway]

NOT LEGAL ADVICE JUST WARM WIND FROM A KOOK ON THE INTERNET

This isn’t a question of liability. Liability is clear on the GC and applicable sub. This is a question of damages and more specifically the proper measure of damages.

It sounds like a diminution in value case. Meaning the damages are the delta in market value of the property with a 12’ ceiling vs 13’ and maybe the out of pocket loss for the lift and some incidentals.

Find a lawyer. Every third household on your street has at least one attorney, they don’t do cases like this but they will know a guy. Call that guy.

 

[Balvar24]

Haven't seen this yet, but if it's been posted, please forgive me.

Does the contractor have E&O coverage? Sounds like he'd better be picking it up if his sales are going to be in the millions per year.

Did the contract call for E&O coverage?

That's the only way there is a chance of a win in court. Even then, the only persons guaranteed a win are the lawyers.

Goes without saying, but any agreement/settlement should be recorded on paper and included as part of the contract as a change order, etc.

 

[BetterDays]

@vlocci
What are the latest updates on this? Good luck!

 

[gsmith22]

@vlocci
What are the latest updates on this? Good luck!

Dealing with GC's insurance

Some of you may recall the debacle that my underground garage build became. (builder built the walls too short) I'm now after insurance advice on the off chance anyone here is in the business. Short version is my General Contractor did a poor job on the garage that they built for me. It is a...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[pcmeiners]

I do not see why you can not go down the extra foot (plus crete depth) with jack hammers or Chinese dynamite. In Manhattan, same senario, I was brought in to lower a basement floor due to a measurement screwup, only we had schist to deal with (granite) which is very hard. As you stated the foundation in on rock, so under pinning should not be a big deal or may not be needed at all.

 

[ordpete944]

I do not see why you can not go down the extra foot (plus crete depth) with jack hammers or Chinese dynamite. In Manhattan, same senario, I was brought in to lower a basement floor due to a measurement screwup, only we had schist to deal with (granite) which is very hard. As you stated the foundation in on rock, so under pinning should not be a big deal or may not be needed at all.

OP said it would be below grade and water would drain in.

 

[pcmeiners]

"OP said it would be below grade and water would drain in."

Still not a major issue.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Death.

 

[ATC]

....and here I am about to pull a loan from my 401k so I can have a $10k carport installed...

Vlocci, best of luck to you. I hope the builder can satisfy you in some way.

 

[firebirdparts]

....

 

[RStewart]

My first move would be to collect all the 12’ tape measures from all the construction crews and supply them with 25’ tapes.

Any resolution?