1929 Mossberg Set Professional edition

PhillInAllentown · Nov 5, 2018

I have the number 82 1929 professional Mossberg Mechanic set (42 pcs)

Does anyone have any information on the value/demand for something like this. I wasnt able to find any other set that was for sale or sold.

woody 73 · Nov 5, 2018

Phill first off welcome to the GJ...

Something that we would all love to see is pictures of your set, so if you could grab a camera and start shooting tons of pictures we would all love to see that set.

As far as demand goes think along the lines of a drunk walking into a bar and asking for another shot; well phill you just stepped into that bar called the Garage Journal and instead of drinks its tools; too a non tool person your set has no meaning or value.

As far as value goes you might have to look at past sales on the web (something other members have told me about) a process of finding past sales figures, just not sure how that all works.

Again welcome to the bar have a seat for this fine evening. :beer:

Private Lugnutz · Nov 5, 2018

Phill,

I never heard of a Mossberg set with a model number that high. Also, are you sure it's marked Mossberg? Is it in a wooden or metal box? Are the pieces pressed steel (hollow male drive tang) or forged?

Around 1925 or so is generally considered the end of the line for theirs (or anyone else's) pressed steel sockets and wooden boxes. It was the advent of cold-forged sockets and handles. The largest set Mossberg was still making and selling in a wooden box at that time was a No. 30.

In 1927 they merged with APCO to form APCO-Mossberg and by then they were already making cold-forged socket drive tools, like the rest of the industry.

I suppose it's possible there is a Set No. 82 out there, and if so, it would make sense that it be made in 1929. (The model numbers climbed from No. 1 in the 'Teens chronologically.)

Really need to post photos. As I am curious now myself.

Hard to give you a value when we don't know what it is.

But in general, as a broad rule of thumb, late 'Teens and early 1920's wood box era socket sets run anywhere from $35 to $150 or so, depending on the brand, the size (number of pcs), the completeness, the condition, and the rarity. While Mossberg was one of two the 600-lb gorillas of the era (the other being Walden), and it does have its followers, the sets are fairly common. If you search on eBay right now, I'd bet you find at least 6 or 7 of them for sale or auction. If you widen your search to "Antique Vintage Socket Wrench Sets Wooden Box" I bet you'd find about 12 or so from different mfgrs. Bigger sets in excellent condition command higher prices. Market matters as well. Flea market estate sales etc run lower, eBay higher.

Private Lugnutz · Nov 5, 2018

Ricky Joe said:
Demand is practically nil and value accordingly. I have similar stuff I couldn't give away.

RJ,
Feel free to send any similar 1920's era socket drive sets you have that you couldn't give away to others to me. I will pay for shipping.

Private Lugnutz · Nov 5, 2018

According to AA, the 1928 McMaster-Carr lists Mossberg sets No. 81 and No. 82 for professional use, with smaller sets No. 80, 83, and 84. The sockets are forged heavy walled Chrome-Moly, not pressed steel. They don't have an example. Post pics.

Oldtuleguy · Nov 5, 2018

four.cycle · Nov 5, 2018

I am a little puzzled, because the model 82 sets I am finding catalog listings for contain no more than 34 pieces (including the box.)
It's always possible, of course, that a previous owner may have added other pieces to the set at some point during the last 90 years.

As to "value": "Value" is what a willing buyer is ready to pay at point of sale.

I haven't been paying any attention at all to the Ebay listings on the older Mossberg and Walden sets for several months. Previous to that, I had been keeping an eye on some listings for vintage sets, but only those that were relatively complete, and were in original boxes that were in fairly decent condition.
As Private Lugnutz points out above, there are other factors involved, but selling prices on Ebay generally ranged anywhere from about $35 to $150 if and when there was a willing buyer.

That said, there is no second-guessing Ebay buyers - they are a fickle lot.

Mossberg 82 34-pc SAE socket set - 1927 Geo. Worthington Co. catalog pp 1167.jpg

Mossberg 82 34-pc SAE socket set - 1927 Hibbard Spencer Bartlett & Co. catalog pp 2431.jpg

Mossberg 82 34-pc SAE socket set - 1928 Van Camp Hardware & Iron Co. catalog pp 2285.jpg

Private Lugnutz · Nov 5, 2018

Thanks for confirming my estimated price range, 4.c. (The best source for actual sales examples of collectible tools remains WorthPoint, but you have to pay after the limited free trial offer.)

Unless I'm the only one with the big ol' blind spot for these 'tweener Mossberg sets, for the lack of a better term for them, I think they would present something of an oddity in the market, coming in between the very early pressed steel sockets that Mossberg is best (and for some and perhaps even most collectors, only) known for, and the later standard and specialty socket drive tools that APCO-Mossberg produced for the military. I like the attaché style case. I have a few Blackhawks in attaché style cases. I picture a mechanic pulling up out in the country behind a broke down Hupmobile, wearing a fedora and zipping his coveralls up to a bowtie. Truth, not fiction, in those days.

PhillInAllentown · Nov 5, 2018

Here is a link and also a description of what was in the case

Mossberg 630 triple socket wrench with (measured) sizes (1/2x5/8)x5/8, stamped with the model number and two M-Diamond logos on the shank.
No. 350 ratchet from the No. 10 socket set, marked "Frank Mossberg Co." and "Attleboro, Mass. U.S.A." with the M-Diamond logo.
Mossberg 232 1/2-drive Ell-handle
Vintage Frank Mossberg Tools Tee Handle 1616 1/2
Vintage Frank Mossberg Tools Tee Handle 1614 1/2
Vintage Brase Rim Walden Worchester 7/8 (Possible number 1428 but not located on tool)
Vintage Frank Mossberg 1/2-drive female-male universal adapter, Numbered 368
Vintage Frank Mossberg spark-plug socket with the fractional 1 5/32 - Numbered 422
Vintage Frank Mossberg spark-plug socket," with the fractional 31/32 Numbered 407
Vintage Frank Mossberg spark-plug socket, with the fractional 32/32 Numbered 402
Mossberg Han-D-Set 1/2-Drive Socket Set 7/8 3/4 11/16 5/8 9/16 1/2 (6 sockets handle and mini kit)
1/2-drive Mossberg No. 367 20 inch speeder, marked "Frank Mossberg Corp.
1/2 Drive Breaker Bar numbered 370
Chrome Sockets - Marked double Diamond logo with M in the middle
5/8
3/8 splitter
3/8
7/16
31/32
3/4
25/32
13/16
7/8
15/16
1/2
9/16
9/16
1/2 Drive Breaker Bar numbered 370
1 inch
11/16
1/2 ? Unreadable
Vintage socket handle Frank Mossberg speed handle marked 333
Vintage Frank Mossberg speed handle marked 366
Vintage Frank Mossberg speed handle extender marked 372 (short)
Vintage Frank Mossberg speed handle extender marked 373 (long)
Vintage Frank Mossberg speed handle extender/breaker No Markings visable

PhillInAllentown · Nov 5, 2018

Private Lugnutz · Nov 5, 2018

Neat set, Phill. If you want to figure out what's original and what may have been added by a PO, compare the pieces to the ads 4.c posted.

Private Lugnutz · Nov 5, 2018

Curiosity got the best of me. Looks like the extras pieces are:

- That tray with the sockets in it
- Both of the extra long T-handles
- The multi-wrench and the brace at the very bottom of your first pic

Private Lugnutz · Nov 5, 2018

Ricky Joe said:
Come down and get them.

I may take you up on that next time I am in the area! Post pics when you get a chance!

Private Lugnutz · Nov 5, 2018

Ricky Joe said:
You know you are proving my point. You have to give them away.

Hmm, I wonder what Phil has to say about that assertion, since I offered him $75 for the set upthread shortly after he posted it. (Phil, sorry man, I take that offer back. Apparently it's worthless! :lol:

)

Can you do me a favor, Ricky Joe, and please tell the guys on this GJ thread here that I deserve my money back? I just bought four (4) worthless 1920's vintage tool boards filled with worthless 1920's tools from them. Tell them they should be giving them away. Tell them that those old Bonney and Mossberg tools aren't worth the time it takes to pack them up. And tell all the guys clamoring all over that thread and inundating them with PM's that they are part of "nil demand"!

Now what was that you were saying about proving a point?

Normally I don't like to confront people with their own fallibilities, but when push comes to shove, I shove back.

Just because you have been unable to sell your vintage 1920's and 1930's tools and tool-sets, which you have yet to show or identify by specific brand and model, doesn't mean that ALL 1920's and 1930's vintage socket sets have no value.

I have an even better one for you.

A few weeks ago a 1-post new member username Xtreme17 shows up and starts a thread, linked here, with a Walden-Worcester Set No. 8, asking questions about its age and value. Typical fly by that isn't really allowed but tolerated, especially when it's something cool. Sort of like this thread here. So I helped him out, offering my advice and knowledge, including the same $35 - $150 price range I just gave Phil. I also offered him $50 for the set if he was looking to sell it. He decided to put it on eBay instead, I wished him luck, and I asked him to let me know when he listed.

I don't normally shop on eBay, but I have a Walden-Worcester Set No. 16 that I found at a flea market several years ago for half that, and I thought they'd make a nice pair together. Big brother and little brother, so to speak.

The auction opened at $20. There were several bidders competing for it. The set is now mine for $52.50, which is, needless to say, just about what I valued it at to begin with.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the fact is these era tools are bought and sold all the time, at flea markets, estate sales, on eBay, and right here on GJ, and informed buyers and sellers track and know the market. (And if they don't, they use WorthPoint!)

What you and several other GJ'er who like to complain here about their tools not selling seemingly fail to understand or recognize is that not all old tools are the same, and not all old tools have the same value. Some old tools really are just worthless junk. Many aren't. The trick is knowing which is which. Every time I hear someone trash the value of vintage tools it's a seller who didn't understand the market. Every time I challenge them, they never want to identify the tools they are talking about in specifics. Or they do, and it turns out they overestimated the value of what they were trying to sell.

Ole Slewfoot · Nov 6, 2018

That or they try to sell a $2 wrench with $8 shipping. You have to put enough in the box the prospective buyer doesn't just see it as paying 5x too much for a $2 wrench.

four.cycle · Nov 6, 2018

PhillInAllentown -

It would appear you've got a fairly complete set. The box looks good - still has most of the decal on it.
Whether or not somebody is willing to shell out a lot of money for it is open to debate.
You do, however, have the advantage of it being the beginning of the Christmas shopping season. With some great photos and a well-written ad on Ebay you might well find a willing buyer.

==

Private Lugnutz - those Walden sets are beautiful! Are those boxes refinished, or is that the original patina?

BK

Private Lugnutz · Nov 6, 2018

four.cycle said:
you might well find a willing buyer.

BK, why are you trying to talk him out of my offer? :lol:

four.cycle said:
Private Lugnutz - those Walden sets are beautiful! Are those boxes refinished, or is that the original patina?

Thank you, sir! Original! The only thing I have done to the No. 16 is wipe on some Orange-Glo - my wood cleaner of choice. Acquiring the No. 8 has prompted me to notice that the hinges and clasp on No. 16 still need some attention (I try to avoid removing hardware to de-rust whenever possible), as does the amazing little broached opening to nut-and-bolt sizing data tag, which could use a little Brasso and re-bradding!

Private Lugnutz · Nov 6, 2018

We have similar backgrounds, RJ. It's not about direct or indirect. I have no problem with your reply to the OP. Your reply to me when I said I would love to take you up on your free tools giveaways, even if it meant driving there, inadvertently backed you into a corner of further defending your evaluation of the Mossberg set, and tools and sets like it, as worthless, which is patently, blindingly absurd on a forum where dozens of guys are showing dozens of vintage tool acquisitions on a daily basis. These aren't exceptions, they are rules. Knowing the gems from the junk is the key to winning the game, as sellers or buyers, and having fun while doing it. Whether that's picking at a flea market or an estate sale or zooming in on photo 5 of 9 in some hapless eBay seller's lot of $4.95 wrenches to find the rare wartime gem or the HD gem or the '67 Vette gem or the South Bend Toolroom lathe toolpost wrench gem that they were too lazy or inexperienced or just plain dumb to recognize. I got me some crates myself. Your admission that you are not in the business of selling tools makes perfect sense - although I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion you have to give them away unless you've tried to sell them, unsuccessfully - and explains everything. I am more than fine with us disagreeing about this.

EDIT: My apologies to all and the OP for distracting from his thread. This is my last post.

PhillInAllentown · Nov 6, 2018

I wanted to thank everyone for their 2 cents. I am not a mechanic. Im more of a sales guy. If I can offer an outside perspective. A box full of old rusty steel is exactly what it is.. When we start putting a name to these wrenches its when they start to have value. Is it worth the time and money to start digging? For me its about the hunt.. The next box lot at the farm auction, garage sale or flea market could be that one item of been searching for.. Thank you all and God Bless

four.cycle · Nov 6, 2018

PhillInAllentown said:
"...I am not a mechanic. Im more of a sales guy..."

Same here, Phil.
As one salesman to another: you've got an item there that could potentially command a fair price if it's marketed properly. If you're in sales, you should know how to go about that. It is, doubtless, a challenge to put a lot of sizzle on that steak, but if it's relatively clean, intact, not damaged, and well-presented, it's got the requisite collector appeal.

Good luck with that thing. Let us know of any other finds you turn up.

If you want the *.jpg files for those catalog snips, PM me a good email addy and I'll forward them to you.

BK

Private Lugnutz · Nov 26, 2018

I took possession of this c. 1927 Mossberg Socket Wrench Set No. 82 on Black Friday. It’s a wonderful kit!

Private Lugnutz · Nov 26, 2018

The set should have thirty-three (33) pieces; it has thirty-one (31). It’s missing a couple hex sockets (7/16” and 19/32”) and the No. 371 Connecting Block (more commonly known as an adapter or a drive plug), this one with an 11/16” plug and a 1/2” male drive stud.

I called it a ‘tweener set upthread, and nothing demonstrates that better than the No. 350 ratchet, which is a leftover from their Pressed-Steel era sets. Note that it has an 11/16” female drive opening. The only pieces in this set it can drive externally without the No. 371 Connecting Block are the No. 402, 407, and 422 Spark Plug Sockets, which are also Pressed-Steel era pieces.

Everything else in the set is forged Nickel-Plated Chrome-Moly steel, including the thirteen (13) hex sockets, from 7/16” to 1” (again, missing the 7/16” and 19/32”), five (5) square sockets from 3/8” to 5/8”, a No. 368 Universal Joint, and all the handles (No. 323 Offset or Ell, No. 332 and 333 Tee’s, No. 320 Sliding Tee, No. 366 Short Speeder and No. 367 Long Speeder) and extensions (No. 372 short and No. 373 long).

The coolest piece in the set is the No. 369 Ratchet Unit. It’s a 7-tooth spring-loaded external ratcheting adapter that has a 1/2-inch female drive opening on one end and a 1/2-inch male drive stud on the other. It will work with any of the handles in the set with a 1/2-inch make drive stud. See Pics 6 & 7.

Private Lugnutz · Nov 26, 2018

The attache style carry case is a nifty design.

As you can see, it is meant to be carried and stored upright. The drop front lid has holders for several of the handles, as does the back. The bottom of the case has a socket tray for the sockets and a wider area for the long speeder, the spark plug sockets, the uni joint and the ratchet adapter. It’s evident why they considered this a professional kit. It can be carried by a repairman, and everything is easily accessible.

Private Lugnutz · Nov 26, 2018

The extra pieces were a small Husky 1/2-inch drive hex set in a typical L-handle holder and a few Walden-Worcester wrenches. I will post those on NB and WW threads.

four.cycle · Nov 27, 2018

very cool. :thumbup:

let me see if I understand correctly:

you're shy an 11/16" square drive plug for the 350 ratchet?

CRTDI · Nov 27, 2018

The whole look about this set is just cool. It was either under utilized or respectfully used and well cared for.

Private Lugnutz · Nov 27, 2018

four.cycle said:
let me see if I understand correctly:

you're shy an 11/16" square drive plug for the 350 ratchet?

Yes. I thought I had one - I always pick up orphan drive stuff (especially tommy bars and drive plugs), but I don't. I have seen them before, though. It's a single piece with three parts. It has a round collar to keep it in the opening, then the 11/16-inch square diameter drive block - fitting in the 11/16" sq dr opening in the ratchet, then the 1/2-inch drive stud. Again, all the other handles will turn the sockets, and it does have that coarse-tooth ratcheting adapter (I have NEVER seen one before - not on AA or anywhere else!), for ratcheting action. But the 350 ratchet will only turn the spark plug sockets from the outside (11/16 hollow external male drive tangs).

It can be confounding looking at their old pressed steel sets and seeing that 11/16-inch ratchet and NO adapter. It turned the sockets from the outside. The extensions turned them from inside, having a 1/2-inch male drive on one end (for the inside of the socket's hollow male drive tang) and an 11/16-inch male drive on the other end (for the ratchet opening).

EDIT: I misremembered. The collar is hex-shaped, not round.

CRTDI said:
The whole look about this set is just cool. It was either under utilized or respectfully used and well cared for.

Thanks, CRTDI. Means a lot coming from you and your good eye!

I did clean it up some, especially the case (WD-40, 0000 steel wool), and some of the tools (Metal Rescue, WD-40, fine grain sanding sponge). But you're right, and I think that keeping the tools in the case helped.

four.cycle · Nov 27, 2018

^ that is an animal I have never seen before.

Private Lugnutz · Nov 27, 2018

Yeah, might be a bit of a tough one to find.

I'm still waiting for someone to say they've seen one of these before and show me another one!

notlob · Nov 27, 2018

Nice grab Lugz! A terrific set in great condition.

The $30.50 price was a lot of money in 1927 - equates to $424.80 in today's fiat currency.

https://www.saving.org/inflation/inflation.php?amount=7&year=1927

Private Lugnutz · Nov 27, 2018

Thanks, BB! I'm still smitten by it.

Targa68 · Mar 26, 2019

Hi

I assume this might have come in a case like that.

Private Lugnutz · Mar 26, 2019

Not exclusively, but yes, that looks like a Mossberg No. 367 speeder. Nice find, Targa68.

Private Lugnutz · Jan 24, 2020

While the tools show up here from time to time, including torque wrenches, WWII extensions, WWII Ell handles - and let's not forget those cool freaking single offset DBE wrenches that came in a boxed set, we don't have a thread dedicated to APCO-Mossberg, the merger of the Auto Parts Company and the Frank Mossberg Company, in 1927, so I'm just going to put this here. It sort of fits, because the Professional No. 82 toolset, with heavy-walled, hot-forged, cold-broached sockets is the last stuff that the old Mossberg was making before transitioning to APCO-Mossberg.

Frankly, I have never seen an APCO-Mossberg socket before. It is, as you would expect, heavy-walled, hot-forged, and cold-broached. Nickle-plated walls, satin base. With those two bands of knurling, it's an attractive socket. I like the name, too. TWIN HEX.

MR.X · Nov 16, 2021

Apco Mossberg box. Mossberg 'M" on ends, brass "made for" plate, top compartments slide out on rails.

Private Lugnutz · Nov 16, 2021

The whole box is eye-poppingly fantastic, but this...

MR.X said:
top compartments slide out on rails.

...is really interesting. If strong enough, I think I like it better than cantilevers.

Is that yours? If so, I look forward to seeing much more of the tools.

MR.X · Nov 16, 2021

Private Lugnutz said:
The whole box is eye-poppingly fantastic, but this...

...is really interesting. If strong enough, I think I like it better than cantilevers.

Is that yours? If so, I look forward to seeing much more of the tools.

Thanks Lugz. . Yeah, I picked it up this weekend from a very cool dude near Brockton, MA who hits estate sales but does not specialize in tools. Left it with a friend in New England so I wouldn't have to fly with it. Will get it later when I'm there with my car.
I was skeptical of the stability of design when I first saw it but it's quite sturdy. Full of Apco Mossberg drive tools in varying degrees of condition. No idea if tools were part of set that came with box or ?.
"made for" plate raises questions.
I know there's people on the GJ that are pretty good at researching names so I'm all ears.

Private Lugnutz · Nov 16, 2021

MR.X said:
a very cool dude...[ ]... who hits estate sales but does not specialize in tools.

Those are the best kinds of sources!

MR.X said:
No idea if tools were part of set that came with box or ?.

I'm just curious enough to help you find out. EDIT: I'm pretty sure I've seen this or something like it before, now that I think about it. I remember asking about the slides and how robust the were. I just need to remember where.

MR.X said:
"made for" plate raises questions.

I'm not following you there. If you mean it seems super-customized, my hunch is the wording was done like that to have that personalized effect. As if every box was made exclusively for each individual customer. I think it's just like the brass ID plaques you see on Blackhawk and other substantial set boxes.

Private Lugnutz · Nov 16, 2021

Found it! 1928 ATJ. (Credit to 4.c's clever and tireless efforts to pull free images off of eBay catalog and trade journal sales...)

Private Lugnutz · Nov 16, 2021

Oh, and...

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