110 Outlets not working

[DocPhilMD]

I can tell I am going to love this site. I started another thread on the generator backfeed and the help I got was tremendous. So thank you all very much.

I am having another issues that I will probably tackle this weekend.

In the front of the house, there are 4 110 outlets that are connected in one circuit. I believe they are connected to the GFCI switch in the bathroom. When an electric device is plugged into any of the four 110 outlets, it doesn't work. However, my AC voltage tester says they are all getting juice.

The GFCI switch in the bathroom won't reset like it is constantly being tripped.

Where to start with this? So far, I checked and the breaker isn't tripped in the main panel and all 4 outlets shut the green light off in my AC tester. What next? Thanks in advance

 

[Erampu]

Get yourself a GFCI tester and check out that GFCI.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Get yourself a GFCI tester and check out that GFCI.

Will do. Any recommendations on which one? Is there one that can test all types of plugs for future use?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Are you using an actual plug tester with the little lights that give you a fault code ?

 

[DocPhilMD]

Are you using an actual plug tester with the little lights that give you a fault code ?

No just the pencil shaped tester where the green light goes off if it detects an AC circuit

I just ordered a socket tester from Amazon. I will come back with what it says after I test

 

[checkthisout]

I can tell I am going to love this site. I started another thread on the generator backfeed and the help I got was tremendous. So thank you all very much.

I am having another issues that I will probably tackle this weekend.

In the front of the house, there are 4 110 outlets that are connected in one circuit. I believe they are connected to the GFCI switch in the bathroom. When an electric device is plugged into any of the four 110 outlets, it doesn't work. However, my AC voltage tester says they are all getting juice.

The GFCI switch in the bathroom won't reset like it is constantly being tripped.

Where to start with this? So far, I checked and the breaker isn't tripped in the main panel and all 4 outlets shut the green light off in my AC tester. What next? Thanks in advance

Remove the GFCI, detach the outfeeding wires.

At this point you have isolated the outlet.

Now, turn the circuit back on and see if you can reset the outlet.

If you can't, then your GFCI outlet is bad. Replace it and retest. If you can then you have a ground fault somewhere downstream.

 

[Shiftless]

remove the gfci, detach the outfeeding wires.

At this point you have isolated the outlet.

Now, turn the circuit back on and see if you can reset the outlet.

If you can't, then your gfci outlet is bad. Replace it and retest. If you can then you have a ground fault somewhere downstream.

^^^^^^^

 

[DocPhilMD]

^^^^^^^

Dumb question here: which ones are the outfeeding wires.

Sorry about the newbie questions. I'm learning here.

 

[Shiftless]

Dumb question here: which ones are the outfeeding wires.

Sorry about the newbie questions. I'm learning here.

GFCI outlets have two sets of screws
One set is marked line...they connect to the source of power
The other set is marked load... those are the out feed wires serving electricity to the outlets (if any) downstream
New GFCI outlets come with instruction sheets explaining that stuff.

 

[DocPhilMD]

GFCI outlets have two sets of screws
One set is marked line...they connect to the source of power
The other set is marked load... those are the out feed wires serving electricity to the outlets downstream
New GFCI outlets come with instruction sheets explaining that stuff.

Thank you. I appreciate humoring my dumb questions. I am grateful for the opportunity to learn. I will check and report back

 

[RECox286]

One set of wires will be hooked to the screws labeled "LINE"

which is your hot feed from the circuit panel.

The wires hooked to "LOAD" are the runners for the outside

receptacles. REMOVE the wires from "LOAD" and do yer testing.

Uncle Bob

 

[Bigbandguy]

Since appear to be fairly new at this it behooves me to mention that prior to replacing the the GFI outlet you should turn off the breaker to that circuit. Otherwise the next light in the room might be you.

 

[rsnip988]

Since appear to be fairly new at this it behooves me to mention that prior to replacing the the GFI outlet you should turn off the breaker to that circuit. Otherwise the next light in the room might be you.

^^^^ VERY IMPORTANT STEP^^^
Hopefully we only make that mistake once...

Not stupid questions at all, could as easily have been checked on Google as here, but most of us don't mind answering questions of any simplicity or complexity... There are some who will be very condescending and sarcastic to "NOOB" questions, but we all had to start somewhere! Ask away, I have found most of my questions have already been answered by someone on here. The search function can be very picky, I usually use a google search and type my keywords and Garagejournal and it finds me answers.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Are you close to a hardware store? Rather than waiting for Amazon to send you the outlet tester, buy one at the hardware store. ACE has one for $9.99. If you see two of them on the wall, buy the more expensive one, its only a few bucks more.

If the CFCI is bad and you have to replace it, replace it with the more expensive "pro" or "premium" version. Don't get the cheap "contractor level". Make sure the replacement CFCI has a little LED light on it so that you can see if the CFCI is live or has been tripped. Very helpful.

Now that you're replacing outlets, do you know the difference between backstabbing and backwiring an outlet?

Keep the questions coming. We're all here waiting to help you.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Are you close to a hardware store?

Now that you're replacing outlets, do you know the difference between backstabbing and backwiring an outlet?

Keep the questions coming. We're all here waiting to help you.

Already ordered haha. Amazon prime two days. Not bad. Given the winter storm and all the work that goes along with it I probably won't make it there in a couple days anyways.

I will report back with my findings

As for the backstabbing and backwiring, no I don't. But I am absolutely wanting to learn!!!

-Doc

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Remove the GFCI, detach the outfeeding wires.

At this point you have isolated the outlet.

Now, turn the circuit back on and see if you can reset the outlet.

If you can't, then your GFCI outlet is bad. Replace it and retest. If you can then you have a ground fault somewhere downstream.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

As for the backstabbing and backwiring, no I don't. But I am absolutely wanting to learn!!! -Doc

Check out this post:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159079

There is a link at the beginning which explains the difference between backstabbing and backwiring. There are follow-up posts talking about the two different methods and some of the bad experiences with backstabbing.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[teamextreme]

In the front of the house, there are 4 110 outlets that are connected in one circuit. I believe they are connected to the GFCI switch in the bathroom. When an electric device is plugged into any of the four 110 outlets, it doesn't work. However, my AC voltage tester says they are all getting juice.

The GFCI switch in the bathroom won't reset like it is constantly being tripped.

I think everyone missed the boat on this one. If the tester says there's voltage at the dead outlets, but nothing works in the outlet, that means you've lost the neutral. That also means the GFI is likely just fine because it's sending voltage to those outlets. It also won't reset or work if the neutral feed to the GFI is missing. Since you say it won't reset properly, you've likely lost the neutral feeding into the GFI. You didn't say if the GFI is working, as in providing power for anything plugged into it. My guess is it's not. I would check the neutral connection at the silver line terminal of the GFI or somewhere upstream, up to and including all the way back at the connection to the neutral bus in the panel.

OK, I'm editing this again, because the more I think about this the less it makes sense. If there's voltage at the dead outlets as measure by a non-contact tester, that means the neutral is missing. However, if the GFI won't reset, that means it shouldn't be sending any voltage downstream. Either the circuit is not wired as OP thinks, or the GFI is faulty, but has failed "on", which I've never seen before. They always fail off.

 

[Dustball]

I'd agree with the neutral being your issue. My parents had a receptacle in their garage that would read fine with a voltage tester but would not allow anything electrical to function when plugged into it. It turned out to be a barely connected neutral wire at an upstream receptacle- touching just enough to allow voltage through but not enough to allow decent current through.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Thats why I suggested a plug tester many posts back.

 

[Shiftless]

Thats why I suggested a plug tester many posts back.

Exactly!

 

[DocPhilMD]

I think everyone missed the boat on this one. If the tester says there's voltage at the dead outlets, but nothing works in the outlet, that means you've lost the neutral. That also means the GFI is likely just fine because it's sending voltage to those outlets. It also won't reset or work if the neutral feed to the GFI is missing. Since you say it won't reset properly, you've likely lost the neutral feeding into the GFI. You didn't say if the GFI is working, as in providing power for anything plugged into it. My guess is it's not. I would check the neutral connection at the silver line terminal of the GFI or somewhere upstream, up to and including all the way back at the connection to the neutral bus in the panel.

OK, I'm editing this again, because the more I think about this the less it makes sense. If there's voltage at the dead outlets as measure by a non-contact tester, that means the neutral is missing. However, if the GFI won't reset, that means it shouldn't be sending any voltage downstream. Either the circuit is not wired as OP thinks, or the GFI is faulty, but has failed "on", which I've never seen before. They always fail off.

The non contact tester signals current at each of 4 outlets

However no device works when plugged into each oulet including the GFCI. Since all 4 are near each other and none of them work I figured they are all wired together. I can confirm this by shutting off the breaker and testing with the non contact tester again when I get home

Does this help?

 

[DocPhilMD]

Plug tester on the way!

I figure that if there is a bad connection its probably on the one of 4 outlets that is outside. Given its exposed to the elements

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

The non contact tester signals current at each of 4 outlets

However no device works when plugged into each oulet including the GFCI. Since all 4 are near each other and none of them work I figured they are all wired together. I can confirm this by shutting off the breaker and testing with the non contact tester again when I get home

Does this help?

Blowing on one of those pencil testors can light it up,wait for your real tester to show up.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Rubbing it in your hair can cause it to go off as well.

 

[404]

Thank you. I appreciate humoring my dumb questions. I am grateful for the opportunity to learn. I will check and report back

There are no dumb questions. Only house fires from questions not asked.

 

[MikeinNorthWales]

According to the other thread, this is a new house for you. Did the outlets work when you bought it? Or haven't they worked since you moved in?

What would happen if the LINE and LOAD are switched on the back of the GFCI? Was the GFCI added to pass inspection for the sale?

 

[teamextreme]

What would happen if the LINE and LOAD are switched on the back of the GFCI? Was the GFCI added to pass inspection for the sale?

The GFI wouldn't be able to be reset (as is the case), but it also wouldn't be sourcing any voltage downstream, which it apparently is.

 

[DocPhilMD]

OK. So I disconnected the load connections and turned on the juice.

The GFCI still didn't work.

So it must be a bad GFCI then correct?

Couldn't the AC detector just be sensing the current in the wires coming to the GFCI outlet? It is still getting juice from the panel but the switch is permanently flipped?

Any advice on the correct GFCI to buy? it is 2.5 inches tall and the whole plate is 4.5 inches.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Thats why I suggested a plug tester many posts back.

I second this.

The non-contact tester is likely misleading you as has been mentioned.

The plug tester should allow you to test (a/k/a "Outlet & GFCI Tester") whether you have a good ground and whether the neutral is done right. This device checks many aspects of wiring. You might find two of them at ACE or HD or wherever you go. Price difference is usually two to four dollars. Recommend you get the more expensive one.

I use the Leviton GFCI's. Buy them at Home Depot. Buy the better one(s); i.e. more/most expensive. You should probably be getting by with 15amp receptacles (don't use 20amp unless you have wiring for a 20amp circuit and a 20amp breaker).

http://levitoncompanyinc.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=42316&minisite=10251

In the picture of the GFCI below, please notice the tiny green LED in the lower right hand corner. I highly recommend you get GFCI's with the LED indicator. Very quickly and easily lets you see if the GFCI is tripped or not. This is especially useful if the GFCI is mounted in a place that is awkward to see or get too.


Keep us posted.

 

[DocPhilMD]

I second this.

The non-contact tester is likely misleading you as has been mentioned.

The plug tester should allow you to test (a/k/a "Outlet & GFCI Tester") whether you have a good ground and whether the neutral is done right. This device checks many aspects of wiring. You might find two of them at ACE or HD or wherever you go. Price difference is usually two to four dollars. Recommend you get the more expensive one.

I use the Leviton GFCI's. Buy them at Home Depot. Buy the better one(s); i.e. more/most expensive. You should probably be getting by with 15amp receptacles (don't use 20amp unless you have wiring for a 20amp circuit and a 20amp breaker).

http://levitoncompanyinc.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=42316&minisite=10251

Keep us posted.

Doesn't the fact that I disconnected the load lines confirm the GFCI is bad?

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Doesn't the fact that I disconnected the load lines confirm the GFCI is bad?

Not necessarily. The outlets on the GFCI are also "load". So even though you disconnected the wires on the "load" lugs, you still had "load". I'm not sure having "load" wired to the GFCI is material to the issue though.

Unless someone else has a better idea, the only way to know if a GFCI is "bad" (I think of them as being "weak" and tripping easily) is to replace it with a new one. If everything is then OK .... the original one is bad in my book and I destroy it.

As pointed out by other posters, we don't know if you're getting good power to this outlet in the first place.

What is upstream from this outlet? A switch? Another outlet (it could be a non-GFCI outlet)? Or is the GFCI in question hooked directly to the breaker?

If there is something (any device) between the breaker and the GFCI in question, its possible that device has a poor connection. Did you read the assigned material on "backstabbing"? Maybe there is an outlet upstream that is backstabbed and the connection is poor, lousy, or even failed ... with just enough power getting to the GFCI in question for your non-contact tester to pick something up.

(Kinda off the subject ... but you should NOT have a second GFCI downstream from the first GFCI on the load side of the GFCI.)

 

[Dustball]

If you already have the GFCI outlet pulled out of the box, might as well spend the $15 on a new one and replace it.

 

[DocPhilMD]

Not necessarily. The outlets on the GFCI are also "load". So even though you disconnected the wires on the "load" lugs, you still had "load". I'm not sure having "load" wired to the GFCI is material to the issue though.

Unless someone else has a better idea, the only way to know if a GFCI is "bad" (I think of them as being "weak" and tripping easily) is to replace it with a new one. If everything is then OK .... the original one is bad in my book and I destroy it.

As pointed out by other posters, we don't know if you're getting good power to this outlet in the first place.

What is upstream from this outlet? A switch? Another outlet (it could be a non-GFCI outlet)? Or is the GFCI in question hooked directly to the breaker?

If there is something (any device) between the breaker and the GFCI in question, its possible that device has a poor connection. Did you read the assigned material on "backstabbing"? Maybe there is an outlet upstream that is backstabbed and the connection is poor, lousy, or even failed ... with just enough power getting to the GFCI in question for your non-contact tester to pick something up.

(Kinda off the subject ... but you should NOT have a second GFCI downstream from the first GFCI on the load side of the GFCI.)

I did read and the GFCI was side wired so I hope all of them are but who knows.

I believe the GFCI is directly hooked to the breaker.

My plan is as follows

1)await for my plug tester on thursday and post the results here

2)put a new GFCI in.

3)if that doesn't work then check the other 3 outlets in the circuit for solid and proper wiring.

Sound like a plan?

 

[Mr. T]

The non-contact tester is likely misleading you as has been mentioned.

Non-Contact testers are prone to false positives from "Ghost voltage" which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Always nice to have a DMM to double check.

The one I use at work lights up about 6 inches away from a cabinet with 480 in it.

If it doesn't light up you're probably fine (but I still double check) and if it does light up I triple check.

 

[tapia6185]

It sounds like you should be under supervision allot. You don't use a proximity tester to check for voltage. Find a good co-worker and ask, you'll be surprise, allot of people are willing to help.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[tapia6185]

I think everyone missed the boat on this one. If the tester says there's voltage at the dead outlets, but nothing works in the outlet, that means you've lost the neutral. That also means the GFI is likely just fine because it's sending voltage to those outlets. It also won't reset or work if the neutral feed to the GFI is missing. Since you say it won't reset properly, you've likely lost the neutral feeding into the GFI. You didn't say if the GFI is working, as in providing power for anything plugged into it. My guess is it's not. I would check the neutral connection at the silver line terminal of the GFI or somewhere upstream, up to and including all the way back at the connection to the neutral bus in the panel.

OK, I'm editing this again, because the more I think about this the less it makes sense. If there's voltage at the dead outlets as measure by a non-contact tester, that means the neutral is missing. However, if the GFI won't reset, that means it shouldn't be sending any voltage downstream. Either the circuit is not wired as OP thinks, or the GFI is faulty, but has failed "on", which I've never seen before. They always fail off.

He is using the" pencil kind". Proximity tester. You can read voltage with that.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[tapia6185]

He is using the" pencil kind". Proximity tester. You can read voltage with that.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Sorry, can't

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[DocPhilMD]

It sounds like you should be under supervision allot. You don't use a proximity tester to check for voltage. Find a good co-worker and ask, you'll be surprise, allot of people are willing to help.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I wasn't using the proximity tester to check for voltage. Just seeing if the outlets are getting juice.

I just busted out the DMM and the voltage at the GFCI is zero.

So the proximity detector was just sensing AC current in the wires as I suggested before.

Must be a bad GFCI

I've learned a ton in my two days here. Thank you all very much

 

[tapia6185]

I wasn't using the proximity tester to check for voltage. Just seeing if the outlets are getting juice.

I just busted out the DMM and the voltage at the GFCI is zero.

So the proximity detector was just sensing AC current in the wires as I suggested before.

Must be a bad GFCI

I've learned a ton in my two days here. Thank you all very much

If voltage at gfci, line side, is zero, then you have a problem between the breaker and the gfci. If voltage is good at line side, then your problem is at gfci, or down the line.

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