13 mm wrench test

[lok]

Maybe the slim wrenches are from harder alloy. The Hazet are thicker from the rest and maybe doesn't need more hardness or the more is not better with that thicker design. Do not forget that the wrench should bent and not break.

I also notice that the open end 450N are harder from 600N and equal to the others in hardness.

Why in some wrenches the chrome looks to be 0?

 

[lok]

I also notice that the gedore No6 are harder from No7!
But the No6 was 14-17. Do you have any 13mm No6 like 12-13 or 13-14? Or 17mm No7? I'm curious!




Maybe the box end is easier to break if the beam doesn't bent first, like this View media item 31289 when the No6 or 450N hasn't that problem because the open end spread before the beam bent.

Ah I know nothing about all these, I can do only speculations.

 

[Miskin]

Maybe the slim wrenches are from harder alloy. The Hazet are thicker from the rest and maybe doesn't need more hardness or the more is not better with that thicker design. Do not forget that the wrench should bent and not break.

I agree but the Gedore No6 which is the hardest, also is the thicker, 6mm.

I also notice that the open end 450N are harder from 600N and equal to the others in hardness.

Why in some wrenches the chrome looks to be 0?

They do not have chrome coating. Only 'inside' the steel. I mean when we say 'chrome vanadium' we refer to the steel alloy not the coating. I make a conclusion from the test so far. The expensive wrenches doesn't need chrome ccoating because the alloy is rustproof ( i've seen some wrenches which are rusted after chrome peeling.)

I also notice that the gedore No6 are harder from No7!
But the No6 was 14-17. Do you have any 13mm No6 like 12-13 or 13-14? Or 17mm No7? I'm curious!

Only Dowidat No6 12x13. See above, i measure it.

Maybe the box end is easier to break if the beam doesn't bent first, like this View media item 31289 when the No6 or 450N hasn't that problem because the open end spread before the beam bent.

Ah I know nothing about all these, I can do only speculations.

Ok that make sense, but why all the other combination wrenches are harder?
The only logical explanation is because Hazet is the longest from all the wrenches i tested so far. I need a Gedore No6 XL 13 mm!!

 

[lok]

I agree but the Gedore No6 which is the hardest, also is the thicker, 6mm.

It is 14-17. It has the thick of 17mm wrench in both ends and it is not a compi so the open ends should be strong. In combi if the hardness is bigger the beam will not bent and the ring could break. But this is only a theory. I truly don't know, only speculate.

They do not have chrome coating. Only 'inside' the steel. I mean when we say 'chrome vanadium' we refer to the steel alloy not the coating. I make a conclusion from the test so far. The expensive wrenches doesn't need chrome ccoating because the alloy is rustproof ( i've seen some wrenches which are rusted after chrome peeling.)

I didn't knew that. Ah.. I told you, I know nothing.

Only Dowidat No6 12x13. See above, i measure it.

I was curious about the differences of gedore No7 13mm and No6 12-13. I thought that was exactly the same.

Ok that make sense, but why all the other combination wrenches are harder?
The only logical explanation is because Hazet is the longest from all the wrenches i tested so far. I need a Gedore No6 XL 13 mm!!

All the other are thiner than hazet.

The No6 XL? You mean 13mm No7 XL right?

It has the same thickness in the open end with the No6 13-17 and the No6 are cheaper.

 

[AmericanPreferred]

Gedore No6 14-17--------------52 --------------0.10


Finally found one harder than the bolt, have a 13mm?

 

[AV tinker er]

How much torque are you applying to the bolt?

 

[Miskin]

How much torque are you applying to the bolt?

I don´t know. I can´t measure the torque. I don´t use a torque wrench. My employer doesn't provide me with one of those. I think he should.

 

[Dimitri]

If it's anything like the machines I've worked on, the torque is as tight as you can get it comfortably by hand, then a two handed yank for a extra 1/8th of a turn.

Dimitri

 

[AV tinker er]

If it's anything like the machines I've worked on, the torque is as tight as you can get it comfortably by hand, then a two handed yank for a extra 1/8th of a turn.

Dimitri

So turn it until you hear a "pop" then back off a 1/4 turn?

 

[1950mercury]

Can you take the bolts out and grind the metal behind them to provide clearance for a line wrench?

 

[Miskin]

Can you take the bolts out and grind the metal behind them to provide clearance for a line wrench?

This CNC cost to my employer 50-60K $ and you want me to grind the mill?

 

[Miskin]

Can you take the bolts out and grind the metal behind them to provide clearance for a line wrench?

This CNC cost to my employer 50-60K $ and you want me to grind the mill?

 

[1950mercury]

Sure if it not going to hurt anything

 

[superautobacs]

Thinking a bit out of the box here....how about a Knipex Raptor plier/wrench? Tighten the bolt with a standard open ender and then finish with the Raptor. Reverse order for removal.

 

[DamageInc.]

Shoot me your shipping address in an email and I will see if shipping isn't too horrible to send you a Snap-on 13mm wrench. As long as I don't have to put a second mortgage on my house I'll see what I can do.

 

[Miskin]

Thinking a bit out of the box here....how about a Knipex Raptor plier/wrench? Tighten the bolt with a standard open ender and then finish with the Raptor. Reverse order for removal.

Too uncomfortable! I prefer something solid. I test the Knipex pliers wrench (8603180) and it´s not handy. I think the raptor not make any difference.

Shoot me your shipping address in an email and I will see if shipping isn't too horrible to send you a Snap-on 13mm wrench. As long as I don't have to put a second mortgage on my house I'll see what I can do.

I find out a store which sells UNIOR mainly and have a Snap-on sign. If i won't find there I´ll pm you.

 

[bahcoswed]

Yep and i send you some wrenches too! Old bahco like i say before i didnt have a 13mm...But i have new bahco 1952m. So i can send you bahco 1952m, some old kamasa! But i should find a old bahco sweden because it is the thinnest wrench i have ever seen of regular combo wrenches! Strong like hell too! The 1952m is allmost thin like the old stuff, but i dont think it`s so strong sadly...

 

[Miskin]

Shoot me your shipping address in an email and I will see if shipping isn't too horrible to send you a Snap-on 13mm wrench. As long as I don't have to put a second mortgage on my house I'll see what I can do.

No Snap-On at UNIOR store. You are my last hope!

Yep and i send you some wrenches too! Old bahco like i say before i didnt have a 13mm...But i have new bahco 1952m. So i can send you bahco 1952m, some old kamasa! But i should find a old bahco sweden because it is the thinnest wrench i have ever seen of regular combo wrenches! Strong like hell too! The 1952m is allmost thin like the old stuff, but i dont think it`s so strong sadly...

 

[cosmik binturong]

found another one while sorting some odd wrenches, a Stanley 87-073 like the one Monte posted in his "Tools from the Old World" thread:

should be on its way before the end of the week...

 

[Miskin]

found another one while sorting some odd wrenches, a Stanley 87-073 like the one Monte posted in his "Tools from the Old World" thread:

should be on its way before the end of the week...

Because I'm confused, remind me how many wrenches you sent me?

 

[cosmik binturong]

Because I'm confused, remind me how many wrenches you sent me?

did i send you wrenches? me? you sure? you're realllllllly sure 't was me?


'cause i've never sent any wrenches to anyone!

never! Monte can readily testify about it!

 

[Monte]

yeah cosmik is right

 

[Miskin]

did i send you wrenches? me? you sure? you're realllllllly sure 't was me?


'cause i've never sent any wrenches to anyone!

never! Monte can readily testify about it!

yeah cosmik is right

 

[Monte]

fits exactly

 

[cosmik binturong]

fits exactly

right!


Miskin, you should do a hardness test on those two heads and then see if you can fit'em in the lathe for some "remodeling"...

 

[Miskin]

Cosmik binturong contribution!

Facom 440 (made in Taiwan by Toptul)

View media item 31681
View media item 31682
View media item 31683
Stanley 87-073 (made in China?)

View media item 31684
View media item 31685
MAXI DRIVE PLUS COMBINATION WRENCH

View media item 31686
Thanks a lot my French friend!

 

[rick carpenter]

Have you contacted the engineers at Okuma? Seems like they would be interested in solving this for you. And, have you contacted other Okuma lathe operators to see if they have the same problem?

 

[monkeyspanners]

Get two the same and weld them together so the jaws are twice as deep!

 

[rednotch]

would a craftsman extreme head wrench fit? they no longer make them but can be found used, I wonder how well the open end would hold up? you can see a pic here. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187090&highlight=Extreme+Grip

They where ment for rusted/ seized bolts. I used to use them for rusted up tie rods that would flex most open head wrenchs... worthless for anything else thought as there not a rachet wrench like most claim and you had to be flush on the hardware.

 

[Twiggss]

So that is why all the 13mm's and 1/2"s are messed up at my workplace.

To me the wrench is almost a consumable in this type of environment. The inserts and tooling can cost waaaaay more than some silly little wrench.

 

[Miskin]

Have you contacted the engineers at Okuma? Seems like they would be interested in solving this for you. And, have you contacted other Okuma lathe operators to see if they have the same problem?

I don't do this test to resolve the problem with damaged wrenches. They'll reply that we use them with the wrong way (that's true). I just had an idea seeing the damaged wrenches to try other brands.

Get two the same and weld them together so the jaws are twice as deep!

That's very cruel..

would a craftsman extreme head wrench fit? they no longer make them but can be found used, I wonder how well the open end would hold up? you can see a pic here. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187090&highlight=Extreme+Grip

They where ment for rusted/ seized bolts. I used to use them for rusted up tie rods that would flex most open head wrenchs... worthless for anything else thought as there not a rachet wrench like most claim and you had to be flush on the hardware.

I never encounter a wrench like that neither in Greece or ebay.

So that is why all the 13mm's and 1/2"s are messed up at my workplace.

To me the wrench is almost a consumable in this type of environment. The inserts and tooling can cost waaaaay more than some silly little wrench.

I completely agree with you, that's why i'm not going into the process to find a solution. I just like to try different brands and see how they react to pressure.

 

[rednotch]

I never encounter a wrench like that neither in Greece or ebay.

I stopped really checking ebay years ago but they still pop up in the US on there . Don't know how well craftsman sold in other countries though. They sold it in a few styles, combo, box and ratcheting in both sets and singles before they dropped them so there should be plenty out there. Just gotta search craftsman extreme grip. Though I see them alot mislabeled.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=Craftsman+Extreme+&_sacat=0

 

[Miskin]

I stopped really checking ebay years ago but they still pop up in the US on there . Don't know how well craftsman sold in other countries though. They sold it in a few styles, combo, box and ratcheting in both sets and singles before they dropped them so there should be plenty out there. Just gotta search craftsman extreme grip. Though I see them alot mislabeled.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=Craftsman+Extreme+&_sacat=0

I meant "ebay.co.uk" where the shipping costs are affordable. If i order them from "ebay.com" i will pay $30 + $37 shipping +$18 import changes. Not a good deal for a 12-19 wrench set!

 

[justanengineer]

Interesting set of tests. In every shop Ive been in tho, they would just use the "proper" wrench - an adjustable, which is why nuts on machine tools tend to be overly thick. I suppose tho that if you are having issues with operators using regular wrenches, it might only make it worse by trying to teach them to use an adjustable, but thats what Ive always seen used. Id suggest milling your own one really thick since you have a pretty good idea now of the hardness you need.

 

[Miskin]

Some new measurements

Brand--------------------------HRC---------------- Chrome coating (mm)
Matador 190--------------------41--------------------0.085
Garant---------------------------41---------------------~0
Stahlwille-----------------------47----------------------~0
Matador 190 old series---------38--------------------0.15
HR (India) Lidl------------------34--------------------0.10
Bost-----------------------------49 -----------0.08
Dowidat No6 12-13-------------38--------------------0.10
Gedore No6 14-17--------------52 --------------0.10
Unior----------------------------47.5-------------------0.15
IUS------------------------------47 --------------0.05
Izeltas---------------------------44----------------------~0
Cobalt Ratcheting Wrench------45----------------------~0
Hazet 600N beam---------35--------------------0.17
----------------open end-------- 31---------------------~0
Facom 440----------------------44----------------------~0
Stanley 87-073------------------41----------------------?

We tried (specifically one of my colleagues because I am on vacation) to measure Stanley's chrome coating but ... We didn't manage to measure a fixed value. From zero to 0.3 mm. This is a sign of poor quality.
Facom... Similar quality with Stahlwille. I'm impressed with this Taiwanese wrench!

View media item 32062
The thickest combination wrench i have tested

 

[Miskin]

Now we use Stahlwille Open Box 13
47 HRC!
View media item 30699

Has been passed more than 5 months with Stahlwille open box 13 13mm.

View media item 33360
View media item 33361
View media item 33362
No chrome coating, so no chrome chipping for Stahlwille. Also no widening for open box. The tolerances have not changed. I think this wrench made it well for the past 5 months. I will change it with Bost to see if it's as good as Stahlwille.

Bost-----------------------------49 HRC -----------0.08 chrome coating.
View media item 31089

 

[CWP1616L]

View media item 33361

Why the edge peeling at both sides of the open end?

Looks like the wrench was not being placed on the fastener squarely.

 

[mac_intosh]

To make a wrench just to be as hard as it can be isn´t the solution. The problem is well known for knives or swords. When it´s too soft it can bend, when it´s too hard it can break - both potentials to causing injuries.

The right thing is to specify in which points in the wrench has to be hard enough not to break and soft enough not to stay deformed when the pressure is removed.

Quite a dynamic problem all the manufacturers have or should care about.


Very interesting thread, Miskin!

 

[Miskin]

Why the edge peeling at both sides of the open end?

Looks like the wrench was not being placed on the fastener squarely.

The fastener is harder from wrench so peeling is inevitable. And as mac_intosh says right under this post "if the wrench is hard enough for the fastener, will break".

To make a wrench just to be as hard as it can be isn´t the solution. The problem is well known for knives or swords. When it´s too soft it can bend, when it´s too hard it can break - both potentials to causing injuries.

The right thing is to specify in which points in the wrench has to be hard enough not to break and soft enough not to stay deformed when the pressure is removed.

Quite a dynamic problem all the manufacturers have or should care about.


Very interesting thread, Miskin!

Thanks!

 

[mudflap]

Miskin - I have been following this thread from the beginning..It;s been very intresting, and informative...Thank You..And thanks to all contributors..