16" or 24" centers?

[mltdwn12]

I have a pole barn that I'm putting studs in now for insulation and inner walls. The current main 6x6 poles are on an 8' center. The small side of the barn has ~9' ceilings and I installed studs on a 2' center. The more I read I wonder about 16"centers. I still have the larger side of the barn to stud. It has 16' ceilings. Since these studs are only providing a framework for insulation and OSB is it worth it to spend the additional money on material to do the next section on 16" centers?

Thanks for any help, this is my first barn/shop project. I haven't had much luck getting anyone to come out and quote the work, so I decided to try and do it myself!

 

[rustyjames]

For drywall and insulation purposes you're fine with the 2' centers.

 

[Dagny]

It cost money but unless the building is huge it's amazing how few more it takes.

 

[Stuart in MN]

24" is fine.

 

[Marctrees]

24 more than adequate..

16 is not only the minimal expense of a few more studs...

But mostly the fact that your batts... per man labor installed rollout..

would cover 50% less per batt.

More time, absolutely no benefit.

Marc

 

[Blazinzuk]

I did it on 16" centers. But I have put up alot of random shelves and I just liked having a few more studs to drill into if needed.

It cost I think about a 100 bucks more.

But around here I could get the narrower insulation cheaper than the wider ( my local Ace hardware beat everyone's price) so I did 16" centers for just about 20 bucks more than 24

 

[rayra]

24" will work fine, even more so if you run your drywall / plywood / OSB horizontally. But check first and see how available 24" insulation is in your area. A price premium for it might make an extra 2x4 for every 4' of wall a worthwhile expense.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

This would be my determining factor-

But check first and see how available 24" insulation is in your area. A price premium for it might make an extra 2x4 for every 4' of wall a worthwhile expense.

Assuming you're using f/glass insulation, how do you plan to separate the insulation from the notorious sweating steel cladding?

 

[mltdwn12]

This would be my determining factor-
Assuming you're using f/glass insulation, how do you plan to separate the insulation from the notorious sweating steel cladding?

I was told to use 1/2" to 1" foam board directly on the steel walls and then insulation. Thoughts?

 

[firecracker]

As an x carpenter I did a couple of jobs at 24" that were OK, but I always wished I'd done them at my usual 16" centres. No particular reason, just peace of mind I suppose

 

[Marctrees]

Is this building in Phoenix ?

Or WV ?

Marc

 

[firebirdparts]

Better insulation with 24.

 

[Marctrees]

Better insulation with 24.

Technically correct, due to less heat conduction by fewer through wall framing members.

But, negligible difference.

Marc

 

[mltdwn12]

Is this building in Phoenix ?

Or WV ?

Marc

Berkeley Springs, WV

 

[NUTTSGT]

I was told to use 1/2" to 1" foam board directly on the steel walls and then insulation. Thoughts?

I'd put the foam board in before building the stud walls. Looking on CL, you may find some places selling 1½" foam reasonable cheap.



Back to your original question, the 24" should be fine but I think I would prefer to have them on 16" centers to hang stuff on.

 

[Falcon67]

Either works - however, check on availability of insulation rolls, etc that fit the 24" OC. 16" is standard construction so that will be what is mostly in stock. Sometimes 24" is a bit hard to find.

 

[rwa2004]

16" my vote.

The savings of extra studs with 24" is virtually nothing.
The labor saved with 24" is virtually nothing.
The improved insulation with 24" is virtually nothing.

With 24", you will notice much "softer" walls where the drywall/osb flexes far more between the studs. That extra stud/sheet makes a big difference for how rigid the sheet is held.

 

[johnnyradiant]

16" my vote.

The savings of extra studs with 24" is virtually nothing.
The labor saved with 24" is virtually nothing.
The improved insulation with 24" is virtually nothing.

With 24", you will notice much "softer" walls where the drywall/osb flexes far more between the studs. That extra stud/sheet makes a big difference for how rigid the sheet is held.

Sorta like the developers in my area. They all have to report to the municipalities about the impacts their projects will have. They all present their traffic congestion reports as virtually nothing and after a few years of so many virtually nothings I live in a heavily congested region that not too long ago was clear sailing most of the time.

 

[Falcon67]

16" my vote.

The savings of extra studs with 24" is virtually nothing.
The labor saved with 24" is virtually nothing.
The improved insulation with 24" is virtually nothing.

With 24", you will notice much "softer" walls where the drywall/osb flexes far more between the studs. That extra stud/sheet makes a big difference for how rigid the sheet is held.

Agree with 1,2,3. On 4 - respectfully disagree. Have done two buildings with 24" OC studs and have no such issues. The only flex I've seen in my 7/16" OSB walls is when I punched a hole in a sheet with a golf cart.

 

[rburke65]

Just an opinion, but I went 16” O C

 

[rburke65]

For the added cost, you get a stronger build.

 

[TractorJeff]

What is a stronger build?
The building is a Pole Barn which is already self supported.
All the high efficiency documentation states 24" is superior due to less heat/cold transmission through the wood.
Everyone knows staggered stud built walls are the best due to no one piece of wood touching the inside and outside!
Just Saying!

 

[Pathfinders]

The money I saved in lumber for 2" on center was eaten by 2" bats on insulation.

 

[Marctrees]

But also, you avoided about 1/3 more hammer stapling.

Or is it 50% more.

Whatever.

One of the two.

Marc

 

[Falcon67]

I'm reminded that stud spacing may not matter to some people -

https://www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/...Fail-Fail-to-Build.-What-is-this-I-don-t-even

 

[Marctrees]

Falcon -

Where in the Hell were you with that link during the Rain Barrell stand discussion ? ?

Marc

 

[b-boy]

16" OC for me as well.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

I was told to use 1/2" to 1" foam board directly on the steel walls and then insulation. Thoughts?

Are you putting the foam board on the backside of the framed wall before standing the wall? If not, you're not getting the full effect of the f/glass because it's being compressed in that less than 3.5" cavity.

 

[mltdwn12]

I was going to put foam board between the horizontals, directly on the metal siding. Then there's about 5" of space for insulation between where the inner wall will attach and those horizontals. Or should I just slip the foam behind the 2x4's (there's enough room) and nail it to the horizontals?

 

[rustyjames]

I was going to put foam board between the horizontals, directly on the metal siding. Then there's about 5" of space for insulation between where the inner wall will attach and those horizontals. Or should I just slip the foam behind the 2x4's (there's enough room) and nail it to the horizontals?

Have you considered using Roxul? That stuff is the ticket.

 

[NORTON'S SHOP]

The money I saved in lumber for 2" on center was eaten by 2" bats on insulation.

It's going to take a lot of studs to build 2" on center.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Or should I just slip the foam behind the 2x4's (there's enough room) and nail it to the horizontals?

This sounds like the way to go- fairly easy, straightforward, and still leaves "breathing room" against the metal sheathing to help with condensation evaporation. Just be sure to tape the seams to seal air movement- considering it would appear that the walls are already standing.

 

[lakeroadster]

What is a stronger build?
The building is a Pole Barn which is already self supported.

It has 16' ceilings.

16' long 2x4's and 24" spacing

You ever planning to hang anything on the walls, like wall cabinets, for storage? Or tire storage racks, or ??

If the answer is yes... use 2x6's on 16" centers on that tall wall. Then the wall will be strong enough for whatever you want to hang on it in the future, within reason.

 

[Marctrees]

Seems 2x4 would be fine if tied to a few midway wall girts.

Like 1/3rd and 2/3rd up the wall.

Even if 2x6, I would sure tie it at least to one near center girt.

I'm assuming the studs are directly against the girts..

I would CAREFULLY "Toenail" w 2" decking screws, being careful not to dimple siding panel.

So, very simple to tie in, don't scrimp on tie frequency.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

If, like in the case of using 2x4 in a 6 or 5 1/2" post wall, fill space w scab blocking.

Probably obvious.

Marc

 

[DHCrocks]

I just saw this old house this weekend and they were talking about doing a net zero house and to improve the efficiency they used 24" oc studs instead of 16" oc. The larger spacing meant the insulation bays were larger and that less studs could be used. Wood is apparently a poor insulator and that by minimizing the amount of studs the efficiency of the building would be improved.

since you are doing this from an insulation standpoint only go with the 24".

 

[Blazinzuk]

Speaking of that. I tied into one girl and it made a huge difference in the rigidity. I think in a high wind area I'd tie in to all of them. Put a peice of 1/2 foam to not be as isolated as possible.

View media item 83926

 

[lakeroadster]

Speaking of that. I tied into one gir(t) and it made a huge difference in the rigidity. I think in a high wind area I'd tie in to all of them. Put a peice of 1/2 foam to not be as isolated as possible.

It's a floating slab... it's named that because the slab moves independent of the wall.

In your case you have the wall attached to the slab, and attached to the building structure.

On a structure with a floating slab it's good to not rigidly fasten anything to the slab and to the building structure. If the slab raises due to frost heave, or settles due to sub-grade compaction issues it can damage the building structure.

That means, ideally, all walls should be floating walls. For perimeter interior walls that means attach them to the structure, but leave a gap at the floor. For divider walls that means attach them to the floors, but not to the exterior walls or trusses.

That's what I did on my barn. It's not really that complicated, just takes some planning.

For perimeter walls see post #142 here: https://talk.classicparts.com/threads/lakeroadsters-high-country-barn.22110/page-8

For divider walls see post #135 here: https://talk.classicparts.com/threads/lakeroadsters-high-country-barn.22110/page-7

Hope that helps. Good luck on your project.

 

[Sparkynutz]

It's a floating slab... it's named that because the slab moves independent of the wall.

In your case you have the wall attached to the slab, and attached to the building structure.

On a structure with a floating slab it's good to not rigidly fasten anything to the slab and to the building structure. If the slab raises due to frost heave, or settles due to sub-grade compaction issues it can damage the building structure.

That means, ideally, all walls should be floating walls. For perimeter interior walls that means attach them to the structure, but leave a gap at the floor. For divider walls that means attach them to the floors, but not to the exterior walls or trusses.

That's what I did on my barn. It's not really that complicated, just takes some planning.

For perimeter walls see post #142 here: https://talk.classicparts.com/threads/lakeroadsters-high-country-barn.22110/page-8

For divider walls see post #135 here: https://talk.classicparts.com/threads/lakeroadsters-high-country-barn.22110/page-7

Hope that helps. Good luck on your project.

I read through the posts quickly twice looking for details on the grey cabinets. maybe I missed it. What make are they or did you build them?


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[lakeroadster]

I read through the posts quickly twice looking for details on the grey cabinets. maybe I missed it. What make are they or did you build them?

I bought the cabinets from Lowes back in 2005

They are made by Do+Able Products Inc. Chino CA

Base Cabinet P/N 12333, Wall Cabinet P/N 12332