200a feed to dwelling, 4/0 max distance?

[PCustoms]

In the bottom section, to the neutral bar. You could put it on the lug next to the neutral, but I would save that for something big in the future. The regular neutral bar should be able to accept up to a #4.

Yep, now that I've had a shower and something to eat I went back and looked at the diagram and I just wasn't thinking clearly (I kept glancing at it and thinking "but there isnt an alternate ground terminal"). Funny, as I had just verified that the ground bars I have to add to the house panel (it's becoming the sub) accept #4.

The neutral and the lug next to it will be feeding the house.

Please excuse my dumb question, kind of a rough day today.

All the physical work I've been doing over the past few months resulted in minimal soreness and no pain.

Last night I bent over to drive a screw just below my waist and felt my back pop. Last night was excruciating to roll over unless I supported myself (read: had to be awake and thinking about it). Took 1st naproxen at 4am and 2nd at 5am, by 7 I was able to stretch and at least get moving.

Never had back problems until I fell down a set of stairs 5 years ago. Now if I bend or squat my back randomly gives out. Guess it's time to see a Dr.

 

[PCustoms]

Ever had a charlie horse in your leg as you try to carefully roll over to avoid a back spasm? Another slow start as I waited for my lower back to unknot. Oddly moving and doing seems fine.

Pulled 62' of wire from LB to new panel. Stupid me believed the marketing in the slick jacket and didn't lube the first several feet as I fed it into pipe. Pushing seemed better then pulling (helper bailed) so I did that, hung up at the 90 into the panel.

Squirted some lube down the pipe and alternated tensioning with a ratchet strap and pushing/jiggling the opposite end and it came through. Good thing, as I had not secured my pull loop wel l enough and it was coming undone.

Prepped the 2nd half into the house, that has less bends and is 1/3 the distance so should go easy. Having some lunch and then I'll finish that.

 

[PCustoms]

Well, everything in and pulled. Could have done without the rain as I was wrestling with the last few inches in the LB. Bigger pipe would have been nice, but the extra struggle was worth the 50% savings.

Need to start re-arranging the grounds in the house. Probably wait for the sun to come out, be nice to open the overhead door for light and kill the main before going arms deep to move everything.

 

[PCustoms]

Well PoCo was supposed to come by Friday morning to swap everything over. At 5:30 we had a beautiful deep red sunrise and by 6:15 it was a torrential downpour. Not surprisingly, we had to reschedule.

Seeing as how my back is still only 90% from last week, I decided to start getting some smaller inside items taken care off. Unfortunately the more I look at the outside main the more I hate it.

Seems NM-B to the outside panel likely isn't code. What is the correct way to bring wiring inside? I'll have amax of 3 circuits:

-12/2 for a few outlets
-14/2 for lights (2 interior LED, a security flood and a light by dor).
-4 #8 for generator

I might just put the lights on the outlet circuit, as this isn't a workshop. Unsure if I'll run NM-B inside for generator or THWN in conduit outside. I have a piece of 10/3 UF that might be long enough....

 

[mike93lx]

If it's going straight into the house, I bet nearly anyone would use nm-b for that.

 

[PCustoms]

If it's going straight into the house, I bet nearly anyone would use nm-b for that.

There's about a 1" gap (panel is mounted to the battens), I've considered running a ****** into the wall cavity and sealing with putty.

 

[sparky 1971]

There's about a 1" gap (panel is mounted to the battens), I've considered running a ****** into the wall cavity and sealing with putty.

Use a chase ****** through the panel into a rigid coupling behind it and into the shed. Then screw a romex connector into the other end of the rigid coupling.

 

[PCustoms]

Use a chase ****** through the panel into a rigid coupling behind it and into the shed. Then screw a romex connector into the other end of the rigid coupling.

Is that to code, or just common practice?

Gives me an idea how to do similar with PVC. I've got lots of fittings and cutoffs.....

 

[PCustoms]

Use a chase ****** through the panel into a rigid coupling behind it and into the shed. Then screw a romex connector into the other end of the rigid coupling.

Is that to code, or just common practice?

Gives me an idea how to do similar with PVC. I've got lots of fittings and cutoffs.....

Realized this morning what I had pictured with PVC won't I work as I'd have an unbonded metal clamp.

I actually have a 1" chase ****** for some reason. Not sure a rigid coupling will be long enough, board and battens are about 2" thick total, but I can figure that out piggybacking your suggestion.

Can a Romex connector be installed screw side into box?

 

[mike93lx]

Realized this morning what I had pictured with PVD won't I work as I'd have an unbonded metal clamp.

I actually have a 1" chase ****** for some reason. Bout sure a rigid coupling will be long enough, board and battens are about 2" thick total, but I can figure that out piggybacking your suggestion.

Can a Romex connector be installed screw side into box?

afaik, the orientation doesn't matter. it just needs to secure the wires.

 

[sparky 1971]

Realized this morning what I had pictured with PVD won't I work as I'd have an unbonded metal clamp.

I actually have a 1" chase ****** for some reason. Bout sure a rigid coupling will be long enough, board and battens are about 2" thick total, but I can figure that out piggybacking your suggestion.



Use a close ****** to put two couplings together. You could also use a short piece of EMT with a romex to EMT adapter/connector inside or EMT connector-figid coupling-romex clamp.



Can a Romex connector be installed screw side into box?

Yes but with the clamps inside, even though it's not very far, potentially valuable room is taken up by the cable having to come further inside the panel before bending.

 

[PCustoms]

@sparky 1971

Thanks for answering with all my typos....

The orange borg *****, no matter what size/configuration I tried to piece together they were out of something in RMC. The have the weirdest things, and then not the rest of the material needed to use them. I didn't consider EMT, odds are they didn't have everything anyway.

Here's the game plan:

3/4 PVC from the panel into a 4 11/16 box mounted flush to wall. 3pcs 14awg THWN and 3pcs 12awg THWN through conduit. One ground attached to box.

Should have room if I want to pull in some #8 for the generator.

Questions:

• Can I run 1 ground into the box and tie all together?
• Does the THWN need to be secured somehow?

 

[sparky 1971]

One ground is fine as long as it's sized for the largest circuit. If you think you're going to add #8's in the future, use a #10 ground.

I'm not sure what you mean by secure the THWN. It's in conduit.

 

[PCustoms]

One ground is fine as long as it's sized for the largest circuit. If you think you're going to add #8's in the future, use a #10 ground.

I'm not sure what you mean by secure the THWN. It's in conduit.

Cool, I had some #10 on hand already.

I wasn't sure either, just simultaneously struck me as odd that NM-b would need to be secured but THWN in a short conduit can just float.

 

[sparky 1971]

Cool, I had some #10 on hand already.

I wasn't sure either, just simultaneously struck me as odd that NM-b would need to be secured but THWN in a short conduit can just float.

You could squirt some liquid nails in both ends of the conduit if it's a concern. That outa secure them.

 

[PCustoms]

You could squirt some liquid nails in both ends of the conduit if it's a concern. That outa secure them.

I assume you're joking....

If it's not an issue, it's not a concern.

BTW, wish I had thought of EMT this morning. Minus 1 rain tight connection I had everything else on hand.

 

[sparky 1971]

I assume you're joking....

If it's not an issue, it's not a concern.

BTW, wish I had thought of EMT this morning. Minus 1 rain tight connection I had everything else on hand.

The wire can lay in the conduit. There is no way to secure the wire, the conduit being secured takes care of it. And since you are only using about three or four inches of pipe, it's secured by the boxes.

 

[PCustoms]

BTW, wish I had thought of EMT this morning. Minus 1 rain tight connection I had everything else on hand.

Was out getting lunch nearby, on a whim I stopped at a small hardware store. $2.39 for the raintight fitting!

 

[PCustoms]

Potentially stupid question:

How do I make sure my (soon to be) sub panel is not bonded?

I have installed 2 ground bars, moved all grounds and removed the bonding screw. Still have continuity between neutral and grounds.

 

[mike93lx]

Potentially stupid question:

How do I make sure my (soon to be) sub panel is not bonded?

I have installed 2 ground bars, moved all grounds and removed the bonding screw. Still have continuity between neutral and grounds.

Wicked stupid question!

The neutral bar should be isolated with a big piece of plastic.

Are there wires in the panel? If the feeder is connected, the you will have continuity since it is bonded at the first disconnect

 

[PCustoms]

Wicked stupid question!

The neutral bar should be isolated with a big piece of plastic.

Are there wires in the panel? If the feeder is connected, the you will have continuity since it is bonded at the first disconnect

I guess I didn't ask it correctly.....

Square D homeline panel, been in use for ~5 years as main panel.

I understand where the neutral bars are, and obviously they are on plastic. I had the green bonding screw in, as this was the main panel.

In preb to make this the sub panel, I just installed 2 ground bars (left and right) and moved all my grounds. Then I removed the bonding screw.

The panel is still connected to the old meter via 2 hots and a neutral. The ground rod is connected at the meter.

I still have continuity between ground and neutral.

 

[mike93lx]

I guess I didn't ask it correctly.....

Square D homeline panel, been in use for ~5 years as main panel.

I understand where the neutral bars are, and obviously they are on plastic. I had the green bonding screw in, as this was the main panel.

In preb to make this the sub panel, I just installed 2 ground bars (left and right) and moved all my grounds. Then I removed the bonding screw.

The panel is still connected to the old meter via 2 hots and a neutral. The ground rod is connected at the meter.

I still have continuity between ground and neutral.

The neutral and ground are connected at the meter pan

 

[sparky 1971]

The continuity is coming through the meter main, where the neutral and ground are bonded. If you've moved the grounds to separate bars, the neutral is mounted on plastic, and the bonding screw has been tossed like you say, you're not bonded. Pull the ground or neutral from the feeder off and then do the continuity check.

 

[PCustoms]

The neutral and ground are connected at the meter pan

The continuity is coming through the meter main, where the neutral and ground are bonded. If you've moved the grounds to separate bars, the neutral is mounted on plastic, and the bonding screw has been tossed like you say, you're not bonded. Pull the ground or neutral from the feeder off and then do the continuity check.

Guys, new meter/main is not in play yet, wires are just laying in conduit and not landed.

My brain shut off around 3 this afternoon, and I was kind of thinking along the same lines as you, but I'm missing somethin or something doesn't add up

Meter is fed by 3 wires. Meter also has the EGC landed inside the pan. Only 3 wires leave the meter (hot, hot, neutral). Panel has no other connection to the ground.

 

[sparky 1971]

Guys, new meter/main is not in play yet, wires are just laying in conduit and not landed.

My brain shut off around 3 this afternoon, and I was kind of thinking along the same lines as you, but I'm missing somethin or something doesn't add up

Meter is fed by 3 wires. Meter also has the EGC landed inside the pan. Only 3 wires leave the meter (hot, hot, neutral). Panel has no other connection to the ground.

Is there metal conduit between the meter and the panel? If so, you're bonded through that.

 

[PCustoms]

Is there metal conduit between the meter and the panel? If so, you're bonded through that.

Nope, SER.

 

[sparky 1971]

You are getting the continuity through the meter. The neutral is bonded to the can, You said the ground rod is connected to the meter. Is it connected to the panel as well? I didn't see that the ground rod went to the meter earlier.

 

[PCustoms]

You are getting the continuity through the meter. The neutral is bonded to the can, You said the ground rod is connected to the meter. Is it connected to the panel as well?

No.

I'm tempted to go disconnect the neutral, but it's late and I've had a couple beers.

My assumption that I should NOT have ground/neutral continuity is correct, right? Thisbis with all circuits connected and appliances plugged in.

When I disconnect the current feed tomorrow,(PoCo here at 8:30am), I'd there is still continuity I have a bad connection downstream?

Hoping I'm missing something obvious tonight and didn't mess something up 5 years ago when I rewired...not sure how I would find that. I think I know how to isolate the circuit, which is annoying and time consuming. From there I could have a lot of things to check....

 

[sparky 1971]

No.

I'm tempted to go disconnect the neutral, but it's late and I've had a couple beers.

My assumption that I should NOT have ground/neutral continuity is correct, right? Thisbis with all circuits connected and appliances plugged in.

When I disconnect the current feed tomorrow,(PoCo here at 8:30am), I'd there is still continuity I have a bad connection downstream?

Hoping I'm missing something obvious tonight and didn't mess something up 5 years ago when I rewired...not sure how I would find that. I think I know how to isolate the circuit, which is annoying and time consuming. From there I could have a lot of things to check....

What do you have for A grounding electrode at the house? Rods? Pipe? I doubt there is a UFER.

 

[PCustoms]

What do you have for A grounding electrode at the house? Rods? Pipe? I doubt there is a UFER.

Single 8' rod right now.

 

[sparky 1971]

Single 8' rod right now.

And that's a different rod than what is connected to the meter?

Also, if you have three wires from the meter, you don't have SER, which has a ground. If it's SE cable with the bare neutral, is it touching the metal of the panel?

 

[PCustoms]

And that's a different rod than what is connected to the meter?

Also, if you have three wires from the meter, you don't have SER, which has a ground. If it's SE cable with the bare neutral, is it touching the metal of the panel?

Nope, just the single rod connected inside the meter pan, then SEU (Sorry, error originally) into the panel.

Here's where I left the panel a few hours ago, bundle or horizontal wires is the new feed:



Wish it was a bit neater, but have rewired this 3 times (pulled old panel and replaced, pulled balance of new circuits in house and just pulled everything to move grounds).

There was some really odd wiring when I bought the house, hoping there is still something wrong in the meter that I kissed last time I pulled it. Here's as close to the original layout as I have (orange and yellow are new circuits I was running):



That mess had dual SEU feeds at the meter bugged together with a split bolt and a bunch of #4 ground cutoffs covered in a roll of tape. A LOT of #14 on 30 breakers. Once I dug into things whole house got rewired.

Ditching the janky overhead feed is the final bit of old work in the house.

 

[mike93lx]

With all those circuits in there, maybe one has a neutral and ground connected?

 

[PCustoms]

With all those circuits in there, maybe one has a neutral and ground connected?

That's what I'm worried about. Not sure how/why I would have done that though

 

[sparky 1971]

It could as simple as a ground wire bent around and touching a neutral terminal in a receptacle. It happens, but now with AFCI's it has to be corrected in order to get the circuit to work.

 

[PCustoms]

It could as simple as a ground wire bent around and touching a neutral terminal in a receptacle. It happens, but now with AFCI's it has to be corrected in order to get the circuit to work.

Fack.

My outlets are all back wired so it should not be that.

So plan of attack:

Pull left ground bar and isolate, if continuity disappears then the issue is on the side. Repeat for RHS if needed.

Once side is isolated, start pulling neutral until continuity drops (yay screaming meter!).

From there check "as built" sketches and start opening boxes. Since this was all Reno work, I had the get creative rather then ideal with how some circuits were routed.

 

[mike93lx]

Hookup your meter for continuity and start pulling neutrals one by one.

Best me by a second

 

[PCustoms]

Fingers crossed it's the damn dryer outlet.

 

[sparky 1971]

Fack

So plan of attack:

Pull left ground bar and isolate, if continuity disappears then the issue is on the side. Repeat for RHS if needed.

Once side is isolated, start pulling neutral until continuity drops (yay screaming meter!).

From there check "as built" sketches and start opening boxes. Since this was all Reno work, I had the get creative rather then ideal with how some circuits were routed.

That should get you narrowed down pretty quick. Good luck.

 

[PCustoms]

Fingers crossed it's the damn dryer outlet.

Wasn't the dryer and wasn't the basement sub.

Play with it tomorrow. There's not too many neutrals to check.

My assumption is correct though, with (existing) feed removed, there should be no continuity?

Do any appliances have ground/neutral bond that could throw off my reading?