28mm socket; is it just me?

[rlitman]

I'm changing the ball joints (among a few other things) on my Wrangler, and ran into an issue that has not come up for me before.

I do most of my work on the car with my 1/2" drive deep impact socket set. I've got the Snap On 325SIMM set, which includes (25) deep impact sockets (10–27, 29, 30, 32–36 mm).

(rant on)
First, in removing the hub bearings, I found that each side has a 13mm 12 pointed bolt head, and all of my metric sockets are only 6 pointed. Off to the store to pick up a 12 point socket.

Then, I found out that the castle nut on the lower ball joint is 28mm. What the heck. I thought that I'd be pretty set for whatever comes up with this socket set, but darned if they didn't skip that size. I was able to get the nut off with a 1-1/8" socket, but if it were any more rusted, I'd have risked spinning it and doing myself a real disservice.
(rant off)

And of course, the replacement ball joint uses a 27mm castle nut, so I'm all set for that.

So what's the deal with 28mm nuts, and why does every set I can find seem to skip them? Will I ever be likely to encounter one again, and if so, should I go and buy the socket?

 

[toolaholic]

I have this set and it has a 28mm: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-6-pc-metric-12-pt-1-2-in/p-00934575000P

 

[sberry]

I cant recall needing one but you got it off, that's what counts.

 

[pi_guy]

I am surprised that 1 1/8 did not work and 1 3/16 would have been a better choice.

 

[Michael_in_DE]

I think there were 28mm bolts in the Mercedes suspension I worked on. I had to break down and use a chrome socket on an impact. It looked like a cher concert with all the chrome/glitter flying off that thing as I drove it down.

 

[Renchi]

It's a Jeep thing!

 

[rlitman]

I am surprised that 1 1/8 did not work and 1 3/16 would have been a better choice.

Sorry; my bad. I meant to say 1-1/8", and I've edited my post to reflect that.
Yes, 1-1/8" works out to around 28.6mm.

I had 1-1/8" in both 12-point shallow chrome and 6-point deep impact. I started out with the 12 point and an 18" breaker bar, but stopped before I felt like it was going to round over. That's when I dug up my 6-point SAE impact set (a truly crappy HF set that I keep around only because the 1-1/16" socket is good for water heater anodes), to give it a spin with the impact gun. On that note, my new HF stubby impact is my new favorite tool. But I still hate using a socket with that much play.

It worked, and sberry, you're absolutely right, that's all that counts. Thankfully, this was a case where I was replacing the nut, so I'd have been fine taking a pipe wrench to it if the impact rounded the nut, but I'm now trying to decide if I'm justified in shelling out the $45 for the Snap On socket that fills the gap, or will I never use it again? I prefer using the best sockets available, not because I have the best chances of removing a fastener (I can always find a way to do that), but because I have the best chances of removing that fastener in a re-serviceable condition. One replacement suspension bolt that can only be found at a dealership might be more expensive than that socket.

It's a Jeep thing!

LOL. I understand!

edit: so I ordered a Mac socket on eBay. Now, looking at my impact socket rail will be like looking at a smile with a piece of spinach between two teeth, but I'm not so OCD that I can't handle that.

 

[LXCam]

Good deal OP and proof as too why you still need to have a full assortment of 12 point whatevers. I get sick of the weekly threads asking "do i need 12 point tools". Yes, you need 12 point tools gosh dern it

 

[pi_guy]

Sorry; my bad. I meant to say 1-1/8", and I've edited my post to reflect that.
Yes, 1-1/8" works out to around 28.6mm.

but I'm now trying to decide if I'm justified in shelling out the $45 for the Snap On socket that fills the gap, or will I never use it again? I prefer using the best sockets available, not because I have the best chances of removing a fastener (I can always find a way to do that), but because I have the best)

The 1 1/8 is so close it almost does not matter.
The one issue with SO sockets the degree of variation between the size is non existent.
Where other suppliers trying different sockets you get a range of fits with the same sized socket. I have a set of craftsman deep 1/2 12 point they fit just a little different than my SO sockets.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

There are reasons why some of Us have large sets of 12 point sockets if both chrome and impact.. Nearest parts store is 20 miles away; and they might not stock what is needed.

ditto for the six points; and I am another one who does not like skips.

 

[pi_guy]

There are reasons why some of Us have large sets of 12 point sockets if both chrome and impact.. Nearest parts store is 20 miles away; and they might not stock what is needed.

ditto for the six points; and I am another one who does not like skips.

I have the same only the stores here on LI do not have the options either.

So if I buy one 19mm crowsfoot I have sets in flare do I need to buy the rest of the crowsfeet that match the 19mm

 

[L.Cheapo]

It looked like a cher concert with all the chrome/glitter flying off that thing as I drove it down.

Thats the funniest thing I've read in days.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I have the same only the stores here on LI do not have the options either.

So if I buy one 19mm crowsfoot I have sets in flare do I need to buy the rest of the crowsfeet that match the 19mm

I have flare and crow foot "sets" that include SnapOn, Allen, and KD.. Just checked and noticed I am missing a 20mm crow foot.. Time to go shopping think SK or ProTo might save Me from doom? 20mm is one of the sizes that folks figure they will never need; till the day they do.
Glad I can joke about it and enjoy the discussions.

 

[kelpaso1]

I honestly don't know why any tool manufacturer feels the need to tell us what we need. If I buy a set, I want the whole damn set. Skipping sizes is asinine. I understand not offering a 5mm socket in a 1/2" drive, but please don't skip.

A standard set of 1/2" sockets should start at 8 or 9mm and go to say 22 or 24mm If you need larger, offer a large set from 23mm or 25mm to say 35, and so on.

Why on earth would you need a 8,9,10 mm 1\2" drive sockets for?

 

[LXCam]

Why on earth would you need a 8,9,10 mm 1\2" drive sockets for?

I don't know. But what I do know is the sickness is so strong I recently bought a GW 1/2" drive impact set just because it came with 8 & 9 where my previous set started at 10.







Well that and the fact was the whole set was only $50 shipped

 

[M_George]

I've heard others running into the occasional need for a 28mm socket. So when I found one at a flea market for $1, I added it to my set.

 

[454ragtop]

Meh, use the 1-1/8" and move on, good chance that's what size it was anyway. You guys crack me up buying sockets which you yourself just proved you don't really need. At least now you'll have a nice shiny new one, probably never to be needed again.....

 

[65k10]

I guess I've used 28mm on 1-1/8 fasteners that seemed a bit undersized and a correct 1-1/8 socket fit a bit loose. Probably not necessary, but I keep 28mm socket around for that reason.

 

[straps57]

$30 for a 28 mm wrench for the same problem. Used it once. Wasn't happy.

 

[rlitman]

Why on earth would you need a 8,9,10 mm 1\2" drive sockets for?

I don't know about 8 and 9, but 10mm in 1/2" drive is something I use a lot.

Meh, use the 1-1/8" and move on, good chance that's what size it was anyway. You guys crack me up buying sockets which you yourself just proved you don't really need. At least now you'll have a nice shiny new one, probably never to be needed again.....

Oh, I didn't buy a new one. You're right, I'll likely never need it, so I went for an old one. But, after a long day of work, when I finally find the time to work on the car (or whatever the project of the day is), I hate being derailed for lack of the right tool, so for the next time, I'll be better prepared.

No, this nut was positively metric. And the corners of the nut I removed were all starting to get smushed over by the socket, which, though crappy as it was, did have off-corner engagement. I'm pretty sure that if I used a true hexagonal 1-1/8" socket, it would have rounded. If this were a critical part I needed to reuse, I'd probably have use shim stock to fill in the gaps in the socket's fit, but gladly it never came to that.

 

[cherrybomb]

No its not you.I in a lot of cases use my caliper and sometimes use it to help find a good fit.Bolts and nuts and sockets have tolerances, use what fits,some brands fit better.Sometime check just how close SAE is to a metric,many sizes are very close.Keep an eye on your tools fit,replace when necessary. Some tool makers think its o.k. to skip.IMO it ***** on a Sunday afternoon.

 

[cliftonbros89]

I have a Grey Pneumatic set that doesn't have any skips. I think I also have a craftsman set or 2 that have 28 as well. But I'm pretty positive I've also never needed 28mm. 24, 25, 27, 30, 32, 35, sure but 28? Nope.


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[mbshop]

Well, didn't give it much thought but went outside to check and sure enough, I have a so 28 mm socket that shows that was used during the years on mb that I worked on.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I have two 28 MM in 12 point 3/4" drive sets of Craftsman and HF. Neither have been used so far; however; tomorrow may change that.

 

[Dimitri]

So what's the deal with 28mm nuts, and why does every set I can find seem to skip them?

It's a non-standard size. You might as well be looking for a 19/32" wrench.

ANSI, DIN and JIS specify the following bolt and nut hex sizes...

7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 24, 27, 32, 34, 36

Notice how 15mm isn't included but a **** load of metric bolts use it?

Yah, blame OEM's who screw things up for the rest of us.

Dimitri

 

[rlitman]

...Notice how 15mm isn't included but a **** load of metric bolts use it?

Yah, blame OEM's who screw things up for the rest of us...

Makes sense. 14mm is one of my most used sockets. My 9mm and 15mm sockets get used all the time too, and a 25mm wrench saved me from ruining an important part on a hitch-mount rack once. I can't say I recall using 20mm or 23mm, but I know I've got them.

And you're right. Now that I think about it, these sizes are ONLY on OEM fasteners. Which brings me full circle. OEM fasteners are so darned expensive, I don't want to ruin one with the wrong tool.

 

[General Geoff]

14mm and 15mm are all over the place on my '06 Zephyr (and presumably, all first gen Fusions/Milans/possibly Mazda6s), suspension and brakes. I would not buy a socket set without them.

 

[bigdav160]

Makes sense. 14mm is one of my most used sockets. My 9mm and 15mm sockets get used all the time too, and a 25mm wrench saved me from ruining an important part on a hitch-mount rack once. I can't say I recall using 20mm or 23mm, but I know I've got them.

And you're right. Now that I think about it, these sizes are ONLY on OEM fasteners. Which brings me full circle. OEM fasteners are so darned expensive, I don't want to ruin one with the wrong tool.

I am not sure I have ever seen a 9mm headed fastener of any type.

15mm is common on domestic vehicles.

25mm is likely a 1"

20mm, 23mm nope.

 

[rlitman]

...25mm is likely a 1"...

Nope. 1" is 25.4mm. This was a critical bolt on a hitch-mount bike rack. I seem to remember it being for a hinge adjustment, and was custom for this application. A 1" wrench was too loose, and again, risked rounding the corners.

I happened to have picked up a 25mm Gearwrench ratcheting wrench literally for pennies on clearance. The store was getting rid of that open-stock size, because they never sold (wonder why...), and I figured, I'd find a place for it, even if it never got used, so I was quite pleased when I finally used it.

 

[6PTsocket]

I am surprised that 1 1/8 did not work and 1 3/16 would have been a better choice.

1 1/8 is about 28.6mm 1 3/16 would have been an even looser fit.

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[rlitman]

1 1/8 is about 28.6mm 1 3/16 would have been an even looser fit.

Sorry for starting the confusion. He was responding to my original post, where I incorrectly stated that I used a 1-1/4" socket.

 

[6PTsocket]

I honestly don't know why any tool manufacturer feels the need to tell us what we need. If I buy a set, I want the whole damn set. Skipping sizes is asinine. I understand not offering a 5mm socket in a 1/2" drive, but please don't skip.

A standard set of 1/2" sockets should start at 8 or 9mm and go to say 22 or 24mm If you need larger, offer a large set from 23mm or 25mm to say 35, and so on.

I think it is a cost thing. Some sizes are rarely used. Most people will never need them and would rather save money up front. Those few that need them can fill in with open stock. I just looked; practically everybody makes a 28mm. I wish most metric tap and die sets did not include 7mm. Anybody ever use one? Anybody ever see a 7mm nut or bolt?

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[pi_guy]

1 1/8 is about 28.6mm 1 3/16 would have been an even looser fit.

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My 1 3/16 suggestion was based on the original post number of 1 1/4 used.
Which was amended to 1 1/8.

 

[L.Cheapo]

I am not sure I have ever seen a 9mm headed fastener of any type.

15mm is common on domestic vehicles.

25mm is likely a 1"

20mm, 23mm nope.

9mm is sometimes found on brake bleeders.

20mm is occasionally seen on power steering lines.

 

[md21722]

I'm changing the ball joints (among a few other things) on my Wrangler, and ran into an issue that has not come up for me before.

At least through 2001, the ball joints are SAE thread. If your working on a TJ its probably the same through 2006 as the axles were largely unchanged. 1-1/8" lower and 7/8" upper. Yes 28mm will fit tighter, but it's SAE thread. Just about everything in the axles is SAE. Notable exceptions are the 36mm stub axle nut & 13mm 12 point unit bearing bolts. The steering is primarily SAE too. I think only the adjustment sleeves are metric. Basically anything that was originally SAE in the axle housings, steering box, 2.5/4.0L engine block/head were kept SAE. D44 Rubicon's axle MAY be different.

If your Jeep is a LJ/JK then this information is probably wrong.

 

[knobby]

It's a Jeep thing!

That and rusty *** torx bolts.

 

[F124C]

I think it is a cost thing. Some sizes are rarely used. Most people will never need them and would rather save money up front. Those few that need them can fill in with open stock. I just looked; practically everybody makes a 28mm I wish most metric tap and die sets did not include 7mm. Anybody ever use one? Anybody ever see a 7mm nut or bolt?
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I've encountered 7mm fasteners occasionally on old stuff.

Puch mopeds (Austrian) from the 1950's used 7mm studs to clamp the engine cylinder/head. Iirc the corresponding nuts were 9mm wrench size.

Some older Weber carb installations used 7mm studs (instead of the normal 8mm) to clamp in position on the inlet manifold. Iirc these also used 9mm nuts (wrench size).

AL.

 

[L.Cheapo]

Anybody ever use one? Anybody ever see a 7mm nut or bolt?

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2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee. 7mm is the size of the head of the long vertical bolt you need to remove to remove the headlight assembly to change the bulb.

 

[MikeF2316]

I think it is a cost thing. Some sizes are rarely used. Most people will never need them and would rather save money up front. Those few that need them can fill in with open stock. I just looked; practically everybody makes a 28mm. I wish most metric tap and die sets did not include 7mm. Anybody ever use one? Anybody ever see a 7mm nut or bolt?

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The engine in my Volvo (inline 5) has dozens of 7 mm bolts. I've been told that the French like to use 7 mm bolts in their cars.

And on topic, I have a 28 mm 12 point chrome socket, and a 6 point impact. The chrome one is a Craftsman USA, and looks like it's been used once or twice. The impact came in a set from Princess Auto. One thing I like about Princess Auto, their sets have no skips.

 

[T45]

I think it is a cost thing.
...

I wish most metric tap and die sets did not include 7mm. Anybody ever use one? Anybody ever see a 7mm nut or bolt?

Agree that people being cheap is why tools have skips. In the larger sizes, very few 1/2 drive sizes are actually used (ie, 27, 30, 32 = qty 3) meaning that 25, 26, 28, 29, 31(=qty5) would mean more than half of the cost of the set (>24mm) would be useless for 99% of the time.

I say if you want completeness on these kinds of sizes just buy some cheap tools and put them on the shelf. And while you're at it, also don't forget that 20mm and 23mm are OEM spec in some places (i think Kia ? it came up here once before...).

7mm is almost impossible to even buy hardware for (as m7). However, in cheap kits its probably useful in case you strip out something m6; just be aware you cannot actually buy m7 hardware in the normal course. Its available only special ordering from something like Fastenal, but not stocked by them even brick and mortar (at least around here). In expensive tooling, I would never buy outside an emergency/specific use case.

For an "in preperandum" investment, I would probably look for a Time-sert kit/STI tap for M6 which uses a ~7mm pilot (ie, pretty close to m7 but different). (don't ask me how I know this )