44 Bikes Frame Shop

[fortyfour]

If you wouldn't mind could you elaborate on how you get the joints so tight. Do you only use a tubing notcher or do you also fine tune it after? And how do you measure for the cuts so they hit exactly where you want them to?
Thanks in advance
Rick.

HI Rick-

Good question. It all starts with a good drawing. All of my measurements, angles etc. are all mapped out ahead of time for me to reference. All of the tube to tube miters (or copes if you prefer that jargon) are performed on specific tooling. Here's the main tube mitering set up (top tube, down tube and some times seat tube):



Here's a close up at the cut. Mid cut I've taken off the excess so it does not interfere with the rest of the cut (in this case, it is the down tube):



Don't let this photo fool you - this is a rather large and heavy piece of tooling. The set up is very rigid and carries a lot of mass to soak up any vibration that resonates from the cut. RPM's of the head on my mill are very slow and the cut is equally as slow. To get good tight miters, one of the keys is to utilize the mass of the head on the mill as well. Tubes get two tubing blocks. One at the end of the cut and one in the center which follows the tube throughout the process until it is finished. This allows me to index each cut and I reference the drawing for angles/measurements. All tubes are mitered and assembled into my frame jig:



I use another specific piece of tooling for the bottom bracket assembly too:



Here's a bunch of process specific tooling:



Most of the clean up happens with file and tube/tubing block in a vise. I clean, get rid of any burs and polish the inside / outside of each tube at the cut. One cut I will do by hand is the Down Tube to Seat Tube crotch for mountain bikes that sport a radius seat tube. Often I will make the initial cut on the machine, and then slowly tune it by hand with appropriate sized files. Here's that spot coming together. This one is JUST about finished - you can see there's just a little bit of room still left at the bottom bracket and I'm fine tuning that seat tube to down tube junction by hand:



The other place I actually miter/fit by hand are the seat stay bridges, and if Disc Brakes are used, I'll do the fitting of the ISO disk mount and it's brace by hand as well:



Here's the parts out separately:



And the Seat Stay Bridge fitted - this one is about to be silver brazed into place - I just use a simple piece of 1/8" weld wire bent/fitted to hold this in place using the seat tube slot as an anchor:



My hole saw of choice is Starrett. The more teeth the better. These are just bimetal hole saws on a 3/4" arbor, used in the Bridgeport with it's R8 collets. There is a saying " A lathe is a beautiful thing". Well, a Bridgeport is even MORE beautiful. I purposefully purchased this machine first and it is literally the heart of my shop. Every tool I made I machined on my Bridgeport. I now have a lathe, but honestly, none of this couldn't have happened without my bridgeport.

For those interested:

Here is the set for my tooling builds.

Here's the set for the frame jig.

If there are any other questions or something I missed or is not clear, just let me know. I'd be happy to explain. There is more than one way to skin this cat of course! Hope that helps.

 

[crawler07]

Wow thanks a ton for the detailed explanation It answered a lot of questions for me. Your tooling is a work of art in its self and your attention to detail is out of this world. I just bought a used lathe and now after hearing how important your mill is to you I will start looking for a good used one for the shop. Thanks again!

 

[kjdhawkhill]

KHenry - Just saw the 2011 post on another platform. Do you have something brewing or is that nostalgia?

 

[fergus]

How has it been three months since this thread has been updated? Natives are restless...

 

[vegar]

Fantastic work. What material are you using in the frame?? Could it have been ordered with the welds visible??

 

[fortyfour]

Sorry all for the lack of updates - just been busy making bikes and riding! I've got some shop improvements planned though, so I'll be sure to share here.

KHenry - Just saw the 2011 post on another platform. Do you have something brewing or is that nostalgia?

Nostalgia honestly - I still come through the doors and can't believe where I was a few years ago. Then again, it's a good reminder of a plan realized with patience and persistence (The plan was officially "hatched" over 15 years ago).

How has it been three months since this thread has been updated? Natives are restless...

Hope this appeases the natives. I recently took order of another rolling tool cabinet to finally put all things Bridgeport and Lathe into one corner. I'm already feeling a bit quicker as I work and I like that everything is just a hands reach away.











And from this week - going to be welding this one up today:

Fantastic work. What material are you using in the frame?? Could it have been ordered with the welds visible??

Frames are built from steel (True Temper specifically). Unfortunately, if you clear coat a frame, it will rust under the clear no matter what you do. However, this is kind of where Titanium comes into play and well, there will be more on that at a later date...

 

[AP2TUDE]

You should make a few of those "I Promise to Ride my Bicycle" signs. I would totally buy one of those.

Love the photographs, love the attention to detail. Stuff like this makes my OCD heart happy.

 

[fergus]

Man, it always looks so...zen...in your shop. I endeavor to fit mine out in a similar manner.

 

[RXtacy]

However, this is kind of where Titanium comes into play and well, there will be more on that at a later date...

Really looking forward to seeing this!

 

[firecracker]

Awesome Fantastic bikes.

 

[snowphun]

Great work. It's stuff like this that makes me want to move out to the open spaces.

 

[fortyfour]

You should make a few of those "I Promise to Ride my Bicycle" signs. I would totally buy one of those.

Love the photographs, love the attention to detail. Stuff like this makes my OCD heart happy.

Thanks - FYI I have all 3 of these printed and you can pick up one or two or all three here...

 

[vegar]

A frame in Ti would be just fantastic

 

[CubbyChowder]

I may have said it once before, but I am very impressed with your jigs. I am always wishing I had nice jigs for certain things that I build, but all of my projects are so different that I usually have to build a quick and simple one for that specific job and never use it again. Would like to start building more consistent items that would allow me to build a nice jig and use it over and over, like you have.

Keep up the top quality work!

 

[kjdhawkhill]

Sorry all for the lack of updates - just been busy making bikes and riding! I've got some shop improvements planned though, so I'll be sure to share here.

Nostalgia honestly - I still come through the doors and can't believe where I was a few years ago. Then again, it's a good reminder of a plan realized with patience and persistence (The plan was officially "hatched" over 15 years ago).

Apology accepted in the form of a 61cm Hunstman, CX-race trail with moderate CX BB drop… You pick the color and I'll build it and ride it. I promise to ride [my/the] bicycle.

Actually, your shop might be 15 years in the making, but a custom frame is probably a 15 year plan for me. Steel has such appeal for a guy like me who rides at a medium heavy weight and can ham-fist the bike in any situation. Ti, has the same appeal, only faster.

No apologies necessary. If I had a deposit down, I'd be frustrated every time you posted a shop pic and not a build pic.

 

[buildyourown]

Could you share a shop layout?

I am a hobby builder and I'm trying to fit all my stuff in my shop. Do you have a welding table or large surface plate?

FWIW, I built a bike and shot it with clear rattlecan almost 10yrs ago. Still looks fine. Not my winter bike obviously.

 

[TGL]

Could you share the model and brand of the big tap handle that has the chamfering tool in it?

 

[56rpm]

Well, I knew you made your own mandrels which is crazy good. But going thru your flicker pics I see you made your own tubing bender, of course! Talent overload me thinks. Kudos to all you do, and at a top shelf level! Fab p0rn at its best.

 

[1/2 Cup]

What more does one need to say other than

 

[fortyfour]

Could you share a shop layout?

I have a rough sketch that I'll scan and post up.

Could you share the model and brand of the big tap handle that has the chamfering tool in it?

So that big one is from my Grandfathers stash. It's a Craftsman. I'll have to check the model number but what is really cool about this tap is it has a lever on it that allows it work work like a ratchet. So it locks, or flip it left or right and it ratchets either direction. I love it. But I'll look up what the model number is when I'm in the shop today (not committed to memory).

Well, I knew you made your own mandrels which is crazy good. But going thru your flicker pics I see you made your own tubing bender, of course! Talent overload me thinks. Kudos to all you do, and at a top shelf level! Fab p0rn at its best.

Thanks. When you make things, you gotta figure out how to hold the things you're making! I love that part of the process as much as actually making the bikes.

 

[Hostyle]

Man... this thread just brightens my day. Great design, workmanship and photography in one thread, winning! Keep it up!

 

[TGL]

[...]
So that big one is from my Grandfathers stash. It's a Craftsman. I'll have to check the model number but what is really cool about this tap is it has a lever on it that allows it work work like a ratchet. So it locks, or flip it left or right and it ratchets either direction. I love it. But I'll look up what the model number is when I'm in the shop today (not committed to memory).
[...]

As always, thank you. Now that I know the maker, I think the model is 4342?

 

[fortyfour]

As always, thank you. Now that I know the maker, I think the model is 4342?

You are correct: Craftsman No. 4342! Here's a closer shot. I love this tool.

 

[Nicnumber1]

So getting into Mtn Biking, used to ride BMX and MX. Love your shop, builds, machining, and bikes. Your design and graphics are second to none as well. Total package here! I'm into form over function and really just things that are different, just picked up a 2008 Jamis Parker 2 frame. Want to build it, what would you suggest for Cross country? Got a lot of different opinions but would be interested In your thought process for a novice rider.

 

[86turbodsl]

Wow, i just ran across this thread. You have a very nice space to work and you do beautiful work in it. I'll keep looking for more from now on!

 

[cfranzrado]

Really impressive progression with the shop, tooling, welding, etc. The final product looks great!

There are some photos of a fork batch that has some 29+ and fat bike uni-crown forks (Page 48). What fork blades are you using?

 

[fortyfour]

Really impressive progression with the shop, tooling, welding, etc. The final product looks great!

There are some photos of a fork batch that has some 29+ and fat bike uni-crown forks (Page 48). What fork blades are you using?

Thank you.

The uni-crown blades are True Temper.

Here's a recent shot of some True Temper blades being welded up:



And some additional True Temper tubes post weld:





And of course, in the hot seat:







Recent Work:





Last but not least, I've been ramping up my practice with Titanium. So here's a box of practice - looking forward to this and some new tooling I've got planned that is titanium centric...

 

[vic m]

Just a quick thought. Have you seen the reasonably priced pyrex cups and diffusers that my friend Mike Furick makes? They might make work easier in your tight spaces. Mike does a bunch of high end exhaust for race cars (headers, collectors), turbo stuff, and pro-stock
m/c frames. Take a look at <dogfab.com>

vic

 

[old-air-performance]

Beautiful builds
Beautiful bikes
Beautiful pictures

I love this thread

Keep up the good work!

 

[zmotorsports]

Beautiful builds
Beautiful bikes
Beautiful pictures

I love this thread

Keep up the good work!

^^Ditto.

Mike.

 

[ric]

If you are getting into Ti you probably know my buddy Mark at Paragon Machine Works ?
His shop used to be across from mine before he moved over to Richmond. Very nice guy with great products.

 

[nwdustin]

skimmed some of this thread last night while waiting for the mcgregor fight. Missed a bunch of the work on the building, but thoroughly enjoyed the bike building. Grew up riding bmx and still have a few frames hanging on the wall. Love a well built bike, though don't get to see stuff like this in the bmx world very often. Great work!

 

[kjdhawkhill]

Grew up riding bmx and still have a few frames hanging on the wall.

N+1 never grows old?

Love a well built bike, though don't get to see stuff like this in the bmx world very often. Great work!

I've never ridden BMX, but why don't people demand better then? In a full bore sprint (30-90 seconds right?), you'd think a very specific set of traits would be a big advantage to the riders.


There was a fight? I hope you weren't the guy who paid for a 15 minute main event and got a 12 second knockout… I think I saw 5-6 seconds of the knockout in a GIF.

 

[nwdustin]

N+1 never grows old?

I actually don't get this reference, lol

I've never ridden BMX, but why don't people demand better then? In a full bore sprint (30-90 seconds right?), you'd think a very specific set of traits would be a big advantage to the riders.

I think the main thing is not a ton of money backing the sport. The main demographic is high school aged kids. Sure, I'm in my 30's and there are plenty of people riding in their 20's, but you don't have the money like they do in MTB and road bikes. There is stuff out there and you can get frames custom built, but not much like what we see in this thread.

There was a fight? I hope you weren't the guy who paid for a 15 minute main event and got a 12 second knockout… I think I saw 5-6 seconds of the knockout in a GIF.

I offered to pitch in 10 bucks before the match. My girlfriend and I had nothing better to do, so it wasn't a complete loss. We watched most of the prior fights and had a pretty good night with some friends. I would never pay $50 for a fight on TV, ever...

 

[Hostyle]

I actually don't get this reference, lol

The best amount of bikes (human or motor powered) is always N+1, where N is the amount of bikes you currently have

 

[fortyfour]

Just a quick thought. Have you seen the reasonably priced pyrex cups and diffusers that my friend Mike Furick makes? They might make work easier in your tight spaces. Mike does a bunch of high end exhaust for race cars (headers, collectors), turbo stuff, and pro-stock
m/c frames. Take a look at <dogfab.com>

I have seen them however it appears they are meant for 3/32 and my tungsten is 1/16. Not sure if that would make a difference but one other thing I have noted about the pyrex cups I have tried coming from the larger alumina nozzles is that I feel like I lose some control with the smaller nozzles (I tend to old the torch physically by the nozzle instead of the handle. Being that the pyrex nozzles are "press on", instead of screw on, I wind up kind of pulling them off mid weld which isn't good. I'd like to try one but I'm hesitant given these factors. I also don't see any advantage of pyrex/visibility. If anything it distorts the weld if viewed through the pyrex.

vic

If you are getting into Ti you probably know my buddy Mark at Paragon Machine Works ?
His shop used to be across from mine before he moved over to Richmond. Very nice guy with great products.

I do know Mark and Paragon Machine Works is a long time OE supplier of mine. Pretty much all my head tubes, bottom brackets, dropouts and braze-on's are sourced from Paragon. They're a good bunch, who offer high quality product and stand behind it 110%.

 

[fortyfour]

Just a quick thought. Have you seen the reasonably priced pyrex cups and diffusers that my friend Mike Furick makes? They might make work easier in your tight spaces. Mike does a bunch of high end exhaust for race cars (headers, collectors), turbo stuff, and pro-stock
m/c frames. Take a look at <dogfab.com>

vic

Appears my reply got mixed into the quoted message. Let's try that again...

I have seen them however it appears they are meant for 3/32 and my tungsten is 1/16. Not sure if that would make a difference but one other thing I have noted about the pyrex cups I have tried coming from the larger alumina nozzles is that I feel like I lose some control with the smaller nozzles (I tend to old the torch physically by the nozzle instead of the handle. Being that the pyrex nozzles are "press on", instead of screw on, I wind up kind of pulling them off mid weld which isn't good. I'd like to try one but I'm hesitant given these factors. I also don't see any advantage of pyrex/visibility. If anything it distorts the weld if viewed through the pyrex.

 

[kjdhawkhill]

I think the main thing is not a ton of money backing the sport. The main demographic is high school aged kids. Sure, I'm in my 30's and there are plenty of people riding in their 20's, but you don't have the money like they do in MTB and road bikes.

There is stuff out there and you can get frames custom built, but not much like what we see in this thread...

It is tough to find stuff like 44bikes in a bike shop, and even tougher to imagine a 16 year old forking out custom-type money.

And I guess I have to remember that I didn't "demand" anything (when I bought them) from my bikes except reliability. I've come to appreciate some finer touches since then.

I just hope that our finances lighten up a bit in the next few years so I can seriously consider something from 44 or a competitor.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fortyfour]

Had my first tussle with Titanium this past friday. What a learning experience! Super excited. It's taken a few months to get everything dialed in with my setup. Reason it's been taking large span's of time between sessions is I do this between builds and when I have some free time. If I had my way, I'd just close down shop and not reopen until it's all dialed but that's not realistic. But the process has allowed me to take my time, read a lot, ask a lot of piers appropriate questions, do a lot of listening and subsequently do a lot of learning. In many ways it's similar to many materials I've worked with in the past, but in many other ways it's very different. And on that note, very little of my experience from working with steel transfers over. It's a bit like learning how to weld and build bikes all over again.

But to get the best "classroom" setting I could, I wanted to replicate the restrictions I'll be working under when I build bikes out of titanium so it only made sense to use the materials and parts for practice. That meant some investment and making up some dummy front triangles. I have been doing a lot of practice joints and felt confident to make the jump to actually welding up a mock front triangle. Here's the first shot doing my fusion pass for the head tube:



This allowed me to not only get used to the material, but also to test positioning, check all my tools for purge, check purge for the feed where the argon was entering and venting, weld position, machine settings (which are vastly different from steel and vastly different from Fusion to Filler Pass). Check my process and methodology. Check machining speeds/feeds. It's goes on and on. Here's a filler pass:



I worked from the bottom bracket towards the head tube but jumped around a bunch allowing the material to cool sufficiently between passes. I ended with the head tube and by that last weld of the head tube to down tube, things started to click:



Not perfect, but a good start and I feel like I'm getting somewhere with good argon coverage and what appears to be good back purge too. Best part is I'll cut this up, inspect, take notes and start all over again albeit with a slightly smaller front triangle. Here's a few better shots allowing you to see the welds a bit better. Not perfect, but it's getting there:







That last shot of the bottom bracket shows a little straw color in the corners but still good purge and coverage with the nice shiny welds. I've got more joints lined up for this Monday too:



The mock up front triangle is about a 56 or 57cm frame (That's typically the length of the Seat Tube/Top Tube) to give you an idea of size:



Stoked? More than stoked!

Here's a frame that shipped this week along with 3 others. This one was liquid paint:









Can't wait to get back at it Monday. Really excited as things start to come together and their is some light at the end of the tunnel with titanium. Enjoy!

 

[E12-535iTurbo]

You're taking it to a whole new level! I'd be in heaven to reach the level of welds in stainless you are disposing for being not perfect while welding titanium. It's also the display in patients and preparation that is really inspiring!

Thanks for sharing!