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44 Bikes Frame Shop

BoilermakerFan

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Oh, you're asking about the weld at the top of seat tube just below the top tube tube and seat stays...

I'm with you now. More than likely the portion where the seat stays and tube tube join is a heavier wall. The rest of the seat tube can be thinner to reduce weight.
 
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fortyfour

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I guess I should rephrase the question.
I was wondering why that joint was there.
The purpose of that joint.
Thanks

Not a common place for a joint on most bikes.

@NickelTwin: So I get this question a lot. Happy to explain! So this is a really high stress are of any bicycle but especially a mountain bike because the top tubes tend to be "low slung" and more seat post is exposed be it rigid or a dropper post. Here's a finished close up of the area in question:



Basically the seat post is attempting to drive itself though the seat stays. The seat post acts like a lever arm. So often depending on how the seat stays are biased (either too close together or too far apart) a crack will form on the inside or outside of the seat stay/seat tube junction. The seat tube, if not thick enough is basically trying to ovalize under load. Put that junction through enough cycles and IF the seat tubes wall thickness is not thick enough, you get a failure. So to combat that, I use a CNC'd collar which has a step machined into it to be pressed inside of the top of the seat tube and then welded into place. The thicker wall of the CNC'd part puts lots of material in a critical high stress area of the bike. Thicker wall = less flex under load which means that failures are less likely to occur if everything is done correctly during fit up and welding. Here's where I'm tuning up the step in the CNC'd collar:



You can see the collar/seat tube in this group shot:



Fit:



Welded:

 
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fortyfour

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So this weekend I was excited to dig into this project. Hammer drill rented and waiting for me.. First up was mounting the new cast iron vise stand. It's an old Baldor grinder base for those wondering. Not a problem to find WITH the grinder attached, but they seldom come up just by themselves. Suddenly the previous week someone had a handful of them in New Jersey so I sprang into action. I'm calling this one "Miami Vise".



I've also been sitting on a larger Wilton 4 1/2" bullet style vise for some time. So the shorter cast iron base is made up just about to the original height thanks to the larger vise. After using the previous set up for some time, I wanted to lower it a bit. Also as I'd been working with the older vise stand, I often found myself balancing files on the back of the base's top or resting a hacksaw/drill there too. So with this new set up, I wanted to put a "wing" between base and vise to create a bit more work space. This one's temporary to figure out just how long I want it to be and perhaps refine the shape a bit more too. I may end up making it out of aluminum and machine an integrated file caddy to one side. Or I may make it out of maple and have one side be a aluminum machined file caddy. Either case... the base will be painted machine gray in the spring or on a warm day so I can open up the doors and I'll also add a stencil to the work top. But for now, this will allow me to work with this new set up and make any final refinements I see fit:



Also ALL my files now have a home! That free's up some bench top work space too.



Once I finalized the new vise stand, that meant I could repurpose the old vise stand to be my new TIG welding stand. I've had this idea for far too long so it felt good to see it done. The previous welding stand was a bit too high and the vise on the floor as a mooring often was getting in the way and robbing me of foot room. Also the previous set up wasn't all that rigid. This one's super solid. It's also a bit lower and moves the work out into the floor a bit more. I also wanted to add a bit of work space for often used stainless brushes, clamps and such.





One last item to add is a stud at the back towards the bottom for the welders lead. That way the entire stand can be grounded and then I can add a smaller lead from clamp assembly to frame. That will free up a lot of space and weight and time during welding.



Then the last phase of this whole counter clockwise set of shop improvements was to move the bench mounted stand to the cantilevered tube shelf on the other side of the shop. This will move finishing and such to this side of the shop away from the welding area. The jack is there just in case things sag - Next project is the secure the top to the base and make a pair of feet for the cantilevered tubing shelf:



Super stoked I got all this done this weekend! Also added a clock finally to the wall.. I'll take more pics once more projects are finished up. But I'm excited to work with this new set up as it really opened up a bunch more opportunities while working and freed up more floor space which is nice.
 
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fortyfour

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The updates and setup look great.

In the pic above though, it looks like you have a major crack in the floor. Is it that bad or just an optical illusion in the pic?


Oh it's that bad! The way the structure was built, the poured a foundation footer, then built a block foundation on top of that but then poured a skim coat of variable thickness in the range of 2-3" on top of bare earth inside the foundation. They should have poured a slab and built up off of that, but that's not what they did. And since the structure was never insulated, it was colder inside than out most of it's life so the floor just kept heaving. When I first started the build, I really agonized whether to first re-pour the floor but I just did not have the funds to pour the floor and build it out. So the same darn thing could have happened to the new floor. So I had to build out the shop/insulate it first or continue to wait till I had saved up for the whole project. But since I had already been waiting so long, I decided that I wanted to build bikes and I'd have to design everything so I could move it out of the shop at a later date, cut up the floor, and pour the floor at a later date. Which means a big shutdown once I'm ready for that (which actually looks to be soon!) but at least the floor will be protected once it's done right.

Hope that makes sense. It's definitely not ideal. I wanted to build bikes and could still work with the floor - it just took some planning to find the best spots for everything...
 

BoilermakerFan

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Makes perfect sense. And once you have all the locations dialed in you can even add a little extra material in those locations in the new pour. Do they recommend fiber reinforcement over rebar in your area to combat the freeze/thaw cycles and heaving?

I don't mind cracked floors, I like the character, but when they are still heaving and shifting then it's a PITA. Amazingly, the floor in my cheapo garage has made it through two earthquakes in the past 17 years without settling and cracking. Our house settled after the first one a bit and a few cracks in the plaster walls opened up, but I patched them and they haven't come back...
 

ClintNZ

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Great looking shop & your bikes are beautiful! Nothing like a nice steel frame, my main ride is a SIR9 SS.

I need a decent bike workstand in my shed, good to check out what the pro's use. Park tool stuff is $$$ over here though!

Cheers
Clint
 
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fortyfour

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Great looking shop & your bikes are beautiful! Nothing like a nice steel frame, my main ride is a SIR9 SS.

I need a decent bike workstand in my shed, good to check out what the pro's use. Park tool stuff is $$$ over here though!

Cheers
Clint

There's certainly a lot to choose from. I'm not sure what your budget is or what pricing would be in NZ, but Park definitely makes reliable equipment. Here's an article via Bicycling Mag with a bunch of options from high to low.

I know I've found some Park tools via eBay often when I'm looking for a high ticket item. Even though I have OE accounts, some times with tools I can find them below cost if they are well taken care of which is fine with me.
 

dchance

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Kristofer, I have enjoyed you thread and the attention to detail, and the pictures. I hope the New Year is good to you and the challenges before you. I appreciate the effort put forth.

Dwight
 
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fortyfour

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Kristofer, I have enjoyed you thread and the attention to detail, and the pictures. I hope the New Year is good to you and the challenges before you. I appreciate the effort put forth.

Dwight

Thanks for the kind words and glad you have been enjoying the thread.

Here's a handful of before/after shots from past to present. Getting a little year end perspective today.

Before (Original state of this corner - the stud wall is where the horse stalls used to be):

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During Build:

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After:

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Before / During Build Out:

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After:

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Before / During Build Out:

9777406702_61c6535b94_b.jpg44 Frame Shop :: North Wall by Kristofer Henry, on Flickr

After:

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Outside..

Before:

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After / Summer:

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After / Winter:

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BoilermakerFan

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Very cool man! I guess I missed or forgot about the horse stalls.

When I build a barn shop, I'm going to build in a couple of "stalls" for my finished motorcycles. But since you build bikes for a living, I guess you needed the space for storage...
 
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fortyfour

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New Vise Stand just about finished up. Shaped the workspace a bit after using it for a handful of weeks:





Affords me a bit of usable space for "in-use" hand files, hacksaw, drill and etc's.
 
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fortyfour

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I need more FortyFour

Me too!!!! Love this thread

Here you go. Two recent builds out the door...









If anyone is in Hartford, CT this weekend, head over to the convention center to check out the North American Handmade Bicycle Show and go to Shimano's booth which has that yellow Huntsman road bike in it for display. I don't have a booth space this year, but will be walking the show floor Sunday before taking that bike back to the shop with me...
 
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Ryan

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Man... I haven't sat down with this thread in months... and finally did so this morning. I'm pretty sure this is my favorite shop on TGJ. It's gorgeous and the talent within is just stupid good.

Keep doing what you are doing.
 

paredown

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Man... I haven't sat down with this thread in months... and finally did so this morning. I'm pretty sure this is my favorite shop on TGJ. It's gorgeous and the talent within is just stupid good.

Keep doing what you are doing.

Me too--I've been reading in spurts in between doing some real work--and catching up after posting on this thread way, way back...

Absolutely the best thread--mirrors a lot of my interests--design, well made things, craftsmanship, bikes and more.

Dean
 

TheEquineFencer

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Me too--I've been reading in spurts in between doing some real work--and catching up after posting on this thread way, way back...

Absolutely the best thread--mirrors a lot of my interests--design, well made things, craftsmanship, bikes and more.

Dean

I wish I could TIG like he does...I wish I could TIG period....

I'm waiting to see a "Harley Springer Clone" I bet it would be awesome....
 
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fortyfour

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I wish I could TIG like he does...I wish I could TIG period....

I'm waiting to see a "Harley Springer Clone" I bet it would be awesome....

Thanks all for the kind words.

@TheEquineFencer: You can TIG like this. It's all simply practice. Every time I pick up the torch I learn something new and build on my skill set. I think one of the toughest spots to weld on a bike frame is actually the facing sides of the seat tube/top tube. Typically this tube to tube joint has vexed me in the past but I've learned by practice and experimentation just how much heat and power to carry as I move around the tubes to the faces. Typically I wasn't delivering enough heat so the welds were a bit on the cold side and not producing a nice fillet. But it seems within the past 10-15 frames this has been getting better and better.

Like so:



I always really enjoy all the tight spots for some reason. Especially this larger T47 bottom brackets where you have to move relatively quickly and keep an eye on your heat input so they don't distort:





Few additional shots:







That's all for this recent 29er SS:



Working on some new tooling for the Di-Acro No. 4 so I'll share when it's all finished up. Enjoy!
 

dchance

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I enjoy your thread and I like the work ethic that you have. It is educational to watch people do quality work.

Dwight
 
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fortyfour

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Next on the list: .875" x 5CLR Die for the Di-Acro No. 4.

0. Make hole pattern for the blank (For those wondering they are 1.06" apart. First hole is a 1" hole and the second is a .75" hole. 1" hole is 2.5" from the back side of the die centered - these are the measurements for a No. 4 bender by the way.):

39795509344_954e7c4f7b_b.jpg

1. Start each side roughing out the material in a series of steps:

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2. This brings me close to the finished radius. It also makes the last two passes on my Bridgeport a bit faster/easier:

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3. With both flats pre-machined, onto the rotary table it goes with some custom tooling. Centering the mill's head off the rotary tables center:

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4. First step above is to rough out the radius (in this case the center line radius, aka CLR is 5.00") again using that same stepped relief process. I'm using a right angle attachment. Mill is still on center:

38925388440_ebfb8f0605_b.jpg

5. And then make the final set of passes. Last one I actually bring the spindle speed up a bit so we're humming along for a really nice clean cut:

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6. Rough blank with all edges deburred and edge break added by hand & file. There's a bit of hand finish work to be done on the transitions and die faces:

40692891182_d147328e94_b.jpg

7. Here comes the fun part bringing the part through the steps of emery cloth and then steps of 400 and 600 grit wet dry wrapped on a .75" OD tube to bring it close to .875" OD. This step just takes patience with a lot of stepping back and forth between grits and fine file work and checking with my finger tips. One thing I was taught is that some methods require you to use all your faculties and often your fingers can tell a lot more than what your eyes are "seeing":

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8. Finished die with a shallow blind slot for its radius to be stamped:

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Close up:

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9. Next is the clamp block. Same method:

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10. Designations stamped!

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11. Complete set up. Just have to make a follower...

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3 down. 2 more to go!

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BoilermakerFan

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Sweet Job Kristofer!

If you get any malformation, you can try to change the profile of the die and wiper a little. We actually had dies that were slightly oval or more egg shaped. It pinched down the tubing and uses the steel's natural spring back to finish perfectly round with any accordion, ripple, or ovalation.

The other thing that is key is the lubricant. The best is a really thick grease rendered from pig lard made by Pfau Oil. The tubing company I worked for was having issues on a large die draw bench on seamless tubing. It didn't go away until they switched to the Pfau grease. But, it sticks to clothing like glue, so invest in Tyvek disposable suits.

Cro-Mo and Ti might be more forgiving, but it's really required for SS that galls and sticks so easily to steel dies. The grease also prevented carbon deposit contamination, also caused by the galling.
 
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fortyfour

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Sweet Job Kristofer!

If you get any malformation, you can try to change the profile of the die and wiper a little. We actually had dies that were slightly oval or more egg shaped. It pinched down the tubing and uses the steel's natural spring back to finish perfectly round with any accordion, ripple, or ovalation.

Thanks for the information and tips. From what I have found with this bender is two things: Point of tangency and back pressure. If I put too much pressure on the follower, I get a bit of a bulge at the end of the bend. So there was a bit of trial/error to understand how much pressure to add to the roller that is up against the follower. The other thing I noticed in conjunction with that back pressure was point of tangency. Typically, you want to maintain point of tangency through the bend but with this bender, it actually benefits from having the point of tangency just a little bit ahead of where the tube meets the die and follower for tighter bends to eliminate deformation.

<SNIP>

The other thing that is key is the lubricant.

The lubricant in steel's case here is the mill finish. I wipe them down to remove any of the grit adhered to the mill finish but with this small of tubing, a lubricant like grease is not necessary. Also... I'd have to clean that all off and especially with Titanium, I'm really hesitant to add anything like that to the process because if there's even a slight whiff of residue leftover... my welds would be toast!

I think lubricant really comes into play with much larger OD tubing and draw style benders. This essentially rolls the tube over the die and the follower doesn't actually "wipe" over the outside edge. It stays put and rocks over it.

Another one finished up yesterday: .5 x 2.25" CLR for mountain bike seat stay bridges. I have to order more 1018 steel to make the followers. They I can start making a few blanks to see how things are working and if anything needs more tuning.



 

NelsonLt1

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Wow, just WOW. I just went through the thread, and the barn to shop transformation looks great, and your frames are phenomenal.
I'm just getting back into riding after a knee injury about 10 years ago, and found myself with a 26 OM Flyer & 29 Big Ripper 'BMX' that I'm really enjoying. Have you ventured into the BMX geometry at all?

LUKE
 
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fortyfour

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Do I remember it correctly and you machine the dies yourself?

Correct. See the images above for some details of how I go about machining the dies here in the shop.

Wow, just WOW. I just went through the thread, and the barn to shop transformation looks great, and your frames are phenomenal.
I'm just getting back into riding after a knee injury about 10 years ago, and found myself with a 26 OM Flyer & 29 Big Ripper 'BMX' that I'm really enjoying. Have you ventured into the BMX geometry at all?

LUKE

Thank you for the kind words. I'll be building another 26" BMX bike for myself in the near distant future but I don't intend on making them for customers. If a cruiser/errand runner was requested, I would be willing to look at that. But BMX frames, in general, get really beaten on above and beyond mountain bikes! So I try and stay clear of them. Good to hear you are back at it after 10 years though. That's exciting!
 

Toomanytools?

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I haven't read the pages for awhile I get popups on FB when I'm on once and a while, great stuff. What I like is the shop in general it's not super fancy $100,000 over the top like some on GJ ( no offense to those). It's a remodeled shack with uneven cracked concrete he's making it work. It just shows it's not all the stuff but the talent and drive to get things done Hurrah!
 
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fortyfour

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I haven't read the pages for awhile I get popups on FB when I'm on once and a while, great stuff. What I like is the shop in general it's not super fancy $100,000 over the top like some on GJ ( no offense to those). It's a remodeled shack with uneven cracked concrete he's making it work. It just shows it's not all the stuff but the talent and drive to get things done Hurrah!

I hear you! Will be nice to have a new floor that is flat and level. Will make a number of simple things much more easy (like rolling across the floor to reposition myself while welding). But it's workable for now.

One thing I observed from a lot of newcomers in my profession that ultimately failed was an over-investment on the space and tools initially. What I do is very word of mouth and reputation intensive. Which takes time to build. But too much thrown out the door up front is tough to recover/recoup initially on start-up. So I watch a lot of builders tool up and invest heavily in machinery only to not have the workflow to sustain that initial investment. Those who were successful also built their business and workspace slowly and incrementally. Just like their reputation. So I asked myself what I needed initially and that built out a bare bones shop. Then as the business began to gain traction and grow naturally, I was then able to wisely invest in additional time-saving machines and tooling. Seems to be working.

My one wish is that the word of mouth and recognition would reach a broader audience of awareness that I exist. It's growing, but not at the rate I'd want it to grow or maybe the speed at which I'd wish it to grow. That seems to happen to some very quickly regardless of skill and ability, while others seem to either languish or just take way too much time. I'm patient though so I'm here for the long ride!

In other news: I put that new tooling to work. Finalized the shapes/forms of mountain bike chainstays yesterday. Progression of two pairs of chain stays with the master template in the background. I use a master template along with notes that indicate bend starting points and reference points for the forming operations. The master template does not have the forming op's performed so I can use that template to check bends against each other for consistency (If I add the forming op's, it changes the bends actually):









 

Toomanytools?

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I hear you! Will be nice to have a new floor that is flat and level. Will make a number of simple things much more easy (like rolling across the floor to reposition myself while welding). But it's workable for now.

........
My one wish is that the word of mouth and recognition would reach a broader audience of awareness that I exist. It's growing, but not at the rate I'd want it to grow or maybe the speed at which I'd wish it to grow. That seems to happen to some very quickly regardless of skill and ability, while others seem to either languish or just take way too much time. I'm patient though so I'm here for the long ride!

I'm a contractor/woodworker a one man show aside from my business card all my work has been from word of mouth. It is super easy to get caught up in the tool thing, I'm very much like that " I need this new tool then I can be doing such and such". But it is best to do like yourself have a legitimate need and a way to recoup that cost first then get what will make the job faster and easier.
It seems to me there is that plateau for business and growth and if you want to reach a bigger audience you have to really be ready for the next phase and don't rely on others to pass the word.
With that growth can come great rewards or a lot of headaches or both. I guess it comes down to what you want making a lot of money but being so busy as a one man show you have no time for life. Or doing well but have some time to enjoy life.
As you grow you will have to look at hiring someone or farm out some of the work and give up some control.
I tried having employees but in the end it wasn't worth it, so I took on so much work I burned out and developed stress issues. It can be done just set some realistic goals and a way to get there. Make sure your ready, with social media you can start posting on Twitter, FB, YouTube and get your product out there. You need to be ready to keep up with the demand not too many people will want to wait 6 months or longer for a custom bike.
Anyway good luck :beer:
 
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