44 Bikes Frame Shop

[fortyfour]

<SNIP>

Make sure you're ready, with social media you can start posting on Twitter, FB, YouTube and get your product out there. You need to be ready to keep up with the demand not too many people will want to wait 6 months or longer for a custom bike.

Since you mentioned this, some may not know who are reading here so below are all links to existing social media accounts and website for 44 Bikes:

Website

Blog

Flickr

Twitter

Facebook

Instagram

Word is spreading albeit slowly and progressively. It's forward motion for sure. I believe my observation is one that there seems to be no rhyme or reason for what propels some businesses and what doesn't for some businesses. I'm certainly doing everything in my collective power to put the word out in every fashion possible! Slow and steady is my mantra.

In other news: Finished up some tooling this past week.





4 down. 1 more to go! Well... make that maybe 2 more to go.

 

[capww8]

Well, it took a week, but I'm finally caught up with this thread. Gorgeous.

One question (that as far as I can tell hasn't yet been asked), who do you like for bull bars?

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Kristofer, have you used Blue Demon filler rods? They seem to get really good reviews on Amazon and they're very reasonably priced so I was thinking about picking some up to start with...

 

[fortyfour]

Kristofer, have you used Blue Demon filler rods? They seem to get really good reviews on Amazon and they're very reasonably priced so I was thinking about picking some up to start with...

I do not have any experience with Blue Demon. If you are just starting, I'd highly recommend you get to your local welding supplier and find yourself:

ER70S-D2 filler in .035"
303 Stainless in .035"

Or pick yourself up some:

Weldmold 880T which is 312 Stainless.

I'm recommending .035" as it's what I use on most thin walled stuff and I find it to be pretty versatile. .045" is also good for practice. But if you're welding / practicing on thicker material choose .0625-125" filler thicknesses to start.

Welding outfits might not have ER70S-D2 and might need to order it, in which case it may be easier to pick up the phone and call someone like Weldmold. If you can, 1lb increments will suffice.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Thanks Kristofer. For now I'll just be welding carbon steel, HSLA, and eventually Cro-Mo. Probably won't do much welding on SS for quite some time... it's easier for me to order SS exhausts already fitted for my bikes than buy the materials, cut, and bend it for now. Maybe 3 or 4 bikes down the road I'll buy the SS tubing and pie cut pieces to do a full custom exhaust, but I already have sources for the exhausts for the KZ650, GL1100, and CB650 Nighthawk. My CX500 already has a custom exhaust on it. I just need to grind and file the welds smooth when I go to ceramic coat it in a year or so. For now it will just be wrapped to hide the welds.

 

[fortyfour]

Thanks Kristofer. For now I'll just be welding carbon steel, HSLA, and eventually Cro-Mo. Probably won't do much welding on SS for quite some time... it's easier for me to order SS exhausts already fitted for my bikes than buy the materials, cut, and bend it for now. Maybe 3 or 4 bikes down the road I'll buy the SS tubing and pie cut pieces to do a full custom exhaust, but I already have sources for the exhausts for the KZ650, GL1100, and CB650 Nighthawk. My CX500 already has a custom exhaust on it. I just need to grind and file the welds smooth when I go to ceramic coat it in a year or so. For now it will just be wrapped to hide the welds.

Pardon my fingers: I meant 308 above!

Ideally, what I would recommend is going to a reputable welding outfit, speaking with their tech and explaining what you're tackling and what they'd recommend for filler.

When I was brushing up on my TIG welding for tubes aka bicycles which is 4130 Steel and Chromoly Steels, my mentor said: "ER70S-2 for everything and 308 when you don't know."

For Chromoly Steel Tube and 4130 steel aircraft tubes, ER70S-2 is what you should have on hand. Some bike builders like myself have gone over to 312 / Weldmold 880T because of it's increased elongation rate, how clean it welds and it's ability to join dis-similar materials which I am often doing with tube to tube joints that are different alloys.

ER70-S will begin to oxidize if it's not kept away from moisture, so you could find yourself having to clean up your filler even before you start. The nice thing about 312 is it's ready to go. You could get **** and do a denatured alcohol wipe of the filler before starting. But weld integrity is largely driven by surface preparation and if a tube, that means inside and out. I typically clean the entire tube and prep both ends of the tubes a good 4-6" back from where I'm welding to be on the safe side.

312 / Weldmold 880t is a bit more expensive and a bit trickier to use since it wants to ball up, but I actually thing the weld pool is cleaner and easier to manage using that filler. Using ER70S-2 I can often see impurities floating around.

Did some Titanium practice this past Friday to get back in the groove, check settings and get some argon juices flowing. Really enjoy welding this material.

Tack:



Fusion Pass:



Filler Pass:

 

[EVOLVO]

Sweet welds, Kris. For any of your admirers here who have questions about welding processes I'd suggest checking out Jody Collier here:

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/store.html

He's a pro who's been in the biz for many years, has great clear videos of tig, mig and stick welding and is just an all around great guy. This is an unpaid endorsement, haha!

 

[fortyfour]

Sweet welds, Kris. For any of your admirers here who have questions about welding processes I'd suggest checking out Jody Collier here:

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/store.html

He's a pro who's been in the biz for many years, has great clear videos of tig, mig and stick welding and is just an all around great guy. This is an unpaid endorsement, haha!

Thanks. I was going to suggest his site in another post actually. Thanks for sharing!

 

[dawgee]

I think you're just as good if not better than FTW

 

[sdistc]

I've been following your thread with interest - after all, who doesn't dream of having their own workshop setup in the backyard? I particularly enjoy the weld ****

Your post detailing your titanium process, above, mentions that a fusion root pass followed by a filler cap. Would you mind elucidating your reasoning for this? I'm assuming that you're simply being doubly sure of good root penetration.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Pardon my fingers: I meant 308 above!

Ideally, what I would recommend is going to a reputable welding outfit, speaking with their tech and explaining what you're tackling and what they'd recommend for filler.

When I was brushing up on my TIG welding for tubes aka bicycles which is 4130 Steel and Chromoly Steels, my mentor said: "ER70S-2 for everything and 308 when you don't know."

For Chromoly Steel Tube and 4130 steel aircraft tubes, ER70S-2 is what you should have on hand. Some bike builders like myself have gone over to 312 / Weldmold 880T because of it's increased elongation rate, how clean it welds and it's ability to join dis-similar materials which I am often doing with tube to tube joints that are different alloys.

ER70-S will begin to oxidize if it's not kept away from moisture, so you could find yourself having to clean up your filler even before you start. The nice thing about 312 is it's ready to go. You could get **** and do a denatured alcohol wipe of the filler before starting. But weld integrity is largely driven by surface preparation and if a tube, that means inside and out. I typically clean the entire tube and prep both ends of the tubes a good 4-6" back from where I'm welding to be on the safe side.

312 / Weldmold 880t is a bit more expensive and a bit trickier to use since it wants to ball up, but I actually thing the weld pool is cleaner and easier to manage using that filler. Using ER70S-2 I can often see impurities floating around.

<snip>

Sweet welds, Kris. For any of your admirers here who have questions about welding processes I'd suggest checking out Jody Collier here:

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/store.html

He's a pro who's been in the biz for many years, has great clear videos of tig, mig and stick welding and is just an all around great guy. This is an unpaid endorsement, haha!

Thanks for the clarification and for the link to JC's site.

This weekend I spent a lot of time reorganizing and cleaning the garage. I'm getting closer to having the room to bring home the Milwaukee tool chests and order the ZTFab tool chest conversion kit.

 

[fortyfour]

I've been following your thread with interest - after all, who doesn't dream of having their own workshop setup in the backyard? I particularly enjoy the weld ****

Your post detailing your titanium process, above, mentions that a fusion root pass followed by a filler cap. Would you mind elucidating your reasoning for this? I'm assuming that you're simply being doubly sure of good root penetration.

Thanks and glad to hear you've been enjoying watching the process unfold. I won't lie... it's been a literal sh!t-ton of work to get to where I am today and be close to offering titanium to customers. A bit more work to be done and a few more tools to make before I can officially offer the material to clients.

The fusion pass aka root pass is exactly what you mention: ensure good root penetration. It's what every builder who works in titanium does and recommended to me when I was first learning to weld Titanium. So the entire frame essentially gets welded twice. I don't think the material is any harder to work with than steel. It's actually quite enjoyable but it's very expensive and a bit more temperamental. Pretty much everything that goes wrong can be traced back to surface prep and heat input I've found. For the fusion root pass, I'll have .035" filler rod on hand just in case I need to coax a tube keyhole at a start/stop point or pull fusion out from acute tube to tube connections. The cap is then done with .045" filler. Here's some examples of a bit more practice and test from today. Found this session particularly helpful to determine just how much heat to build and carry across the flat sections and transition start and stop points to blend them together better. A few more tests to be done before I start tacking/welding a prototype frame that is prepped.

Thanks for the clarification and for the link to JC's site.

Sure thing! Once you're up and running, feel free to hit me up with any welding questions.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Sure thing! Once you're up and running, feel free to hit me up with any welding questions.

I appreciate that! I kept my three donor frames from the bikes that I stripped down so I can practice on them once I'm further along... And one CB650 Nighthawk donor will be used for a trial run of fusing an Interceptor 500 swing arm mount to the chopped CB650 frame before I commit to doing it on the real bike one day in the future. That will definitely be the most advanced frame mod I plan to do out of all my existing projects. Most will just be fabbing up new seat hoops and welding on the bracing to complete the rear support triangles or just strengthening and boxing the frame on the KZ440 and CB350.

I will be building a DIY blasting cabinet and curing oven in the near future too so surface prep will be a little easier besides just my grinders.

 

[EVOLVO]

I will be building a DIY blasting cabinet and curing oven in the near future too so surface prep will be a little easier besides just my grinders.

Back in the 90's when I was building gas brazed bike frames sand blasting was a big no no. Especially if you used a silica based media. Although blasting cleans the material it also leaves silica embedded in the steel which can seriously fork up the weld integrity. Cleaning with abrasive strips, like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M32PWRZ/?tag=atomicindus08-20 on the outer perimeter and use abrasive rolls on the inside of the tubes. I had a piece of 3/8" round bar that I split 1" deep with a hack sawed and would roll strips to fit inside the tubes. Chucked up in my air drill, quick and easy. Anyway, that's what I did way back then. Kris probably has a more efficient way of doing this now!

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Back in the 90's when I was building gas brazed bike frames sand blasting was a big no no. Especially if you used a silica based media. Although blasting cleans the material it also leaves silica embedded in the steel which can seriously fork up the weld integrity. Cleaning with abrasive strips, like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M32PWRZ/?tag=atomicindus08-20 on the outer perimeter and use abrasive rolls on the inside of the tubes. I had a piece of 3/8" round bar that I split 1" deep with a hack sawed and would roll strips to fit inside the tubes. Chucked up in my air drill, quick and easy. Anyway, that's what I did way back then. Kris probably has a more efficient way of doing this now!

Thanks for that warning on the silica sand. I'm not sure what blasting material I will run, but it's good to know that silica sand is a no-no if I plan to weld on the frames after blasting.

 

[fortyfour]

Thanks for that warning on the silica sand. I'm not sure what blasting material I will run, but it's good to know that silica sand is a no-no if I plan to weld on the frames after blasting.

There are a bunch of my colleagues who build frames (both Tig and Brazed) who routinely blast sections or the entire frame before they braze/TIG weld the bikes. I'm not sure what type of media they are using.

I'll be investing in a blast cabinet later this spring or summer. This one specifically. I have to first finish the rough build out of the woodshop in the back of the shop which is where that will reside. Woodshop in the sense that that is where my table saw will live! Then I'll be figuring out running pressures and media type for adding finishing options for titanium. It will come in handy when masking off patterns/logos for titanium anodizing. I just scored a lightly used Graphtec CE6000-40 vinyl plotter. Pretty excited to be getting closer to having my finishing set up dialed in.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

There are a bunch of my colleagues who build frames (both Tig and Brazed) who routinely blast sections or the entire frame before they braze/TIG weld the bikes. I'm not sure what type of media they are using.

I'll be investing in a blast cabinet later this spring or summer. This one specifically. I have to first finish the rough build out of the woodshop in the back of the shop which is where that will reside. Woodshop in the sense that that is where my table saw will live! Then I'll be figuring out running pressures and media type for adding finishing options for titanium. It will come in handy when masking off patterns/logos for titanium anodizing. I just scored a lightly used Graphtec CE6000-40 vinyl plotter. Pretty excited to be getting closer to having my finishing set up dialed in.

LMK what you find out on the media. When I was selling stainless steel tubing for instrumentation and medical I went to a lot of trade shows. One medical show there was a company offering titanium anodizing services. I talked to them for almost an hour because it was fascinating. The anodizing on titanium really isn't an anodizing, there is no dye in the process. It's a surface prep. Basically the Ti is chemically etched to create different values of very fine surface finishes that reflect light differently to create the effect that we see as the color. The company's production manager was working the booth that day and he was the one that explained the whole process to me. It was so cool because I had no idea how it was done since I was only familiar with anodizing aluminum, which we had done on a lot of parts we made with our tubing for the medical industry. This same company had a patented aluminum anodizing process that could do 4 or 5 colors that would hold up as well as Type 2 hard anodizing in a surgical environment with the sterilization processes they used. I might even still have the guy's business card stashed away somewhere...

I know that 7000 series Al is a PITA to anodize. With normal processes the welds either end up much lighter or much darker. There is a company in TN that does anodize 7000 series with a proprietary process they developed to get even color across the welds and aluminum.

 

[fortyfour]

<SNIP>

The anodizing on titanium really isn't an anodizing, there is no dye in the process. It's a surface prep. Basically the Ti is chemically etched to create different values of very fine surface finishes that reflect light differently to create the effect that we see as the color.

Correct. No dye used which is used in Aluminum Anodizing. You're technically creating an oxide layer that reflects light depending on how thick of an oxide layer you produce through the process. So depending on the thickness which is voltage dependent (25-130 volts), it will cancel out certain colors in the spectrum of light and while reinforcing others which produces what we "see".

I'll be doing some tests in a handful of days and will be sure to share here.

 

[wingnutthehutt]

Correct. No dye used which is used in Aluminum Anodizing. You're technically creating an oxide layer that reflects light depending on how thick of an oxide layer you produce through the process. So depending on the thickness which is voltage dependent (25-130 volts), it will cancel out certain colors in the spectrum of light and while reinforcing others which produces what we "see".

Light refraction? That is so cool!

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Light refraction? That is so cool!

Great GIF Wing!

 

[fortyfour]

Light refraction? That is so cool!

I know! It is pretty cool stuff. Love that gif btw.

Here's a bit more digestible science on it from Mr. Titanium.

 

[sdistc]

Thanks and glad to hear you've been enjoying watching the process unfold. I won't lie... it's been a literal sh!t-ton of work to get to where I am today and be close to offering titanium to customers. A bit more work to be done and a few more tools to make before I can officially offer the material to clients.

The fusion pass aka root pass is exactly what you mention: ensure good root penetration. It's what every builder who works in titanium does and recommended to me when I was first learning to weld Titanium. So the entire frame essentially gets welded twice. I don't think the material is any harder to work with than steel. It's actually quite enjoyable but it's very expensive and a bit more temperamental. Pretty much everything that goes wrong can be traced back to surface prep and heat input I've found. For the fusion root pass, I'll have .035" filler rod on hand just in case I need to coax a tube keyhole at a start/stop point or pull fusion out from acute tube to tube connections. The cap is then done with .045" filler. Here's some examples of a bit more practice and test from today. Found this session particularly helpful to determine just how much heat to build and carry across the flat sections and transition start and stop points to blend them together better. A few more tests to be done before I start tacking/welding a prototype frame that is prepped.

Thanks for giving some more insight into your process.

 

[Thru-hika]

Hi 44. I picked up this bike recently and thought you might like the welds. It’s an older 90’s titanium bike and I’d be curious what you think? I enjoy your posts and am a NH native living in KY. Love the shop and seeing the work you do.

 

[Syborg tt]

Hi 44. I picked up this bike recently and thought you might like the welds. It’s an older 90’s titanium bike and I’d be curious what you think? I enjoy your posts and am a NH native living in KY. Love the shop and seeing the work you do.

Wow, Thru-hika that is a very cool find and thank you for sharing it. I miss my old Ti bikes

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Hi 44. I picked up this bike recently and thought you might like the welds. It’s an older 90’s titanium bike and I’d be curious what you think? I enjoy your posts and am a NH native living in KY. Love the shop and seeing the work you do.

Damn, that is a classic!

 

[Perrorojo]

Hi 44. I picked up this bike recently and thought you might like the welds. It’s an older 90’s titanium bike and I’d be curious what you think? I enjoy your posts and am a NH native living in KY. Love the shop and seeing the work you do.

The Keith Bontrager story is pretty cool.

 

[smsteve]

Hi Kristofer, Any cool updates to share with us? I need to see some amazing stuff and it's been awhile.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Too long!

 

[fortyfour]

Hi Kristofer, Any cool updates to share with us? I need to see some amazing stuff and it's been awhile.

Here you go!

Around the shop and some recent client work...























New fat bike for myself:

 

[dchance]

Kristofer,
Liked the pictures and the new bike looks great. Glad to see the update.

Dwight

 

[Bob275]

That has to be the BEST feeling...
I want a new bike, head out to the shop and build something badass like that!

New fat bike for myself:

 

[DPG]

I've subscribed to 2 threads since I've been here. Yours and a knife maker who has been long gone (cannot remember his name). Both of you are artistic / very talented. I miss seeing your updates. Did you fix the floor in your shop yet?

 

[smsteve]

As expected, absolutely amazing work. That fat tire bike is super sweet!

 

[fortyfour]

I've subscribed to 2 threads since I've been here. Yours and a knife maker who has been long gone (cannot remember his name). Both of you are artistic / very talented. I miss seeing your updates. Did you fix the floor in your shop yet?

Thanks all. It is pretty cool to be able to walk down my lane, open up the shop and make a bike from scratch. Still amazes me I accomplished all this.

RE Floor: Not yet but it's on the list for the next 2 years if I can swing it.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Here you go!

Around the shop and some recent client work...

This fat bike is so sweet! I love that handlebar and the color scheme.

 

[fortyfour]

The green fat bike is a repeat customer (and my first customer) from Switzerland. Here's some additional details of that build:

 

[Deezler]

Sweeeet. What kind of total weight do those fatbikes come in at? If you don't mind sharing, that is.

 

[jalbrecht55]

^^ and is the one you built for yourself Ti?

 

[fortyfour]

Sweeeet. What kind of total weight do those fatbikes come in at? If you don't mind sharing, that is.

Anywhere from 25lbs to 30lbs+. Depends on wheels and parts. My own fat bike is around 28 pounds but I have not converted the wheels to tubeless (they're tubed for now). When I do that, I'll lose at least 2lbs per wheel.

^^ and is the one you built for yourself Ti?

Yes, it is!

 

[Toothaker]

Is that a 36 tooth chain ring gear?