50" press brake build
- Thread starter Dwerden
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alwaysFlOoReD
Well-known member
subbed.
bad_idea
Well-known member
I am curious about the 'laminated' arms. Why not use 1" plate? Why the 1/2" sandwiched between two pieces of 1/4"? Is that for strength or is your plasma table limited to 1/2"?
Yes I can only cut a max of 5/8, and I have over a sheet of 1/4 I got for a case of beer. Just making due with what I have
purplezr2
Well-known member
Have you seen the few that were built on Pirate 4x4?
Yup I think I have seen most of the ones on the internet, I have been researching this on and off for a few years. Theres one on pinterest too that a guy built and he was nice enough to give me some pointers
Not much progress today, cut a quick bracket out of 1/8 to do a trial run on the cylinder. Im going to trade this one in tommorow morning for a 14" stroke. I put a video on youtube so everyone can see the smooooth opperation
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PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Looking good- like the way the linkage is coming out.
Got the 14" ram this morning and changed my brackets a bit. Getting 4 3/8 of stroke now, not quite as much as i wanted but I think it will be fine for what im going to do with it
Here is fully extended
Retracted
I added a doubler on the outside of the tube so it is 1/2 thick now and I added a web inside
This hopefully shouldnt go anywhere, the upright is going to come up to the top of this mount and i left space for a 1/4 doubler the same as I did on the bottom. I will likely add a web inside also on the upright
Here is fully extended
Retracted
I added a doubler on the outside of the tube so it is 1/2 thick now and I added a web inside
This hopefully shouldnt go anywhere, the upright is going to come up to the top of this mount and i left space for a 1/4 doubler the same as I did on the bottom. I will likely add a web inside also on the upright
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I think if it doesnt go down level Ill zip the rod, theyre just tacked anyways. Then ill clamp the punch into the die so its tight then reweld the rod onto the clevis end. That should get me going for now. In the future if it needs adjustment i will buy some 1 1/4 bungs and thread a turnbuckle on the lathe.
f150skidoo
Well-known member
progress is coming along nicely, One word of advice is you top 6"x6" won't be rigid enough and will deflect. If you want to have nice crisp bends with this brake rigidity is very important. I made a quick drawing from your picture. I would weld on some flat bar 10" or 12" x 3/8" or thicker in red, and sandwich your square tube. I would connect that flat bar in a lap joint onto you uprights in blue to help reinforce that joint. I built a 50 ton press that is 42" between the uprights and my frame consists of 3/4" x 4" flat bar for the uprights and 12" x #20.7 channel for the horizontals. When I use my 3 foot brake in my press and I'm pushing 35 tons+ the 12" channel starts to deflect. So my sheet parts that I'm bending are bent more in the middle then the ends.
Attachments
That has kinda been in the back of my head that I might have to plate not only the top beam but the bed aswell. I looked up that channel and it only has a .280" web, not much thicker than my tube, and the pockets I cut in should add some strength. Also I wonder how much of a difference it makes that I have 2 jacking points closer to the uprights rather than 1 dead center like your press. Definetely will keep an eye on it and will probbaly end up sandwiching 1/4 or heavier on either side depending on the amount of deflection I get. How thick of metal are you bending that you notice the deflection and what is your bottom die opening
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f150skidoo
Well-known member
I don't think having the two points closer to the posts would make much of a difference compared to a single center point, since the upper die plate would distribute the force fairly evenly. I only have 2.5" & 2" lower die widths, I mainly notice when I'm bending 1/8" and 3/16" mild steel in the 2" die the inconsistent bend radius.
I called a buddy earlier and had him put a 6x6 tube in solid works and put 50000 pounds evenly distributed ontop, i wont have even weight but it was just to give me an idea. Well he said it deflected almost 2 inches before the sides welded to the uprights ripped off
Well im not to sure its going to be that bad haha. A Couple online calculators with a point load shot anywhere from .080 to .75 so I think other than taking an engineering class its going to be trial and error.
This guy bends 4 ft of 1/4 with this press, It appears to be 4x4 tubing up top doubled up, I ran the same calcs with 4x8 tubing which is also what ill be using for my bottom bed and it is only marginally better than the 6x6. Before i weld my uprights on I am going to add a web inside the other end of the 6x6 then ill put it all together and see what happens, but expect to brace everything with plate
f150skidoo
Well-known member
I agree with you about I don't think it would bend 2" bad, I can definitely believe the .080"-.750" deflection. You should see if your buddy can run a simulation with the square tube with 1/4" plate welded onto the sides to see if it makes enough of a difference. In the picture with the two 4x4 tubing stacked, that should be a bit stronger then a single 4x8 since the bottom tube would be in compression and the top tube in tension.
He quickly changed the wall thickness up to 1/2 and it still showed it would fail. It doesnt look to promising but from the presses I have seen online, mostly youtubers using air over hydraulic jacks, I should be ok with what i have and some bracing.
I will keep a close eye on everything once its all together and get some indicators on it to see what is going on
I am way to far beyond the point of return now the trick will be to not make it look like a cobbled afterthought with plates welded everywhere
I will keep a close eye on everything once its all together and get some indicators on it to see what is going on
I am way to far beyond the point of return now the trick will be to not make it look like a cobbled afterthought with plates welded everywhere
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
If necessary, you can always add a few artistic doublers/fish plates to add strength where you need it and enhance the aesthetics of your design.
matt_i
Well-known member
I hope this doesn't come out as critical, not intended to be but just a reference point...I have a Betenbender 1/4" x 48" hydraulic sheet-shear in my shop. Not sure of tonnage but it uses twin 6" cylinders at some unknown pressure.
But, the entire press frame is all 1" thick flat bar or pieces burned out of plate.
Its all about the section moment of inertia, the flat/rectangular bar is related to bh^3 where b is the horizontal dimension and h is the vertical dimension, and the square tube is related to (OD^4 - ID^4)...but the Ixx value is tabulated more officially to account for the radiused/roll-formed corners.
But, the entire press frame is all 1" thick flat bar or pieces burned out of plate.
Its all about the section moment of inertia, the flat/rectangular bar is related to bh^3 where b is the horizontal dimension and h is the vertical dimension, and the square tube is related to (OD^4 - ID^4)...but the Ixx value is tabulated more officially to account for the radiused/roll-formed corners.
Hopefully not necessary but I LIKE that idea. [emoji106]
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No offense taken because Im not really sure what you said
I realize most commercial brakes are made from heavy plate but I have no means of cutting it or the desire to pay someone to. All of the material for this press has been scrounged and was free for the most part so im hoping it will bend something at least and if not I wull return the 200 dollar cylinder and cut my losses haha
I am adding plates to the side of the 6x6 tube today and added a web inside the other side so hopefully that will help.
Opperation speed holes has been commenced check back later for pictures
Well since i have a surplus of 1/4 plate I put some stiffeners on either side. Who knows if this will be enough but we will find out soon
I welded in a web also and tied it into the box frame where the arm lives just like the other side
It was in aboit 16 inches so I had to break out the extendorods
Going back out now to cut a web for my lower die bed then i need to roll the plasma cutter out of the way and make room so i can get my tractor in the back shop and get this thing off the bench
I welded in a web also and tied it into the box frame where the arm lives just like the other side
It was in aboit 16 inches so I had to break out the extendorods
Going back out now to cut a web for my lower die bed then i need to roll the plasma cutter out of the way and make room so i can get my tractor in the back shop and get this thing off the bench
4 FN 27
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Awesome build. Can't wait to see how it performs.
I've been fabricating for the last 40 years. Put together a few things recently for training classes we do here for our Press Brake beginners and some outside Engineers. Just thought I would share them here for anyone interested in Bending Metal...
Press Brake Tooling Selection:
https://www.thefabricator.com/article/bending/bending-basics-6-steps-to-successful-die-selection-for-press-brakes
There are other related articles too.
I've been fabricating for the last 40 years. Put together a few things recently for training classes we do here for our Press Brake beginners and some outside Engineers. Just thought I would share them here for anyone interested in Bending Metal...
Press Brake Tooling Selection:
https://www.thefabricator.com/article/bending/bending-basics-6-steps-to-successful-die-selection-for-press-brakes
There are other related articles too.
Thanks for the extended stick welding tip, that is something I've never tried.
It was in aboit 16 inches so I had to break out the extendorods
I hadn't either haha but it worked alright, just only really have one rod angle so i used 6010 and just hoped for the best
Thanks, I actually did a bunch of reading on that site already, lots of good info
I only had 8 ft of the 4x8 tubing so i cut 26.5 inches off of each one and made my die bed with a 1/4 web down the center. I cut a few slots in the tubing that allowed me to stitch weld the web about every 10 inches or so
Then I used the remaining 70 inches for my uprights, I have some 4x4 tubing ill make some little a frame legs out of to get it up a foot or so
Then I brought in the big guns to help me lift, I set it down flat then re-rigged and stood it up
And there it is, I left both uprights long so I can add a big gusset on the left side. There is still a lot of work left but at least its starting to look like something. My punch is being machined today so my next plan of attack is the upper punch holder and I need to turn 2 more shafts for the bottom of the dog bones
Then I used the remaining 70 inches for my uprights, I have some 4x4 tubing ill make some little a frame legs out of to get it up a foot or so
Then I brought in the big guns to help me lift, I set it down flat then re-rigged and stood it up
And there it is, I left both uprights long so I can add a big gusset on the left side. There is still a lot of work left but at least its starting to look like something. My punch is being machined today so my next plan of attack is the upper punch holder and I need to turn 2 more shafts for the bottom of the dog bones
What kind of building are you in? I find the wall configuration quite interesting. Press brake looks good. The last photo makes me think that you could configure that so that the bottom die moves up and the punch is stationary like an Amada (sp) I don't know what the advantage of that is maybe 4FN27 could tell us.
Its a Quanset hut and it is a pain in the *** haha but it is what I have. I need to get this back area spray foamed like the front since i am doing all of my metal work back here. I was running the plasma table in the front part of the shop where it is heated and insulated but it makes a mess out of everything
Got my punch plate cut out this afternoon, i turned a piece of 1 inch round stock to a point and clamped it where the torch usually goes in the plasma table in order to pick up the piece of plate.. it worked extremely well
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Spencer Was Here
Well-known member
I hope I'm not the only one who didn't quite follow what you are trying to describe here. If you could elaborate and or post some photos of this process I would appreciate it.
