50" press brake build
- Thread starter Dwerden
- Start date
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The guides are all installed and good to go. worked out perfect width with 1/4 on one side and 3/16 on the other
Then i pulled some pins and started on the grease *******
Then of course my go to was to chuck that 1/8 plate I tried to bend yesterday back in there and give her **** now that the punch is being held nice and straight.
Well.... Im pretty bummed to say the least, just as some people pointed out, the 6x6 is flexing pretty bad. I just had the 1/8 in there and was watching what kind of pressure it was taking to bend and noticed the 6x6 coming up everytime I bumped up the pressure. So gave that up because it was never my intention to bend 1/8 in this narrow die anyways.
I put the 4 ft wide piece of 16 gauge back in and put a dial indicator off of a pipestand on the bottom of the 6x6. Im showing about .050" deflection putting a 90 degree bed on 16 ga. Luckily it has come back down flat, I havnt wrecked it yet but its a bummer I was on what I thought was the home stretch.
Anyways, my budget has run out and quite honestly i need a break from this brake, Ive been working on it every day for 2 weeks haha.
So my plan is to pretend that this never happened, Im going to get the legs on and finish up the welding. Then im going to carry on with my life, the main goal of this press was to brake a syrup pan for the fast approaching syrup season, its 30" of 18 ga. Stainless so I should be able to make that happen without tweaking anything.
I have a thought about using some material i have to do a make shift stiffener for now, i have some pretty heavy 6" i beam that i probbaly should have used in the first place , i wonder about welding that to the very top of the uprighhts and running some 1/2x6 flatbar down in the middle of the existing 6x6.
I think when I get back to work i will try and score some 1/2 plate and badically fill the entire area where the arms are with plate on both sides ontop of thr existing 6x6. Basically 1/2 by 13"tall as tight as I can to the arms . Ill need to leave the top open so i can get the arms out at some point. Anyways, thanks for listening haha
Then i pulled some pins and started on the grease *******
Then of course my go to was to chuck that 1/8 plate I tried to bend yesterday back in there and give her **** now that the punch is being held nice and straight.
Well.... Im pretty bummed to say the least, just as some people pointed out, the 6x6 is flexing pretty bad. I just had the 1/8 in there and was watching what kind of pressure it was taking to bend and noticed the 6x6 coming up everytime I bumped up the pressure. So gave that up because it was never my intention to bend 1/8 in this narrow die anyways.
I put the 4 ft wide piece of 16 gauge back in and put a dial indicator off of a pipestand on the bottom of the 6x6. Im showing about .050" deflection putting a 90 degree bed on 16 ga. Luckily it has come back down flat, I havnt wrecked it yet but its a bummer I was on what I thought was the home stretch.
Anyways, my budget has run out and quite honestly i need a break from this brake, Ive been working on it every day for 2 weeks haha.
So my plan is to pretend that this never happened, Im going to get the legs on and finish up the welding. Then im going to carry on with my life, the main goal of this press was to brake a syrup pan for the fast approaching syrup season, its 30" of 18 ga. Stainless so I should be able to make that happen without tweaking anything.
I have a thought about using some material i have to do a make shift stiffener for now, i have some pretty heavy 6" i beam that i probbaly should have used in the first place , i wonder about welding that to the very top of the uprighhts and running some 1/2x6 flatbar down in the middle of the existing 6x6.
I think when I get back to work i will try and score some 1/2 plate and badically fill the entire area where the arms are with plate on both sides ontop of thr existing 6x6. Basically 1/2 by 13"tall as tight as I can to the arms . Ill need to leave the top open so i can get the arms out at some point. Anyways, thanks for listening haha
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Wow. Nothing to feel too bad about IMO. I think you’ve done an awesome job so far. Take a break like you said and come back to it later.
Just too bad you weren’t getting paid for welding by weight or length of electrodes. Haha. Ok I’ll stop now....
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Just too bad you weren’t getting paid for welding by weight or length of electrodes. Haha. Ok I’ll stop now....
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I think you're on the right track with a strongback; certainly better than starting over. Maybe make the vertical stiffeners adjustable so you can put a little windage into the bend if you need it. I'd use your I beam and put a heavy vertical stiffener plate on top of it, make it look like it is part of the design (maybe an arc or an ellipse with a few incrementally sized speed holes)
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. Even the pros make mistakes; they just usually have more experience and resources to recover from them.
Overall, looking good.
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. Even the pros make mistakes; they just usually have more experience and resources to recover from them.
Overall, looking good.
I think you're on the right track with a strongback; certainly better than starting over. Maybe make the vertical stiffeners adjustable so you can put a little windage into the bend if you need it. I'd use your I beam and put a heavy vertical stiffener plate on top of it, make it look like it is part of the design (maybe an arc or an ellipse with a few incrementally sized speed holes)
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. Even the pros make mistakes; they just usually have more experience and resources to recover from them.
Overall, looking good.
Thanks, I am thinking I need to get 3 of these babys cut from half inch plate
I would have made a lot of money on this one, ive burned about 30 pounds of rod in this thing. I will say its a good feeling to have built this thing from scratch, at home in my garage
Bottlecapdigger
Well-known member
Where is it flexing? is it on the horizontal beam with the yokes ? As for the plasma table I want one of theirs, looks like a good quality one, he's told me they have sold them to schools, the money is holding me back to get one. BCD
Yes the 6x6 is flexing that holds the arms
Yes but even the 4 ft of 16 gauge in the 3/4 die is only like 8 ton. And deflecting almost a 1/6th of an inch isnt much of a press haha
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thanks, I am thinking I need to get 3 of these babys cut from half inch plate
If you are getting three plates cut, make the lower plate solid, and put it on center. Use two on the upper, strategically locate the speed holes where you can access the clevises.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thanks, I am thinking I need to get 3 of these babys cut from half inch plate
If you are getting three plates cut, make the lower plate solid, and put it on center to create a load path with your internal stiffeners. Use two on the upper, strategically locate the speed holes where you can access the clevises. You might even put a beam above and tie it into the stiffener plates.
We really need a structural engineer to run an FEA on the built up section(s) to see exactly where the stresses are greatest.
Yup I agree, 2 on top as close as I can get together then one dead center in the bottom, I am thinking about doing 1/4 plate solid to stiffen it for now then laminate a second piece on later with speed holes
Unfortunetely our resources have been depleted and there is no budget left for an engineer haha
readhead
Well-known member
On the bottom the support needs to be directly under the bottom die. A good plan would be to cut away the back of the tube and use some 1”x10” plate under the die. It wouldn’t change the appearance from the front other than seeing the plate extend below the tube.
The top is all about the two pins. Right now the top member is deflecting and in some sense protecting the pins. If you stiffen the top will the pins take all the pressure? I would plan on a 3/4”x8” plate front and rear flush with top of the existing tube. Possibly extending and increasing the size of the pin or the bushing around it may be in order. I suspect the pins are deflecting also.
Having been around a lot of press brakes over the years I can say weight savings was never considered in the design. I think your concept is sound and you are close to the end. Don’t be discouraged and rethink your use of materials.
The top is all about the two pins. Right now the top member is deflecting and in some sense protecting the pins. If you stiffen the top will the pins take all the pressure? I would plan on a 3/4”x8” plate front and rear flush with top of the existing tube. Possibly extending and increasing the size of the pin or the bushing around it may be in order. I suspect the pins are deflecting also.
Having been around a lot of press brakes over the years I can say weight savings was never considered in the design. I think your concept is sound and you are close to the end. Don’t be discouraged and rethink your use of materials.
The pins were my initial concern, I would have never thought that the 6x6 would deflect this much and so efforessly. I ran the pins in the same calculator (who knows how accurate it is) but it is only showing about .020" deflection so in comparason to the other stuff were dealing with thats pretty good
readhead
Well-known member
I’m not an engineer but during 46 years of fabricating steel I think I picked up some experience. I can see your design reasoning but your understanding of material characteristics is where the problem is. Please don’t take this the wrong way. I applaud your jumping into this with both feet and I am confident you will get a satisfactory result. Clearly your welding ability is not a problem. I think the wrong turn in this case was using hollow sections. The same design using plates would have produced a better result. At this point I think that is basically where you will end up by strengthening your existing structure with plates applied to stiffen the tubes. Keep going if for no other reason than a better understanding of materials and to pass on your experiences to others following along.
4 FN 27
ALLIANCE MEMBER
100% Spot on...all of our Press brakes are Solid Rams some 2 inches thick and 3-4 feet tall.
Bottoms are Solid with cutouts for Crown Compensation.
Don't be discouraged...keep the hammer down...
Nice work...
If you want to really reinvent the wheel make it an up acting Press Brake like the Amada LD and RG Series.
I still had a 4x4 ft chunk of 1/4 so i decided so give it a whirl
Very happy with the results! I have .015" deflection now in the top beam on the bypass of the tractor, so essentially it should never deflect more than that as long as I keep the pressure where it is. The bottom bed is showing about .040 but i am going to do the same stiffener on the bottom. Also going to add a couple 4x4 tubes in betwern the 1/4 plates up tup just to tie them together
Very happy with the results! I have .015" deflection now in the top beam on the bypass of the tractor, so essentially it should never deflect more than that as long as I keep the pressure where it is. The bottom bed is showing about .040 but i am going to do the same stiffener on the bottom. Also going to add a couple 4x4 tubes in betwern the 1/4 plates up tup just to tie them together
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
.
Great news on the stiffener test.
1/2 plate with speed holes... would let you see the linkage
4 FN 27
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Bad-***!!!
Is your Top Punch removable???? As well as the Bottom Die???
Is your Top Punch removable???? As well as the Bottom Die???
readhead
Well-known member
Glad it’s working out.
Yup they are both removable, i will eventually make a set of fingers once i get all the bugs worked out
.
Great news on the stiffener test.
1/2 plate with speed holes... would let you see the linkage
Too late now! If anything ill put another piece of 1/4 ontop with speed holes
4 FN 27
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I'll keep an eye out for any of the American Tooling we have here if we are going to scrap it...might cost you shipping only...no promises but I know they were talking about purging Tooling Inventories.
That would be awsome thanks alot
f150skidoo
Well-known member
Whipped up some legs
Taking some time to admire all of my hard work
Tommorow I need to cut the bottom supports, i have 26 inches of 1/4 left so im going to do a 13 inch stiffener below the die bed doubled up
That looks like its will be a lot better design and looks good. You should add a few spacer blocks to connect those 2 new pieces of plate together at the top. Under higher tonnages those tops could move in or out horizontally since that would be the movement of least resistance since vertically is rigid.
Yup I cut a few sections of 4x4 tubing ill weld in there strategically so I can still get the arms out
bad_idea
Well-known member
Might I suggest you make the 4x4 tubing chunks bolt in? Make servicing much easier. Could also make a cover plate across the top that bolts in.
jeepinerdeep
Well-known member
Way to power through your troubles man. It's a neat piece.
Some wire brush and rustoleum...and some tunes/beverages are up next.
Some wire brush and rustoleum...and some tunes/beverages are up next.
I would like to make a cover plate of some sort , I have lots of room to get everything out if I keep the 4x4 to the top
Thanks man , I was pretty bummed yesterday but I can see the light now. Im going to get my neighbor to come over with his skid steer to lay it down and ill get a pass of 7018 on all these plates
Had my helper out this morning handing me rods to get the bottom stiffener plate welded up, it is 2 1/4 inch plates together. Im officially out of 1/4 plate
My nieghbor is supposed to be coming over with his skid steer to lay this baby down so I can weld everything up.I tried to pick it up just to get the legs under it and that was a hard no for my tractor haha
My nieghbor is supposed to be coming over with his skid steer to lay this baby down so I can weld everything up.I tried to pick it up just to get the legs under it and that was a hard no for my tractor haha
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Heres another shot of her standing up, this thing looks legit with the stiffeners. I drilled and tapped 2 holes to bolt the hydraulic spool too for now, its a bit better placement than being screwed to the wall haha
Then I got her laid down and started pounding some rod to it
He is supposed to come back tonight and flip it over again for me, then ill get the other side welded tommorow morning ans hopefully get him back to stand it up and get the legs under it
Then I got her laid down and started pounding some rod to it
He is supposed to come back tonight and flip it over again for me, then ill get the other side welded tommorow morning ans hopefully get him back to stand it up and get the legs under it
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
Some damn nice welds!