60 year old floor. what do i do?

[Hellcat666]

Hey all, im from northern NJ, my house was built in the 50s and the garage floor has never been re done, its a heavy mix, it looks like they mixed grape sized stones into the concrete when they poured it. the floor is very worn, it isnt cracked anywhere but is like..eroding for lack of a better term. its constantly dusty in the garage cuz of the floor disintegrating. some spots are more textured than others but its all pretty bad, im having a hard time describing exactly what its doing so il post some pics, eaither way im confused as to what i should do, should i have the floor taken up and a new one poured? some tell me there is a way i can save the floor and put a wet mix like a skim coat over the hole floor to smooth it out, but then others tell me that will just break up in a few years as well. i do park some heavy cars in the garage and would like to be able to jack a car up in there and use jack stands without risk of messing whatever i decide to do up. any info or sugjestions that anyone knowledgable has would be greatly aprreciated. thanks!

 

[Garage Flooring]

WOW!

I used to own company and we had the same thing in one of our buildings. email [email protected] and they can send it directly to the manufacturer.

We/They used a combination of epoxy fillers and flexible epoxy products and filled a floor that looked worse than that! Make sure you send the pictures over and they will get you an answer!

 

[kngkong]

This looks exactly like my floor and I have been planning on using a self leveling plasticised cement topping with a hardener if necessary. From what I'm told that should be durable enough. Really curious what you find out.

For the most part the majority of my floor is stable with no cracking but there is one area of cement which was added later which sounds a little hollow. My plan is to remove some hollow cement areas and fill. Patch up any sizable gaps and grind anything that needs grinding. Probably a good power wash and etch, cement primer and the topping. Sealer or epoxy on that. Fingers crossed

Some pics of mine

 

[DeadPedal]

I have the exact same problem with my garage floor. I was thinking of some of the solutions mentioned above, however I live near Chicago and my garage is not heated. I was told that the freezing conditions will cause any new concrete to separate from the old. is this true?

thanks,

 

[munkey]

For these heavily pitted floors, I'm sure there are some good self-leveling epoxy products that you could mix (possibly with added aggregate) and more or less pour onto the floor and spread with a squeegee. The good ones that have high or 100% solids content are going to be extremely durable; probably more durable than the rest of the floor, assuming you can remove enough loose rubble and debris to get good adhesion.

Something like that could yield tremendous improvements and completely disguise the damage. It is, of course, going to cost you more than picking up a bag of cement at the local big box, mixing with water, and hoping for the best... and the results are going to be much, much better.

I will leave it to the pros to actually recommend a particular product, but I know they are out there.

 

[BlindViper]

What about grinding down the highs of the floor?

 

[Hellcat666]

wow good to see im not the only one with this problem. its realy been driving me crazy lately as its hard to keep the place clean with the constant dust. keep the info comming!

 

[kngkong]

yeah, I know what you mean. I want to resurface my floor because of the dust and how hard it is to clean up oil spills. Problem is Ive got to move my mill and lathe which keeps me procrastinating. I'm working on an old motorcycle project which likes to leak oil and every time I create a new puddle I just think about how much more prep Ill need to do before I can lay on the topping.

Am hoping the self leveling cement doesn't require as much as it does for epoxy.

Just have to bite the bullet sometime soon and get it done.

apologies if I'm hijacking but seems we're in the same boat.

 

[Edger]

Hey all, im from northern NJ, ... either way im confused as to what i should do, should i have the floor taken up and a new one poured? ..... sugjestions that anyone knowledgable has would be greatly aprreciated. thanks!

Save up and get a new one. I did lots of work on floors like yours and I really worked hard to produce the best job in the end. However, I always thought after that it would have been better to replace the floor.

I would have water blasted the surface, wet vacuum dried it, next day apply Aquron water proofing to stop rising damp, grind with a diamond grinder to flatten the peaks, after two days light shot blast to prepare the low parts, vacuum again, hand screed filler over the area, diamond grind the top smooth, vacuum, fill again, grind and clean, fill again, grind and clean, two coats of epoxy. It would be a sound job, but would look only marginal. After all the expense and work a bit more to replace the slab would have been much better.

 

[kngkong]

Edger,

After all that why would it look only marginal? Especially if covered with epoxy? You don't mention a self leveling topping in your workflow?

Unfortunately for me I don't think replacing the floor is really an option at the moment.

 

[munkey]

Surely the key to the repair is going to be whether the damaged section is fundamentally sound once you clean it up. If you use a wire brush and (dust/rubble) just keep endlessly flaking off forever, you might be in trouble. But if you can get it to a point where you have a basically sound substrate (however uneven and unsightly it may be), I would definitely give it a shot with an epoxy filler.

 

[Edger]

Edger,

After all that why would it look only marginal? Especially if covered with epoxy? You don't mention a self leveling topping in your workflow?

Unfortunately for me I don't think replacing the floor is really an option at the moment.

Good question, after all that work it is still not flat all over and a self level would certainly make it look good, but SL epoxy is not cheap so as the price adds up and considering it is still an old slab underneath it starts to close in on the price of a new slab which would definitely by good all the way through.

Another approach is to just water blast it thoroughly and apply a self level epoxy. It will look very rough, but that is the cheapest way to get a half decent job.

I did it because my customers were industrial and they did not want to pull up the old and put in new concrete because of the downtime and mess in their production areas, but I was always quoting against others so I never offered the SL option.

 

[Kriilin]

What about using a densifier, then grinding?

 

[slickgt1]

Mud job over that, and porcelain tile. You will never see this problem again.

 

[Hellcat666]

Mud job over that, and porcelain tile. You will never see this problem again.

haha my boss keeps telling me the same thing, i would like to be able to jack a car up in there though, dont think the tiles will hold up to that sorta stress

 

[spy604]

haha my boss keeps telling me the same thing, i would like to be able to jack a car up in there though, dont think the tiles will hold up to that sorta stress

I can think of at least one garage on here that would disagree with that statement

 

[slickgt1]

Umm, I can think of two garages.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95966

 

[thegarageguy]

Hello Hellcat666, your situation isn't unique in the North East. You floor is deteriorated and usually ii is either a bad pour or excessive moisture forcing your slab to slowly degrade into it's current state.

If you notice kngkong's pics, there is a white residue...tough to really see but to me that is a sure sign of efflorescence. Kngkong, an Ardex type self leveler will fail on you unless you use a negative side vapor barrier.

The right thing to do is take core samples to find out the root cause of the deterioration and use the correct system to resurface.

Since it is so rough and possible moisture issues, the best system in my opinion is a urethane concrete flooring system. Holding back up to 15 lbs of vapor emissions and up to 16,000psi....it's a tough floor. Here are a few examples..

 

[kngkong]

Hey GarageGuy

I have no efflorescence. That white must be residue from an early paint layer or something. You can see how it was applied to the stones and has worn from foot traffic.

Ive been suggested these two products here in New Zealand which have been suggested as durable enough as an exposed wear surface.

30 Super Level

Roberts Super Level 30 is a self-smoothing cementitious underlayment when installed 3mm or above, specifically formulated for preparation of concrete sub floors prior to the laying of vinyl, carpet and tile floorcoverings.

The specially selected cements and polymers contained in Super Level 30 produces a fast setting underlayment with exceptional adhesion to most prepared flooring materials.

with this hardener

45 Additive

Roberts 45 additive is a modified synthetic latex compound for adding to Roberts cement underlay powders to improve tensile strength and adhesion.

or Cemlevel10

Cemlevel 10 - Floor Leveller
Self Levelling, Cementitious Flooring System. For 3-30mm applications. CEMLEVEL 10 is a high strength, rapid hardening and self flowing, shrinkage compensated self levelling flooring compound. Under normal conditions access onto the floor is available after 2 - 3 hours and final flooring can be laid after one day (for a 10mm layer) providing that the substrate is suitably dry. The product is supplied as a pre-blended, dry powder designed for application thickness of 3 - 30mm in one operation. CEMLEVEL 10 does not contain casein and other protein bearing additives, making it particular suitable for use in hospitals. For levelling off surface imperfections prior to over layment For filling in minor scratches, gouges and joints in the floor. Cover old adhesives and/or paints in readiness for carpet, vinyl or tiles. Forming ramps and creating falls on a floor surface. Can be used over under floor heating coils. Can be used over wooden surfaces - but any movement in timber will cause cracks. Good resistance to rising damp, alkalis, oils and most chemicals It is recommended that a primer bonding coat of CEMIX MULTIBOND be brush applied to the surface.

I dont think I would be putting Epoxy over this. Either sealer or tile.

I dont want to hijack this thread anymore or derail the original posters direction. I have a dedicated thread here and really appreciate your advice.

 

[thegarageguy]

Dear Kngkong, there are many ways to skin a cat in this biz. Obviously I cannot determine the root cause of your problems from a 72 dpi pic off the web. My suggestion is that you do check for moisture or high gas vapors. We actually do core samples to find out exactly what is going on before we recommend a system.

It's best to determine your exact cause of the problem before you commit to an expensive resurfacer that may fail. Good luck