Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

[kent_323is]

Is it drivable as-is? Will it make it to the alignment place? Have you test driven it long enough to have some confidence?
Can you crack open the fittings to let the air out?

 

[racer-john]

Audi is scheduled for tomorrow at 1pm at the alignment rack. I'm at the office today, and wfh tomorrow to get the car in.
I basically have tonight to get the car ready to go. The power steering still hasn't started working, i think it's a big air bubble and not
bleeding. I'm hoping some motion down the road combined with RPMS will get it to bleed out.

I presume you bled the ABS cylinder, last.

 

[86turbodsl]

Got the audi out of the shop just now. took it down the road to the corner and back. runs good, 2 distinct torque peaks, and pulls harder after 4000 than it ever did. exhaust is louder than stock, but not ridiculous. nice rumble at idle. bumblebee at 4k+ typical 90d v6. brakes are spongy, clutch works fine. still no ps. i hope i can get that air bubble out or i might have to get draconian.

 

[86turbodsl]

Is it drivable as-is? Will it make it to the alignment place? Have you test driven it long enough to have some confidence?
Can you crack open the fittings to let the air out?

I think it's drivable as is. With care. I'm doing back roads over there. short of overheating, which i doubt, it should be ok.

I know of no way to crack fittings to make it bleed. It's a known issue on this engine as the pump is high, the resevoir is slightly lower and the fluid runs out of reservoir to the bottom of the engine then thru a metal pipe up to the pump. so a big sump/loop.

If it doesn't self prime, i might have to pull the hose at pump and use a high sump short term.

 

[86turbodsl]

I presume you bled the ABS cylinder, last.

i didn't do anything with the abs yet. i think there is a procedure to bleed it with the vcds cable.

 

[bimmer1980]

That's a huge milestone to have it out of the shop!!!!

Hopefully the alignment appointment goes ok and the air bubble works it way out of the power steering.

 

[86turbodsl]

Drove it to the appt. No issues. Just no ps. We will get it figured out.

 

[86turbodsl]

Aaand failure. Shifter loosened up just as he was putting on the lift. I am outside the shop stranded waiting on wife and tools.

They also were not happy about no ps.

 

[Johanfpa]

i didn't do anything with the abs yet. i think there is a procedure to bleed it with the vcds cable.

Don't think it is necessary/possible to bleed the ABS on a standard Audi A4

 

[86turbodsl]

It is. There's an abs enable procedure.

 

[86turbodsl]

I'm just going to have to drive and fix it before I comeagain

 

[86turbodsl]

And flat tire when I got back to the car. Shifter is fixed. At least I found a good spot to have a flat!

 

[Mr.zippy]

Man, that car ain't going down without a good fight!

 

[86turbodsl]

Nope

 

[86turbodsl]

What a crappy day. The car ran just fine all the way over to the shop, no issues. I parked it, went inside, told the guy the brakes were spongy and the power steering wasn't working. He said he would not test drive it, and alignment might not be great. He didn't like my custom alignment specs, the technician who was doing the job got it started and into the shop fine, and when he went to move forward onto the lift, he was grinding gears LOUDLY (blowing the teeth off the gears basically) and that's where the shifter loosened up. I got it back into 2nd ONCE to get it out of the shop and it loosened up the rest of the way at the corner. At that point, i had to call the wife, who was 40 miles away, to come get me and drive 25 miles home to get the tools i needed, and the jack, then drive back the 25 miles to fix the car, in under 5 minutes, while i found the tire was flat so i took it off and rolled it over to the tire shop, where i waited an hour to have them tell me the bead and stem were leaking and the rim was bent.
They charged me 30 dollars to reseal it and I put it back on and drove it home with wife following, telling me "is the car supposed to be that loud?" by phone a couple of times.

At this point, i have to fix the brakes and the steering before i can return for alignment.

I have turned the steering wheel back and forth off and running, per procedure, nothing is working. At this point i'm probably going to have to pull the hose and fill the pump manually. Wheeeee

 

[Strouty]

One step forward, five steps back, that is how the last few months have felt for me. I am glad that it is on the road, hopefully the PS will get sorted out, until then, no parallel parking for you.

 

[86turbodsl]

I am right there with you brother. I feel that pain.

 

[Strouty]

I really wish you weren't. Hopefully things will turn a good corner soon. As painful as all the BS is with the day, you did get it out of the shop and on the road, so no matter what it was progress. Don't get too frustrated, the car looks great and with the upgrades you have for the interior it will be even better.

 

[kent_323is]

Sounds like a craptastic day, but still not too surprising based on how little it had been driven and basically only 1 cycle of starting and running.
On the power steering, is there any way you can pressurize the reservoir to push fluid past the air bubble and force it to prime and work the air bubbles out?
Or unbolt the reservoir and move it up high while you cycle the power steering?

I'd advise driving it short drives every day to continue working out the kinks before you take it back for alignment. Those drives could get longer each day if things are working good.

 

[86turbodsl]

kent,

I tried using a rag and a air gun to lightly pressurize the reservoir a few days ago, and all i succeeded in doing is spraying oil all over everything within 15 feet of the reservoir, including me.

I'd been noodling on this problem since yesterday, a few ideas have been - pull the inlet hose to the pump and use a turkey baster to fill the inlet of the pump, rig up a tee at the inlet to the pump to allow priming AND reservoir, pulling the reservoir out of position and elevating, and extending the hoses from reservoir so it can be elevated. All those i think would work, but there is risk in the pump losing prime because that connection needs to be disturbed after priming, and/or would make a mess.

The idea i had this morning i think may have the most promise and least risk. I have spare reservoirs on property. My latest idea was to get one of the caps off the spares, drill it for a hose barb and make a reservoir extension i can elevate a few feet. As we know liquid always seeks a level condition, that should allow the pump to prime sufficiently to get all the air out. Theoretically anyway.

The brakes i think will just have to bleed and rebleed on the lift. There is an ABS bleed procedure that has to be done sometimes when the system goes dry. i think i'm in that position due to how long the system sat open with hoses hanging with no calipers on them.

 

[kent_323is]

The idea i had this morning i think may have the most promise and least risk. I have spare reservoirs on property. My latest idea was to get one of the caps off the spares, drill it for a hose barb and make a reservoir extension i can elevate a few feet. As we know liquid always seeks a level condition, that should allow the pump to prime sufficiently to get all the air out. Theoretically anyway.

The only problem with this is that you probably still have the loop where the air bubble is. That could still be a challenge.
You may also try putting an air fitting on that cap instead, and try to pressurize it that way. That is more likely to push the oil past the loop and get it to prime. Either, low risk to try before getting more complicated.

 

[86turbodsl]

Been doing some research on this issue. There's a document out there on power steering reservoir setup for racing. The factory design basically breaks every rule they lay out.

I'm thinking i might pull the clamp on the pump inlet and use the elevated reservoir idea, with the ability to "burp" the inlet then crimp the new clamp at that point. I don't like the idea of a closed reservoir with a pressure fitting on it. I've already blown up the brake reservoir on my daughter's audi doing pressure bleeding. Short of setting up a regulated air inlet, which will take a lot of fiddling and fittings. Having an air relief port would not be such a difficult thing for the factory to do, and DID do on the coolant inlet pipe to the water pump. Would it have been so hard to add?

In the meantime, i am taking advantage of the shop being empty of that car and will throw some items up on the pallet racking behind the car lift. I've not been able to do that for over a year. More clutter off the floor!

 

[bimmer1980]

Rather than pressurizing the the system, do you have a vacuum brake bleeder?

Yeah, I'm not surprised you are having issues, given the amount of systems that were disassembled.

Regardless, keeping trying things. Eventually, something will work.

After the road side repair, is the shifter issue resolved?

 

[86turbodsl]

I have a vacuum bleeder, a mityvac. i dislike it. I have been using pressure bleeders for a couple years now with no plans to go back.
In this case, if i was to use the vacuum bleeder on the cap, i'd still need to destroy a cap.

The roadside repair was enough to get home. Definitely not enough to prevent any further issues. I plan to use locktite, followed by a nylock backup nut. That design is retarded. There's no splines, no flats, no taper, NOTHING to prevent rotation of the shifter lever on that shaft other than the torque applied by the nut forcing the lever against the shaft. i think the only friction surface is probably the nut and the chamfer where they stopped threading. Just nuts.

 

[Spareparts]

Double nut it with a lock washer between the nuts

 

[86turbodsl]

I stopped at menards on the way home, got some supplies and built the remote / remote reservoir last night. I couldn't try it out due to having to wait for the rtv to cure overnight. I should be good to try tonight. If it doesn't prime at first, i will pull the hose connection at the pump and burp the line at that point. I'm hoping a deltaZ of 3-5 ft fluid level will be enough to get the air past, but you never know.
Once that's done, i'm going to spend Saturday cleaning the shop and reorganizing. I've got about 3 pallet shelves i can load before i run out of forklift height. Hopefully that can put a dent in it. I don't want to put the car back in the shop until i have more room.

 

[86turbodsl]

Stopped at lunch and got locknuts for the shifter. I hope that works out.

 

[Strouty]

I hope the remote reservoir works for you, also totally understand about cleaning things up to get more space, it just makes sense to do it while the car is out.

 

[bimmer1980]

Will we get to see a before and after of the shop cleaning?

Might be an opportunity for a time lapse video....

Hopefully the power steering bleeding goes well.... The blood letting, so to speak....

 

[86turbodsl]

Will we get to see a before and after of the shop cleaning?

Might be an opportunity for a time lapse video....

Hopefully the power steering bleeding goes well.... The blood letting, so to speak....

Great idea. i will see about a timelapse in the morning.

 

[86turbodsl]

Just tried out the remote reservoir. I can report a significant amount of air removed, and a lot of steering returned, still got some air in the lines to purge. i've shut it off and letting the air bubbles come out. I think there might be a couple of rounds of this job.

 

[86turbodsl]

Left it sit for 30 minutes, now i have more steering at lower rpms. It's definitely bleeding out. I'm going to hit it about every 30 minutes the rest of the night. I need it basically wrapped up before bed, we have rain coming in over night and i can't leave the ps reservoir out in the rain.

 

[bimmer1980]

Good to hear there is progress!!! That's a step in the right direction.

 

[Strouty]

At this point any progress on the PS is great news, going from none to some sounds like a win for now, especially where you have what seems to be a workable solution to get it back completely. Hope it went well.

 

[86turbodsl]

I did the deaerate about 4 times. By the end I had steering at idle. Think we're there.

 

[86turbodsl]

Here's the remote reservoir contraption. Seems pretty ok for a couple bucks of scraps and plastic fittings. The cap was salvaged off a parts car.

 

[86turbodsl]

And here's where we're at this morning:

I think the focus for today will be get some pallet rack shelves up and load with as much stuff on the floor as possible to clear more floor space. Once i have more floor space, projects should move quicker.

As far as heat, in case i didn't post about it, the boiler lines, and water tank have been drained, the floor has antifreeze, and the water line from the house has been shut off and heat taped. We should be good for the duration, as long as i can stand it.

I am going to try to get some sort of camera set up, but i probably won't spend a ton of time on it. Daylight is burning.

 

[bimmer1980]

Good the hear the reservoir method works. That type of solution is what I like to see... quick, simple and keep it moving.

Thanks for posting the pictures of the garage/shop space. Helps to understand what you are up against.
Onward and "upward".... put those elves on a shelf! Lol

 

[86turbodsl]

And we're back to no power steering. I think what might be happening is the pump shaft seal might be leaky, you never see it leaking because that's where the air is coming in. It's losing prime. The elevated reservoir is the crutch for that. That's what i think is going on anyway. No power at all after removing the elevated one.

 

[bimmer1980]

Is it leaking any fluid??? If no leaks, I would venture that it just still has more air that is not out of the system...