A (Probably) Dumb Screwdriver Question

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Just a DIYer so I have a question...

How do you remove trailer hub dust caps without using a flat screw driver?

I always use a big pair of channellocks or the brake spring pliers for drum brakes work good too


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[mark#3]

Channel locks pliers?

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Channel locks pliers?

Yep


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

They make a trailer hub cap pliers that making pulling them pretty easy. The first time you use them you will wonder why you didn't spring for them earlier.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/grease-dust-hub-cap-tool/A-p2990281e

Saves even cheap screwdrivers, but more important it makes greasing axels easier.

 

[Indexmill]

Any individual who uses a flat screwdriver as a pry bar shouldn’t be working professionally...

Oh, ********. Every one of us has used a flat blade screwdriver to pry. Better to use a ****** one; but it's fine.

 

[CGarage]

I admit, I did so once as a young man.....and was chastised for it. And given a pry bar shortly thereafter.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I use to keep a old beat up, rounded end screwdriver to open paint cans, then Princess Auto gave out some paint can openers. They work better.

 

[Dave455]

O.P. You are, essentially, correct in your thinking.

If you look at the way screwdrivers evolved, the best ones were always forged, and years ago most grinding wheels were big, so it wasn’t easy to hollow grind something.

I have many screwdrivers with forged tapered blades and they are exceptionally nice to use for some things, but generally the screw slots evolved over the years to suit the drivers (I’m thinking woodscrews here, with relatively shallow slots).

In engineering, screws were traditionally very hard, so if the driver wasn’t an exact fit it didn’t matter.

Gunsmithing was always different, and gunsmiths “turnscrews” were always a different tool to the engineers screwdriver. Shorter blades with hollow ground tips were the norm.

In your position, I would definitely be seeking hollow ground drivers. It’s frustrating that the automotive world doesn’t use them, but that’s the trouble being a specialist!

A suggestion. Start off by acquiring a set of a PB Swiss 1/4” bits. These are hollow ground as standard and a great place to start. Most modern European firearms use standard metric size screws, and these will fit just great. An example is shown below. If you feel a bit more flush, buy a few regular PB Swiss drivers. One of those is shown also.

If you work with slotted screws a lot, you will soon realise that just as nuts and bolts come in Imperial (inch) and Metric sizes, so do screw heads. You wouldn’t use a metric wrench on an SAE nut, so get a set of inch sized screwdrivers for inch sized screw heads. This is harder in hollow ground, but they are out there.

Personally, living in the U.K, I always keep my eyes open for old gunsmiths turnscrews. Many local gunsmiths have a cabinet full of used tools, and amongst the bullet moulds for .577”, the roll crimp tools for 16ga shotshells, and all the other oddment, I usually find a couple.

I seem to recall (trusting memory, always risky) that the stock bolt for a SMLE No.1 has a slot 1/2” wide (by a 1/16” I think). That”s not really screwdriver territory. If I encountered a screw that size on a machine I would use a 1/2 inch drive speeder with a 1/2 inch screwdriver bit. As you have probably found out however, that combination will not fit inside a stock.

The correct armourers tool was a brace with a long shaft, ground to fit that screw. They turn up from time to time, but many folks collect the tools now, which forces prices up.

Personally, I would grind a bit of tool steel to fit, and either drill a hole for a tommy bar, of file some flats and use a tap wrench. There”s a picture below of a similar tool I ground up. This was for a machine, but the same principle applies!

 

[CGarage]

Dave is spot on. There is always the option to modify a screwdriver to fit the slot properly and this is considered the best approach in professional gunsmithing.
If you thought $15 was high for each French screw for a Manurhin (all beautifully batch blued), try the $39 each I had to pay for obscure H&K lens screws that are no longer available. Lesson for the day: Don’t be a hack by damaging fasteners with the wrong tool!!!

 

[CoogarXR]

Just when I thought I had every screwdriver I could need. Great. Now I gotta go find a hollow-ground slotted driver, lol. Dang this place.

Like when you guys turned me on to JIS screwdrivers. WOW. Love 'em. I rarely use any other philips screwdriver anymore. I reach for the JIS 99% of the time.

 

[CGarage]

CougarXR: I agree. The Vessel JIS for philips applications offers the best fit by far.

 

[visionguru]

Any individual who uses a flat screwdriver as a pry bar shouldn’t be working professionally...

LOL. Pry bar can have different sizes. For example, this is basically used as a mini pry bar:
View media item 106169
How do you pry open a can of paint? Ask GJ how many people actually use flat head screwdrivers for screws. Especially for a mechanic, flat head screw drivers are almost never used as screwdrivers, a prying/poking tool instead.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

Mr.Lee of Lee Valley tools was asked why he didn't sell flat bladed screwdrivers that truly fit cabinet screws, I remember his reply in the letter at front of one of the flyers. The tolerance for slotted screws is so large it's impossible to make a screwdriver to fit then all. In Europe, and here too,you can buy woodworking tools made by Lee Valley, they go under the name Veritas.

To hollow grind a bit, I use a 1/2" x 1 1/2" die grinder wheel chucked in the drill press. By now I have done enough bits to fit my rifles. For cabinet work, I just use Robertson.

 

[Lesserstore]

Thanks for all the responses guys! Right now I'm modifying a chisel to fit. I'll post pics when I'm done.

 

[anndel]

Oh, ********. Every one of us has used a flat blade screwdriver to pry. Better to use a ****** one; but it's fine.

Exactly. I was in a bind and didn't run back to my tool box for s hitty one so I used the Snap-on screwdriver that was right next to me.

 

[Lesserstore]

Here's the cold chisel I modified. Fits almost perfectly. I use a 3" extension with an old 1/2" deep socket to get to the screw and it works perfectly.

 

[Wamsutta]

Believe it or not, I have actually seen some straight slots in screw heads that are wedge shaped to match the wedge shape of your typical straight slot screwdriver. In that case, your hollow ground screwdriver is useless!

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Nice too bad that was a Proto chisel lol


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[Lesserstore]

Nice too bad that was a Proto chisel lol


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

It was dull and rusty when I found it so I figured what the heck.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

It was dull and rusty when I found it so I figured what the heck.

Cool lol I have never modified a tool and don’t plan to either lol I couldn’t bring myself to do it cause I can’t stand broke or modified tools in my box lol


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[Shadowdog500]

It seems that most if not all fixed blade screwdrivers sold by companies (from HF to Snap On) targeting mechanics include flat blade screwdrivers that aren't hollow ground. I don't get it, why not have hollow ground blades? I mean the screws you are most likely to encounter are going to fit better with a hollow ground blade. When I was about 12-13 I started tinkering with guns and when my dad saw me taking apart one with a regular flat blade, he told to use only hollow ground blades. I've hardly ever used a regular flat blade since. A few months ago I was working on a 1918 Enfield rifle and there is a big screw that is deep in the stock which connects it to the receiver. My only choice was an extra long regular flat blade which I hated to use on it.
I'm not a mechanic, so is there something I not getting?

I can’t think of any flat head screw on a car that would be tight enough that you could ****** up the slot even if you try.

If you are going to work on guns get a gunsmith screwdriver set. Here is a popular 89 piece China made gunsmith screwdriver set at amazon for $65. Wheeler Engineering Gunsmithing Screwdriver Set with Durable Construction and Storage Case for Gunsmithing and Maintenance https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001C63M7O/?tag=atomicindus08-20
I have this set and like it. It works fine and has a large variety of hollow ground screwdriver tips.

I also have an old set of Chapman which are excellent gunsmith screwdrivers. They are an American made family owned business but they are about twice the price for 20 less pieces but they are an excellent product. Chapman MFG 5575 Master Screwdriver Set 56 Pieces - Includes Phillips, Metric, Slotted, SAE & Metric Hex Bits, Star Bits (for Torx Screws), Complete Set Offers 51 Insert Bits, 300+ Combinations https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00682RIAY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Shadowdog500]

Just a DIYer so I have a question...
How do you remove trailer hub dust caps without using a flat screw driver?

You use something go like this. Snap on wants $84 new but you can find them a lot cheaper.

https://shop.snapon.com/product/Dust-Cap/Grease-and-Dust-Cap-Tool/GCP10

Here is a $47 snap on knockoff HUB/DUST Cap PLIER HD (VIM-V214) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JF5CM1G/?tag=atomicindus08-20


Here is a $28 version VIM Tools V216 Hub and Dust Cap Plier https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000X2533Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20


Here is a driver tool to install them.

.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

And I thought paying $29 Canadian was high ! A Canadian dollar worth only about 75 cents US. There is a link in one of my earlier posts.

 

[Shadowdog500]

And I thought paying $29 Canadian was high ! A Canadian dollar worth only about 75 cents US. There is a link in one of my earlier posts.

Thanks, I just went back and found it. I’m still working my way through the posts in this thread. Harbor freight don’t sell one down here so it’s snap on, amazon, or eBay for a used snap on.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Here's the cold chisel I modified. Fits almost perfectly. I use a 3" extension with an old 1/2" deep socket to get to the screw and it works perfectly.

What screw are you removing from a gun that needs a screw head that big?

 

[Indexmill]

Exactly. I was in a bind and didn't run back to my tool box for s hitty one so I used the Snap-on screwdriver that was right next to me.

Exactly. And who has never used the handle end of a screwdriver to tap/hit something?

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I was under the log decks of a sawmill at 30 below. One of the electrical switched valves was frozen, our air wasn't dry enough, so I tapped it with my screwdriver handle. The handle shattered. It was a good Will, too.

 

[SuitorsGarage]

Cool lol I have never modified a tool and don’t plan to either lol I couldn’t bring myself to do it cause I can’t stand broke or modified tools in my box lol

You're young...you will eventually end up with a drawer full of modified tools to get certain jobs done.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Your young...you will eventually end up with a drawer full of modified tools to get certain jobs done.

I sure hope not lol. But it is possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

 

[Lesserstore]

What screw are you removing from a gun that needs a screw head that big?

It's a stock screw. On the end of the screw there is a squared section that protrudes thru the receiver socket and locks into a slot in the forend.
Here's some pics.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

It's a smiley, or here in Canada, called a Lee Enfield. When you said 1918 Enfield, I thought of the model of 1917 , also commonly called the Enfield . And I was wondering?? where that screw was.

 

[Lesserstore]

It's my dad's. He bought it a few months ago for me to work on and repair/replace missing or broken parts. He also has a 1944 U.S. property marked Savage- Stevens No. 4 MK. 1* that's in beautiful shape due to it being refurbished after WWII. And no ugly import marks except for the sold out of service marks.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

You have to wonder how a 303 came to be marked as U.S. property ? Steve on the 24 Campfire Canada forum is an expert on them.

I have a sporterized Model of 1917 that was of the 100,000 purchased during WW2 for use in Canada. It had the Canadian Army cartouche' . Once it crossed the border it became a officially a P-17. It had headspace questions, so now it's a 308Norma.

 

[Lesserstore]

It's a Lend Lease rifle. 30-35 years ago my dad had a P14. It was his favorite rifle and then a recession came and he had to sell it. He told me it was all matching and he said he only paid $125 for it. Now P14s go for $600 and up and M1917s are $800 on a good day on up to $1800.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I do have a P-14, I paid all of $40 for "some kind of Mauser in 303" at a gunshow. I put a trigger on it, a coil spring ejector, did a semi inlet stock and Parker-Hale rear sight. They are rare for the P-14, I found it in England. With it's iron sights,it's easily my favourite rifle to take to the range.

 

[dnschmidt]

Oddly, TOPTUL'S stubby flat head screwdrivers are hollow ground. The reason likely is that this takes up a lot less real estate than the taper normally used on slotted screwdrivers so their stubby slotted drivers are much shorter than they would need to be with a full taper. At this point in time slotted head screwdrivers are used almost exclusively for prying stuff. That's why I typically buy the through shank versions so that I can use them to beat on ****. Which actually seems to be their primary usefulness.

 

[66HertzClone]

I used exhaust pipe adapters for many years to set those bearing caps back in place. They were cheap and came in a huge variety of sizes.

 

[Tostal]

I may be mistaken, but I think Wiha makes hollow ground screwdrivers.

Like the stubby on the left in this photo?

T~

 

[Ricky Joe]

Lol [emoji23] we don’t see a whole lot of rust down here in the south and as for the Beetle rust it is easy to spot considering my foot almost goes thru the floor and everything on those things rust lol. I am restoring my beetle and my next mission is the floor pans just have to find someone with a welder since at my work we can’t bring in our personal cars cause of Covid so I can’t bring it in right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal

You are welcome to use my shop and welder to fix your car. 540-493-8756.

 

[shockwave]

For the work you do look at nepros or witte for some nice wood handle screwdrivers and blades are usually solid one piece