Air compressor for the new shop

[tarbellb]

How would Eaton know the oil change interval?

 

[beemerphile]

Thanks for this. Yes the more I think about it $340 a year is pretty ridiculous. Like I said I go back and forth minute to minute ....................then a post like this makes me think about everything again. At least I have time to weigh everything and contemplate all the options. I would rather spend the time then money wasted. I just quickly google the QT 7.5 man they are expensive $3100+. I guess I also have the option of not following their warranty then I wonder what is covered? I will have to ask them that.

Basic warranty is one year. If it doesn't break in a year, it will probably life a good life. Unlike the big box store units, you probably don't have to worry about wearing it out.

 

[Steve_P]

I looked, and I bought my Quincy QT7.5 in 3/03 and it was $1659, before tax, with magnetic starter installed and free delivery. After doing research on what to chose, I bought it from an industrial supplier about 90 miles away- over the phone. IIRC the pump runs at ~1050 RPM. It is definitely LOUD. At that time they were all US made; the motor on mine is a Baldor from AR. Yes, it is not the ultimate splash lube, reed valve, 600 RPM..... compressor, but for home use, it should outlast me. And it better. If I could've done it again 5-10 years ago, when I had more $, I would've tried to find something lower RPM; but at that time this was already more than I could afford. I can't remember why I didn't go with Eaton, maybe I didn't know about them...

If you keep oil in them, splash lube lawnmowers last until the rings or valves wear out from use; the connecting rods don't wear out. And they have 5X the cylinder pressure of even a 175 PSI compressor. I adjusted my shutoff to ~150 PSI as that's more than I need. Pressure lube is definitely superior than splash, but a BMW 7 series is also superior to a Camry; yet both will last about the same and get you to work.

The Eaton warranty seems like extortion. After 5 years, you're in for over $1500. WTF? That's insane. It's like they're selling the compressor at cost and making all the $ on $150 a quart of "magic" oil.

 

[Iron Beaver]

For home use, splash lube and reed valves are fine. You are not going to wear out a quality-built cast iron pump with intermittent home use because it's splash lube. Yes, it's not the best, but probably 99% of piston compressors sold are splash lube. I have a QT7.5, it's somehow managed to survive just fine for 19? years. The only reason I need something this big is for sandblasting, but it's handy for when using a die grinder, etc. Agree that the CFM ratings on most air tools are complete BS- it's like they assume you're only going to use them for half that minute.
That Eaton warranty maintenance is crazy expensive. And changing compressor oil once a year for home use is ridiculous.

Edit- I've changed the oil 2-3 times, I can't remember, in 19 years. It comes out looking new, as it should.

True, but...

Splash lube and disk valves are better. A neighbor of mine has a splash lube reed valve compressor (pretty standard ABAC pump and generic motor) that has lasted him more than a decade. But "Home use" varies. I run a plasma cutter, a die grinder, and a 4HP angle grinder on a pretty regular basis. When I used a similar (but smaller) reed valve compressor it overheated a lot because I pushed it past it's design parameters.

 

[Iron Beaver]

No one ever said I wish my compressor was smaller, LOL.

I did, once. The time I had to move it from a small door through a narrow path to its final resting place.

That is a distant memory. Now I wish it were twice as big.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

No way I would even consider a single stage compressor in my shop again, I like air tools to actually work. Have had an 80 gallon two stage in the shop for 30 years but I upgraded several times before getting to that point. It would have been way cheaper to just buy the big compressor right up front rather than try to get by with something less.

Single stage compressors don't produce enough pressure to operate air tools adequately throughout the entire pressure range. I regulate my line pressure to 120 psi to maintain a constant 90 psi flowing to the tool. A two stage can easily maintain a steady 120 psi line pressure. Single stage compressors cycle between 90-125 psi, so that allows the tool end pressure to drop even lower. The line pressure is constantly fluctuating up and down as the pump cycles. Your impact runs really low on power until the compressor kicks on and builds up. You can hardly even think about running a die grinder or cut off tool with a single stage, you get about 30 seconds use before you're out of air. A 5hp two stage can run an air hungry tool like these continuously.

Last spring I was looking to buy a Quincy QT-5 for $2400 or QT-54 for $1400 at a local farm store. I ran across a deal on an Emax, 10hp, 38cfm 80 gallon two stage, on sale for $2250 with free shipping. Has a 1750 rpm motor, low speed Eaton pump with disc valves and pressure lube. It outputs more than double the CFM of the quincy and can accept a continuous run kit for blasting. Can't even believe how much quieter it is compared to my old two stage. Same compressor is around $3600 this year. Sure glad I caught that sale.

I installed the new compressor in my shop and moved the old two stage to my garage. It replaced a 20 gallon portable. It's super nice to finally have adequate air when I need to work in there.

This sounds like too much pump, not enough tank + incorrect setpoints. put enough tank on it so you can run 100-120PSI tank, or set it to continuous run. that or use a bigger hose so you're not compensating for pressure drop with money on the compressor end.

After further review, I think I am going to look hard at Eaton. It seems like it has the best warranty and that makes a difference to me when spending a lot of money on a piece of equipment.

5 HP Air Compressors Archives

5 HP Air Compressors. Eaton Compressor carries a wide variety of rotary screw and piston air compressors with the best warranty in the business.

eatoncompressor.com

I have this Eaton, with over 4000 hours on it so far:


I'm happy with it, and their warranty service.

Check the cost of the required maintenance in order to keep the warranty. You have to buy the oil and filters from them and they are QUITE proud of them. Also, the required oil change frequency is overkill for someone with intermittent use. I have an Emax that I haven't placed in service yet, and I have not decided whether I will do what it takes to keep the warranty.

Is that an Emax? Yes I saw the oil, filter etc. is $340, how often do they make you buy it for the warranty?

Yes, it is an EMax. I'm not sure, but I believe the oil change interval for the extended warranty was six months.

I do mine per the PLC, which is every 1000 hours. it turns on monday at 7am, and turns off friday at 4pm.

 

[iamrfixit]

This sounds like too much pump, not enough tank + incorrect setpoints. put enough tank on it so you can run 100-120PSI tank, or set it to continuous run. that or use a bigger hose so you're not compensating for pressure drop with money on the compressor end.

Not sure what you're talking about. You can't maintain a constant PSI if the compressor cycles 30 psi below desired pressure. Bigger tank is no help, it is still going to fall to 90 psi before the compressor kicks on, it just takes longer. Adjusting the pressure switch changes both the cut in and cut out. You can't just raise the pressure on a single stage, nothing is rated to operate at higher pressure and you'll probably shorten the life of the pump. Not many single stage are equipped to unload for continuous run.

You'll always have some pressure drop through the hard lines, filter, regulator, hose, hose reel and couplers. Oversize lines, hoses and high flow couplers can reduce, but will never eliminate pressure drop. Who would want to drag a half inch hose around all the time anyway. It's easier just get a two stage compressor designed to produce higher pressure and also benefit from higher CFM to power tools like a die grinder or cut off. You can certainly make do with a single stage, but it will demand many concessions as to how you use it.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Not sure what you're talking about. You can't maintain a constant PSI if the compressor cycles 30 psi below desired pressure. Bigger tank is no help, it is still going to fall to 90 psi before the compressor kicks on, it just takes longer. Adjusting the pressure switch changes both the cut in and cut out. You can't just raise the pressure on a single stage, nothing is rated to operate at higher pressure and you'll probably shorten the life of the pump. Not many single stage are equipped to unload for continuous run.

You'll always have some pressure drop through the hard lines, filter, regulator, hose, hose reel and couplers. Oversize lines, hoses and high flow couplers can reduce, but will never eliminate pressure drop. Who would want to drag a half inch hose around all the time anyway. It's easier just get a two stage compressor designed to produce higher pressure and also benefit from higher CFM to power tools like a die grinder or cut off. You can certainly make do with a single stage, but it will demand many concessions as to how you use it.

Pressure switches with adjustable differential are not hard to find. lower the differential and raise the cut-in pressure. the bigger tank prevents short cycling.

if your compressor can't keep up while it's running, you need a bigger pump, two-stage isn't a magic fix. in fact, all it is is trading pressure for intermittent flow. so effectively you have a "bigger tank" of 100PSI air when you regulate down to 100PSI from 175PSI. it doesn't matter how big your compressor is or how many stages it has, if your load exceeds the pump's CFM you'll eventually have problems.

The only way to "maintain a constant pressure" is to adjust the speed of the pump. any downward regulation of pressure is trading money for stored CFM. all the extra energy spent to compress it beyond the regulated pressure thrown away.

 

[Maxcustody]

Basic warranty is one year. If it doesn't break in a year, it will probably life a good life. Unlike the big box store units, you probably don't have to worry about wearing it out.

That is what I am thinking and for the price I can't find a better deal.

 

[Maxcustody]

How would Eaton know the oil change interval?

When I spoke to them yesterday you have to purchase the maintenance kit from them directly. They will be able to see when you bought each maintenance kit. So regardless if I changed it they expect you to purchase 1x per year.

I think I am wrong on the price though. I looked again and those priced kits are for rotary screw compressors.

 

[iamrfixit]

Pressure switches with adjustable differential are not hard to find. lower the differential and raise the cut-in pressure. the bigger tank prevents short cycling.

if your compressor can't keep up while it's running, you need a bigger pump, two-stage isn't a magic fix. in fact, all it is is trading pressure for intermittent flow. so effectively you have a "bigger tank" of 100PSI air when you regulate down to 100PSI from 175PSI. it doesn't matter how big your compressor is or how many stages it has, if your load exceeds the pump's CFM you'll eventually have problems.

The only way to "maintain a constant pressure" is to adjust the speed of the pump. any downward regulation of pressure is trading money for stored CFM. all the extra energy spent to compress it beyond the regulated pressure thrown away.

OK, still can't maintain 120 psi line pressure with a compressor that is only capable of producing 120 psi, but cycles down to 90, 100 or even 110. Narrowing the differential too much only makes the compressor short cycle unless you add additional or upgrade tanks. Most people aren't going to be blasting or continually using large amounts of air, especially using a single stage. Single stage have a shorter duty cycle and are not built to run long periods. A multi stage with inter-cooling is more suited for continuous or long run intervals.

Bottom line, if you can't maintain adequate line pressure at the tool, your impact or any other tool does not operate at full power. The easiest solution is just buy more compressor. The logical step is simply move up to the common 5hp two stage on a 60-80 gallon tank, rather than fool with spending money and cobbling on parts in attempt to make a single stage do the job.

The higher 175psi a two stage can produce gives an added benefit of storing about 50% more cubic feet of air in the same size tank. Early on I tried using a 20, 30 and 60 gallon single stage compressor in my shop because it was what I could afford. Finally got a 5hp 80 gallon two stage I've used since 93. Last spring I upgraded to a 38 cfm, 10hp emax so I can do some blasting.

 

[Maxcustody]

I looked, and I bought my Quincy QT7.5 in 3/03 and it was $1659, before tax, with magnetic starter installed and free delivery. After doing research on what to chose, I bought it from an industrial supplier about 90 miles away- over the phone. IIRC the pump runs at ~1050 RPM. It is definitely LOUD. At that time they were all US made; the motor on mine is a Baldor from AR. Yes, it is not the ultimate splash lube, reed valve, 600 RPM..... compressor, but for home use, it should outlast me. And it better. If I could've done it again 5-10 years ago, when I had more $, I would've tried to find something lower RPM; but at that time this was already more than I could afford. I can't remember why I didn't go with Eaton, maybe I didn't know about them...

If you keep oil in them, splash lube lawnmowers last until the rings or valves wear out from use; the connecting rods don't wear out. And they have 5X the cylinder pressure of even a 175 PSI compressor. I adjusted my shutoff to ~150 PSI as that's more than I need. Pressure lube is definitely superior than splash, but a BMW 7 series is also superior to a Camry; yet both will last about the same and get you to work.

The Eaton warranty seems like extortion. After 5 years, you're in for over $1500. WTF? That's insane. It's like they're selling the compressor at cost and making all the $ on $150 a quart of "magic" oil.

Thanks. Yes I agree warranty at that price is insane. However I think I am wrong on the maintenance kit I was looking at it was for rotary screw compressors. I looked at the compressor you have and they want $3100+ now.

 

[Maxcustody]

This sounds like too much pump, not enough tank + incorrect setpoints. put enough tank on it so you can run 100-120PSI tank, or set it to continuous run. that or use a bigger hose so you're not compensating for pressure drop with money on the compressor end.

I have this Eaton, with over 4000 hours on it so far:


I'm happy with it, and their warranty service.





I do mine per the PLC, which is every 1000 hours. it turns on monday at 7am, and turns off friday at 4pm.

Great compressor, thanks for this. I was wrong on the price of the maintenance kit that price was for a screw compressor.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

I'd look at a DV Systems HDI 5hp with the 247 pump, and a Jenny as well. Curtis Masterline, maybe a Kellogg. I'm partial to the Champion myself. They aren't the value proposition they used to be though.

 

[Maxcustody]

I'd look at a DV Systems HDI 5hp with the 247 pump, and a Jenny as well. Curtis Masterline, maybe a Kellogg. I'm partial to the Champion myself. They aren't the value proposition they used to be though.

Thanks. One thing I don't care for about Champion is I can't even talk to them? You have to send them a message and they will get back to you. I call Eaton and someone actually answers the phone every time you call. Not some computer generated thing or "leave a message". To me this is better customer service.

I will check out the others you suggested.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Thanks. One thing I don't care for about Champion is I can't even talk to them? You have to send them a message and they will get back to you. I call Eaton and someone actually answers the phone every time you call. Not some computer generated thing or "leave a message". To me this is better customer service.

I will check out the others you suggested.

One of my pet peeves. If you can't reach anyone for even simple questions, what are you going to do when you have a real problem with their product?

 

[bsaint]

One of my pet peeves. If you can't reach anyone for even simple questions, what are you going to do when you have a real problem with their product?

It's because there's no more champion. It's gardner Denver now.

If you deal with a champion dealer that's your best bet

 

[Matt018888]

Did you decide on a compressor yet? One thing to note... If you know anything about pneumatics a 60 gal compressor at full psi is a dormant bomb waiting to go off. In home shops they tend to be neglected. I would add a auto drain to the budget to prolong the life of a tank. Never had one rupture, but I due hydrostaticly test any used ones I buy. Unfortunately air compressors are a necessary evil In a shop. And what I mean by that is, they are very inefficient as a 5hp motor runs a small impact or other similar tools. On the other hand the tools last quite a long time. I would suggest to buy one larger than you think you need because just like toolbox's you'll grow out of a smaller one.

 

[Maxcustody]

One of my pet peeves. If you can't reach anyone for even simple questions, what are you going to do when you have a real problem with their product?

Exactly! It is hard to find good customer service.

 

[BreeStephany]

- Being hardwired does it need an emergency shut off switch?

Would the compressor be within sight and within 50ft of the panel that would be supplying it?

 

[Maxcustody]

Did you decide on a compressor yet? One thing to note... If you know anything about pneumatics a 60 gal compressor at full psi is a dormant bomb waiting to go off. In home shops they tend to be neglected. I would add a auto drain to the budget to prolong the life of a tank. Never had one rupture, but I due hydrostaticly test any used ones I buy. Unfortunately air compressors are a necessary evil In a shop. And what I mean by that is, they are very inefficient as a 5hp motor runs a small impact or other similar tools. On the other hand the tools last quite a long time. I would suggest to buy one larger than you think you need because just like toolbox's you'll grow out of a smaller one.

WOW That is scary! Yes I have decided on an Eaton 7.5, 80 gallon. This one..............

7.5 HP Quiet Air Compressor, Single Phase, 80 Gallon Tank, Vertical, Industrial

Eaton Compressor carries an impressive line of quiet air compressors, including this single phase 7.5 HP Quiet Air Compressor with 80 Gallon Tank.

eatoncompressor.com

I am going to order direct and pick it up from the factory in Ohio.

 

[Maxcustody]

Would the compressor be within sight and within 50ft of the panel that would be supplying it?

Yes it will. I think I would like to add a shutoff near it, in the planning phase for electric so better to add now than down the road. I can't imagine it would be any big deal for the electrician. However, I may be totally wrong in that assumption?

 

[Steve_P]

Did you decide on a compressor yet? One thing to note... If you know anything about pneumatics a 60 gal compressor at full psi is a dormant bomb waiting to go off. In home shops they tend to be neglected. I would add a auto drain to the budget to prolong the life of a tank. Never had one rupture, but I due hydrostaticly test any used ones I buy. Unfortunately air compressors are a necessary evil In a shop. And what I mean by that is, they are very inefficient as a 5hp motor runs a small impact or other similar tools. On the other hand the tools last quite a long time. I would suggest to buy one larger than you think you need because just like toolbox's you'll grow out of a smaller one.

As far as the "time bomb", I'll disagree with this for me, and probably 99% of the people here. Businesses don't drain their compressors in my experience. Because they're busy with everything else- trying to do business to pay the bills- draining the compressor isn't on the top 20 list of things to do. The shops I worked at drained the tanks yearly at best, and gallons of water came out. I drain mine a few times a year and get a few ounces at a time. No one thinks about draining the air compressor when there are customers to serve. And I never remember either shops ever changing the oil.

 

[Maxcustody]

I will try to remember to drain mine often. I don't need my new building blowing up

 

[Steve_P]

True, but...

Splash lube and disk valves are better. A neighbor of mine has a splash lube reed valve compressor (pretty standard ABAC pump and generic motor) that has lasted him more than a decade. But "Home use" varies. I run a plasma cutter, a die grinder, and a 4HP angle grinder on a pretty regular basis. When I used a similar (but smaller) reed valve compressor it overheated a lot because I pushed it past it's design parameters.

Agree, but I have two blast cabinets and a pressure pot sand blaster. I use my compressor when I need it. No issues with overheating as it's 22+ CFM at 175 PSI. The reason I bought it is for blasting. My old IR T-10 would do everything else but run the pressure pot blaster. It would struggle on the blast cabinet, but I used a small nozzle and kept a fan on the pump. It was enough to get the job done for a hobbyist until I needed to do pressure blasting. At that point I gave the IR to a friend and it's still kicking 30 years later.

 

[Matt018888]

As far as the "time bomb", I'll disagree with this for me, and probably 99% of the people here. Businesses don't drain their compressors in my experience. Because they're busy with everything else- trying to do business to pay the bills- draining the compressor isn't on the top 20 list of things to do. The shops I worked at drained the tanks yearly at best, and gallons of water came out. I drain mine a few times a year and get a few ounces at a time. No one thinks about draining the air compressor when there are customers to serve. And I never remember either shops ever changing the oil.

Most of the shops by me and myself included have service plans with the retailer we bought our compressor from. They change the oil and filters once a year and insure the auto drains are functional. Scary to think they don't drain the water with out a auto drain it just takes a couple of minutes before you turn the lights off.

 

[BreeStephany]

Yes it will. I think I would like to add a shutoff near it, in the planning phase for electric so better to add now than down the road. I can't imagine it would be any big deal for the electrician. However, I may be totally wrong in that assumption?

It would fall under the 'Within sight' rule and does not 'require' a disconnecting means, but it never hurts to have a disconnect for it so you don't have to run to your panel to shut it off.

Your electrician can either use a properly sized cord cap and receptacle as a means of disconnect or use a simple fused or unfused disconnect and run flex from the motor to the disconnect.

As an electrician, both are pretty easy options to install.

 

[Maxcustody]

It would fall under the 'Within sight' rule and does not 'require' a disconnecting means, but it never hurts to have a disconnect for it so you don't have to run to your panel to shut it off.

Your electrician can either use a properly sized cord cap and receptacle as a means of disconnect or use a simple fused or unfused disconnect and run flex from the motor to the disconnect.

As an electrician, both are pretty easy options to install.

Thank you. I am going to meet with him in a couple of weeks to discuss layout of outlets, switches , lights, etc. I will add this to my list.

 

[beemerphile]

Your electrician can either use a properly sized cord cap and receptacle as a means of disconnect or use a simple fused or unfused disconnect and run flex from the motor to the disconnect.

A 7.5HP rated cord and receptacle? I think a disconnect and flex is way cheaper and even if not code required, a good idea.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

As far as the "time bomb", I'll disagree with this for me, and probably 99% of the people here. Businesses don't drain their compressors in my experience. Because they're busy with everything else- trying to do business to pay the bills- draining the compressor isn't on the top 20 list of things to do. The shops I worked at drained the tanks yearly at best, and gallons of water came out. I drain mine a few times a year and get a few ounces at a time. No one thinks about draining the air compressor when there are customers to serve. And I never remember either shops ever changing the oil.

one of the first things I did when I took this job was to add an air dryer and fix the auto drain - someone saw a dripping pipe and had capped it off!
I won't make time to carry 40 gallons of dirty compressor water in buckets twice a week in the summer. hoses exist for a reason.

 

[Maxcustody]

@beemerphile. I was thinking of something like this. I am having a licensed electrician complete all the work. However, I am lucky where I live there are no inspections needed.

 

[bsaint]

I wonder who makes that Eaton pump...

Another brand to consider is Schulz. Eaton looks about the same quality, **** maybe even thats who supplies Eaton with pumps.

Schulz of America | Air Compressors, Air Treatment, Lubricants and Spare Parts (schulzamerica.com)

Just opened a new office
Schulz of America | Air Compressors, Air Treatment, Lubricants and Spare Parts (schulzamerica.com)

Ive always wanted to make my own single cylinder, double acting compressor rated at about 5hp. Maybe one day.

 

[beemerphile]

@beemerphile. I was thinking of something like this. I am having a licensed electrician complete all the work. However, I am lucky where I live there are no inspections needed.

That looks like a maintained PB station. It can certainly be used to start and stop the compressor, but it won't allow integration with the shop lights without redesigning the circuit inside the factory supplied starter.

 

[Maxcustody]

That looks like a maintained PB station. It can certainly be used to start and stop the compressor, but it won't allow integration with the shop lights without redesigning the circuit inside the factory supplied starter.

Just posted as something similar to what I was thinking as a disconnect.

 

[Maxcustody]

I wonder who makes that Eaton pump...

Another brand to consider is Schulz. Eaton looks about the same quality, **** maybe even thats who supplies Eaton with pumps.

Schulz of America | Air Compressors, Air Treatment, Lubricants and Spare Parts (schulzamerica.com)

Just opened a new office
Schulz of America | Air Compressors, Air Treatment, Lubricants and Spare Parts (schulzamerica.com)

Ive always wanted to make my own single cylinder, double acting compressor rated at about 5hp. Maybe one day.

I will check them out.

 

[beemerphile]

Just posted as something similar to what I was thinking as a disconnect.

That is not a disconnect. A disconnect removes the power to the machine. This is just a pilot device intended to operate the motor control circuit.

 

[Maxcustody]

That is not a disconnect. A disconnect removes the power to the machine. This is just a pilot device intended to operate the motor control circuit.

Gotcha, so more like this?

 

[beemerphile]

Gotcha, so more like this?

yup.

 

[Maxcustody]

yup.

On my list to add.............

 

[PoorUB]

When I spoke to them yesterday you have to purchase the maintenance kit from them directly. They will be able to see when you bought each maintenance kit. So regardless if I changed it they expect you to purchase 1x per year.

I think I am wrong on the price though. I looked again and those priced kits are for rotary screw compressors.

Pretty sure that violates the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Seems to me they have to provide the parts for free if you are required to buy OEM parts and oil. They can require regular maintenance, just not require you to buy OEM if a suitable aftermarket part is available.