American Pacemaker - WW2 16x30 back from the dead

[DocsMachine]

Hard to see in there with camera, but I can report that everything is in perfect condition and shifts just fine. Everything has been officially checked out now. Only thing left to free up is a little bit of the taper attachment.

-Noice.

And I actually was surprised you hadn't done that yet. It's not common, but I have seen (at least online) pictures of machines that had been out in the weather (as all of ours had) for extended periods, and either some minor missing part or a poorly-located air vent or something let water into the gearcase.

There was a pic somewhere in the depths of PM, showing such a machine- I don't recall the specifics, but suffice to say that quite a bit of water had snuck it's way in, and produced considerable rust on the bearings, gears and shafts. I don't recall what happened, or if the guy even said, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear he'd junked it.

It was that specific picture that led me to pull the top cover of mine first thing- like before even handing any money over. As I've said, I thought I could fix most of the external issues, but if the geartrain was in bad shape, that would have pushed an already iffy repair over into the scrap pile.

And not to steal the limelight from the 16" because it's an awesome machine in it's own right, but did you see job_shopper_tn's 22.5" on instagram? Dang. I want.

-I hate that people put good build pics on places like Facebook and Instagram- FB is basically unsearchable if you're looking for information on a build, and Instagram is actually kind of a poor format for a series of build photos with comments.

Doc.

 

[86turbodsl]

Doc, I agree 100pct. I really like forums. They are easily searchable and content is maintained usually. I know everything is moving to other platforms but I likely won't follow. I don't want to view everything on my damn phone.

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[Pressingonward]

Doc, I agree 100pct. I really like forums. They are easily searchable and content is maintained usually. I know everything is moving to other platforms but I likely won't follow. I don't want to view everything on my damn phone.

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I wholeheartedly agree, including the phone comment (as I post this on my phone, and see that you posted from yours )

Glad your lathe gears are in good shape - looks like a nice hunk of iron! Should make some nice parts when you get her going.

 

[86turbodsl]

Well i managed to pick up a few things for the lathe. A 15.5in faceplate, a 8" three jaw chuck with 2 sets of jaws, inner and outer (sadly not 2 pc jaws, but hey, for the price..) and a dog faceplate. All were at a local auction, ironically enough, in my home town 60 miles from my current home. I'd never even known the facility was there! All those years growing up and driving around constantly, never went all the way down that street. Pretty cool though. I got all of the parts for about 200.

They did have some CXA sized tool posts, with about a half dozen tool holders each, but they went for near 200 each, and they were import anyway, and quite well used. I figured if i was going to spend that much, spend a little more for a NEW tool post package and it'll be new. It's supposed to be warm this weekend, so i am hoping to get out into the shop and spend some more quality time with the lathe.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Good that you've found some more chucks. We'll need a new one. Current one has so much slop in the jaws that it holds very bellmouthed. The teeth seem ok, but the grooves are trashed. Dad bought a great one a few years back in a lot and flipped it to a friend, now we wish we had it back.

Must be nice being in machinery heaven where you are haha.

 

[86turbodsl]

it's literally the ONLY thing i like about the frozen north.

What mount on the lathe? I'll keep an eye out.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

D1-6. Ideally a 15"+, but I'd settle for a clean 12.

 

[86turbodsl]

I'll keep my eyes out for a chuck for you. D1-6 should be a pretty easy find. They had a couple at the place i bought mine, my chuck was 130. The faceplates were 40 for the pair. Have you considered what a 15" chuck is going to weigh? My 12" was so heavy i hurt my arm getting it off. I have decided a jib crane will be over the lathe.

I picked everything up on Monday. The dog faceplate is on it now. it fit nicely. Man i want to get back on that lathe...

 

[DocsMachine]

My 12" 4-jaw is a chunk, but I can manage it. The 10" 3-jaw isn't too bad either.

I recently picked up a 15" 4-jaw, however (L-1 spindle) and she's a beast. A two-person affair, really. It has a factory drilled and tapped hole in the side specifically to screw in an eye bolt for lifting.

Not sure exactly how I'm gonna do it, but I'll be putting in some kind of overhead miniature trolley, or a "skyhook" crane or some similar route. I don't want to wind up effectively "locked in" to just one chuck because they're too hard to swap.

Doc.

 

[Steve from Socal]

You need a jib crane, attach it to the lathe AND floor. My 15" 4 jaw weighs about 125~140?

For both chucks and work they are indispensable on larger machines.

Steve

 

[86turbodsl]

That there is exactly what I'm thinking.

Here's all the new hardware.



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[86turbodsl]

D1-6. Ideally a 15"+, but I'd settle for a clean 12.

There's a brand new 15 in d1 6 buck Chuck on Toledo Facebook marketplace. 1600 asking price. Dunno if you have a budget.

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[ClappedOutBport]

Nope. Like said, dad gave up a flawless 12" for like $200, so ideally we'll find another very good deal like that.

 

[Steve from Socal]

There's a brand new 15 in d1 6 buck Chuck on Toledo Facebook marketplace. 1600 asking price. Dunno if you have a budget.

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That is pretty high considering the actual market for a chuck of that size and configuration. Even a grand is steep on a platform like FB, maybe MSC but not a garage sale site!!!!

Steve

 

[86turbodsl]

I've seen all sorts of prices, but bigger than 12in don't show up very much. I agree it's high. Higher than I would go.

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[ClappedOutBport]

I've seen all sorts of prices, but bigger than 12in don't show up very much. I agree it's high. Higher than I would go.

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There is always stuff like this if we had to. https://www.ebay.com/itm/TMX-16-4-Jaw-Independent-Manual-Chuck-Plain-Back-3-850-1600/173324323198

It looks a little light duty though. Not much casting support and small jaws.

Something like this 15" cushman looks about right, but I bet it's extremely heavy. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cushman-15...aw-D1-6-Mount-Lathe-Chuck-3-Bore/223615837694

With patience I think one will turn up. We might be able to borrow the good 12 that dad sold for a while.

A guy on PM has a 16" on his 14" and it just looks proper.

 

[86turbodsl]

Ha! That first one is in Euclid, OH, where HGR is. I bet HGR has a chuck for you. I checked there for mine for a while. But then found one close to home.

 

[Steve from Socal]

Small tools, the first ebay seller has a ton of tooling at reasonable prices. Shipping is going to be costly on a 150 pound chuck.

Steve

 

[86turbodsl]

Find one up here somewhere, I'll bring it south. Got a trip planned this spring down to Texas. Got room in the truck.

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[Duker]

Find one up here somewhere, I'll bring it south. Got a trip planned this spring down to Texas. Got room in the truck.

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Since you’re traveling to Texas....

What size taper is your tail stock ? I have a bunch or 5-6 MT drill bits I need to find a home for....


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[86turbodsl]

I think it's 4MT. Don't quote me on that though.

I found a 12" 4-jaw in Toledo for $150

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I visited my schools machine shop for the first time yesterday and I was surprised at the machinery. I've been to tech colleges before, and they were selling off all of their nice American machines and doing Asian 13x40s across the board. No variation at all, all the same model. It was sad. I guess since my school is much more of a research institute, they had a little higher grade of machine. But I was surprised. 2 10EEs, a Rivett 1020s, 2 K&T 2D tool and die mills, and my favorite, a 16x30 American Pacemaker.

Wow. What a beast. It's my first seeing one in the flesh. I like our Sidney, don't get me wrong, but it's a much lighter machine. I like the controls and the fit and finish and just everything about the pacemaker better. 2000RPM high speed instead of 560. It's just a better lathe, no way around it. You'll have a super machine there when you're done 86.

The instructor said he's planning on selling some of the old machines soon, but I'm sure this one will go high to a local machinery dealer. Over $3000 probably. I was told it was "broken" but maybe I'll get to use it a bit before they sell it.

It definitely hurts a bit to see the super accurate machines used by students. The Rivett had quite noticeable dings on the spindle nose for example. What's the point in having accurate machines if they're incapable of accurate work? Aggravating to me.

 

[jabberwoki]

Need pics of the other machines.... cannot tease me by mentioning a Rivett 1020s with no pix mate.

 

[86turbodsl]

My lathe!!!

Much nicer looking though.

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[86turbodsl]

I've been mostly keeping my thread at PM up to date. I can post here more if anyone is interested.

I've been working on the tailstock mostly. I have it completely stripped down, and about ready to finish up and get some bondo on it. I have a question into the bearing supplier for the thrust, no word back yet. Everybody on lockdown is annoying.

 

[Roberts210]

Please keep us updated on this.

 

[RADcustom]

definitely post some pics of your progress.

 

[86turbodsl]

Ok, i decided to work on the tailstock because it was easy to see and small parts compared to the main lathe. That's a big fish to fry. I wanted to get it apart because i've been soaking things in evaporust and it's been going very well. Very clean and not rusty.
So i need to get the end bell off the tailstock. I pulled the wheel, and found out i need to spin the end bell off. There's a hole for a spanner. Of course i don't have one, so i welded up this makeshift wrench and beat it off. I might make a spanner to put it back together, i don't know.

Got it off.


There's a lot of trash and rust in there.


I ended up beating the ram out with a sledge and block of wood.



I've also been working on scraping the ways.. it's slow. But it's getting better.


This is the thrust bearing. I found out the oem is still making this bearing, but no word back from them yet. They're in new york. Who knows if they are operating.


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[86turbodsl]

Spent more time cleaning up the bed ways tonight. Made some pretty good progress i think. Scraped a TON of rust off the ways with carbide, scrubbed everything with PB and scotchbrite (don't judge, it works) and found some pretty good gouges on inner ways up by chuck. Obviously i need to get a couple of stones. Any particular ones i should be looking for?

It also seems i will need to remove the apron and that means i need to figure out how the taper attachment comes off. Bulletin 20 has not helped me much in that way. Maybe there's hidden fasteners covered by goop yet. I dunno. Anyways, here's some shots for viewing pleasure:

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Wish I still had scrapings like that. Precision ground flatstones are the best if your budget allows. $200+ though for a pair. Well worth it for folks that do a lot of machinery rebuilding it seems though. Otherwise I probably wouldn't even bother and just gently file them with the flatest life you own. Especially on the top of the vee-way where it doesn't matter.

 

[86turbodsl]

Oh don't worry, the scrapings are only left on the ends. With a bed this short, it spent a LOT of time sitting in the middle. I'm sure there's plenty of wear in the ways. But for the kind of work i do, it's not going to matter much. VERY rare i do anything that needs a thou tolerance.

 

[jabberwoki]

I`m at the same stage as you on the Rivett . jut about ready to tackle the carriage, not looking forward to it.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

It's a lot of work for sure.


@86 These fellas think fairly highly of standard Norton Stones. Idk how flat they are. https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/stone-table-375474/

 

[86turbodsl]

At least i'm not completely stupid. See my garage thread for reference. I figured out how to get the taper attachment off tonight. Scraped a lot of **** off. See pic. I should be able to get the whole casting off this weekend. It's oddly satisfying to scrape **** off and see stuff like this:

 

[jabberwoki]

Nice.....

 

[86turbodsl]

Kept scraping and got the full taper attachment off today. What a mess. See pics.

How do the roller bearings come off? Only one still moves. I think it'll need to soak for quite a while.

 

[jabberwoki]

That ol girl is gunna be so happy when you put it back together.

 

[86turbodsl]

It's really cleaning up pretty nicely actually. Better than i thought it would. I'm not even going to touch the headstock. Rust removal, paint and cleaning, and into service. I can't wait.

 

[86turbodsl]

Some recent work:

Built a ****** tank and have some of the taper attachment spooging. Also have been doing a lot of needle scaling of the less critical areas.

Then pulled the coolant pump and started cleaning out that mess of a tank. Yuck! Nothing but sludge left in there.

The spooging is going well so far. The washing soda was very old, and i can't find anybody with it in stock locally. Damn covid...

 

[DocsMachine]

On the washing soda, I was never able to find any locally, either, and just used baking soda. Worked just fine- so well that I have a hard time seeing how washing soda would have worked any better.

Doc.