86turbodsl
Well-known member
Only an issue with an electrolyte. Since this is presumably indoors, should be a non-issue.
(Another) Compressor Piping Thread
- Thread starter MAYOR28
- Start date
Only an issue with an electrolyte. Since this is presumably indoors, should be a non-issue.
HotrodHR
Well-known member
After you scrounge around for used pipe, parts, fittings, band saws and other tools, you could have gone with a simple system such as RapidAir. Their kits and parts are reasonably priced and scalable. You can add to the system as needed and easily disassemble and take it with you if you move. That said, I did not use Rapidair on my last install, but I will if I move again.
What I did when I moved to my new house with a detached shop was to recycle the copper system from the shop space I was renting. I had installed the copper myself using soldered fittings. I took the piping and laid out my the line in my new shop using Sharkbite fittings. Wasn't too bad because I only need one drop to my hose reel in the middle of the shop.
Someone had posted a diagram on this thread with drops and water bleed off points. I suggest you take a look at it for ideas and use the up over and back down for your drops with bleed off points.
https://www.rapidairproducts.com/product-category/rapidair
https://www.sharkbite.com/
What I did when I moved to my new house with a detached shop was to recycle the copper system from the shop space I was renting. I had installed the copper myself using soldered fittings. I took the piping and laid out my the line in my new shop using Sharkbite fittings. Wasn't too bad because I only need one drop to my hose reel in the middle of the shop.
Someone had posted a diagram on this thread with drops and water bleed off points. I suggest you take a look at it for ideas and use the up over and back down for your drops with bleed off points.
https://www.rapidairproducts.com/product-category/rapidair
https://www.sharkbite.com/
This was high on the list, but a lot of the installations that I have seen just don't look as polished as copper or iron pipe. I think if you spend the extra on the fast pipe (or whatever they call the ridgid sections) then that can look great. But that seemed like more money than what I will have in the iron pipe.
I guess time will tell.
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HyperPete
Well-known member
I went with something similar: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005FKYRTU/?tag=atomicindus08-20
However, I still started with black iron, as I read that these systems do not cool the air sufficiently to condense the water vapor. If I were to do it again, I would not purchase this kit. I would just use black iron for the entire run.
HyperPete
Well-known member
Agreed. Hindsight is 20/20!
HyperPete
Well-known member
Me too! (On hold, though, while I run electric in garage attic and then blow in insulation.)
I also plan to straighten out the blue 3/4" air lines.
I ran 1.25" ID vinyl tubing from the inlet port on the compressor up to near the ceiling and used vibration dampeners at the feet to reduce compressor noise, too.
I also plan to straighten out the blue 3/4" air lines.
I ran 1.25" ID vinyl tubing from the inlet port on the compressor up to near the ceiling and used vibration dampeners at the feet to reduce compressor noise, too.
tfb
Well-known member
When it comes to piping systems the fittings are what cost the most so if you can stay away from specialty fittings you're much better off price-wise.
I'm installing my air system inside my 2X6 framing so I plan on using pex with clamped brass fittings.
Just keep in mind, since you're surface mounting this pipe that you may want to use a few tees with a plug in one end, instead of a 90 ell when you change direction in case you decide to make future mods or additions to the system.
I'm installing my air system inside my 2X6 framing so I plan on using pex with clamped brass fittings.
Just keep in mind, since you're surface mounting this pipe that you may want to use a few tees with a plug in one end, instead of a 90 ell when you change direction in case you decide to make future mods or additions to the system.
HyperPete
Well-known member
sberry
Banned
PROGRESS!!
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Valve on tank BEFORE hose, union, filter and regulator.
bob15
Well-known member
Not sure if you are serious or not.......
In case you are......
Valve before union so you can turn the air off and when you break the union open and you aren't having to refill the entire air-line up again.
akdiesel
Well-known member
Copper is the best heat transfer of most used metals on the market with black pipe being the next and or aluminum next. But with that being said your tank is one of the second reasons it is used. This is your heat transfer. You want your air to be as dry as possible before it enters your piping system. If you are that **** about water vapor in your lines then you need to slope it back to your tank with drops and have a knock out train and a chiller system prior to your piping system.
I have a respectable drying system but there was one time I left my compressor turned on and my plasma cutter hose connected and it broke off. I was away for a week to find my compressor running and a mist in the shop. who knows how long it had been running.
So long story short, turn off your compressor for the night. If you have a break in your line it will simply bleed down and not call for the compressor to run.
Lots of topics and comments on this forum about these concerns.
Not sure if you are serious or not.......
In case you are......
Valve before union so you can turn the air off and when you break the union open and you aren't having to refill the entire air-line up again.
The valve in the top right of my photo is before the entire system. So I just have the regulator and filter, with the flex tube on the un-valved compressor side.
Is there a strong reason to leave the filter/regulator in the pressure loop if the compressor is disconnected?
As a side note, if I ever have to disconnect the compressor, I am doing something major anyways. I do not intend to keep the system under pressure all of the time since it is just a hobbyist shop.
bob15
Well-known member
Say your filter or regulator has a blowout, wouldn't it make sense to shut the air off between the tank and the filter/reg? If not, you will have to wait for the tank to drain down which could cause more damage to anything around the blowout. By putting a valve before the union it will allow you to shut off immediately.
I realize you say you won't ever, but you never know. The proper spot for the ball valve is between the hydraulic hose and the union.
HyperPete
Well-known member
I will likely just flip the valve by the compressor each night.
Copper may have the best heat transfer, but there is more room for error when sweating fittings that could result in failures. It's also quite expensive.
My line is tilted forward toward the down leg which terminates in a drain valve.
I am far from "****" about moisture in the lines. I am, however, being diligent and reasonable about simple and inexpensive solutions to a common problem that reduces tool life and causes problems with paint.
As with all of my posts, this is personal opinion only. YMMV.
tfb
Well-known member
Here's a little info about ball valves to be aware of. In certain situations and applications, they may not be the best valve to use.
It is more an issue when the medium is water instead of air, but it could apply to air systems because some garages in northern climates may see the temperatures below freezing.
Ball valves in the closed position, trap the medium inside the ball with little room for expansion, if its installed on a water line which freezes, the valve body will split open, or, in come cases expand just enough to cause a permanent leak out the body joint or packing gland.
This would only affect air systems if a ball valve is installed on a drip leg and has a threaded plug in the bottom, and that valve is left in the open position with the plug installed and then closed, thereby trapping the condensate.
Bottom line, if you have concerns about drip leg drains being accidentally opened and you use threaded plugs in them, then it's probably a good idea to open them after you install the plug. That way if the leg collects some condensate and freezes it will just expand up the pipe.
It is more an issue when the medium is water instead of air, but it could apply to air systems because some garages in northern climates may see the temperatures below freezing.
Ball valves in the closed position, trap the medium inside the ball with little room for expansion, if its installed on a water line which freezes, the valve body will split open, or, in come cases expand just enough to cause a permanent leak out the body joint or packing gland.
This would only affect air systems if a ball valve is installed on a drip leg and has a threaded plug in the bottom, and that valve is left in the open position with the plug installed and then closed, thereby trapping the condensate.
Bottom line, if you have concerns about drip leg drains being accidentally opened and you use threaded plugs in them, then it's probably a good idea to open them after you install the plug. That way if the leg collects some condensate and freezes it will just expand up the pipe.
HyperPete
Well-known member
@tfb - I had never thought about that. For an air line, and a drip leg, wouldn't draining the leg before closing the valve prevent this from occurring? I can't think of a scenario where I would close it while it was filled with water in this situation, but it's both interesting and useful information for me. Thank you!
exranger06
Well-known member
I'm also in the middle of plumbing my compressor. I just bought a bunch of pipe, fittings, and valves at Home Depot this morning. I hope to make some significant progress tomorrow. I bought my compressor about 3 years ago and haven't used it once because I never finished hooking it up! Lack of free time and other projects kept getting in the way. But I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel and I'm really excited about finishing it.
I'm using Type L copper, 3/4" for the main lines and 1/2" service drops.
I'm using Type L copper, 3/4" for the main lines and 1/2" service drops.
sberry
Banned
Best is on the tank to act as a disconnect for the whole system. Valve shuts off everything beyond the tank.
Note, the valve on the hard line, any unions and rubber on the downstream side. You can turn the valve off and isolate or disconnect anything on the secondary side.
Ok,,, pic 1 is the shut off and its on a regulated line which you cant see complete but comes from a reg in pic 3 where you can see the hi pressure side, union after valve. Pic 2 is from the shut off in pic 1, goes to an equipment reel and second reel with second regulator for paint.
Pic 4, hi pressure, valve on the hard pipe to a fil/reg which goes to a hose reel which the main use is a port in the wall for outside use on the apron.
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sberry
Banned
1st one has been replumbed a little, feeds that reel and plasma. Reel turns and reaches this apron for outside in good weather. Pic 2, the little chunk of blue could be removed. One of the guys put it there for a blow gun doing some fussy work, I never use it but the orange goes to a secondary, feeds the paint booth, the reel and 2 fixxed whips for tools at the hoist.
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sberry
Banned
Isolation valves at and between every vessel, can take either comp out, still have air. Green 3 hp is the master, the breaker is off to the blue, all tanks tied together, plumbed to the re ever then to disibution manifold. I was going to get an updated pic of number 1 above with some refinement in a remodel and repair.
Its fed from a 1/2 circuit about 30 ft long at hi pressure, goes thru 3/8 filer reg actually plumbed a little separate in this location.
Its fed from a 1/2 circuit about 30 ft long at hi pressure, goes thru 3/8 filer reg actually plumbed a little separate in this location.
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sberry
Banned
I do some from my pc and some phone so it's easy to do new posts vs continuing random thoughts. Pic 3 is the shut off and drip leg. If I was doing this again would change the design just a little but its irrelevant to its purpose.
The shut off is just below the little shim board inline. The other valve is an obsolesced piece I don't need line connected anymore. You can see the muffler clamp I put on as a bottle gard for the filter. I would have made another turn overhead and dropped right on it but the pipe I found worked out as it was at the moment. Right after I did it realized there was a little easier way. Was a design and build moment.
Also in pic 2 can see the qd goes to the hose reel which could actually be plumbed pre regulator, not needed in normal use,,, but connector goes to the reel and another T added a valve and connector to plug plasma in.
I normally use as few as possible but they are not losses in this. The reel or plasma can be disconnected for service. The plasma was being funny and had a small leak, I was busy,, said, **** will screw a valve to it. Was an easy fix.
Busy little spot, couple argon hoses, air, a stick weld lead, something else I forget.
The shut off is just below the little shim board inline. The other valve is an obsolesced piece I don't need line connected anymore. You can see the muffler clamp I put on as a bottle gard for the filter. I would have made another turn overhead and dropped right on it but the pipe I found worked out as it was at the moment. Right after I did it realized there was a little easier way. Was a design and build moment.
Also in pic 2 can see the qd goes to the hose reel which could actually be plumbed pre regulator, not needed in normal use,,, but connector goes to the reel and another T added a valve and connector to plug plasma in.
I normally use as few as possible but they are not losses in this. The reel or plasma can be disconnected for service. The plasma was being funny and had a small leak, I was busy,, said, **** will screw a valve to it. Was an easy fix.
Busy little spot, couple argon hoses, air, a stick weld lead, something else I forget.
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bob15
Well-known member
Valid potential issue.
You can also buy ball valves with waste valves on them or even NPT plugs on them for draining the valves themselves.
Or after you drain the water out, open the system and let air pressure push the remaining droplets of water out of the drip leg and valve. Potential issue avoided.
HyperPete
Well-known member
When I was purchasing my supplies, these were all that Lowes had in stock, so that is what I ended up with.
I think that it goes without saying that the waste valve should point down when installed!
sberry
Banned
Any modification from the factory drain means you need to protect it from freezing. Some older ones had a petcock in the bottom but also had a dip tube type with a valve up top and this was for winter. When ever it thawed you could drain it. There was no sump to freeze to bust, water simply froze in it.
If it ran enough to thaw could drain, if it didn't could in the spring when they were used in the winter.
If it ran enough to thaw could drain, if it didn't could in the spring when they were used in the winter.
jack stand
Well-known member
I just ran some air lines and was shocked to see copper was less expensive than black pipe.
tfb
Well-known member
You're right it would be rare... it would occur if the valve was closed and plugged and someone opened the valve monumentally and allowed a leg of condensate to fill the valve, then closed it again. Maybe a kid playing around, probably unlikely, but it has happened.
HyperPete
Well-known member
No kids here, well, except for me! 
Still, it's great info to have, and I appreciate you sharing it.
I guess that depends upon what copper pipe you use, and what is available. BTW, I understand that 50/50 solder is only good up to 150 PSI. You need to use 95/5 for higher pressure applications, according to what I read.
This is from Lowes:
Still, it's great info to have, and I appreciate you sharing it.
I guess that depends upon what copper pipe you use, and what is available. BTW, I understand that 50/50 solder is only good up to 150 PSI. You need to use 95/5 for higher pressure applications, according to what I read.
This is from Lowes:
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So I have finally acquired all of the bits to build up my distribution system. But I am really struggling to cut the threads in the black iron pipe. Seems like no matter what I do, some of the threads shear off during cutting. Even if I go 1/2 a turn at a time and break the chips.
Anybody have some tutorials out there on manually cutting threads? The dies I have look good (pics later), and I am lubricating the cut (with ATF). Do I need specific Thread Cutting Lube?
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Anybody have some tutorials out there on manually cutting threads? The dies I have look good (pics later), and I am lubricating the cut (with ATF). Do I need specific Thread Cutting Lube?
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matt_i
Well-known member
I'd try the dark cutting oil first.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1-gal-Dark-Threading-Oil-70830/205549071
or its more expensive clear cousin
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-...ERCH=REC-_-pipsem-_-205549071-_-202826988-_-N
I can't speak to the effectiveness of ATF as a threadcutting lube, never have tried it.
You might do better with an -EP oil as would be used in a rear axle for steel-on-steel for a super cheap trial.
Dies are harder to gauge in "sharpness". In prime shape hey should feel like they would cut you if you moved too quickly.
Even then there is a some junky material being passed off as Sch 40 pipes.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1-gal-Dark-Threading-Oil-70830/205549071
or its more expensive clear cousin
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-...ERCH=REC-_-pipsem-_-205549071-_-202826988-_-N
I can't speak to the effectiveness of ATF as a threadcutting lube, never have tried it.
You might do better with an -EP oil as would be used in a rear axle for steel-on-steel for a super cheap trial.
Dies are harder to gauge in "sharpness". In prime shape hey should feel like they would cut you if you moved too quickly.
Even then there is a some junky material being passed off as Sch 40 pipes.
csp
Well-known member
PROGRESS!!
If you had purchased a hydraulic line with a swivel fitting you wouldn't need that union. Things like this are how you eliminate unnecessary fittings (potential leak points).
sberry
Banned
What is the valve in the pic? It should be placed on the hard line ahead of the hose,,, to shut and disconnect all the equipment after. A hyd swivel could be used, not a big deal either way but the valve is useless/in the wrong spot.
Note where its at here, hard line on the manifold or at the tank on the comp.
Also,,, the worry about the valve freezing in this isn't a concern. If there is freezing water in the sump leading up to it then there is. This is why they come from the factory the way they do, some water freezing in the bottom of the tank isn't a concern. It can be drained when it thaws. Some even had a drop tube in addition to the petcock for this.
Note where its at here, hard line on the manifold or at the tank on the comp.
Also,,, the worry about the valve freezing in this isn't a concern. If there is freezing water in the sump leading up to it then there is. This is why they come from the factory the way they do, some water freezing in the bottom of the tank isn't a concern. It can be drained when it thaws. Some even had a drop tube in addition to the petcock for this.
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As sberry said hydraulic line is way overkill but works just fine and yes they are standard npt just make sure you have a swiveling fitting in at least one end other wise assembly and disassembly can become quite the task
So, I got some hydraulic lines made today. Only place I know of nearby is the Napa Auto, I got a 3/4" NPT (straight ends, one swivel) by 12" and one 1/2" (straight ends, one swivel) by 18" and I was a little blown away by the cost. Total for both: $100.73!!
Does that seem unreasonable to anyone?
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Does that seem unreasonable to anyone?
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