Any asphalt driveway experts in here?

[Gnfantic]

Hey guys, trying to get price quotes from locals on a driveway going to my soon to be built de-ttached garage. One guy was telling me he puts down 6" of RCA and tampers it, then lets it sit for a month. He then puts down 2" of "state" grade asphalt. 2" seems very thin to me or am I wrong? Also is there such a grade called "state? He says its what the DOT uses on the highways here. If any LONG ISLAND members here know a of a good driveway guy please PM me!

 

[fang123]

Hey guys, trying to get price quotes from locals on a driveway going to my soon to be built de-ttached garage. One guy was telling me he puts down 6" of RCA and tampers it, then lets it sit for a month. He then puts down 2" of "state" grade asphalt. 2" seems very thin to me or am I wrong? Also is there such a grade called "state? He says its what the DOT uses on the highways here. If any LONG ISLAND members here know a of a good driveway guy please PM me!

I've worked for a highway/commercial/residential paving contractor for 30 years. We have done parking lots with 2" or asphalt for customers. Its for a price point. No way in hell would I ever use only 2" of asphalt on my own driveway, especially in an area where the ground freezes/thaws. The "state" grade is just the mix design from the asphalt plant that is approved by the states DOT. They all do that. That is nothing more than his marketing. Sounds to me like he is only using a "top" material without any "base" or "binder" under it. 2" of a "top" will likely rut in time. Personally I would do nothing less than a 2" base coarse lift and a 1-1/2" top lift, but I'm spending your money here too.
I'm not trying to talk bad on the contractor, his sub-base plan sounds ok. But I know I would personally want to go a different route on the asphalt, but it will cost more.

 

[rzims]

Not an expert but I do manage a lot of paving projects here at work. A 6" base of RCA or Baserock is a good start. If we're doing walking paths it's 4" paving over 4" base - for parking lots and roadways we do 4" paving over 6" base....
The key to making it last is maintenance. We keep our paved areas sealed, fix cracks and holes as soon as we notice them and generally just try to keep the areas from becoming too bad before repairs.

 

[Gnfantic]

Thanks guys, going to look for someone else. I figured 2 inches was way to thin.

 

[ForceFed70]

2" is what 95% of driveways are paved in. It's not "too thin" but I'd also be looking for more.

Why look for someone else? Why not just ask for a quote that includes 3" of top coat?

 

[Gnfantic]

I will

 

[fang123]

2" is what 95% of driveways are paved in. It's not "too thin" but I'd also be looking for more.

Why look for someone else? Why not just ask for a quote that includes 3" of top coat?

3" of top coat is too thick. It will rut and crack way too soon. Top coat is to seal the base course. The strength is in the base course or binder course not in the top. Top is to seal out water and for finish (looks). If I were to start over on a unpaved driveway I personally would do 3" of binder (19mm) and 1-1/2" of top. Most asphalt plants in the US are also putting at least 10% recycled material in their mix now (at least DOT certified plants)

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,..... I've been buildin' blacktop roads, parkin' lots, 'n driveways up here in far northern NY with 26 seasons behind me,.......

The "State" mix is what the State uses on hy-ways, but isn't the same topcoat used on some driveways,.....

Up here in Jeff Co. We get 3 basic choices of mix,......
Type 3 Binder, the stones can be as big as yer thumb, the entire thumb,.....

Type 6 top, aka: State mix, the stones are as big as yer thumb nail, maybe the 1st joint of yer thumb,.....

Type 7 top, the stones are no bigger than the nail on yer pinky finger, or smaller,.....

Of course there's variations of these mixes, from type 1 base with stones the size of yer fist, to tennis court mix, which is sand, 'n dust,....

For "Rich folks", We'll put down 3" of type 3 binder, then an inch of type 7 top,......

For the rest of Us, We put in type 6 mix, 2" is standard, 3" can be done, but is rare,....

Parkin' lots, 'n roads usually get atleast 3" of binder, then capped with an inch or two of type 6,.....

The "Strength" of asphalt is like other concrete, the bigger the stones, the stronger the mix,.....

The 6" base, I feel is minimum,.... 8" to a foot is where I like to be,......
Add a layer of fabric under it, if it's a "Soft" spot,.....
Proper drainage of the dig-out, or box-out, as well as the stone, 'n asphalt is critical,.....

 

[Cheepbeer]

I’ve paved many driveways, highways and parking lots. Generally on a good stone base, 3 inches is the norm. 11/2in each lift. He’s specing state mix ‘cause he’s buying the asphalt and that’s generally what they’re making.

 

[mz44]

Letting the stone sit for a month is a really good idea. It will let rain and traffic help pack the fines down in the stones and let it get hard. 2" of asphalt will work but is not ideal. You want 2 1/2"- 3" of a base (25mm) or binder (19mm) material with 1"- 1 1/2" of top (wearing) course. I would do 2 1/2" of 19mm binder and 1 1/2" of top.
The state mix is the mix design and is held to higher standards. It may have different oils in it. Unless he is going to take loose samples and cores and have them tested, anything the plant is making will be good enough for your driveway.

 

[smalltown]

Interesting thread for me as I would like to have a my driveway paved, and don't know anything about what constitutes a good job. Trying to educate myself.

I'm in an area where the frost goes down 4 feet, and this time of year the parking area, and driveway become a mud zone. Will my driveway need to be dug out to a deeper depth than someone in a warmer climate ?
I am most concerned with spring and summer fuel delivery trucks etc. causing ruts in the asphalt.

P.S. Am I wrong in reading that many driveways only have ~2" of asphalt on top of ~3" of base material. My gut tells me that would just squash in the spring around here?

 

[volleyball]

Being on the Island I assume all sand. Is there pitch? I agree with letting the stone sit, especially if the ground has been dug in the last 5 years. If it is undisturbed ground and they are skimming it will likely be stable, having them tamp the ground even better.
Sounds like the estimate guy knows what he is doing. He should be able to give references of local jobs that he did years ago to prove his skill.
If you leave enough room to do a future top coat then that will allow you to upgrade if you want and can afford. Will mean you won't have to do a tearout.
The experts here gave some great advice

 

[Bondo]

Interesting thread for me as I would like to have a my driveway paved, and don't know anything about what constitutes a good job. Trying to educate myself.

I'm in an area where the frost goes down 4 feet, and this time of year the parking area, and driveway become a mud zone. Will my driveway need to be dug out to a deeper depth than someone in a warmer climate ?
I am most concerned with spring and summer fuel delivery trucks etc. causing ruts in the asphalt.

P.S. Am I wrong in reading that many driveways only have ~2" of asphalt on top of ~3" of base material. My gut tells me that would just squash in the spring around here?

Ayuh,...... Ideally, the box-out should be 12" to 15" deep, 'n self-draining,.....

In the box-out, I suggest a layer of geo-fabric, then a lift of 4" minus crusher-run stone, topped by a layer of 2" minus crusher-run stone, topped by a layer of 3/4" minus crusher-run stone, toppin' out at 2" or 3" below finish grade,....
The asphalt lift will bring you to finish grade,....

When roller compacted at each lift, waiting for settlement is unnecessary,.....

If you weren't seein' heavy trucks, you could get by with 8" to 10" of base stone,....

 

[Gnfantic]

After he lays the 6" of RCA he will tamper it down and let it sit for one month. I need to figure out draining , I wanted to do a drain system but he says that would be another $2000. It recommends pitching the driveway towards one side and have the cobble stone same height as driveway so water goes onto lawn. What worries me is looks, I always seen driveway borders above the asphault

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

The abbreviation "RCA" is "roller compacted asphalt" correct? So is that laid down as a hot mix, or is it crushed and ground cold, recycled, asphalt. Like millings.





.

 

[Gnfantic]

It is crushed stone mixed with dirt. It has many names to it, alot of people call it RCA. it is cold obviously.

 

[mikester]

RCA on Long Island stands for Recycled Concrete Aggregate. Theres a few different grades. Some better than others. Some have lots of "other" fillers mixed in. Red brick is one them. Some pavers use a mix that has cement added so after a little rain its hard as a rock.
To be honest I think its a crappy base. Back in the day most companies used large blue stone but since its not from LI and had to be trucked in from places like PA nobody really uses it these days. I looked into having my driveway replaced a few years ago. I called a local paver. He flat out told me the new asphalt isnt the same as it was when the original driveway was done in 1982. Ingredients arent as good. I was told that if I wanted to get longer than 10 years out of it he would do 2 lifts of 2" on top of the better RCA base. My driveways 30' wide in front of my garage. Tearing the old one up, the 2 lifts done over a couple of months would run close to $11K. Thats with no border. Needless to say I didnt do it. I'll let the next guy worry about it. As far as the "state mix" Im not sure thats a good thing. Have you noticed the roads on LI ? They have potholes everywhere !!! They just paved Montauk Hwy out east all the way to Quogue. Whats in the mix that you can pave one lane, move over to do the middle and have traffic driving over the fresh asphalt ?

 

[Gnfantic]

Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about. My neighbors driveway was done 2 years ago and is falling apart. I cant afford concrete. We are talking about 20ft wide by 100ft long.

 

[mikester]

BTW, be aware of your local codes. Not sure what town youre from but Brookhaven has been fining people for certain driveway jobs. I was told you need a permit to do a new driveway but I dont know if thats for every job

 

[Gnfantic]

Brookhaven is a nightmare with permits. I dont live there. Town I live in knows whats going on and I have all permits for the garage. I aint playing with the town. They can force you to tear things down , not worth the risk!

 

[mikester]

Brookhaven is a nightmare with permits. I dont live there. Town I live in knows whats going on and I have all permits for the garage. I aint playing with the town. They can force you to tear things down , not worth the risk!

I know a few paving companies out east but I dont think they travel up west these days.
Hope you get a good job !

 

[Gnfantic]

I am suffolk county if that helps

 

[volleyball]

If your neighbors is falling apart, ask how it was done. How much base, what drainage and such. Did they just take the low bid. Many do and get what they paid for.
NY seems to love recycling road materials. I don't think it is bad. Just make sure there is enough asphalt to bind the blacktop.
20 by 100 is a lot of non permeable surface so you don't want to border it in unless you like having a pond. or ice rink. Is there a lot of permeable surface to take the additional water? If not you are going to need a way to get rid of it.

 

[steveo1o9]

Ayuh,..... I've been buildin' blacktop roads, parkin' lots, 'n driveways up here in far northern NY with 26 seasons behind me,.......

The "State" mix is what the State uses on hy-ways, but isn't the same topcoat used on some driveways,.....

Up here in Jeff Co. We get 3 basic choices of mix,......
Type 3 Binder, the stones can be as big as yer thumb, the entire thumb,.....

Type 6 top, aka: State mix, the stones are as big as yer thumb nail, maybe the 1st joint of yer thumb,.....

Type 7 top, the stones are no bigger than the nail on yer pinky finger, or smaller,.....

Of course there's variations of these mixes, from type 1 base with stones the size of yer fist, to tennis court mix, which is sand, 'n dust,....

For "Rich folks", We'll put down 3" of type 3 binder, then an inch of type 7 top,......

For the rest of Us, We put in type 6 mix, 2" is standard, 3" can be done, but is rare,....

Parkin' lots, 'n roads usually get atleast 3" of binder, then capped with an inch or two of type 6,.....

The "Strength" of asphalt is like other concrete, the bigger the stones, the stronger the mix,.....

The 6" base, I feel is minimum,.... 8" to a foot is where I like to be,......
Add a layer of fabric under it, if it's a "Soft" spot,.....
Proper drainage of the dig-out, or box-out, as well as the stone, 'n asphalt is critical,.....

^This sounds about right to me .

As said "state" is just a mix approved to be used by the DOT. There are many different types of state approved asphalts as he explained above all with their own intended uses. So defiantly ask the contractor some more questions because "state" is not a specific mix. As with anything that is being built the subbase is the important step, and make sure is it compacted properly. To me it sounds like he plans on letting mother nature compact it by letting it sit for a month, that is not something I have seen before .. What contractor wants to mobilize twice for a driveway, that to me is the problem.

 

[Gnfantic]

^This sounds about right to me .

As said "state" is just a mix approved to be used by the DOT. There are many different types of state approved asphalts as he explained above all with their own intended uses. So defiantly ask the contractor some more questions because "state" is not a specific mix. As with anything that is being built the subbase is the important step, and make sure is it compacted properly. To me it sounds like he plans on letting mother nature compact it by letting it sit for a month, that is not something I have seen before .. What contractor wants to mobilize twice for a driveway, that to me is the problem.

He has a tamper machine for the rca but uses roller only for asphault

 

[Bondo]

He has a tamper machine for the rca but uses roller only for asphault

Ayuh,..... We use a plate tamper, or walk-behind vibratory roller, Only where the 48" double-drum 3 to 5 ton roller won't fit,......

All of our base is Pounded into place, not just allowed to settle, which could/ would take up to a year, not just a month,......

Btw,.... Thank you for the vote of confidence Steve,.....

 

[mgbbob]

What you should remember is asphalt is flexible paving. It is only as good as what is underneath it. Spend you money on good base. I am not familiar with you soil conditions or you freeze thaw issues. 2" is a good starting point but there isn't much there. You get no bridging effect to you base material. Once it opens up it will fall apart quickly. The earlier post on geo textile fabrics is a good solution. We in the midwest have found on streets that a good Geofabric and a foot of clean rock makes a dandy base. We have a lot of clay and things move around a lot. Keeping the sub grade drained really helps. Water is your enemy. Good luck.

 

[Two Speed]

To pick the brain of the pros in this thread,

What kind of asphalt prep/base and thickness would you recommend for a driveway that has two vehicles parked on it practically 24/7 to avoid the eventual divots/ruts that develop where I park?

Basic details: Freeze/thaw region, sloped driveway with a flatter section by the garage where things get parked. Two vehicles wide. Vehicles parked side by side (due to the slope). Want to avoid concrete due to property tax hit. Plan on staying here long term, so getting something more durable to standing point loads would be nice as there will be no culling of vehicles. Doable with asphalt, or concrete the only long term solution?

 

[neverdone]

There’s no way to avoid depressions in asphalt where concentrated loads exist for a long time. Bituminous pavement is flexible and will move. If you don’t want the dips, you need to install concrete. That’s why you see concrete strips where the tractor trailer landing gear sits at warehouses.

 

[58Yeoman]

QUOTE: Want to avoid concrete due to property tax hit. UNQUOTE.

Has anyone ever dyed concrete black? Asphalt is great in the winter, as a small patch catches the 'heat' and immediately starts to melt the whole driveway.

 

[NorDel Garage]

Great topic, as I am doing my asphalt driveway this year. Is there a better time to do the work ie. hot July day vs. cooler spring or fall ?

 

[neverdone]

You can get colored concrete but it costs more because of having to wash the plant and trucks out after the load is run. Look up concrete pigment

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

QUOTE: Want to avoid concrete due to property tax hit. UNQUOTE.

Has anyone ever dyed concrete black? Asphalt is great in the winter, as a small patch catches the 'heat' and immediately starts to melt the whole driveway.

It would turn grey or charcoal in no time just like black mortar


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[machsnell]

To pick the brain of the pros in this thread,

What kind of asphalt prep/base and thickness would you recommend for a driveway that has two vehicles parked on it practically 24/7 to avoid the eventual divots/ruts that develop where I park?

Basic details: Freeze/thaw region, sloped driveway with a flatter section by the garage where things get parked. Two vehicles wide. Vehicles parked side by side (due to the slope). Want to avoid concrete due to property tax hit. Plan on staying here long term, so getting something more durable to standing point loads would be nice as there will be no culling of vehicles. Doable with asphalt, or concrete the only long term solution?

To clear up a few things. It's easy to get carried away in installing a driveway.

Much of what has been suggested is good advice.

Particularly that "the asphalt is only as good as what's under it".

Put money in good solid base material. Whether its using a bridge material as in large rock (#3s) or just a thicker base of 21a (crusher run).

So hot mix asphalt (HMA) standard mixes are 25mm 19mm and 9.5mm. Logically the 25mm mix is the largest and is considered base asphalt. 19mm is intermediate base and 9.5 is surface mix.

In my area you can get ma y different vdot "approved" mix designs. Every plant puts out a different surface mix (9.5).

Driveway guys like the plants that put put a sandier mix because they typically have smaller crews and it is easier to rake and blends in more smoothly with a little driveway size vibratory roller. These mixes arent as sturdy over time and show shadows from screed extensions and wheel turns because they have a lot of sand. When started out we use to love this type of asphalt and unknowing customers did also because it looks so smooth when finished. This type of asphalt will be more apt to rut or push in the hot weather. *

Even though the sandy driveway mix plant will technically say it is a SM9.5A DOT approved mix they arent really providing asphalt to the bigger state jobs with that mix.

The "state" mix or "superpave" mix is a tougher mix with more rock and less sand and up to 28% RAP (recycled asphalt product) or processed millings. The RAP will effectively raise the binder (liquid asphalt) grade from a pg 64-22 to a pg 70-22. 70-22 binder is stiffer (required on many virgin states mixes) and harder to work. More 9.5 mm rock and less fines create a mix that is rougher looking but actually a much better mix if installed properly.

What does this mean? You want a stiffer mix that is a superpave design. Find out which plant does the state work and has the most of the schedule work. They will usually be running a good mix.

The problem is lots of little driveway companies cant lay the superpave mixes on driveways well because it's a tougher mix to install and they all try to save on material and you can lay 3/4" of a sandy mix no problem but a superpave mix wont lay well less than 1.25-1.5".

Bottom line for OP is 6" of stone isnt bad for a driveway. 2" of surface asphalt can be fine. I have milled up 20 plus year old roads that had little cracking and were just off extremely busy routes in the DC area. I was shocked that was all the asphalt that was there. So obviously lots of asphalt wasnt completely necessary.

I would suggest 2" of 19mm intermediate base and 1.5 inches of 9.5 surface mix. You get some strength out of the 19mm and you have a wearing course. 6, 2, 1.5 is pretty decent section for a driveway.

As far as anyone suggesting to leave the stone for a month and compacting the driveway with a tamper. I would run from that small guy. Nobody in theor right mind would want to come back to a driveway twice. Many other factors also at play in this equation also.

A 3 to 5 ton (44 to 50" drum) should be used on the stone and a 1.5 to 3 ton (36" ish drum) is generally good on asphalt for a driveway.

All of this in in general terms. Someone will chime in that a plate tamper will get stone just as tight as a 3 to 5 ton roller blah blah blah.

Many ways to skin a cat but this is generally the way this is done optimally on a professional level.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[mike93lx]

Great thread. I'm planning a new driveway in the next few years, so this is really helpful

 

[banging away]

Any special consideration for the occasional very heavy vehicle.
How about 1 or 2 times a year with a 8 ton motor home?
Or 1 or 2 times a year for a 4 ton boat on a 5 ton trailer?

 

[dw1]

We finished building a house late last fall, we worked on the re-grading yesterday and hope to finish grade in the next week or two if it stays dry. I just measured up my gravel driveway, I need right at 5200 sq ft of asphalt (concrete is probably out of the budget) is asphalt using priced per sq ft?

my drive is level at the top (house and barn area) but heads downhill to the street, about a 10' drop in elevation

 

[Bondo]

is asphalt using priced per sq ft?

Ayuh,.... It's priced out by the local conditions of each different job, which can be converted to a per sq.ft. price, after the fact,....

So short answer is,........... Nope,.....

 

[Two Speed]

Thanks for the great info! Good to know what a good baseline to compare quotes/suggestions with. And also to know what not to ask for (ie:thicker layer).

Sounds like the time to do a driveway may be the same time that your street is redone due to a road grade mix is used vs the finer easier spread material, and no doubt, the fact that all the big equipment is already on site is a plus to ensure proper compaction. (that was done here 10 years ago and they went door to door to see who wanted a driveway redone. Of course at the time my driveway was still in decent shape).

 

[dw1]

Ayuh,.... It's priced out by the local conditions of each different job, which can be converted to a per sq.ft. price, after the fact,....

So short answer is,........... Nope,.....

Yeah, my guesstimation for concrete was well over $30K to do all that I want to do. I'll get my grading done and see if I can get an estimate or three.
Thanks