anyone ever cheat on adding garage area?

[GearHead_1]

Zoning Laws ****!!

That depends entirely on which side of the fence you live and I've been on both sides. Building a home or developing property is an eye opening experience. If you think you can do what you please on the property you own you will most likely be very disappointed

 

[rdnkjeeper]

What you do is this.....start collecting junk vehicles! If they get tired of see all the stuff in your yard they may approve it for ya!

 

[krooser]

I originally had an old 20x20 garage on my lot.

I wanted to build my shop 36X50 but my lot is odd sized and they only take the "buildable" (66' deep") section of my lot into account in figuring square footage for an outbuilding. In this case I would be allowed 1200 sq. ft.

On the south side of my property was a street, Raber Street, that was only two blocks long and the part adjacent to my lot was very narrow with a gravel surface.

I did a little research and found out that the city was going to have to spend some $$$ improving the grade on Raber St and pave it in order for the street to meet city standards.

I got my three neighbors, who also have property along Raber St., to join me in pettioning the city to abandon the street and cede the property to the four property owners. The city agreed to avoid having to pave the street.

We hired an attorney to look after our interests...he cost $600.00. After the papers were drawn up, and the zoning commission approved it, I wound up with about 33 extra feet of property.

That small amount of additional land allowed me to build my shop at 1500 sq. ft. instead of 1200.

Regarding extra storage, I have given a long look at at ocean containers as a form of extra storage. I would have to raise my fence to 8' to block the view from the street. And I would challenge the city if they would give me trouble about having a temporary storage building on my property.

Don't forget that if you build a non-conforming building the local officials can condemn it and have it torn dorn...sounds like an expensive court battle to me.

 

[drbill]

I went thru the same thing with the zoning board. I got screwed when they counted my porch, they said it was because the roof of the house covers it. The thing that pissed me off was they said it was O.K. to put up a 36 square foot shed along with the garage being at the square foot limit. I even asked them if I wouldn't put up a shed would they allow the bigger garage. NO NO NO So now I have a small shed.
One thing that came out of the meeting was that I could go higher, which I did.

 

[tech]

50 years ago this would never had happend. its are fault for letting it get this way.

 

[krooser]

Anything with a roof is counted in the square footage in my city..

And we DID let it happen...

 

[danski0224]

I can see both views.

I want a big shop, and there is enough left over in my lot coverage ratios to build something that will work. However, in doing so, I will bring down my property values because the view from the kitchen window will be garage. Doesn't bother me, but unless I sell to someone looking for a shop space, resale suffers.

My neighbors, on the other hand, probably wouldn't like to look at it, either.

I make every effort to keep noise generation to a minimum- or at least during 9 to 5. I know I wouldn't want to listen to pounding, grinding or air tools much earlier or past say 7pm. There are probably people that could care less and do what they want when they want.

 

[shopking68]

The city was all over me when I was building mine last summer. They dont want you doing anything unless they know about it, luckily my inspector was pretty cool so it wasnt too bad. And my neighbors dont mind either, they all wanna come over. My building and electrical permit was $184, stupid city

 

[HAULNSS]

I think I forgot to mention to the County that I was installing a toilet and shower. Friends had told me that they may make me install a complete new household septic system, as I had 'added' to the existing capacity. (It is only a one bath home rght now, the second isn't finished)

Nice Impala, Shopking!

Randy

 

[shopking68]

Hey thanks, you get on the Impala SS forum don't you?
www.impalassforum.com

 

[HAULNSS]

Hey thanks, you get on the Impala SS forum don't you?
www.impalassforum.com

Member #175, since 8/22/00 !

*Secret Impala Code* BBHP #31 *Secret Impala Code*



Randy

 

[DynoDave]

Garager,

I can understand what you are thinking. I'm boxed in on what I can do too, by the law, not the property. But I have a good friend who did what he wanted, rather than what was allowed. His outcome wasn't too bad, all things considered, but he spent thousands on lawyers, and still had to substantially rework what he had done once he got caught. I don't even have his kind of luck, so I plan on staying within the law.

The suggestion above about labeling part of it as living space is what he had to do in the end, and I would recommend going that route if you can.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The suggestion above about labeling part of it as living space is what he had to do in the end, and I would recommend going that route if you can.

Again, everywhere is different. The County I'm in has rules that forbid secondary detached dwellings, so that would rule out living space in a detached garage (ie. mother-in-law suite) or anything like that.

Charles

 

[z28toz06]

Most building codes have a formula as JVO said. The footprint, or total square footage of the buildings can only use so much of a percentage of the property.

You really need to go and get a copy of the regulations so you can see for your self what their game is. Then when you think you know what you are talking about ask a lawyers advice. Find a lawyer that has been successful getting some one else's denied building application approved.

I think he was also right-on about the "permanent" structure part also. When you pour a permanent foundation for a building 2 things happen. 1) They can tell you whether or not you can do it and 2) they tax you on it. As soon as you pour footings you are screwed, tax and regulation wise. I just jumped through many hoops to get my garage started. (see thread)

http://www.garagejunkies.net/showthread.php?t=1725

They did not want to give me a variance, but I had an intelligent response for all of their concerns and issues, some of which should never have been applied to my situation. Offsets from road, etc.

When I built a 12X16 shed on my property, I found out as long as I didn't use concrete footings, it was a moveable structure, i.e. "temporary" and I could put the damn thing any where I wanted to. It's been there for 18 years!

When you apply for a variance there is usually a public notice, and your neighbors have a chance to support or complain about it. Did any of that take place?

I don't see why you couldn't build dog house type dormers off the main building and store items in there, as long as you use bluestone or patio blocks as the floor, which would be (re)movable. If you are thinking about being able to enter those storage areas from the building side, you better make sure you header it off before you do it. (if it's a load bearing wall) I would incorporate any ingress/egress points into the building where those dormers may be in the future, when I submitted my plans. Just tell them you may want several additional ways in and out of the building, but you haven't decided where they will be yet. There is a loop hole in everything, That is how politicians have been operating for years, play their game. The wording is usually ambiguous in some way, shape or form, exploit it, and have fun while you're doing it!!

 

[johnf]

Just do it. A buddy of mine built a garage on his house, got it finished months before inspectors noticed. When they asked when the garage was built, he said when the house was built. He got by with it.

 

[Spencer Was Here]

Just do it. A buddy of mine built a garage on his house, got it finished months before inspectors noticed. When they asked when the garage was built, he said when the house was built. He got by with it.

I've read more than once that towns and cities are comparing new and old satellite images to catch people building without permits. I have never seen any proof of this, but as many times as I have read it lately I bet some towns will start to do it if they wern't already.

Spence

 

[johnf]

They might do that now. This was several years ago, before satellite photos came into use.

 

[tom.jelly]

When I lived in chicago I decided to make a big workshop out of my 1.5 car garage. they would only allow 450 sq ft and 14' overall height. I submitted plans for a 13'11" hi box w/ parapet wall and full coverage roof deck. and they told me I needed a freaking FIRE ESCAPE, oh, and also since I had a sliding door on the yard side I had to ADD a swinging door. Not wanting to add ANOTHER opening to the building I said OK, I'll just put the swinging door IN the sliding door. To my complete disbelief, the permit guy said" well, when the sliding door is open, you won't be able to open or get out of the swing door"

I said OK, whatever you want, took my permit, built the garage the way I wanted and left the permit in my window until I sold the house 2 years later. If anyone would have given me a hassle, I would have said"still working on it" nobody ever did

idiots

moved to GA now I have 2400 sq ft shop & no hassles. heh....

Tom

 

[Tman]

Remember, "built to code" means, "built to the lowest accepted standard". Thank your government. Local inspectors and municipalities are hamstringed by codes and local laws.

 

[HotRodderAZ]

As far as satelite images I can confidently say that Phoenix AZ has them. I went down to the city to discuss adding a new garage. He asked my address, I gave it to him, and before my eyes I see a overhead picture of my house on his screen. He said they update the pictures once a year.
In Phoenix they go on percent of your property. Good luck on your ideas, I sure like this thread. Some very creative people here.
James

 

[The Big M]

Our local bylaws specify a maximum height, minimum distance from the property line (approx. 3 feet), maximum width based on a percentage of the lot width, and total allowable footprint area of all structures on the lot based on a percentage of the lot area (small storage sheds are exempt from this calculation). There's also an extra fee involved and a document that must be signed when building over the water and sewer lines. The document states that if you build over the lines and the city ever has to do an excavation to repair it, the homeowner foots the bill.

So the end result is a 20 x 24 with 10 foot ceilings (and storage trusses) that does not lie over the water line. Obviously more space would have been nice, but this way there's room for an extra parking space and a storage shed beside the garage, and I feel the fact that it complies with all the bylaws increases the resale value. Plus going smaller and using some of the innovative storage ideas seen on this board is cheaper, both in initial cost and future property taxes.

That being said, my neighbourhood is full of newly-built garages that are as wide as possible while still being 3 feet from the property line, even though the bylaws clearly state the maximum width is 2/3 of the lot width. So either everyone else is getting variances or just outright ignoring the rules. One house in particular has a garage that occupies most of the lot, with eaves that look to be within 2 feet of the second floor deck and an overhang that appears to be very close to the similarly-sized double garage on the adjacent lot.

Some rules are asinine, but I think there's something to be said for maintaining a safe distance between adjacent structures in case of fire. Not that I intend to complain. Just an observation.

 

[t. jones]

I don't know why you didn't just start a new thread.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46747
I agree with just about everthing you say.
Thanx Trevor

 

[autoist]

i will double up the support beams (2x4's) to support the roof ,only going to remove a few any way, remove just enough to get tool chest's in.
and then build the 'lean to' just like a regular wall only extended out 3 feet.
maybe i can even have it built that way.

Put the double 2x4's & headers in when you initially build the garage....then it will be easier to take out portions....I've done the same thing before with no problem for a 8x4 bump-out to put parts washer, sand blaster.

 

[StingRay]

I didn't read the whole thread so I hope I'm not repeating anything. I added a lean to (sort of) to the side of my garage. I set up pallet racking and then covered that in. It's free standing on it's own and can really only be called a shed. It's 5' x 20' x 8' tall. In your case something like that with creative weather sealing to the garage might be just the ticket. The openings you want could really just be considered doors and windows. You'll need structural headers where you cut them in though. If the garage and the shed are not structurally attached is the shed an addition? It's the weather seal between them that will take some thinkin'. I can imagine coming up with a fabric accordian seal or a foam gasket that would curcumvent siding attachment and at the roof if it terminates below the existing roof overhang then a gasket could work there as well as all water would run away from the joint and all you need to seal against is air movement and pests. Prove you can cart your "shed" away and what could they really say.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Hey guys...the original poster left the building five years ago, so he probably won't see your responses.

 

[FoMoCoPower]

My 24x24 had a 7x15 lean-to shed behind it that my father built 20+ years ago. Well,about 5-6 years ago I made a faux door on the shed in place of the real one,and opened up a doorway from the inside of the garage to it. Installed a floor,inulated/drywalled it...and voila...an extra 105 sq. feet. It really,really helped out with space.

 

[tonydanzah]

We can only hope he will come back. GARAGER! I LOVE YOU!

 

[Gary S]

22x24? That's cruel. That won't even hold 2 fillsize cars and leave you room to sneeze.
Here the limit is 20% of the sq footage of the property. I built my garage 24x48, and still have enough room on my lot for a second garage that size, but that would cut into my food growing area so it won't happen.

 

[StingRay]

Wow 5 years. At least the thread is interesting and is fueling an exchange of ideas.

 

[oldtractors]

My limit was over 900 sq feet and I had to have footers. This was a residential pole building that sits on the slab. The local builder explained to the inspector that the building normally is build in 3' increments on the one side and 8' increments on the other side. Anything else is special and expensive and could we build it 30x32. The inspector asked me if any of the neighbors were going to measure the building. I said no. He told me that he would just assume it was 30 x 30 and never measure it. We sold the property this year and it the assessor still reports it as a 30x30.

 

[TA^Guy]

I know it *****, but can you build another building (smaller) and attach the two with a walkway of sorts?

Say, 12X12 office?

I kind of did that with my 'Shed'... Or that is what I told the neighbors it was. It's only three walls attached to the back of my garage and afterwards I cut the joining wall out and framed it for a doorway.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b204/TAGuy/Other/yard1.jpg

Wow 5 years. At least the thread is interesting and is fueling an exchange of ideas.

Exactally, nothing wrong with old threads. Never know when they will help out other people with the same problems.

 

[BLUBAYOU]

Reading through the thread I didn't see this mentioned. Sometimes fighting the decision can be successful from the perspective of what needs to go IN the garage instead of just a sq ft ideal.

"My truck is X ft long, X ft wide. My wife's car is blah blah. I have these tools that take up this space, etc". Use sketchup or other to draw it all out with everything that will (or "could") go in there to demonstrate the need for more space.

Showing that you will have to store items outside with the small size, which neighbors like less than a slightly bigger building, can help your cause sometimes. In the end though, you're at their mercy. Having built my own house, garage, and some other structures over the years has taught me to choose my battles. I've come to know some of the inspectors on a friendly professional basis, so they are pretty cool with what I want to do now. Had I said F it and done whatever I wanted without their approval, it'd have come back to haunt me already.

 

[BLUBAYOU]

also, depending on the function, building up can really help. I built a little smaller than I might have hoped (22wx26d, with 12w carport stuck on one side) but I gained it back in some ways by using attic trusses for storage and was able to get my ceiling height to the point where I could stack 2 cars in the footprint of one (using a lift) instead of putting 2 side by side. The added cost of a lift was far less than the cost to build the garage wider to accommodate another car, and gave me to other obvious functions of a lift. Win Win.

 

[Hurricane_Whisperer]

i will double up the support beams (2x4's) to support the roof ,only going to remove a few any way, remove just enough to get tool chest's in.
and then build the 'lean to' just like a regular wall only extended out 3 feet.
maybe i can even have it built that way.

That won't work. You have to put a header in at an opening.

Your garage could always have several doors on each side to the outside.

The lean to could be added later that is not part of the main structure in any way and the doors would allow you access to the lean to.

 

[Rosco]

Around here they do not consider it as part of the footprint if it is not closed in. Plus, I can have several "sheds" as long as they conform to the covenants and are not on a permanent slab.

I was limited to 800' so I went vertical

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

I WANT TO ADD MY 2 CENTS TO "CHEATING". I DID MORTGAGE LOANS FOR A FEW YEARS AFTER I RETIRED AND SAW MANY DEALS FALL THRU BECAUSE THE APPRAISAL AND/OR FINAL INSPECTION NOTED UNAPPROVED ADDITIONS/CHANGES TO THE APPROVED, "AS BUILT" PLANS ON FILE WITH THE PERMIT ISSUING AGENCY. HUD, FHA, VA, ETC WILL NOT APPROVE LOANS LIKE THIS AND THE COST TO CORRECT IS BIG $$!
PLAY BY THE RULES (you may not like them, but it's hard to beat the gov't red tape).

http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2008/5/15may27-caps-lock.jpg

 

[Furious D]

22x24? That's cruel. That won't even hold 2 fillsize cars and leave you room to sneeze.
.

At my first house I had a 20'x22' garage. I was able to stuff in two cars, one of them a full size 1978 Cadillac fleetwood, three motorcycles and a wood stove. You had to be real creative with storage . I even had a workbench across the back wall, I remember it being pretty skinny, about 18" wide.

 

[The Big M]

Hey guys...the original poster left the building five years ago, so he probably won't see your responses.

Sorry folks! I can't believe I did that. I've often wondered how people manage to dig up ancient threads, and now I know...

I honestly thought it was a current thread. I think I must have stumbled across it on a search and just posted without checking the date of the last post. My bad...

 

[scopx]

Some towns are using aerial surveillance. The bigger question is what happens if you get caught....

I live in less than urban area and have owned this property 9 years. I have checked occasionally on Google maps throughout the years and find they did (GOO)pick up the barn in 2009 aerial shots. And yes, think that more of the local governing (taxing bodies) are using this to find those that build without their permission. But due to the way the public system is becoming convoluted, do not have any sympathy as they ******* off our legacy.
To address "what to do if getting caught?" Beg for forgiveness, cry foul, and run for office.

 

[Rosco]

I live in less than urban area and have owned this property 9 years. I have checked occasionally on Google maps throughout the years and find they did (GOO)pick up the barn in 2009 aerial shots. And yes, think that more of the local governing (taxing bodies) are using this to find those that build without their permission. But due to the way the public system is becoming convoluted, do not have any sympathy as they ******* off our legacy.
To address "what to do if getting caught?" Beg for forgiveness, cry foul, and run for office.

Or.....run for office, cry foul, and then beg for forgiveness.