Above 1200 Sq/FT Barn Workshop build

[ururk]

Tuesday, June 9: I would have had the ground rods installed on Sunday but the ground rod "connector" (https://www.erico.com/category.asp?category=R2162) I purchased, well, would not ignite. The reason - the welding powder and igniting powder must have mixed in transit. The distributor sent me two new tubes via next day air, and those worked!

 

[ururk]

Thursday, June 11: Took the afternoon off.

Installed the two LB's - one for fiber (on the left) and a mogul LB for power. Caulked them and am letting it set over night:

Drilling those two holes was a major hassle - I had to cut two inspection holes, pull out insulation, and find appropriately long conduit pieces (ended up getting short sections and using a coupler).

You might be asking - why is the house four colors? Well, I painted the house but only finished three sides. The upper level siding on this side of the house had some dry rot - and so it is on my list of things to do. I also have to increase the grade (ground slopes towards house), fix the foam, trim out the block windows, and replace the top two levels of siding. I hope to get to it this year.

 

[ururk]

Saturday, June 13: Dig dig dig.

I'm waiting on a part to arrive for the electrical conduit (please don't ask ), so I spent some quality time digging for the water line at the house.

This was after an hour or two:

Repaired the damaged drainage pipe:

Nearly at 54":

At about 48" I ran into... broken cinder blocks. You can see two of them sticking out in the last photo. When the house was originally built... the builder had issues building a block wall (it kept falling in) and at some point the basement blew up. I don't know which failed part of the house build these blocks are from, but regardless they impede my digging so I've had to hand dig around them with a pick and pick them out - one by one

A tip I read - not sure if it was here - but has saved me a ton of time - use a shop vac to help remove excavated dirt. I used this early on and have used it in order to clean around the blocks to see where to pry them out.

Basically... after a day's worth of work I'm about half done. Not bad for my typical hole/trench digging track record, so should reach the basement wall tomorrow or Monday barring a cave-in (and yes... I'm risking things a bit with the lack of a proper slope on the walls). Ground is... clay, gravel, and now cinder block.

 

[ururk]

Sunday, June 14: Dug!

We are currently having unbelievably good weather. 60-78, low humidity, breezy on occasion. I don't want to even contemplate how I'd have done this with high temp high humidity.

When I got to the bottom along the foundation wall, an 8" circle with a slightly bigger void behind it was waiting for me perfectly centered in the pit.

The pile of cinder block I had to remove:

Finished trench!

 

[ururk]

Thursday, June 18: Some prep ahead of the weekend core drilling.

Finished digging to the drain around the footer - would have liked to have seen fabric and gravel, but when pouring water down it drained away (to about 1-2") so 'yea'. Shop vac+garden hose came in handy with clearing this out - there's a huge lump of concrete in the way, the shovel is resting on top of it. I'll be adding filter fabric and gravel below the hole I cored for the water, this should reduce any static water pressure and help deliver water directly to the footing drain, as people have suggested here and elsewhere.

Finished burying the conduit down at the barn, leaving a bit exposed in case the inspector wants to see the connections. I was told I don't need to... just don't want to have to dig it up if I do.

 

[Blackhawks63]

Lookin good !

 

[ururk]

Sunday, June 21: Meh, bad weekend for work - everything I needed for the next step is still being delivered. Spent a bit of time today cutting/prepping the wood panel behind the electrical panel. Nothing special enough for a picture, will hopefully have it installed tomorrow.

Later this week the core drill "bit" should arrive, and I have some final parts arriving for the electrical conduit outside on Monday... between rain storms I should able to finish both things - water pipe to house and electrical conduit.

Hopefully it will be cooler next week and I can begin digging a pit down at the barn for the water line.

 

[ururk]

Wednesday, June 24: Finished the electrical and fiber conduit outside:

The exterior foam was damaged years ago on this side by a weedwacker - I need to figure out how to replace it - either cut out the middle part and cut a new piece to fit (seems awfully fiddly) or use some sort of exterior spray foam product. I'm going to be raising the soil on this side of the house by about 4" (an inch below the window, then rocks) so do not necessarily have to cover it with the same kind of scratch coating it has now. Any suggestions for a product?

Total fiber run - 120' (a friend is giving me a 150' spool of fiber for free!)

Total electrical run - 110'

 

[ururk]

Thursday, June 25: Finalized the interior conduit run.

I couldn't tell if a grounding bushing was required or not - regardless I installed one. Will be running a #6 to the ground bar in this panel. The circuit is under 250V, so per the NEC does not appear to require one, but at the same token it's going through a concentric knockout and I'm not 100% happy with the meager attachment points it provides for a ground path.

 

[ururk]

Saturday, June 27: Conduit bent (heat gun), panel hung (temporarily).

Since my feed comes in from the bottom, I installed the main breaker on the bottom (flipped the panel).

Conduit from left to right:

- Conduit to outside the barn, to be used at a later date
- Ground wire, through an intersystem bonding bridge. This is probably unnecessary - but it was a $9 add and maybe one day I'll use it
- main feed
- fiber / telco pull

I have a torque wrench and screwdriver on the way - should be here next week and I can start connecting things.

 

[mike93lx]

Is that panel going to be big enough?...

 

[ururk]

Is that panel going to be big enough?...

It’s a little overkill for sure, but everyone I talked with said to go bigger. It has 42 spaces, I’ll probably only fill it up 50%. I almost went with a 30 space unit, but there wasn’t much of a price difference so it made more sense than having to add a subpanel down the line if I ran out of room. Leviton doesn’t offer a dual breaker that fits in a single slot, so yeah, can’t use those types of breakers if I run out of room.

The place I bought it from was very competitive on price - same price (with cover) as a siemens or square d. Breakers are a bit more expensive ($4 more than standard breakers), but down the line I could upgrade them to smart breakers and remotely monitor their status... somewhat of a pipe dream (expensive pipe dream) at the moment. It’s features ticked all of my boxes, and while I usually avoid anything Leviton I was pleased by the choices they made (materials etc...).

 

[ururk]

Monday, June 29th: Since this post was deleted in the site crash, might not capture exactly what happened but probably good enough.

Set up a rig to spool the wires out for the barn<->house conduit. Pulling wasn't easy, but turns out I was able to push the wires all the way to the barn. I used a few shots of Klein's foaming lubricant, though technically didn't need it since the wires were pre-lubed. My dad helped with the pull.

Done!

It was a pain to pull the wire inside the house. While my conduit fill was fine (22%) I had 360 degree's worth of bends. I spent more time pulling this run than I did to the barn.

 

[ururk]

Monday, July 6: Drilled through the house's foundation wall - 3" core bit, 10" of concrete, about an hour:

Traditional hydraulic cement + fernco adapter:

Link seal:

 

[ururk]

Tuesday, July 7: Coated the hydraulic cement with foundation coating:

 

[ururk]

Thursday, July 10: Covered the water pipe, tamped the soil, and put the gas line in place. I have a bit of soil to backfill and grade (at an angle) so the gas line will have a gradual rise to grade. Code says 12" minimum, I probably won't come even close to this - more like 24". I have tracer wire (which I'll be electrical taping to the pipe) and bury-able tape.

It's been hot the past week or two, high humidity (90F/90%), so I've been doing less outside than I hoped. This weekend looks good, hope to have the line for the gas graded, other electrical trench backfilled, and the main electrical connections done. That leaves two circuits - the lighting circuit and an outlet by the load center.

 

[ururk]

Saturday, July 11: Cooler and less humid than the previous days. Buried the electrical conduit at the house.

I've decided not to tackle the foundation foam crack yet. It's been like that for years, and I'm not going to worry about it until I regrade/reside this side of the house.

 

[matt_i]

Looking good, I think a previous comment of mine got lost in the forum blip but...

...is the fiber bend-y enough to pull thru an LB conduit body? Those always seem super tight to me when just pulling copper wire (and closing up the cover). I have never worked with fiber so I really have no idea....

My other comment was about putting in an oversized conduit trunk line in your shop that has a number of T- bodies in it. Assuming the tees are close to a place you want, you can just pull more wires into it. I did this and although I have an attic to make it easier, having the wireway in place has made the next jobs a lot easier.

Panel is huge!

 

[ururk]

Looking good, I think a previous comment of mine got lost in the forum blip but...

...is the fiber bend-y enough to pull thru an LB conduit body? Those always seem super tight to me when just pulling copper wire (and closing up the cover). I have never worked with fiber so I really have no idea....

Good catch! I found a fiber-specific LB - normally costs $52.00 but got an amazon warehouse deal for $18! It’s a bit deeper than the mogul fitting, and has a graceful curve built into it.

My other comment was about putting in an oversized conduit trunk line in your shop that has a number of T- bodies in it. Assuming the tees are close to a place you want, you can just pull more wires into it. I did this and although I have an attic to make it easier, having the wireway in place has made the next jobs a lot easier.

Panel is huge!

Not quite sure what you mean by this - are there any photos of this sort of setup that you could post?

 

[ururk]

Sunday, July 12: Since the heat/humidity dissipated, I decided to switch things up and unbury the gas/water lines down at the barn, and get the water line piped into the pipe I put in place when the foundation was poured.

I didn't get a full day of work in - only about 6 hours - end result:

Should I have rented a mini excavator? Probably. There were... logistical issues getting one. Namely, I didn't have a vehicle to tow it, and wasn't about to spend $200 on delivery. Short-sighted, yes. But, I don't have experience with this sort of equipment, it would mean more chewed up grass on the front lawn, and there would be regardless a significant amount of hand digging anyhow, so why make it easy on myself?

 

[ururk]

Monday, July 13: took most of the day off work, got in about 10 hours of digging.

Note the large pick axe in the upper left corner. I had to break that puppy out as some of the clay just would not budge. Thankfully it was only one 10" layer. Depth - close to 6'. Will be when I dig to the pipes.

 

[ururk]

Tuesday, July 14: At about this point I'm wondering - maybe I should have rented that machine. True, at close to $600 for a single day (includes delivery) I'd have had this done by now, but I have a feeling that it wouldn't have gone as smoothly as this has.

And done! Mostly. Got about 10 hours of digging in today.

The last pit I dug was just a little too small, and you'll notice it's about 14" away from the wall. I had to do this because I have a french drain where the stem wall sits on top of the trench foundation. Regardless, I was able to locate the pipe coming out of the foundation that will receive the water pipe. In fact, as luck would have it, my pit was situated perfectly to locate this pipe, and it was only a few inches lower than I had expected - which is excellent, as it puts it at a very safe depth from freezing.

I have a few more hours of digging - both the water line and water pipe sleeve are a few inches below where I had dug. I'm probably going to dig the bare minimum of a trench (instead of the flat, wide one I had put in).

Once done, I'm going to backfill the water line, and need to make a decision on where to bring the gas line in.

 

[smschriefer]

Have you bought stock in Motrin? lol Things are looking great. I'm amazed at how that trenches look. In my area you'd be knee deep in water, or maybe more.

 

[ururk]

Have you bought stock in Motrin? lol Things are looking great. I'm amazed at how that trenches look. In my area you'd be knee deep in water, or maybe more.

LOL

I was fully expecting water, and we get rain this weekend so I have to get the water line piped in today and the water trench backfilled.

Speaking of water - it may be there but it must be moving very slowly though the clay "soil". When they did the directional bore, water was used as a cutting/lubricant for the cutting head. The clay that it wet was still saturated with water - like a thick paste. I'm sure the moisture would eventually be absorbed by the surrounding "soil" but it might take years (I'm not a geologist, so don't quote me on this).

 

[ururk]

Wednesday, July 15: Success! Worked another 10 hours.

Gas and water go their separate ways:

I had to use a 3" 45 degree sweep, 3x2 fernco, 2" straight, and 2x3/4" fernco to seal the water pipe. I'm not terribly concerned if water leaks in, but hopefully it doesn't. Getting it through was... interesting. Ended up using an electrical conduit lubricant to reduce friction, but it pushed right through.

I tried to backfill it all, but ran out of daylight and decided not to continue. Hopefully the rain tomorrow doesn't cause a cave-in.

 

[jollygreengiant]

Am I the only one not seeing any pics???

 

[ururk]

Am I the only one not seeing any pics???

I'm posting inline from Instagram... it should work (I can see them). They show up when I'm in incognito mode. Can you see my instagram profile directly?

https://www.instagram.com/wondersofthesmall/

 

[matt_i]

I can see these pics, not sure what is going wrong.

Great progress, hope you got thru the rain OK with the open trenches...if not Mother Nature might have started the backfilling process for you Don't ask how I know about this!

 

[ururk]

Friday, July 17: Couldn't sleep, so I did some work around 2:30AM. Not sure if this should be considered Thursday or Friday

Not a whole lot of work mind you - just installed a box for two outlets, connected the conductors. My neutral wire - I stripped it to the required length, and it sticks out the top a tiny tiny bit, but there's about 1/2" showing below the lug. Not sure if I should be concerned. I'm also unsure if it is safe to undo the lug, push the wire up, and retorque - I read somewhere once a lug is tightened down it shouldn't be reused.

The open conduit on the bottom right is too tall - I'll be cutting it down when I get closer to installing my fiber cable.

 

[ururk]

I can see these pics, not sure what is going wrong.

Great progress, hope you got thru the rain OK with the open trenches...if not Mother Nature might have started the backfilling process for you Don't ask how I know about this!

Thanks! I was fortunate - last time I looked they made it through yesterday's rain. Supposed to be in the 90's this weekend, but my goal is to fill as much as I can (need to leave the gas exposed for inspection). Plus I still have to determine where to bring the gas in to the barn, and how. Now that I know how to core drill, do I core through the stem wall above grade, or punch through my siding? I don't like the idea of going through my siding, and it makes a lot of things complicated. At least with concrete I can seal it well with a caulk and a link seal.

 

[matt_i]

Imo if you have full contact on the lug then the extra exposed is no big deal, some claim it reduces heat by giving air a chance to circulate around the copper rather than the insulation.

However I had a couple I did where the tip of the pressure screw was just barely smashing the tip of the THHN strands and I replaced them with longer. I don't think there's any harm in redoing a lug as long as it is tight. Those big strands are a heck of a lot tougher than fine stranded small gauge wire.

If possible I think I'd go below grade for the gas entry...that way there is absolutely no potential for damage.

 

[ururk]

Imo if you have full contact on the lug then the extra exposed is no big deal, some claim it reduces heat by giving air a chance to circulate around the copper rather than the insulation.

However I had a couple I did where the tip of the pressure screw was just barely smashing the tip of the THHN strands and I replaced them with longer. I don't think there's any harm in redoing a lug as long as it is tight. Those big strands are a heck of a lot tougher than fine stranded small gauge wire.

If possible I think I'd go below grade for the gas entry...that way there is absolutely no potential for damage.

I don't think below grade is allowed, except when sleeved - I didn't put a sleeve in, and can't. Well - I might be allowed to run the anodeless riser below grade through the buried part of the stem wall but I want an external shutoff outside the barn.

I've attached two diagrams of what I'm thinking - the grade will be raised about 8" from what the diagram shows, and I'll be adding stone around the foundation.

I'm leaning towards coring, less stuff to have to seal/cut through.

 

[ururk]

Sunday, July 19: Finished wiring the lower circuits, planned out the run to the external lights.

Need to cap these wires with wire nuts I presume for the rough inspection.

 

[mike93lx]

Get your rough done before adding anything that isn't required. Less to get nit picked. Would **** to fail because you had something unfinished

 

[ururk]

Get your rough done before adding anything that isn't required. Less to get nit picked. Would **** to fail because you had something unfinished

From what I can tell for the rough I need:

1) All wires run to their boxes, capped
2) Circuit breakers installed but OFF
3) Ground rods installed, uncovered

I have one conduit to run to the second floor for the exterior lighting circuit, going to Menards to pick up some EMT, fittings, and wire.

After rough, I connect my devices, label my breakers, and call the inspector back. Aiming for rough next week. After which, if I pass, it'll only take a few hours to connect the outlets and lighting circuits.

 

[mike93lx]

From what I can tell for the rough I need:

1) All wires run to their boxes, capped
2) Circuit breakers installed but OFF
3) Ground rods installed, uncovered

I have one conduit to run to the second floor for the exterior lighting circuit, going to Menards to pick up some EMT, fittings, and wire.

After rough, I connect my devices, label my breakers, and call the inspector back. Aiming for rough next week. After which, if I pass, it'll only take a few hours to connect the outlets and lighting circuits.

Ah, you are getting it all inspected. Nevermind.

 

[ururk]

Ah, you are getting it all inspected. Nevermind.

Unfortunately, the person at the building department would not tell me what inspections were required, just "they are the normal inspections required by building code". So... I probably should try to find the spot in Michigan building code where it lists which are required. I was not going to get this inspected, but I want to have a gas appliance... which will require electricity... and I want the gas inspected so figured it would be a bit odd to have that done in the future and have questions raised.

 

[ururk]

Ultimately, our COVID cases #'s are increasing and our governor has been shutdown-happy, so I need to have the inspector out here before we shut down again, which is what is driving me to finish, besides the fact that I want to get it finished and have real electricity finally.

 

[mike93lx]

Unfortunately, the person at the building department would not tell me what inspections were required, just "they are the normal inspections required by building code". So... I probably should try to find the spot in Michigan building code where it lists which are required. I was not going to get this inspected, but I want to have a gas appliance... which will require electricity... and I want the gas inspected so figured it would be a bit odd to have that done in the future and have questions raised.

I seriously doubt they will put 2 and 2 together between gas and electric as they will be different inspectors, but probably better safe than sorry.

 

[ururk]

Wednesday, July 29: This is a composite of multiple days work, but since that time was spent learning how to bend EMT, not really "counting" those days.

I'm having the inspector over next Thursday for the rough inspection, and if that goes well Monday for final. I know this seems like a snails pace, but it is what it is.