Bethlehem "Quickway" Socket Sets - Bethlehem Spark Plug Co.

[Oldtuleguy]

Both of mine as well

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Not sure what you're referring to there, Otg.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Sorry lugz thought you were referring to the lettering on the ratchet.

 

[LesserSon]

OTG, the second rat you posted looks like mine. The small Bs in Bethlehem and also the tight spacing between Bethlehem and PA.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Ah, gotcha. At least those are fairly consistent! I'm giving up on the sockets. Lol

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That's the later metal box set. Yours is likely a tweener.

 

[LesserSon]

I had the rat apart to clean and lube it. Back together temporarily, but I think it wants some deburring of the interior wall of the head, because the teeth still catch on it, creating a lot of backdrag. And maybe new face plate screws. One is seriously buggered.
Otherwise, pretty spry for a 97-year-old.

 

[Farmer J.]

Hi all,

Here's my Christmas story for you this year, it's a nice sunny day so after posting this and sending the story to all my kids around the world I'm going to play outside and clean the windows on my Land Rover before turkey supper later..

Mrs Farmer J. bought me a tiny old socket set for Christmas, to add to my vintage tool collection, it's the tiny 'A' set which fits within the box of a 'D' set made in 1923 (according to the Bonney date code on the ratchet) which I bought recently but it was missing the 'A' set. As usual it's not the 'thing' it's the story behind it that is most interesting, so here goes.

This main set 'D' that I have was previously owned by a chap who served in the British Army in Palestine, stationed in Jerusalem. In 1948 our army withdrew from the area and had to destroy or take away all equipment with them otherwise the Jews and Arabs would use it to fight each other with. They loaded all the equipment on to ships at Haifa to depart but the ships were dangerously overloaded. Heavy military fighting vehicles were parked on deck facing the side and when they were about a mile out to sea the soldiers were ordered to fire the engines up, put them in gear then jump out and let them go over the side. He was also ordered to throw 'all those old tools' over the side as well to lighten the ship but thought 'I can't waste these good quality American made tools' so he hid them in his kit bag and brought them home with him. A 'Bethlehem' socket set was quite appropriate for him to keep after serving in the Army in Palestine.

Hope you enjoyed the story, Happy Christmas from J.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Nice set and a great story!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I first posted this at Christmastime 2017, J. - but in honor of your incredible story, and the provenance of your set, I am posting it again!

View media item 78575
O little town of Bethlehem…

 

[four.cycle]

Farmer J. - that is quite the provenance on that set!

Amazingly, it appears to have retained some of the copper coating!

 

[Farmer J.]

Glad you guys enjoyed the story, of course, I have to say, it's because of this thread and your research that I even knew what the set was when it came up for sale!
The history of this set does raise a question, and Lugz is the man for it.. Were these sets an Army issue, even when they were 25 years old?
The PO must have loved and cherished his Quickway set as he went on to be partner in a motor garage business and it's well used.. There was 3 extra Whitworth hex drive sockets in the box when I got it which look to be the same pattern knurling as the original set ones. One intermediate size between them was missing but amazingly I had a spare 'orphan' one of exactly the same pattern so now have 4 Whitworth in 1/2" hex drive as extras to go with the original Bethlehem set.

the remaining tools he saved when departing from Haifa are for sale now on eBay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-drive-...-1-1-2-to-1-13-16-1-9-16-missing/293391498239

As his son says, he must have had a heavy kit bag when he landed at Southampton!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Were these sets an Army issue even when they were 25 years old?

A lot of US interwar/prewar equipment landed up in the inventory for WWII, J. The GMTK that the US Army was issuing until 1942 was specified in 1938. Until the US Treasury Dept updated Federal Specifications in 1943, most of the tools were acquired based on 1934 specs that were rubberstamped again as is in the late 1930's. Prewar tools have been found in unmolested Army surplus boxes with 1953 re-pack dates, and some of them have been very early (late 20's/early 30's). It stayed in the inventory and was issued when supply couldn't keep up with demand during the buildup. A colleague in the UK tells me it was pretty much the same in the British Army. Having said all that, I have to admit, 1923 seems almost impossibly early for that explanation. And what I don't understand is how a set of US tools from the mid 1920's ended up with the British Army, let alone the British Army in Mandatory Palestine during the postwar fighting (White Paper, King David Hotel, Haganah, Transjordan, Civil War, etc).

Was the British Army buying new tools from the US in 1923? I don't think so, which means it would've had to have been supplied through the US forces/government just before or during WWII. I know we were sending as much as we could through Lend-Lease (the Nazi threat from the north to the British position in Iraq in midsummer 1941 was the reason for American “neutral” aid to Britain in the Middle East – and the British aid was being used as a ruse to also aid Russia, which had not yet been approved for Lend-Lease) via ports in the Persian Gulf. A railway connecting the Persian Gulf via Baghdad with the Mediterranean at Tripoli and the Bosporus at Istanbul was British controlled. Or maybe it was part of some US outpost in the region (Iran, Iraq, etc) from well before the war and landed up in British hands.

It’s a bit of a stumper.

 

[Farmer J.]

Thanks for your information on this Lugz, and I agree with you it is a bit of a stumper.
I lean towards the idea that this set may have been from some US outpost and obtained locally in Palestine.
I have no reason to doubt the history of it or anything else as told by the previous owner, but unfortunately he's no longer with us to ask him further details of the story.
His son had no idea that the set was so old, he told me that it had been supplied from America (along with the other tools his Father had) as Lend-Lease.

 

[twertsy]

Fantastic story on that set Farmer J.!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Those sets were popular with car owners. Perhaps it made it's way there with an old car.

 

[Farmer J.]

Those sets were popular with car owners. Perhaps it made it's way there with an old car.

I suspect that's as likely an explanation as any, and maybe it was in an Army staff car or something like that. The actual facts of how this set got to Palestine are going to recede into the mists of time but at least we have all enjoyed the story left to us from the PO of how he saved it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Immensely.

It also prompted me to dip back into "The Middle East Theater", one of twelve (12) volumes published by the Center for Military History in the early 50's. Fresh, studious, technical, and well-annotated, the "Green Books" as they are known in the WWII history community, remain the best source for WWII military history, and, last year the entire series was put on-line. I have read the volumes on the Ordnance Dept and the QMC several times and refer to them often. Here is a link to the Mideast Green Book if you'd like to noodle around in the history of your set.

 

[Farmer J.]

Thanks for the link to the Green Book, Lugz, I still don't have enough internet to open it! Had bad trouble with the 'phone line to the farm for over a month, British Telecom sent the latest engineer he's been working on it all day and got it working a lot better but still painfully slow. The cable is certainly 'vintage', it was laid before my memory and is now well perished! I will have a look one day when able to..

 

[LesserSon]

I’m still trying to reconcile my inventory of components to the lists shown under the lids (my wood box set has no lid - yet).
I note that the wood box list has the sockets listed by 32nds and begins with 10=5/16”, uses 16=1/2”, 16A=1/2”, 16S=1/2” for three 1/2” sockets/adapters, and ends with 30=15/16”. I don’t see in the wood box lid pics a list of drive tools.
The steel box lists show a different (arbitrary) numbering system, beginning with 1=9/32”, skipping 13/32”(included in the wood box list), pausing at 7=1/2” (I assume these are all 3/8dr), resuming with 31=17/32”, running up to 44=15/16”, 45=1/2”A, 46=1/2”SP, then jumping to 61 Ratchet Wrench, and ending with 69=U-joint.
So...
Does anyone really have all three 1/2” sockets, and is one of them a 3/8dr?
What is the length and drive size of extension#65?
What part number is this Sliding Tee? It’s NOT 68, as I think that must be the tommy bar., and not 67, as that is the 1/2hex ell (mine is cut down to 5-1/2”). Was it included in the wood box set, or only in the steel box set? (I had purchased it separately, but have noticed how well it nests in the relieved edge of the wooden socket organizer if the ratchet it turned with the head between the raised block and the outer wall.)
Also, the ell handle (#67, right?) I have is 1/2hex, about 5-1/2” length...I believe this has been cut down from an original 8-3/4” length. The cut marks are rough (though square) compared to the short leg, and there is no detent ball, hole or stop on the long leg - is there supposed to be?

 

[LesserSon]

Twertsy started a couple threads on the subject of the manufacturer...

a second thread pertaining to a BSP Co ratchet with a still unidentified forge mark, linked here.
Note that this subject has been expounded on by he and I on TA, found here.

I just took a good hard look at the image of the “third” (unidentified) manufacturer, and it looks like a Bonney B-shield, accidentally struck twice. Further, the raised edge of the handle of the mystery ratchet appears narrower at the ****, as the metal seems to have been flattened into the depression as from a second strike shifted approximately 1/16” toward the ****.

Are there other examples of these ratchets? Or an image that shows the rest of the ratchet, to compare it to the known Bonneys?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Mine has one 1/2" in the A set, which also has a 9/32 not listed on the D box lid , and 2 1/2" sockets in the D box. There is a list of drive tools but not all that legible. I think it came with the L but mine is missing. Mine does not have t handle but may have come with it.

 

[LesserSon]

Thanks, OTG! I can see that the numbering is different from the steel box set, even if I can’t read it all. 59=61, 60=69, etc.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

LS:

- The drive handles for the D sets are listed on the right hand side of the burned-in wood box contents "decal", just like they are on the water transfer contents decal on the steel boxes. But the photos of the wood box lids that have been posted to date are difficult to read. See post #33 and post #130.

- I have all three (3) 1/2" sockets. One of them is in the 3/8-inch drive A set that is integral to the D sets. The other two are both 1/2-inch drive. They are identical. You can't tell them apart. But they are given different part numbers and purposes; one of them is ostensibly a socket and the other an adapter. Essentially, they are interchangeable. See Posts #50 and #51.

- No. 65 in the steel box sets is a 3/8-inch drive extension that is 4" OAL.

- BSPCo. considered and called the "Sliding Tee" an "L Handle", which is technically more correct, since it has a handle like an "offset handle" (Indestro) or an "obstruction handle" (Blackhawk). Unlike those kinds of Ell handles, it happens to also slide and can be used with the drive head in the middle (like a Sliding Tee), but it still has that handle on the one end (unlike a Sliding Tee). It is No. 67 in the steel box D sets.

- In the steel box D sets, No. 68 is the cross bar for No. 65, which has a 3/16" hole cross-drilled in one end.

- There is no 1/2-inch drive Ell handle in the steel box D sets. Just the (Sliding) L Handle and a few different OAL extensions. I'm not sure about the wood box sets. I don't think there was an (Sliding) L handle in the wood box sets, so perhaps it did have a regular L handle.

Have you read posts #44, #46, #50, and #51? In them I try to de-tangle many if not all of the questions above. Close-ups of my steel box D set in post #21.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

My metal d box is more legible. The contents seem identical, other than wood box set probably came with regular large L instead of sliding T

 

[LesserSon]

Lugz-
I’ve been through the entire thread several times, though “scanning” is more accurate than “reading.” My intent is to determine the correct contents, numbering and nomenclature for my wood box D set. What I am seeing is there are some differences from the steel sets, particularly in the numbering scheme, but apparently also the 1/2” Ell-Tee drive tool, as OTG just pointed out.
The extensive reporting and detailed comparison of the steel box D sets, either with one another or contrasted with the other lettered sets, does not match my current focus. For example, since the configuration of the wood box is not the same as the steel ones, the optimal placement of the component tools is different.
The sliding drive tool is particularly puzzling to me, because the contour of the socket-holding insert matches it so well. But then, if it’s a later substitute for a hex-key-style ell, and isn’t listed, it shouldn’t fit.
From the limited photos of wood D sets, it may be there was a design change to the socket insert prior to the changeover to the steel box: some pics seem to show a straight edge, where mine has a step. It’s really too bad my set lost its original lid, because the parts list might reflect such a possibility.
I did find eBay photos of a wood D set that can be adjusted enough to read the contents - I’ll contribute a side-by-side parts number comparison with the steel sets when I have time.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The one on ebay now looks like it has the typical L handle, and interestingly the 9/32 is not listed on the lid either.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

What I am seeing is there are some differences from the steel sets, particularly in the numbering scheme,

Already noticed, addressed, and discussed in some detail in the posts I cited. Edit: I still think post #130, pic 3, is your best view of the handles list on wood box sets, as I recommended above.

Hopefully my answers to your other questions helped as well.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

LS:

Here's a wood box Set D label zoom.

And here's what I noted back in 2017 in posts #44 and #46 (found on page 3) - now expressed in more organized form in a table so we can discuss and try to understand and resolve it even further.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Comments:

- As I noted back in 2017, they seem to intentionally avoid duplicating part numbers, despite the fact that the wood- and steel-box sets have common pieces, going to an arbitrary system as opposed to the number of 32/nds, as you have already noted yourself. Unless, as you have alluded to, they aren't exactly the same and they wanted to distinguish them.

- Note that part No. 81 (row 30 in the table) is Qty 2. That might help identify it (description is illegible)

- Note that part numbers 8 and 9 are not used in either set (apparently because they didn't serve any purpose in the wood box 32/nds scheme, and weren't needed in the steel box scheme).

- I listed the items verbatim in table rows 32-37 and the format is OAL and then drive size

- Once we sort out which handles are common to both sets, I can update (compress) the table (e.g., row 27 and row 36 are likely the same tool), but for now I have them listed separately.

 

[LesserSon]

Yes, thank you Lugz, please take a breath.
Thank you for the driving directions: posts 44 46 50 51 definitely anticipate my own exploration - you got there first.
Much easier to navigate the realm of BSPCo with a guide. “Here be Dragons” and “Terra Incognita” should be posted liberally. The doppelgängers and simulacrums are just a few of the hazards. More QuickSand than QuickWay, if you ask me.
Especially thank you for the tabular chart: exactly what I had in mind. Easy to see those sinkholes before falling into them. If I may presume to suggest some anmendments...
I think line 10 should read 16S not 16B for the wood box list (wbl). I am confident that line 25 is 50 not 68 for wbl, and line 26 60 not 69 for wbl.
Lines 30 and 31 say “adapters” and “adapter” in the wbl. Note there is “1” of every item, but “2 #84 adapters” on line 31 wbl. I speculate these three adapters are equivalent to the “extension bars” in the steel box list (sbl), maybe #81 being two 1” extensions and #84 being one 4” extension.

I hereby claim “educational purpose” for the cleaned-up screenshots.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Good analysis. I concur with everything. I updated the chart.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Nice job! I can actually read those

 

[LesserSon]

looks like a Bonney B-shield, accidentally struck twice. Further, the raised edge of the handle of the mystery ratchet appears narrower at the ****, as the metal seems to have been flattened into the depression as from a second strike shifted approximately 1/16” toward the ****.

Are there other examples of these ratchets? Or an image that shows the rest of the ratchet, to compare it to the known Bonneys?

I followed up on this idea, and ran an experiment.
I sprayed the handle of my Bonney B-shield QuickWay ratchet with some hairspray as a releasing agent, and pressed some epoxy putty onto it. After the epoxy cured, I pressed it into some damp clay. It took a few tries to get the lateral offset right for the second pressing, and maintaining the angle was difficult because I formed the round mold onto the end of a dowel. Additionally, the granular additives in the clay body made the result less evenly colored and less smooth than I would have liked.
But perhaps you will accept it as a proof of concept - that a double-struck Bonney ratchet has created the misleading idea of a third, unidentified forge producing QuickWay ratchets.

 

[LesserSon]

When/where did that ratchet begin to seen as evidence for a third forge? Twertsy correctly identifies it as Bonney in the 2016 post here.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I was aware of a herbrand sourced ratchet, but a third one is news to me. The one you are commenting on here does look like a double stamped bonney.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

When/where did that ratchet begin to seen as evidence for a third forge?

This post…

Anyone ever seen this before? Can't seem to dig it up anywhere. It's a real mystery. Same ratchet, same brand (Bethlehem Spark Plug Company), 3 different Forge marks so far; Bonney, Herbrand and this one.

…in this 2015 thread.

EDIT: Looks like he reached the same conclusion as you at a later date. Or simply identified it as Bonney by mistake. Machts nichts. It's straightened out now.

 

[LesserSon]

I dismantled, repaired, cleaned and put a thin shellac and rubbed BLO finish on my chestnut box. The bottom was split and the basswood insert had a multitude of drying cracks. A lot of superglue went into the tedious repairs.

 

[LesserSon]

...you can make or adapt a lid from something else - and then put a facsimile decal on it!

I started down that road. After waiting fruitlessly for the universe to deliver a piece of 1/4” chestnut, I broke down and re-sawed a 1-1/2” slab I had. The grain pattern is more wild than the original, but it’s not like chestnut wood grows on trees (anymore). First piece I cut 1/8” too short, because my thrifty side didn’t want the waste to be less than 36”. Dumb! so a second piece, and now I had the right length. Even so, I cut the finger joints a tad too deep, making the entire lid an equal tad smaller than the base. Final error was trimming the lid exactly square, whereas the base was actually just out of square. So the fit is imperfect, but okay. As is the color match. Clear shellac, a little distillate of dissolved 78rpm records, and rubbed-out BLO. I have a brown toner, but it interacts with chestnut to turn pink. No thanks.
I’ve thought of distressing the lid a bit to match the wear on the base, but if I do, it will be after the finish has a chance to really cure. I will keep an eye open for a matching brass hook and two latches. One problem with the sockets is the shrinkage of the wood over the last century. The universal joint, particularly does not fit well into the round holes in the basswood anymore, and also interferes with the lids closing completely, which I think may explain why it was missing in the first place. It may have spilt apart if something heavy was stacked on the box. These are issues I could have addressed in the reproduction lid, if I had anticipated them. I could of course make a second, modified lid, but I have integrated the one remaining piece of the original into the construction, and I feel keeping it is more important than perfecting a complete replacement. For what it is, it serves the intended purpose.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Dayum, LS, you do nice woodwork! One would be hard pressed to identify that lid as a replacement. Seriously sweet. (BTW, there is a complete 9-piece "A" set in its wood box for sale on eBay right now for $20. Not mine, no connection, yada yada. It goes right into that empty slot on the left! )