Just remove the set screw. Seems to be a challenge to get them to align. Combine that with cheep blocks and collets, the set screw doesn’t always fit in the slot in the collet. Just easier to remove the screw. Haven’t had any issues tightening them.
Bought Bridgeport Clone - Now Getting it Set Up for Basic Machining
- Thread starter bulletpruf
- Start date
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Question about getting the shop set up - I need to reorganize stuff a bit and looking for some thoughts on what not to put next to the mill.
The grinder and sander should be on the other side of the shop, right? I'd rather not get the abrasive dust on the mill. I'll eventually get a lathe, and I'm guessing that's fine parked right next to the mill, correct? I'm thinking my welding should be done over by the grinder and sander, away from the mill and lathe, correct?
Thanks
The grinder and sander should be on the other side of the shop, right? I'd rather not get the abrasive dust on the mill. I'll eventually get a lathe, and I'm guessing that's fine parked right next to the mill, correct? I'm thinking my welding should be done over by the grinder and sander, away from the mill and lathe, correct?
Thanks
I placed my lathes and mills in SE corner of the shop, only sharing space with diamond tool dressing grinder. Welders kept on SW side, but I usually put the tables N central. Grinders share North wall only with hydraulic press and drill press. I would love to have separate rooms for dirty vs. clean stuff, but just not possible.
Jswain
Well-known member
That's ideal. I throw a welding blanket over my lathe & mill, sometimes it's months in between using them and lots of welding/grinding/painting/whatever in between. Keeps from having to clean them off as much.
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
I use fitted sheets from Goodwill and mark what side is the outter/dirty side. Once in a blue moon I throw them in the wash.
rdoty
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I got the cheapest car cover on Amazon and cut it in half to cover my lathe and mill.
On the subject of covers, I picked up a cheap grill cover from Walmart, cut a slit up one end and use it to cover my Miller 252 welder. Miller wanted around $200 this one was $25. Now is a good time to grab one because most are 50% off.
Ron
Ron
RoninB4
Well-known member
Absolutely keep grinding as far away as possible from the other machinery. I constructed a small room just to keep the surface and cutter grinders in. A lathe near the mill isn't a bad thing provided it doesn't interfere with the mill. I've used the mill table to support long pieces in the lathe. An ersatz bearing support can even be on the mill table to allow rotation without the "whipping" effect from a long unsupported shaft/tube.
A moveable set of standing screens (PVC frame) can help keep milling chips contained to the immediate area for less cleanup. Small, sturdy shelves should hold tooling/fixtures nearby for each machine.
A moveable set of standing screens (PVC frame) can help keep milling chips contained to the immediate area for less cleanup. Small, sturdy shelves should hold tooling/fixtures nearby for each machine.
I have my shop laid out the way raw material come in the door. First I have my horizontal and vertical bandsaws. Next I have my vertical belt sander and my 8 inch bench grinders. After that I have my Bridgeport milling machine and my Clausing lathe. I don't have any concerns about abrasive dust on my mill or my lathe. You need to be very careful if you machine magnesium. When I was a test engineer I covered the ways of the machines and used a shop vac after that. The chips need to be disposed of responsibly (highly flammable).
Even though I have a large shop I do a lot of my cutting and grinding with my 14 inch abrasive saw, and 4 1/2 inch angle grinder outside the shop. I highly recommend putting your grinders and saws on wheels. Casters are relatively inexpensive and give you the luxury of moving your shop to your advantage. Just my two cents.
Even though I have a large shop I do a lot of my cutting and grinding with my 14 inch abrasive saw, and 4 1/2 inch angle grinder outside the shop. I highly recommend putting your grinders and saws on wheels. Casters are relatively inexpensive and give you the luxury of moving your shop to your advantage. Just my two cents.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Your system sounds like a good one. I put casters on the base of my grinder. I also have a smaller workbench on casters so I can wheel it outside for dirty work.
I need a real bandsaw; right now I'm using a Milwaukee corded bandsaw mounted on a SWAG table.
I collect and rebuild vintage chainsaws, so I'm familiar with the magnesium issue.
I have a good sized abrasive saw and a few angle grinders, too, of course. I try to use them outside if possible.
Thanks
36truck
Well-known member
If you are looking for a good band saw. Look at Ellis saws.
1200 Mitre Band Saw - Ellis Mfg, Inc.
Ellis 1200 Mitre Band Saw features angle cutting, and one step conversion from horizontal to vertical band saw.
ellissaw.com
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Ended up picking up a nice drill press today - Grizzly 20". Guy bought it a few years ago and never used it. Still had styrofoam packaging protecting the pulleys. Came with a vise and a base on casters.
alfadan
Well-known member
I'm going to kick the anthill...
Why would anyone need a drill press if they have a mill?
Why would anyone need a drill press if they have a mill?
I often walk past my Bridgeport to get to the drill press for quick one offs.I'm going to kick the anthill...
Why would anyone need a drill press if they have a mill?
A drill press can be so much easier to setup than a mill, you turn it on and drill!
I keep a sacrificial wooden table on mine so through holes aren’t a concern.
The milling vise or rotary table isn’t in the way.
There’s a boatload of Z axis room on a drill press.
No sawdust on the mill.
Perfect place to mount a sanding drum or anything abrasive that you wouldn’t want on the mill.
My biggest pet peeve, if you don’t need the accuracy (most projects don’t), cranking handles to drill holes is for chumps!
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
For those who asked why I needed/wanted mill, I just brought my '71 AMC Javelin road race project to the shop last weekend (made room for it when I sold the Cat 977). Being an AMC, there's not a lot of aftermarket support, so it will be helpful to have the ability to fabricate stuff.
And then there's my '69 Bronco barn find project; that made it to the shop about two weeks ago. It will be a mild build, at least for now, but if I end up doing full-width axles and such, I'll need to be able to fab stuff for that, too.
I would also like to be able to do some Second Amendment stuff - maybe get set up and licensed to do silencers?
I still need a lathe, but what about a horizontal metal cutting bandsaw? I've never used one, but they sure take up a lot of space, and I'm running short on space already.
Right now, for cutting metal, I have a Sawzall, grinders with cutoff wheels, a Milwaukee portaband on a SWAG stand, oxyacetylene torch, a Milwaukee M18 metal cutting circular saw, and a larger abrasive chop saw.
And then there's my '69 Bronco barn find project; that made it to the shop about two weeks ago. It will be a mild build, at least for now, but if I end up doing full-width axles and such, I'll need to be able to fab stuff for that, too.
I would also like to be able to do some Second Amendment stuff - maybe get set up and licensed to do silencers?
I still need a lathe, but what about a horizontal metal cutting bandsaw? I've never used one, but they sure take up a lot of space, and I'm running short on space already.
Right now, for cutting metal, I have a Sawzall, grinders with cutoff wheels, a Milwaukee portaband on a SWAG stand, oxyacetylene torch, a Milwaukee M18 metal cutting circular saw, and a larger abrasive chop saw.
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Jswain
Well-known member
Horizontal bandsaw is a huge time saver if you are doing fab work with tubulars. It might take longer to make the cut then a dry saw, but you set it up and you can be cleaning, tacking, welding other parts at the same time...
Nice and quiet, next to no mess/dust.
Nice and quiet, next to no mess/dust.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Question on the mill - the knee didn't have a handle to raise it and lower it, so I ordered one. Unfortunately, it doesn't work; the handle turns but it won't raise or lower. Any ideas on what could be wrong?
Also, the gear that tilts the head must have gotten broken when I moved it. It worked when I moved the head down to rest on the table, but it's not working now. Any ideas on how difficult this will be to repair and if I can find parts?
Thanks
Also, the gear that tilts the head must have gotten broken when I moved it. It worked when I moved the head down to rest on the table, but it's not working now. Any ideas on how difficult this will be to repair and if I can find parts?
Thanks
Cruzan80
Well-known member
For the knee, make sure the gibs are not locked to the column. Some makes have certain gib spots with a handle to quickly tighten/loosen.
Does the gear for the head work when you help it lift, or is it completely stripped? It is a lot of weight to tilt on its own. Make sure you loosen the locking bolts for that as well.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
If the gibs are locked to the column, the handle won't turn, correct?
It's completely stripped. I loosened the locking bolts.
Cruzan80
Well-known member
The handle should be able to wiggle, with the gibs locked (backlash in screw). But not fully rotate (around-n-around). If that is the case, probably something stripped with the gearing inside it, or worst case the elevator screw has a stripped spot.
Sorry to hear about the head gear. IIRC, taking the head off is generally a two-person job, due to weight and balance. Maybe take the motor off first, to help lighten it?
I have also seen somewhere a device that mounted on the table, and went into the spindle to help as a "third hand" to hold the head. They cranked the table up, unbolted the head, then were able to pull the slide back leaving the head "attached" to the table. But that only works if you can raise/lower the table...
Sorry to hear about the head gear. IIRC, taking the head off is generally a two-person job, due to weight and balance. Maybe take the motor off first, to help lighten it?
I have also seen somewhere a device that mounted on the table, and went into the spindle to help as a "third hand" to hold the head. They cranked the table up, unbolted the head, then were able to pull the slide back leaving the head "attached" to the table. But that only works if you can raise/lower the table...
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Correct. The shaft drives bevel gears that drive the the jacking screw.
So either the gear is stripped or the key has sheared?
Cruzan80
Well-known member
We were typing at the same time. Thanks for thinking of the key sharing, forgot to mention as another possibility.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
Ok, so I know the Comet mill is a Bridgeport clone, but does anyone know what % parts are normally identical? 20%? 90%? I'm just wondering how difficult it will be to source parts.
Thanks
Thanks
Cruzan80
Well-known member
Generally 90+%. Most of the gears and such are designed with the same engineering principles, and sources from the same B2B gear manufacturers.
So for things like the head gear, or the table raise, you are fine.
Some of the custom castings may be a bit different, but I haven't run into much, if any (table locks in different spots, handles slightly different, etc). The only example I know of offhand is the X lead screw doesn't naturally accept a geared BP feed (which was discontinued 20+yrs before the Comet was made). Will need a small adapter made, and drill a hole for a shear pin.
So for things like the head gear, or the table raise, you are fine.
Some of the custom castings may be a bit different, but I haven't run into much, if any (table locks in different spots, handles slightly different, etc). The only example I know of offhand is the X lead screw doesn't naturally accept a geared BP feed (which was discontinued 20+yrs before the Comet was made). Will need a small adapter made, and drill a hole for a shear pin.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
90% is good. Thanks for the info.
Cruzan80
Well-known member
Welcome. Generally, it was worth it to reverse engineer most of the things to accept off the shelf components, rather than redesign for a custom one off.
Remember, they were not making their own gears most of the time, and most gears have a set standard for pitch, pressure angle, bevels generally align to 45's, etc. Just like Bridgeport wasn't making their own bearings, but making something that could take a rpe-designed piece.
Otherwise, I have found that some of the SHCS sizes or set screws may be a bit different size/drive type from watching H&M videos vs mine, or there will be some in a slightly different spot on an exterior plate, etc. Spitballing on the 90% number, but MOST is probably more fair.
Remember, they were not making their own gears most of the time, and most gears have a set standard for pitch, pressure angle, bevels generally align to 45's, etc. Just like Bridgeport wasn't making their own bearings, but making something that could take a rpe-designed piece.
Otherwise, I have found that some of the SHCS sizes or set screws may be a bit different size/drive type from watching H&M videos vs mine, or there will be some in a slightly different spot on an exterior plate, etc. Spitballing on the 90% number, but MOST is probably more fair.
Personally I would be cautious about investing a lot of money into a machine that has the problems you have encountered. You could be throwing good money after bad. Parts are not cheap for milling machines. Ask me how I know. You might find out that what seemed like a good deal wasn't the case. Buyer beware.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
alfadan
Well-known member
Probably a sheared key on the bevel gears of the knee or if it's built like a bp, the set screw loosend up and the bevel gears unmeshed. The head tilt mechanism is very weak and the shaft you put a wrench on sheared inside the head. You don't have to take head off but buy or build something to be able to use the table to pull it away from the ram.
I just repaired mine so when you get there I can steer ya wrong lol.
I just repaired mine so when you get there I can steer ya wrong lol.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
If you want to save space over a big "floor standing" horizontal bandsaw, there is a class of nice benchtop bandsaws that are really nice given their size. The Italian made Femi/Hemsaw series with the auto* and manual downfeed are the standards. Dake also sells corresponding models that may actually be made by Femi (or may not). And there are Asian models with similar features. Saw blade.com sells their "trajan" series saws which seem nice for the price.For those who asked why I needed/wanted mill, I just brought my '71 AMC Javelin road race project to the shop last weekend (made room for it when I sold the Cat 977). Being an AMC, there's not a lot of aftermarket support, so it will be helpful to have the ability to fabricate stuff.
And then there's my '69 Bronco barn find project; that made it to the shop about two weeks ago. It will be a mild build, at least for now, but if I end up doing full-width axles and such, I'll need to be able to fab stuff for that, too.
I would also like to be able to do some Second Amendment stuff - maybe get set up and licensed to do silencers?
I still need a lathe, but what about a horizontal metal cutting bandsaw? I've never used one, but they sure take up a lot of space, and I'm running short on space already.
Right now, for cutting metal, I have a Sawzall, grinders with cutoff wheels, a Milwaukee portaband on a SWAG stand, oxyacetylene torch, a Milwaukee M18 metal cutting circular saw, and a larger abrasive chop saw.
I have a Femi ABS ng120XL and it's among the most used tools in my shop.
*they are not true auto downfeed, and in fact not even hydraulic assist gravity downfeed. They are essentially a spring clutch mechanism.
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
For when you need to throw a hole in something while the mill is set up for something else.I'm going to kick the anthill...
Why would anyone need a drill press if they have a mill?
I like drilling on my Bridgeport, and I’m never tempted to make the (dangerous) mistake of freehand drilling. But setups usually require indicating in and once done accuracy gets undermined when having to change to a different setup for an hole and then back again. If all I need is a clearance hole that needs no more accuracy than, say, 1/64”, a drill press will do that inside a minute, including cleaning and putting the drill away afterwards.
And then there’s the occasional need to drill holes in wood. That’s a no-no in a Bridgeport, as far a I’m concerned.
I sill use my good vintage Delta press a lot, and even use my craptastic import drill press for things like drum sanding. If I didn’t have a drill press, I’d be hand-drilling holes in parts held in a bench vise using a power drill too often.
Rick “holes happen” Denney
alfadan
Well-known member
Ha, I was poking fun at the somewhat intense discussion earlier in the thread about how 'pointless' having both machines is.
I agree why not have both if you can. I usually keep a chamfer tool in mine for deburr.
@bulletpruf A good friend of mine likes to say "Sometimes FREE isn't cheap enough" As mentioned, might be a good time to re-evalutate the benefit of continuing to repair your mill. Perhaps when you tear into it a bit more and assess what needs to be done.
Ron
Ron
OP
bulletpruf
Well-known member
You're preaching to the choir, Ron; I just got rid of my free 20-ton Caterpillar 977 track loader because I couldn't afford to fix it.
Anyway, that's my plan - do some disassembly and see what I can figure out. Having said that, unless parts aren't available or prohibitively expensive, I think I'll still be in good shape.
alfadan
Well-known member
I really doubt either repair are going to cost very much. Other than the head internals, these are not complicated machines.
On the head tilt problem, you let it down for transport, so it worked but the little shaft holding the worm gear is not really up to tilting all that weight back to vertical without manually helping take up the weight.
The shaft maybe the same dimensions as a BP, and I bought it for 30 bucks. If not, one could be made very simply.
On the head tilt problem, you let it down for transport, so it worked but the little shaft holding the worm gear is not really up to tilting all that weight back to vertical without manually helping take up the weight.
The shaft maybe the same dimensions as a BP, and I bought it for 30 bucks. If not, one could be made very simply.
Or just get the head back to vertical with an engine hoist, snug it up a little and Tram it in with a soft hammer. Repair it later. Not ideal but doable. Then focus on the knee. I agree it’s probably a sheer pin. Might need to pull the table. Good chance to clean it up and make sure the lube system is working. And you will already have the engine hoist set up. Could probably be back in business in a day.
whateg01
Well-known member
Should be able to get to the bevel gear by sliding the covers forward. My Bridgeport clone had the set screw loose so the gears weren't engaging. I've never nodded the head on mine. If you can get it trammed in, lock it down and you might never need to move it.