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Burns Projects that will never be finished

sanddan

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I'd love to get bucks of inserts, especially from sandvik! those r790 inserts are $50 a piece

so i been wanting some extra long box end wrenches for fixture clamps and some other stuff. usually use a long ratchet but sometimes can fit it in there and my wrenches arent long. was gonna get some snap on ones but work is slow so i decided to just make my own. wasnt really too focused on them and wasnt concerned about them being perfect so they have some mistakes. one of the i had the endmill get sucked in a corner and basically left no wall thickness and it bend once i tried to use it so i need to remake that one. the other one tho i put all my weight on and felt very sturdy. had a little flex but i wont be putting a cheater bar or anything on it so it will be fine.

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What material do you use for tools like the wrench? Are they heat treated?
 
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trytochaseme

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made an extra long handle for the ratchet head off my torque wrench so it's just a long ratchet. this has given me more ideas now so stay tuned

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trytochaseme

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Facebook marketplace score. .5-1.0 gauge pins. Mabye 30 missing. got for $120d8abe554f21646653a126e600476dad6.jpg

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Kevin54

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ZFuCN0K.jpg


Although the webs look cool in the wrench, they are not practical for applying any heavy torque to things. Beefier is better.
 
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trytochaseme

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honestly my goal was to make some cool looking wrenches that didn't look like everything else. I wasn't trying to make the strongest ones. I realize I could definitely make them stronger I I wanted but I have been using them and they have been working very well.

got going on some hammers today. larger one has a brass face on one end and delrin on the other. they are replaceable. I need to to take it back apart and remove some more material from the head as it's pretty heavy still. about 60oz.

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little hammer needs a little more work. I have a small OSCA about this exact size and love it so basically just copied it's size. works awesome for when you need to stamp something or works well for dowels and stuff too.

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gte718p

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ZFuCN0K.jpg


Although the webs look cool in the wrench, they are not practical for applying any heavy torque to things. Beefier is better.

Not true, unless you bring a bunch of caveats. Hammer or wrench are most likely going to fail in bending. The highest strength and the failure point are on the outside surface. It is the whole theory of I beams and tube.

Where is may be true is if you don't leave enough material in the web and rail and induce a torsion along the axis of the handle or the outside edges are not strong enough to stay in position. In the imaginary physics world they edges could be infinitely thin and have full strength. In the real world loads are never perfect. The other time it would not be true is if you thing it is going to fail in shear. Then shear area/ IE cross section is important.

If you do manage to kink the handle or load it improperly , all bets are off and the webing areas will fail catastrophically. If you don't abuse your tools it should be a problem.
 
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Kevin54

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Not true, unless you bring a bunch of caveats. Hammer or wrench are most likely going to fail in bending. The highest strength and the failure point are on the outside surface. It is the whole theory of I beams and tube.

Where is may be true is if you don't leave enough material in the web and rail and induce a torsion along the axis of the handle or the outside edges are not strong enough to stay in position. In the imaginary physics world they edges could be infinitely thin and have full strength. In the real world loads are never perfect. The other time it would not be true is if you thing it is going to fail in shear. Then shear area/ IE cross section is important.

If you do manage to kink the handle or load it improperly , all bets are off and the webing areas will fail catastrophically. If you don't abuse your tools it should be a problem.

So let me ask this.....You contradict what I say, give an explanation, then say if it bends, all bets are off? That makes absolutely no sense at all. :headscrat I'm not trying to argue with you to make it clear, but damn dude. I do know a little what I'm talking about. I've worked over 30+ years in tool design, tool & die, and as a liaison M.E. multiple times in the aircraft industry. Not trying to discredit you, but don't discredit me either.:beer:
 
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trytochaseme

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was hoping to come up with something better then the handle that twist to tighten. i guess i shouldnt say better as they work very well im just not a big fan. i turned the shoulder bolt down so once the clamp is on it stays in place. i will have a thumb head on the bolt so its easier to turn but it works as is pretty well. need to get some flat head bolts for the clamp aswell as put chamfers all over it.

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little family shot so far

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guy i work with lives in his van and travels alot. he needed a cover for his new heater system in it and asked me to make something for him. this is the final product

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got my gage pins in my box. waiting for foam to come in and ill be doing all custom cut outs for all of them

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gte718p

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So let me ask this.....You contradict what I say, give an explanation, then say if it bends, all bets are off? That makes absolutely no sense at all. :headscrat I'm not trying to argue with you to make it clear, but damn dude. I do know a little what I'm talking about. I've worked over 30+ years in tool design, tool & die, and as a liaison M.E. multiple times in the aircraft industry. Not trying to discredit you, but don't discredit me either.:beer:

Sorry dude, but your blanket statement is patently wrong. If used as a wrench and the force is pure in plane rotation, his webbed wrench has the exact same strength as a solid bar of the same size.

I did acknowledge edge cases where your statement is true. If it is not strong enough and it bends it will fail catastrophically vice a nice slow bend. That doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Same reason all 240 lbs of me can stand on a beer can, but if you touch it with your toe it collapses instantly and violently. If there is not enough webbing it can lose form like the beer can. It is also the reason my roll bar is made from tube not solid bar stock.

Sure in industry where the wrench may be used as a pry bar, cotter pin, or hammer shear beef equals reliability. There are lots of edge cases where what you said could be true. However for a machinist who is likely going to use his tools properly, the OPs design is entirely valid and your blanket statement is wrong.

M.E., Multiple masters, 18+ years industry consultant in tools and manufacturing processes. Sorry you took offense.
 

gte718p

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I will add on design suggestion. I have argued with Keith that the design is fine and I think it is, but I would add a little webbing under where you hold the wrench’s.

Just by nature of being human you are not going to apply a point load at the end of the wrench. There is a compression load on the beam you press down on. That compression could cause you to loose your idea beam shape and changes the calculations. Adding a piece of webbing under the “handle” dramatically reduces the chance of changing geometry.

The wrenched look like they may be a little long unsupported. The tap wrench looks ideal.
 
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trytochaseme

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i have been using the wrenches and they have been working. when i remake them i am going to increase the wall thickness a bit but i really havent had any problems with them. i dont use them to put alot of torque on stuff. only use them when i dont have clearance to fit my ratchet in there.



bored out the larger hammer more to reduce some weight as it was way to much. turned down the inserts so the OD matches and rounded them off.

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heres a group shot. some more sockets done. have material cut to do a whole set. got the main couple sizes i use done. slowly will do the rest when i have time. when they are all done ill engrave them and get them heat treated. they are made out of some A2 bars we have

yCE45Hg.jpg
 

Kevin54

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I will add on design suggestion. I have argued with Keith that the design is fine and I think it is, but I would add a little webbing under where you hold the wrench’s.

Just by nature of being human you are not going to apply a point load at the end of the wrench. There is a compression load on the beam you press down on. That compression could cause you to loose your idea beam shape and changes the calculations. Adding a piece of webbing under the “handle” dramatically reduces the chance of changing geometry.

The wrenched look like they may be a little long unsupported. The tap wrench looks ideal.

And I'll still argue that you are wrong. Look at the pic and tell me where the failure will happen. And if you can't see it, it will fail right under the head of the wrench. Pretty is not always practical.

yCE45Hg.jpg
 

Kevin54

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Sorry dude, but your blanket statement is patently wrong. If used as a wrench and the force is pure in plane rotation, his webbed wrench has the exact same strength as a solid bar of the same size.

I did acknowledge edge cases where your statement is true. If it is not strong enough and it bends it will fail catastrophically vice a nice slow bend. That doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Same reason all 240 lbs of me can stand on a beer can, but if you touch it with your toe it collapses instantly and violently. If there is not enough webbing it can lose form like the beer can. It is also the reason my roll bar is made from tube not solid bar stock.

Sure in industry where the wrench may be used as a pry bar, cotter pin, or hammer shear beef equals reliability. There are lots of edge cases where what you said could be true. However for a machinist who is likely going to use his tools properly, the OPs design is entirely valid and your blanket statement is wrong.

M.E., Multiple masters, 18+ years industry consultant in tools and manufacturing processes. Sorry you took offense.

I take it then that you set behind a desk and never get out in the real world to see how actual machinist use tools. Just tightening down the bolts on a machinist vise takes some torque to insure the vise doesn't move during machining operations. And if using a wrench like that to adjust your tram bolts, ram bolts on a conventional mill, it might work once or twice. But just as soon as it flexes any near the head, it's done. And I'm not taking offense, but a machinist uses his tools like a mechanic uses his tools. A 3/4" wrench better be able to take some abuse. And no, multiple masters doesn't impress me one bit. I don't play that ********.
 

gte718p

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I'll stop arguing with Kevin and let the thread get back to machining. Just to show everyone else what we are arguing about I did a quick FEA of the wrench webbing and solid. You will notice they both came out the exact same. They both fail at the same point with the same load. I don't have enough information on the OPs wrench to actually figure out how much torque you could put on either one. Once you reach the yield strength of the material the failure modes are very different.

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And I'm not taking offense, but a machinist uses his tools like a mechanic uses his tools. A 3/4" wrench better be able to take some abuse. And no, multiple masters doesn't impress me one bit. I don't play that ********.

I don't know every machinist, but I grew up in machine shops and was trained by some incredible people. I'm a hobbyist at best in the machining world, but I currently employ a master machinist in my consulting job and had two machinists in my previous government job. You would be run out of any of their shops for using a wrench as a hammer. There is a reason there is a tool called a machinists hammer. The OP made a fine example. I also design tools, tooling, and processes for industry. I know a machine operator can abuse anything. I also don't need to impress you. companies pay me a lot of money for that education and experience.

Back to the original topic.
 

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trytochaseme

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Thanks for the fea analysis. I was gonna try to whip one up yesterday but didn't have time. Mine is definitely thinner but it's been plenty strong for me. I think the chamfer makes it appear even thinner in pics then it is in person.

Some sockets in progress6e1b9f282968765d7a26c806f0b92fc7.jpg

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Kevin54

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I'll stop arguing with Kevin and let the thread get back to machining. Just to show everyone else what we are arguing about I did a quick FEA of the wrench webbing and solid. You will notice they both came out the exact same. They both fail at the same point with the same load. I don't have enough information on the OPs wrench to actually figure out how much torque you could put on either one. Once you reach the yield strength of the material the failure modes are very different.

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I don't know every machinist, but I grew up in machine shops and was trained by some incredible people. I'm a hobbyist at best in the machining world, but I currently employ a master machinist in my consulting job and had two machinists in my previous government job. You would be run out of any of their shops for using a wrench as a hammer. There is a reason there is a tool called a machinists hammer. The OP made a fine example. I also design tools, tooling, and processes for industry. I know a machine operator can abuse anything. I also don't need to impress you. companies pay me a lot of money for that education and experience.

Back to the original topic.

And on your drawing you show thicker sides, than on the OP's wrench. Huge difference. I'm not going to play you show me your **** and I'll show you mine. I've worked with some of the best in the aircraft industry, and I've called out some of the best with their analysis on their designs, and was correct. So I don't play that game.

As far as a machinist/master machinist.....read back through anything I posted and show me where I said to use a wrench as a hammer. I didn't. I have thousands of dollars worth of machinist tools, both made and bought. All precision. BTW....I also have hammers. Your term "machinist hammer" is a misnomer. A ball pein can be used for the same thing. I have plastric tipped hammers, rubber deadblow hammers, and various size ball peins. Wrenches are used to tighten and loosen bolts. If a machinist is working on dies, he best have some wrenches that will hold up.

Again, this has nothing against the OP, what it has all to do with though is machining and the design of the tool. The OP is a relatively new machinist that has some cool designs, but also some impractical designs, that I was pointing out. You are a desk jockey that has been around machinist and machine shops, and are a hobby machinist. There is a huge difference between that and the real world. And Finite Analysis, is not always correct.

As for the OP, I was giving him some good advice. I have trained many machinist to become Tool & Die Makers which is a hard profession to get into. Of the thousands of dollars of tools I still have, I have given away more than that in tools to help ones get started in the profession. I've made parts that others didn't have a clue how to make or were afraid to attempt it. I worked with design engineers every day. I was a desk jockey when I was in Tool Design, and didn't like the desk job. I liked making something out of nothing and putting the parts on something I would never see or afford. I've either made parts or made the tooling for parts for more aircraft than you would ever see. I've made the prototype, then the tooling, then the parts for the Hellfire Missles. I machined the housings for the refueling lights for the F117 Stealth Nighthawks that had a +/-.002 tolerance. I've machined parts for the B-2 Spirits. I've machined the prototypes and made the tooling for the PSU units on commercial aircraft along with the external lighting on the Boeing Aircraft.

So yea, I know a little about design, manufacturing, and tolerances. And one thing I will never do is give someone starting out in the trade any wrong advice. And I'll go up any machinist and will argue my point with any engineer when I see something wrong that can fail. If the OP loves what he does, he can definitely work his way up into a good paying job in T&D which there is a shortage of in the United Stated. But he has to perfect his work, and he has to outshine his coworkers. A hobby machinist / desk jockey that has never worked beside a true machinist day in and day out for 12 hours a day, doesn't have a clue.

Again, no offense to you, and definitely no offense to the OP as he is off to a good start if he truly has the passion for doing what he is doing. But just like in any job, there will always be constructive criticism.:beer:
 

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Kevin54

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All made, and all within .0001 on the angles, sine bars, squares, and vises.
 

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gte718p

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And on your drawing you show thicker sides, than on the OP's wrench. Huge difference.

You continue to miss the point. The failure point is on the surface. The sides can be theoretically be infinity thin. It doesn't matter how wide the wrench is or how thick the top is. The failure point is always in the same place. In the real world there are practical limits to that as it is not an ideal beam, but it is really close.

And FEA is not ever wrong. Our understanding of none relativistic physics has not really changes since the ancient Greeks. It is possible to design a bad model, or make bad assumptions about loads, or use conditions. That doesn't make FEA any less useful or accurate.

In this case FEA is validating a freshman physic or mechanics of materials class. A MechE student would be expected to calculate the force at failure and displacement by hand.

I've either made parts or made the tooling for parts for more aircraft than you would ever see. I've made the prototype, then the tooling, then the parts for the Hellfire Missles. I machined the housings for the refueling lights for the F117 Stealth Nighthawks that had a +/-.002 tolerance. I've machined parts for the B-2 Spirits. I've machined the prototypes and made the tooling for the PSU units on commercial aircraft along with the external lighting on the Boeing Aircraft.

And yet with all that experience they have yet to call you to design any of those parts. They consistently call on over educated desk jockeys like me. :)
 

Ryan

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Fellas... disagree... don't argue and call each other names... it sort of ruins both of your points.
 
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trytochaseme

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for what its worth i just took the box end. cranked down on a nut then took my torque wrench to see how much torque i would need to get the nut to move. not a perfect test by any means but atleast gives an idea. the wrench felt solid at about 70ftlbs

AIZqCpH.jpg



once again i wasnt trying to make the worlds strongest wrench. i wanted a longer box end for a couple sizes and decided to make them look cool. they work for what i need and do what i wanted
 

Kevin54

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And yet with all that experience they have yet to call you to design any of those parts. They consistently call on over educated desk jockeys like me. :)[/QUOTE]

No, they call me to design the tooling to make those parts, then manufacture the first prototypes for production.
 

Bears Fan

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yCE45Hg.jpg


Okay! I want a set now :pimpflash Awesome design on the tools, who makes their own sockets? that is sweeeeeeeet! You need to make a cool tool board now to display them on, they are too purdy to put in a toolbox :beer:
 
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king nero

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You continue to miss the point. The failure point is on the surface. The sides can be theoretically be infinity thin. It doesn't matter how wide the wrench is or how thick the top is. The failure point is always in the same place. In the real world there are practical limits to that as it is not an ideal beam, but it is really close.

The surface cannot fail, as failing is caused by shear mechanism, which is not possible on a surface.

The moment will be transferred to two equal forces on both stems of the handle (one tension, one compression). The cross section of the stems will determine the maximum force they can handle.

I agree with Kevin. I'd start with a full handle near the ends, and than tapering of to two parallel sides.

For what it's worth, I do see a promising machinist. Top notch work.
 
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trytochaseme

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current big project id my 4runner. bought it 2 years ago as a beater with a heater when my VW blew up. now i really love the truck, 305k miles and its running and shifting solid but frame is swiss cheese and the suspension is beyond gone. Always had the idea of doing long travel on it. never had a truck before this, im about an hour from the silver lake sand dunes and have been up there with friends plenty of times in their trucks or on my dirt bike. finally time to have a truck of my own to take up there.

Front kit will be a +3.5" on both sides. almost all heims and uniballs. should pull 16" or so of travel up front with some 10" coilovers. Sent the files over to the sheet metal shop to get cut out. just waiting for them to come back

v7FugXO.png


the back is where its gonna get interesting. the back half of the frame is shot. not worth trying to patch so plan is to cut it off little ways behind the firewall and tube frame the whole rear end.

working on some billet 48" trailing arms. 1 1/4 heims

0a8JQn0.png
 

bullnerd

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Whaa? No billet a-arms? lol!

I saw the trailing arm on IG. I was wondering what it was for.

Should be a fun project.
 
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trytochaseme

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Whaa? No billet a-arms? lol!

I saw the trailing arm on IG. I was wondering what it was for.

Should be a fun project.

for now boxed upper and lower control arms but do have this billet one in the works that ill do down the road when i do a custom spindle

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heres the latest trialing arm design

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1" uniballs for frame mounts, coilover, and bypass mount. 1.25 heim for axle mount.

heres rough drawing so far for frame. just a rough idea. need to make alot of changes

a30vUGr.png
 

Bigblue&Goldie

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Your posts make me wish I went into machining. Keep them coming, it's cool to see a younger guy knocking out the stuff I'd make if I had the ability and resources.
 

lilscorpion

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for now boxed upper and lower control arms but do have this billet one in the works that ill do down the road when i do a custom spindle

Subscribed and looking forward to updates on whatever you machine.

Regarding your tools - nice parts. Love the design and carrying them theme though the various tools. Picture of all of them together looks like something that you'd print and put into a frame. Regarding the debate - tools made for you can work or fail in the quiet and private of your own projects and workspace. I've built much uglier wrenches out of cold rolled steel to perform very simple tasks in one-off situations and they worked just fine for what I needed. Some were just welded together pieces of scrap metal, others were one piece machined (though none as nice as what you're making). Some of my home-made tools failed or became loose but I didn't care, I just made another. #mytoolsmyrules :)
 
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