Buying a TIG machine - Seeking advice

[Adam McLaughlin]

Hi Guys

Looking into buying a TIG machine, seeking advice

I would like to weld:

Jewelry ( fine stuff )
Air intake tubing
Aluminum bits / manifold, repair, etc.
Stainless Steel projects

I presently own a Miller 210 MIG box. Used MIG welding for years. Worked at a Fab shop in college, but that was 2003-2005

I pulled 100 A 220 V into the garage when I bought the house. Have several 50 A sockets in the wall fed with 6/3.

What would you all recommend for a machine? Like the Miller line, but not closed minded to alternatives

Liquid cooled torch? Yes / No ?
How much would I be looking to spend?
What is considered a definite YES or a definite NO?

At the same fab shop we had a SyncroWave 250 DX but I only saw it fired up 2/3 times in a year. Machine was pretty spiffy but I wonder about its current draw if used at home. The plate on the front of the box even says that at 208 V it pulls 90-ish A, at 230 V it pulls 80-ish A, and at 460 3 Phase something near 40 A. That's a lot of current!

Please weigh in everyone

Adam

 

[zkling]

What is your budget? Ultimately I would recommend a miller dynasty 200 or larger full DX model with matched cooler and a few difference sized water cooled torches. Make sure you are sitting down when you price them out. They are a top of the line inverter machine. Their low end and overall advanced arc controls are well suited to thin materials especially stainless.

What is the maximum thickness you plan to weld?

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/product.php?model=M00118

Fully setup you are probably looking at ~$4-5K but I am not up on current prices.

The syncrowave 250 is a dang fine machine, I own and run one, lots of arc time on it. The one I have is an early 90's model. Lets just say if a weld happens to come out bad I can't blame the machine. Although they can do just about anything I think you could really benefit from the low end arc adjustment parameters that the inverter dynasty has to offer. Kinda like a 10 speed vs a 21 speed bike. They both will do the same thing, one will require a bit more training than the other to equal them out.

One other thing, I wouldn't worry about power usage at home. Unless you plan on welding 4+ days a week, the power usage is really going to be minimal.

Also are you sure it was a syncrowave 250 at work? I am like 99% sure that all syncro 250's are single phase only machines. I run mine on a 50amp (IIRC) breaker, never have an issue unless I go above ~250 amps on AC . Mine is the non PFC model, FYI. If you do look for an older syncrowave try to find one without PFC in it.

 

[AndyA]

I've only ever used Miller for tig equipment so I'm biased.

Liquid cooled is nice. The torches are smaller. Air cooled tops out at around 200amps, and that's with a limited duty cycle. If you plan on using higher amps, you'll want liquid cooled. Aluminum needs amps. On the cheap, you can use a liquid cooled torch hooked up to your faucet. The waste water goes down the drain. Proper coolers start around $550 for new ones.

The sync250 is a nice machine. The spec sheet shows a power draw of 96 amps at 230volts when putting out 250 amps of welding current.
I considered buying a sync250, but bought the Dynasty 200dx instead. They are about the same cost for new ones (www.cyberweld.com shows the sync250 for $3115 and the dyn200 for $3230). Note this is the machine only. You'll also need torch, pedal, hoses, tungsten, spare cups, collets, etc,etc. Probably another $500 to $1000 to get nicely equipped. Add more for liquid cooled with the proper cooler. The total liquid cooled kit for the dyn200 is right at $5000.

I'd probably get the dyn200 over the sync250. The sync is more machine for the money, but it's 400-something lbs and ***** electricity like a sponge. The dyn200 tops out at 200 amps (110 less than the sync250), but only weights 45lbs and draw 15.87 amps at 230 volts and 150 amps welding current. The dyn200 can also operate on 115 volts (limited output current and duty cycle) for portable operation to places without 230v. The dyn200 also has waveforms, pulser, adjustable frequency on AC and other bells and whistles the sync200 doesn't have (you can buy an add on pulser module I believe). I don't use the bells and whistles on my dyn200 so I wouldn't place much importance on this.

I have the coolmate1 with my dyn200. It's noisy as hell. I've heard of reliability problems, but I haven't had any troubles myself. Pay a little extra for the coolmate3 or something else.

 

[AndyA]

Also are you sure it was a syncrowave 250 at work? I am like 99% sure that all syncro 250's are single phase only machines. I run mine on a 50amp (IIRC) breaker, never have an issue unless I go above ~250 amps on AC . Mine is the non PFC model, FYI. If you do look for an older syncrowave try to find one without PFC in it.

I also think all the syncrowaves are single phase. The OP mentioned 208v, so I assume they're running on single phase split from three phase.

Interesting to know the sync250 is relatively happy on only a 50 amp breaker. Does AC pull less or more current than DC? Most of my tig work is on steel so I rarely use AC. There are times I'd like another 100 amps, or more duty cycle at 200 amps. My shop has only a 100amp service.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Great Info! Enjoying all of it

What is a fair price to pay for something like this second hand?

How about an older model, like the Lincoln IdealArc 300?
I have seen these on CL, not sure what to offer. Some people tell me to pass, others say offer $500, other people tell me that the Lincoln is worth about 2 K.

How about
Tell me about the low end boxes
Econotig - what is it good for? What is it not good for?

I have played with our Synchrowave 250 DX, but that's the only box that I have any time on.

Which of these machines do fine material the best? Say if I want to tig up Jewelry? Soda cans? Womens chain necklaces?

Adam

 

[zkling]

I also think all the syncrowaves are single phase. The OP mentioned 208v, so I assume they're running on single phase split from three phase.

That is a good point about splitting it off the most likely incoming 3 phase. Still I can't picture the OP seeing a 3 phase rating on the syncrowave power plate.

Interesting to know the sync250 is relatively happy on only a 50 amp breaker. Does AC pull less or more current than DC? Most of my tig work is on steel so I rarely use AC. There are times I'd like another 100 amps, or more duty cycle at 200 amps. My shop has only a 100amp service.

I usually just keep mine set at ~150amps and it does 99% of the stuff I do with it. Mostly <0.125" steel and aluminum. Only a few times I have run it past 250amps. I don't have a cooler so I primarily use a WP17 air cooled torch, but I do have a WP20 and WP18 that came with the machine when I bought it (came with a bunch O stuff, got it super cheap). When using those I just run tap water, so it is a bit of a pain to hook up.

Anyway, I just wanted to see what 310amps of AC tig looked like under a #10 hood. I floored the pedal it struck and arc and then clicked the breaker. It will run for a ~60 seconds at ~250amp dial setting (analog controls) maxed out on AC, and quite a bit longer on DC. For a given output AC takes more input IIRC. Don't quote me on why as I don't remember but I believe it has to do with the HF and balance while in AC mode When it gets rectified for DC, something, uhmmm, I really don't remember, sorry.

As I mentioned earlier, mine is an early 90's model, '91 or '92 IIRC, all analog, basic machine, no aux meters or the like. It does not have the PFC's in it, so theoretically it does take more power at max output than a PFC model, then again I have heard guys having issues throwing 40-50 amp breakers with the PFC's while just idling. For a home shop I think they are a determinant personally.

What machine do you currently have now? I think it would be pretty hard to overwork a syncro 250. The older ones like mine have the constantly running fan, not the fan on demand like the newer ones. If I planned on a heavy diet of 225+ amp ac tig with it, I would probably put in a 70+amp breaker, or just hard wire it to a 100+amp breaker. I bought the syncrowave years after I had an OLD AC225. So the welder ciruit was really setup for the 50amp requirement of the AC225. I was worried about the 50 amp breaker based on what alot of the published literature on the machine says, but it is has been fine for the past ~7 years so. Is it optimal, probably not, but if it ain't broke don't fix it. Plus I really hate playing in the electrical panel.

Most of my tig work is on steel so I rarely use AC.

Funny, most of my tig work is on aluminum. That is what payed for the machine.

 

[ADSR]

I have a dynasty DX 200. It's a crazy machine, but it's not cheap. You can dial the arc in to a lazer beam for rine stuff.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Work box

Sorry, its from my IPhone but you all get the idea

 

[AndyA]

Econotig - what is it good for? What is it not good for?

I used to have an econotig before I bought the dyn200. The econotig has a few things going against it. It tops out at 150 amps, and then only at 20% duty cycle. It's low end is around 30 amps. This is going to be too much current for any small work like jewelry. There are no fancy features. There's no pulser. The AC is fixed at 60Hz without balance or width controls. I wouldn't bother with one unless it was in good condition and only a couple hundred bucks. The low duty cycle and inability to weld thin sheet metal were the main reasons I sold mine.

The dyn200 goes all the way down to 1 amp (aka pretty much nothing). The sync250 goes down to 3 amps. These will let you do small work without blowing holes. You'll probably need to buy small tungsten (and collets, etc, etc) to keep the current density high enough to keep a stable arc. Try running that low of a current on a bigger tungsten and you'll have a devil of a time keeping the arc lit. Sharpening to a finer point will help. I don't have much experience with the pulser, but it's supposed to help on fine/thin work. You get a pulse of higher current to keep the arc lit, but the average current is low to keep the total heat input down.

 

[zkling]

What is a fair price to pay for something like this second hand?

Varies greatly on specific unit, accessories, condition, hours on unit, location. Are you talking a Dynasty machine? Honestly I really don't know in today's market I have not been following the welding market for a few years. Hop over on welding web and see what they think. As much as I like the inverter machines, not sure if I would own one as a personal machine. The only reason I could afford the syncrowave 250 is because I got it cheap, super cheap (<$450 full setup).

How about an older model, like the Lincoln IdealArc 300?
I have seen these on CL, not sure what to offer. Some people tell me to pass, others say offer $500, other people tell me that the Lincoln is worth about 2 K.

Back to the 10 speed vs 21 speed bike analogy, actually those would be more like a 3 speed bike. They were/are workhorses. I cut my tig teeth on an old Miller 330a/bp (miller equivalent IIRC). They are sine wave machines, not too good on the low end, however they sent missions to the moon with no issues, so. They are more than capable machines, just don't have all the nice features of the newer inverters. Upside is they are cheap (should be <~$800 ready to go) and dang near bullet proof. Down side being they are super heavy, hard to move, super expensive to repair if need be and are pretty feature limited, especially on the AC side.

How about
Tell me about the low end boxes
Econotig - what is it good for? What is it not good for?

Given it's weight it would probably be a good paperweight or a nifty boat anchor. Seriously not a fan of those at all. Guy down the street has one, VERY limited machine yet I end up welding alot of stuff for him. I would much rather have one of the new diversions or the older idelarc 300/300 before that thing.

It is just what it sounds, "Econo" Millers attempt for a budget, entry level tig machine aimed at the home and DIY guys.

I have played with our Synchrowave 250 DX, but that's the only box that I have any time on.

Adam

Great machine. The only step up from that would be something from the dynasty series. That syncro can do ~98% of all tig work out there.

Which of these machines do fine material the best? Say if I want to tig up Jewelry? Soda cans? Womens chain necklaces?

Adam

If you really want to get into jewelery you are probably going to have to look at a gas torch or a specific very low amp welder. I don't know anything about welding jewelery so.... I can't imagine gold filler being cheap though. I think there are a few guys on here that do jewelery work, hopefully they will chime in. Pretty sure they use small oxy/acc torches though.

Soada cans and the like, well just about any AC tig machine itself can do it, more depends on the operator. The dynasty would make it the easiest, older sine wave machine the hardest. I have welded razor blades, pop cans and other novelty items with my syncro. It's amusing, but I can't really see a practical purpose other than to show off.

 

[MBeaty]

I also am a happy owner of an older Syncrowave 250 with a water cooled torch setup. My father owns a Syncro 180 with an air cooled torch. Either machine can make competent welds, but after using the water cooled setup for a while, the air cooled torch feels stiff and clumsy. The small size of the watercooled torches are awesome. This torch is rated at 250 amps.

If money was no concern, I would probably have bought a larger Dynasty due to some of the fine adjustments that can be made to the arc on it. Unfortunately, it is more difficult to find good prices on used dynasty than on the syncrowave series machines. I picked up mine, with the watercooler, two torch setups, the pedal, a stinger, the ground clamp, and a lot of stainless filler for $1500.

The Syncrowave 250 is large, heavy, and does have some high power demands, but it is bullet proof reliable and with a skilled operator can weld just about anything. If you can I would suggest wiring it up to the machines full rated capability. Due to the large power demands of the machine at full load, it works best having the machine hardwired in, because of the high cost of 100 amp rated plugs.

Some things to look for in a machine.

If it has a watercooler, look for a cooler that has a procon rotary vane pump rather than an oberdorfer geared pump. Mine has the oberdorfer, which is a great pump, but the gears are much louder than the welder itself.

I am not sure what year they switched to fan on demand on the miller machines, but my fan has a temp switch and will not turn on unless it is needed. I rarely have it ever come on. To me the noise of fans is bothersome, so the fan on demand is a plus.

Take a hard look at the accessories that come with the machine, as these will add several hundred dollars to the cost. Mine came with an 18 series torch and a 25 series pencil torch. I ended up buying a nice weldtec 25 series torch for the smaller size and longer leads, but this added quite a bit of cost to get all of the various cup sizes, collets, and caps I needed.

I think the power cost between a dynasty and a syncrowave are mostly insignificant for home use. I personally like the simplicity of a transformer machine considering it spends most of its time sitting. The less electronics sitting in the garage the better.

Another thing about the inverter machines is they have many more settings than a transformer machine. This will allow you to really dial in an arc, which is especially great for aluminum and other non ferrous metals. With wanting to make very small delicate welds, this would probably be useful to you. On the other hand, it can be a little overwhelming and it is possible to actually do harm to the weld beads if the settings are not right. For home use, this is probably not an issue.

For a water cooled torch one nice thing about the transformer machines is that most of them have a power plug built in the machine for the cooler. This will automatically start the water cooler when the machine is turned on. Most of the inverter machines do not have this, so you have to make sure the water cooler is turned on, or the torch leads will get cooked quite quickly.

 

[t100]

unless you are doing industrial work running the welder hard everyday, get them Inverters.

Miller, Lincoln, Esab all make good machines. also I've known people running the Asian import as hobbyists for years.

if budget is limited, look into the Everlast machines and get a water cooler.

my home setup.

 

[brianpgriset]

I opted to a Syncrowave 200 over a Dynasty because I just couldn't bring myself to spend $4000+ on a hobbyist welder. I could've bought a Chinese inverter but I was only going to buy miller.

The syncro waves are very capable machines. I just did some 16ga aluminum tube for a charge pipe on my truck turbo this weekend and it welded just fine on that thin aluminum.

 

[t100]

HTP machines ain't bad either. and their customer service has been top notch all the way.

 

[BD1]

Big bucks for a Dynasty. The MILLER 200 syncro may work for you. i guess it depends on how many bells and whistles you want or need.
I have a MILLER 180 SD that's great. Turn machine and tank on, set heat, push pedal to start welding. Got the whole set up [ no tank ] with stick leads too for $ 800.00.

 

[zkling]

I also am a happy owner of an older Syncrowave 250 with a water cooled torch setup.

Nice machine Youres even has the fancy, optional analog volt and amp meters. Ooooo.
Fan on demand would be nice as without machine does make quite a bit of noise and moves lots of air just idling. I wonder if they can be converted.

If it has a watercooler, look for a cooler that has a procon rotary vane pump rather than an oberdorfer geared pump. Mine has the oberdorfer, which is a great pump, but the gears are much louder than the welder itself.

THIS is VERY GOOD information. I mentioned above that I currently don't have a water cooler. Well I did then had to sell it, so I currently don't own one. It was an older vertical Miller Watermate 1. It too had the older orberdorfer gear pump in it. Well I bought it untested, really cheap. Turned out the pump was shot. If you want to talk abot expensive parts call opberdorfer. A rebuild kit was ~$135 and an entire pump was $275+ IIRC

Just for some info. They can be converted to a procon pump. However they usually need to be reverse rotation of what is normal for the procon pumps. Procon will build you the proper pump for ~$85 and will bolt right on in place of the orberdorfer. So it can work, just looking at ~$100 to get it there. I was trying to decide between the rebuild kit or a new procon, went with the procon and am happy I did. When I sold the cooler the new owner was happy I converted it as a procon rebuild (if needed) is really cheap in comparison.

For the limited water cooled torch use I do now, the garden hose system works OK. If you really wanted a cooler, I would build one out of an old soda carbonation system. As soon as I find a cheap carbonator this is what I plan on doing.

Tig coolers are extremely overpriced for whats simple machines they are IMHO.

 

[ADSR]

dynasty 200 is 45lbs

Syncrowave 250 is 400lbs and is only square wave.

The dynasty is..... off site

Advance Squarewave provides a fast freezing puddle, deep penetration, and fast travel speeds.

Soft Squarewave is used for a soft buttery arc with maximum puddle control and good wetting action.

Sine wave is for customers that like a traditional arc. It is quiet with good wetting.

Triangular wave reduces the heat input and is good on thin aluminum. It provides fast travel speeds.

 

[ADSR]

Big bucks for a Dynasty.

i've seen some used ones with contractor kits in the 2500 range. That's with the bottle and reg. too.

 

[Ohmthis]

I am going to throw my 2 cents in. I have used a synchrowave 250DX and I think it is a great welder............for a larger shop that needs the high ends of it. I believe you can get the synchrowave 200 with the pulser now. I wanted to add another machine. I have a Lincoln precision tig 225, it has a built in pulser and is rated from 5 to 230 amps. The duty cycle at the higher amps is less, but still have it. To me the best part is that it takes up half the room as the SW 250 uses less power and comes with everything you need to get going except your gas. Give it a look! They should still be around $2-2200 new.

 

[zkling]

Go buy this now!!!!

Syncrowave 250 "Stick welder" $400
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/3950330967.html

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

OK bud, email sent to that guy
Lets see what happens on Tuesday, maybe Tuesday evening after work

Adam

 

[zkling]

OK bud, email sent to that guy
Lets see what happens on Tuesday, maybe Tuesday evening after work

Adam

I hope you get it. Great machine at a great price. Make sure you get to test it out first though. Just heads up. They are extremely dense, especially without wheels on them. Going to need a hoist or something. They are ~400lbs and not easy to pick up.

Also, make sure to ask about any accessories he may have lying around. Looks like the pedal is there, which is good. See if they have a regulator and tig torch.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

I did see the pedal in the pic too....
Wonder what else is going on there

Adam

 

[zkling]

The pedal looks like someone modified it with tread plate. At least I don't think it is factory. Mine is just flat on the top.

Looks like there are two ground clamps, a stinger for stick electrode holding some welding cable and a power cord. See if they will include the matching trash can. Would be good for storing filler. Even if they don't have a regulator and tig torch you will still be getting a great deal. Figure ~$250 for regulator, tig torch, tungsten, hose, cups, enough misc stuff to get you started.

 

[theknurl]

zkling;
diamond plate? its a Lincoln pedal

todays LA Craigslist;
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/se...der&zoomToPosting=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=

Adam McLaughlin;
jewelry.....you'll be using a blow pipe or small O/A

Bernard coolers **** and they are noisy as hell, a small water fountain pump in a 5 gallon bucket works just fine, so does city water and thats production welding aluminum

air cooled torches are a waste of time and bulky.....i won't use them

probably 0.1% of the people welding can USE the wave and freq adjustments possible

i've been using the same Lincoln 300/300 for 38 years.....and for a lot of that time it was running 6 hours a day

so far it's used a $0.05 O-ring in the water solenoid

when you buy a used machine tell the seller you want to see it run, take a welder with you and have him test it

bet you can get the entire set up for less than $1,000 or less

been welding for 57 years

 

[ADSR]

zkling;
diamond plate? its a Lincoln pedal

todays LA Craigslist;
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/se...der&zoomToPosting=&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=



probably 0.1% of the people welding can USE the wave and freq adjustments possible


been welding for 57 years

I'm sure you can lay down a wicked stack of dimes on any machine. But I didn't learn on the old square wave machine. I've been learning and taking advantage of all the new tech in the inverted machine. And let me tell you, the do make a huge difference. I can dial the Arc to a lazer beam and weld a ring on a flea's **** without any HAZ.

 

[zkling]

I can dial the Arc to a lazer beam and weld a ring on a flea's **** without any HAZ.

Pics or you lie

zkling;
diamond plate? its a Lincoln pedal

I don't think so. From the pics it looks like the remade a top plate for the lincoln out of diamond / tread plate. The old miller pedals have kinda an iconc large box appearance. Drop one on your foot and you will know it. I thought the older lincoln pedals were more streamlined and lower to the floor?

air cooled torches are a waste of time and bulky.....i won't use them

Ugh, my WP17 is highly offended. Hope your sitting when I tell you this.... It even has a gas valve on the body.

Yea the water cooled stuff is nice, but for most of the stuff I do and most folks do at home, it is just easier to grab the air cooled IMHO. No need to worry about turning on the water supply.

probably 0.1% of the people welding can USE the wave and freq adjustments possible

But then there are no bragging rights when comparing machines.

Got to be honest though, after getting the syncrowave not sure if I would go back to an old sine machine. Especially on thin aluminum. I do really like the high frequency buzzing of the inverters, maybe I will get one just for that.

 

[Adam McLaughlin]

Hey Guys

Wow what a great thread! Thoroughly enjoying this one
I'd like to see more of this discussion and contribution

OK, so I emailed the seller with my Home, I Phone and eMail addy, no response.
Still have my fingers crossed, but am not going to hold my breath

I did Electrical Engineering at Cal; would be very interested to see how the different wave form outputs of the welding machines would affect the final product.

Talk to me about Duty Cycle for TIG boxes, what should I be looking for as a minimum?
I do see that there is some variance in these machines.

Adam

 

[3oheight]

My buddy has an miller dynasty 200dx that I have used a bunch it rocks. I wanted my own machine but could not afford that much. I ended up with a miller diversion 180. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the dynasty but it welds very well. I'm happy.

 

[zkling]

I did Electrical Engineering at Cal; would be very interested to see how the different wave form outputs of the welding machines would affect the final product.
Adam

Then you should be telling us about the different waveforms.

JK, I hated circuit analysis class, thankfully us ME's only needed 2 classes in it. I remember one day when the prof asked how many volts and what type of current are in a car battery. We were supposed to write it down on a sheet of paper. Next day he had tallied all the answers and plotted them. Only 1/5 of ~200 students got it correct.

Briefly

Sine wave machine --> Oldest tech, big honking transformer machines --> Riding a unicycle
Square wave machine --> More modern tech, still pretty large transformer machines --> Riding a bicycle
Advanced square wave --> Newest tech, primarily inverters, light, portable, expensive --> Riding a tricycle/big wheel.

They will all get you there, just some are easier to master than others. Some folks will give up on riding a unicycle as it is a steep learning curve. Others are just scared of it and opt for the easier (more expensive) tricycle off the bat. Then there are those that must have all the accessories to go on their tricycle just for bragging rights without ever fully utilizing said accessories.


Good read

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/TIG-gtaw-Features-benefits-and-options/

http://www.millerwelds.com/resource...amplitude-balance-waveform-controls-inverter/

Talk to me about Duty Cycle for TIG boxes, what should I be looking for as a minimum?
I do see that there is some variance in these machines.

Adam

What thickness and material type do you plan on welding? How long of runs? Duty cycle is dependent on output amperage. Output amperage is dependent on material thickness and type.

 

[waltari]

I bought a water cooled version of the Invertig 201 a few years back. I had been using Miller equipment for nearly a decade prior to buying this and it's performed rock solid for me. Also, the customer service from the company has been excellent.

http://www.usaweld.com/Invertig-201-Welders-s/27.htm

 

[motobilt]

I love my Miller Dynasty 200 DX. I have the water cooler with it. I have also owned a couple Syncrowave 250 TIG machines. Reading the original post sounds like in inverter like the Dynasty would be the way to go if the budget allows.

 

[MotoDave]

Great thread. I've also been looking for my first TIG welder. Unfortunately I'm limited to the existing 30 amp 240V circuit, so I am only looking at inverters. I have not had much luck finding local deals on used machines, so I'm currently looking at the Hobart EZ-TIG 165 or Miller Diversion 165, or the Thermal Arc 186. My local welding shop (Airgas) sells and services Thermal Arc, which alleviates a lot of my concern over warranty issues.

 

[zkling]

95% of the time it would be cheaper to replace the breaker and proper wiring compared to the cost increase of a iverter over a used or even new transformer machine. The Diversions are nice machines, then again so are the TA's. Of your list I would probably go with the TA186 first then the 165 blue then white.

 

[MotoDave]

95% of the time it would be cheaper to replace the breaker and proper wiring compared to the cost increase of a iverter over a used or even new transformer machine.

Not really, a new Miller Synchrowave 200 is $2400 at cyberweld, more at my LWS. I've not found many used within a few hrs drive that are much cheaper. I can get a Hobart 165 (my choice over miller because it includes a foot pedal) for $1400, the Thermal arc is around 1800 and seems to have a feature set equivalent to the miller Dynasty. Both are enough welder for me to learn on.

Yes, there's always the guy that found a miller Dynasty 350DX with water cooler on craigslist for $200, I don't have that luck.

I have 100 amp service to the house, and won't live here long enough to justify upgrading that. I'm not lucky enough to have a detached shop with 200 amp service, otherwise I'd look for an older industrial machine. The Synchrowave 200 or Lincoln 175 both pull down 60+ amps, and recommend an 80 amp breaker.

 

[theknurl]

MotoDave;
i'm with zkling,..... rewire!
TIG welding with only 30 amps is going to be tough, especially aluminum

LA CraigsList has 300 amp transformer machines for as little as $375
there was a COMPLETE setup less only the bottle for $800

remember if you get a complete setup.....if at a later date you decide you want a square wave.....find one and sell the transformer, you'll only need the newer machine

zkling;
the near side of a Lincoln pedal is 2" the far side 4 3/4" and its 1/8" diamond plate

learning on a transformer is easy, my ex-girlfriend Jeannie was doing decent aluminum outside corner welds in 20-30 minutes,
1st time welding anything

my city water has been on for 30 years the 300/300 has gas and water solenoids, no need to remember the water

circuit breaker on
gas on
step on the push button switch in the lower....machine is on

weld

again....water coolers ****
Bernards are very noisy, and the parts are made of gold

my neighbor tried to give me a used one...
his used machine came with 2
"no thanks Rod, you keep it......you will learn to hate the POS"

 

[zkling]

Not really, a new Miller Synchrowave 200 is $2400 at cyberweld, more at my LWS.

That is not really a fair comparison. The syncro 200 is literally almost 2x the machine the diversion or white 165 is. Those are very limited machines aimed for the DIY folks that want to get into tig without the price of a truly capable tig power supply. The syncrowae 200 is a small industrial class machine full of basic features any (IMHO) tig machine should have.

The Synchrowave 200 or Lincoln 175 both pull down 60+ amps, and recommend an 80 amp breaker.

You would be fine on a 50 or even 40amp breaker. Seriously, unless you were running all out all the time. Do you have an electric dryer, stove or oven at your place? What size breakers are they on?

It sounds like the TA machine would be the ticket for you. Lots of folks bought them as alternatives to the dynasty series and absolutely love them, especially for the price difference.

my city water has been on for 30 years the 300/300 has gas and water solenoids, no need to remember the water

I really need to find a way to get a water solenoid hooked up to my syncro 250. I don't know why the manufactures stopped putting them on the larger machines. A few years back I looked in different solenoids to put on it, but couldn't find any for real cheap. Any suggestions? I figure I could probably parallel it to the gas valve, and I could get post flow cooling water for the same duration of post flow gas? What are your thoughts on this?

 

[zkling]

Warning, somewhat off topic.

Woa, just browsing millers site, been a while I see they now offer a "Syncrowave 210" WTF is that?
Did the older millermatic 210 and syncrowave 200 have a baby? that is what it looks like.

Where is the need in the market for this? Anybody have one?

 

[JoeMayo]

I have a Miller 304xmt if your interested.. It won't do aluminum but anything else.

 

[R.Anderson]

I really need to find a way to get a water solenoid hooked up to my syncro 250. I don't know why the manufactures stopped putting them on the larger machines. A few years back I looked in different solenoids to put on it, but couldn't find any for real cheap. Any suggestions? I figure I could probably parallel it to the gas valve, and I could get post flow cooling water for the same duration of post flow gas? What are your thoughts on this?

I have seen water solenoids wired in that operated that way, in not sure if they ran them with the gas solenoid. I would be one to try it. If I had any worries on over loading I would put in a relay in to control both solenoids on separate contacts.