Oldtuleguy
Well-known member
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That is a cool wrench








I was and still am.The catalog cut in post #1 is a Champion S wrench #501, and has the anvil logo that Champion de Arment used in the 1920s. Are we satisfied with that answer?
I wasn't actually doubting their existence, 4.c, so much as pointing out in a lighted-hearted manner that "we" collectors here on GJ were doing a bang up job on the 501's and pretty much getting skunked across the board on the others so far!They are on another tool website:
It has not yet been definitively ascertained who made the 22½° offset double-open-end "textile" style wrenches on the RIGHT.
As of this posting, they remain a mystery...
I think we'd need harder evidence, of course, but the backwards "N" on one of the textile style DOE wrenches that Levi noted in post # 10 is at least a little intriguing. Is it possible that two die makers for two completely different companies making two different kinds of wrenches ("S", and textile) with the same name each happen to configure a die with the same mistake? Yes. But given the same name, it is possible it was one die maker with the same bad habit, too. The rectangle bothers me for it being the same as the DeArment company, though.I doubt any further effort is going to answer any questions about "backwards N" ... on these wrenches.
Made or sold? Isn't there some evidence on the Eberhard thread to suggest they were made by Eberhard? LS, who refers to your chevrons as cravats, has a few with the Circle-E. Or is the make/sold the other way around?They also just happen to be the company who made that odd "S" shaped service wrench stamped "OK CHAMPION" with the little chevron shapes at the ends of the shanks:
It's my understanding that it's a number and time (24 hours?) limit, 4.c. If you try tomorrow, and you don't make a bunch of other edits today, I think you will be allowed to edit them.I have, of course, exceeded my "edit" limit,
That has been my experience as well. What is left of Tool Archives no longer seems to be working.Did Todd take his site down? None of the links to toolarchives.com seem to be working.
08/05/22 BK 05:11 PDT
Private Lugnutz regarding the 'OK Champion' DOE wrench said:Made or sold? Isn't there some evidence on the Eberhard thread to suggest they were made by Eberhard? LS, who refers to your chevrons as cravats, has a few with the Circle-E. Or is the make/sold the other way around?
Private Lugnutz said:"... the backwards "N" on one of the textile style DOE wrenches that Levi noted in post # 10..."
Private Lugnutz said:Is it possible that two die makers for two completely different companies making two different kinds of wrenches ("S", and textile) with the same name each happen to configure a die with the same mistake? Yes. But given the same name, it is possible it was one die maker with the same bad habit, too. The rectangle bothers me for it being the same as the DeArment company, though.



This is an example of a subject that has nagged at me. The preservation of the wealth of information and research on tool history posted on the internet is more tenuous than what we'd like to think. A number of sites and forums have been set up and maintained by the efforts of one man having the passion and resources to put them together. If something happens to that individual or his resources, the content is lost. Most recently was the passing of "papaw" Noel Hankamer. His son Patrick stepped in to preserve and maintain Noel's Papaw's Wrench website and the Tool Talk forum, which contains a wealth of information. Without Patrick, the site would have likely been lost. But there was no guarantee that his son would have taken over the task, nor is there any guarantee Patrick's enthusiasm and dedication to the project is equal to his father's. There may come a time when he loses interest, runs out of time or resources, or something else may befall him, and the Tool Talk forum will disappear. I can think of one thread here on GJ that was started as an ongoing project but was abandoned by the member when he seemed to have lost interest in it.I haven't talked to Todd in a few months, guys, but I'm pretty sure that letting the yearly server fee lapse on his website goes hand in hand with his absence here, and his brief return to announce the sale of a bunch of his tools, all precipitated by him downshifting some personal life gears that he doesn't feel like discussing but GJ well-wishers should not read as drastic or tragic.
four.cycle: thank you for your extensive research on this subject.Champion, Champion, or Champion? (please select any of the above)
Rather than further add to the confusion about "Champion" by starting yet another thread, I'm going to take a stab here at sorting through the various "Champion" brands and products that have existed over the years and try to help you to make sense of it.
We'll start with a list of the various "Champion" brands and makers, which is kinda-sorta in alphabetical order:
Champion / Champion adjustable wrench see Girard / "Champion" forged into handle /
Champion / Champion adjustable wrench see Losee Wrench Works / patent 864659 Aug 27 1907 Jesse A. Losee /
Champion / Champion adjustable wrench see Whitman & Barnes / erroneously marked "PAT. FEBY. 23.83 CHAMPION" / actual patent date is Feb 27 1883 patent 273170 Frederick H. Seymour /
Champion / Champion-Arrowhead, 5147 Alhambra Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90032 / sprinkler and irrigation wrenches /
Champion / Champion Blower & Forge Co., Lancaster, PA / taps, dies, screw plates / "Electric" screw plates /
Champion / Champion Brass see Champion Arrowhead /
Champion / Champion carriage wrench see Goodell Co. (Goodell Bros., Goodell-Pratt) /
Champion / Champion chain wrench see Greene Tweed & Co. / see patent 442569 Dec 9 1890 George W. Buffard /
Champion / Champion chain pipe wrench see Ithaca Drop Forge Co. / Bufford Chain Wrench patent 442569 Dec 9 1890 George W. Buffard /
Champion / Champion DeArment / Champion DeArment Co., Meadville, PA / est. 1886 (renamed to Champion DeArment 1924) / see also Channellock / patent 1371952 Mar 15 1921 Paul John Tumulla & 1950362 Mar 6 1934 Howard H. Manning / http://alloy-artifacts.org/champion-dearment-tool.html / http://alloy-artifacts.org/champion-dearment-tool.html#history / http://toolarchives.com/index.php/node/96 /
Champion / Champion IHC implement wrench see B.F. Avery & Sons /
Champion / Champion IHC implement wrench see E & D Co. /
Champion / Champion jar wrench see C.S.L. Co., Geneva, OH /
Champion / see Keystone Forge /
Champion / Champion "Lightning" wrench see Champion Machine & Tooling Co. / "Lightning" wrench / patent ? /
Champion / Champion Machine & Tooling Co.,
Champion / Champion Mower & Reaper, Springfield, IL / implement wrench / some specimens marked 2153, 2155, 2156 with stylized Maltese Cross /
Champion / Champion Potato Co., Hammond, IN / "OK Champion" / see OK Champion /
Champion / Champion ratchet wrench see Syracuse Wrench Co. /
Champion / Champion screwdriver see Union Hardware Co., Torrington, CT /
Champion / Champion Silo Co., Des Moines, IA / (see also Western Silo Co.) /
Champion / Champion silo wrench see Western Silo Co. /
Champion / Champion Spark Plug Co., Toledo, OH / "Plug Master" ratchet manufactured by New Britain Machine /
Champion / Champion Tool Co., Meadville, PA / est. 1886 / patent 908969 Jan 5 1909 George B. DeArment / "Champion" hoof nippers, "Giant" hoof parer / renamed to Champion DeArment Co. 1924 /
Champion / Champion Wrench Mfg. Co., 928 W. Huron, Chicago, IL / patent 1371952 Mar 15 1921 Paul John Tumulla / renamed to Champion DeArment /
* Because of the limitations on number of photos per post, I have to break this down in separate posts and go over each of the above, one at a time.
DadsTools said:"This is an example of a subject ..."
No worries.How'd I manage to miss that one?
With the caution that the rectangle around the textile style is a little troublesome, agreed and thanks. Credit to Levi who made first note of it.That sounds like a good argument for them both being made in the same house, on the same line, with (possibly) the same dyslexic set-up guy working with the dies.

Amen. Which brings us to another aspect of this circumstance (sorry, Leviton, if I'm kind of hijacking this thread). What might be the 'cash value' of this information? Traditional collector references in book form are a traditional avenue for preserving such information in a permanent form, but are expense to produce and print. To make the venture worthwhile, the target audience has to be sufficiently large and/or sufficiently affluent. It's easy in our GJ world to lose sight of the reality that vintage tool collecting represents such a minuscule segment of the general population. Of all the people I've personally known in my life, I don't recall any of them having any interest (or even a passing curiosity) in vintage tools aside from the few individuals that inherited tools owned by their family, and even here the interest was limited to what was inherited. I know of a couple print references referring to antique wrenches (true antiques) and wood hand planes, both of which have audiences willing to dig into deep pockets for the associated artifacts. Then consider fields like Christmas or fishing collectibles, the audience for which have given rise to numerous published references, local and regional clubs, and multiple annual conventions and other related gatherings. Just take collectible fishing lures, where some have sold in the tens of thousands, topped by the rarest Haskell minnow that sold for over $100,000. With vintage tools, however, many if not most will not acquire unless they can get it at yard sale prices, and even the more valuable examples run only in the hundreds. It's a very limited market.Unfortunately there really isn't a "place" for this information to be archived in any sort of permanent fashion.
It is, unfortunately, a tenuous connection at best.
I originally posted my "list" on Wikipedia (as well as here on GJ), but when I went to update it, I got an error message telling me the list contained URLs with "offensive or questionable content". Needless to say, I deleted the entry at Wikipedia, and the "list" has a home here on GJ and on my hard drive. If it's lost, it's lost.
I've spent the last several years researching and mining the web for every little scrap of material I could find that had to do with "tool".
What you see above is just a little bit of a small portion of the "C" section in my "tools" folder. (see attached)
Like many others, I'm out of time. I have many other projects that need my attention. Like Todd, events here have caused me to reexamine the use of my time and my priorities.
What do I do with this material?
You can find some fragments of certain sites on the WayBack Machine.This is an example of a subject that has nagged at me. The preservation of the wealth of information and research on tool history posted on the internet is more tenuous than what we'd like to think. A number of sites and forums have been set up and maintained by the efforts of one man having the passion and resources to put them together. If something happens to that individual or his resources, the content is lost. Most recently was the passing of "papaw" Noel Hankamer. His son Patrick stepped in to preserve and maintain Noel's Papaw's Wrench website and the Tool Talk forum, which contains a wealth of information. Without Patrick, the site would have likely been lost. But there was no guarantee that his son would have taken over the task, nor is there any guarantee Patrick's enthusiasm and dedication to the project is equal to his father's. There may come a time when he loses interest, runs out of time or resources, or something else may befall him, and the Tool Talk forum will disappear. I can think of one thread here on GJ that was started as an ongoing project but was abandoned by the member when he seemed to have lost interest in it.
Which brings us to the famous Garage Gazette crash where all the forum content was lost because the server service had a major malfunction (this also affected the above-mentioned project where it was being more actively maintained, but was never re-started after the crash). The GG is another of those forums maintained by one man with a single set of resources. Alloy Artifacts is another site that I believe is the project of one man, and so may be at a similar risk. I seem to recall that even the establishment and maintainence of Garage Journal is the result of a single individual's project. Were GJ to be lost, the loss of the incredible volume of valuable historical information recorded here is a heart-wrenching thought.
If anything happens to those individuals, the chances are good that the content of their respective forums will be lost. Things happen. People and their circumstances change. There will come a day when none of us commenting on this thread will be around. It is the inescapable fate of any one-man show.
I've thought about publishing my RHFT type study and other research I've recorded in GJ on Amazon in a digital format to insure its preservation. But I too have reached a state in my life where I simply don't want to devote what little time and energy I have left to its undertaking--I have more important fish to fry before I go which now command my motivation. Perhaps when the major project I'm working on now is completed, I may do it. Or maybe not.
Todd's toolarchives is not the first, nor will it be the last.
Four.cycle. Wow. Thank you for the extensive work in this post and those that followed.Champion, Champion, or Champion? (please select any of the above)
Rather than further add to the confusion about "Champion" by starting yet another thread, I'm going to take a stab here at sorting through the various "Champion" brands and products that have existed over the years and try to help you to make sense of it.
We'll start with a list of the various "Champion" brands and makers, which is kinda-sorta in alphabetical order:
Champion / Champion adjustable wrench see Girard / "Champion" forged into handle /
Champion / Champion adjustable wrench see Losee Wrench Works / patent 864659 Aug 27 1907 Jesse A. Losee /
Champion / Champion adjustable wrench see Whitman & Barnes / erroneously marked "PAT. FEBY. 23.83 CHAMPION" / actual patent date is Feb 27 1883 patent 273170 Frederick H. Seymour /
Champion / Champion-Arrowhead, 5147 Alhambra Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90032 / sprinkler and irrigation wrenches /
Champion / Champion Blower & Forge Co., Lancaster, PA / taps, dies, screw plates / "Electric" screw plates /
Champion / Champion Brass see Champion Arrowhead /
Champion / Champion carriage wrench see Goodell Co. (Goodell Bros., Goodell-Pratt) /
Champion / Champion chain wrench see Greene Tweed & Co. / see patent 442569 Dec 9 1890 George W. Buffard /
Champion / Champion chain pipe wrench see Ithaca Drop Forge Co. / Bufford Chain Wrench patent 442569 Dec 9 1890 George W. Buffard /
Champion / Champion DeArment / Champion DeArment Co., Meadville, PA / est. 1886 (renamed to Champion DeArment 1924) / see also Channellock / patent 1371952 Mar 15 1921 Paul John Tumulla & 1950362 Mar 6 1934 Howard H. Manning / http://alloy-artifacts.org/champion-dearment-tool.html / http://alloy-artifacts.org/champion-dearment-tool.html#history / http://toolarchives.com/index.php/node/96 /
Champion / Champion IHC implement wrench see B.F. Avery & Sons /
Champion / Champion IHC implement wrench see E & D Co. /
Champion / Champion jar wrench see C.S.L. Co., Geneva, OH /
Champion / see Keystone Forge /
Champion / Champion "Lightning" wrench see Champion Machine & Tooling Co. / "Lightning" wrench / patent ? /
Champion / Champion Machine & Tooling Co.,
Champion / Champion Mower & Reaper, Springfield, IL / implement wrench / some specimens marked 2153, 2155, 2156 with stylized Maltese Cross /
Champion / Champion Potato Co., Hammond, IN / "OK Champion" / see OK Champion /
Champion / Champion ratchet wrench see Syracuse Wrench Co. /
Champion / Champion screwdriver see Union Hardware Co., Torrington, CT /
Champion / Champion Silo Co., Des Moines, IA / (see also Western Silo Co.) /
Champion / Champion silo wrench see Western Silo Co. /
Champion / Champion Spark Plug Co., Toledo, OH / "Plug Master" ratchet manufactured by New Britain Machine /
Champion / Champion Tool Co., Meadville, PA / est. 1886 / patent 908969 Jan 5 1909 George B. DeArment / "Champion" hoof nippers, "Giant" hoof parer / renamed to Champion DeArment Co. 1924 /
Champion / Champion Wrench Mfg. Co., 928 W. Huron, Chicago, IL / patent 1371952 Mar 15 1921 Paul John Tumulla / renamed to Champion DeArment /
* Because of the limitations on number of photos per post, I have to break this down in separate posts and go over each of the above, one at a time.
Just to clarify, I never thought that you were intending to make money, nor did I intend to even infer that in my post. I'm not sure how you may have got that impression, so I must have not made my meaning clear. I was talking about the kinds of resources, efforts and expenses it requires to convert this kind of collector information into a permanent form, which is a printed paper book that cannot be lost by system crashes or website abandonment, all of which would be pretty much impossible to recoup were someone to undertake that task in this field. So rather than suggesting you might try to make money from it, my meaning was quite the opposite! Nor did I ever imagine that someone would try to take your information and publish a book with it, so I'm not sure how my post may have led to that thought. Sorry for any miscommunication--I hope it's cleared up now.We're way off on a tangent here, and I was hoping to avoid that, but I'll address your comment above:
I never had any intention of trying to make money, or even break even, on this venture. The intent from the very beginning was to help build an open-source database. (Todd and I had several phone conversations way way way back about this.)
The "list" is only a starting point.
The "plan" is to organize and clean up all the files and folders - and there are a lot of them, as you can see from the image above - and copy it all to a flash drive and simply distribute the flash drives to "interested parties".
If somebody wants to take that material and try to publish a book, I wish 'em all the luck in the world.
But I look forward to any new evidence one way or another that might turn up one day.it seems to me that the two Champions we see here are not from the same company.
leg17 said:With absolutely nothing to base my opinion upon, it seems to me that the two Champions we see here are not from the same company.
DadsTools said:Nor did I ever imagine that someone would try to take your information and publish a book with it, so I'm not sure how my post may have led to that thought.
It's actually made by Hampton Machine & Tool Company of Hampton, Iowa.Moving right along, we come to a "Champion" "Lightning" wrench manufactured by one Champion Machine and Tooling Company whose whereabouts are unknown:
Champion / Champion "Lightning" wrench see Champion Machine & Tooling Co. / "Lightning" wrench / patent ? /
Champion / Champion Machine & Tooling Co.,
This delightful little number remains a mystery. We know it's a "Champion", and we know it was made by "Champion Machine and Tooling", and they apparently believed it was "Lightning" fast. That's about as much as we know at this point. Looks suspiciously British to me, but that might just be my wild imagination.
View attachment 1707858
Champion Machine & Tooling Lightning wrench (patent )(photo: ebay 174703898833 01)
View attachment 1707859
Champion Machine & Tooling Lightning wrench (patent )(photo: ebay 174703898833 02)
View attachment 1707860
Champion Machine & Tooling Lightning wrench (patent )(photo: ebay 174703898833 03)
View attachment 1707861
Champion Machine & Tooling Lightning wrench (patent )(photo: ebay 174703898833 04)
View attachment 1707862
Champion Machine & Tooling Lightning wrench (patent )(photo: ebay 174703898833 05)
Geez, it does say that, doesn't it. @four.cycleIt's actually made by Hampton Machine & Tool Company of Hampton, Iowa.







I think it most likely Eberhard made that malleable steel wrench for OK Champion.Here's another fun one - the Champion Potato Machinery Company of Hammond, Indiana. This same company also made appearances as "OK Champion":
Champion / Champion Potato Machinery Co., Hammond, IN / "OK Champion" / see OK Champion /
O.K. / O.K. Champion Potato Machinery Co. see O.K. Champion Corp. /
O.K. / O.K. Champion Corp., 4714 Sheffield Ave., Hammond, IN 46327 / est. 1897 / farm implements / acquired by TSE International see https://tse-international.com/products/underground/ok-champion/ /
Originally a manufacturer of farm implements designed to plant and harvest potatoes, this company went on to become an industry leader in underground maintenance equipment for electric power, sewer and communications systems:
1903 Champion Potato Machinery Co. (Hammond IN) ad
1915 O.K. Champion Potato Machinery Co. ad
1937 OK Champion Corp ad
They also just happen to be the company who made that odd "S" shaped service wrench stamped "OK CHAMPION" with the little chevron shapes at the ends of the shanks:
OK Champion open-end wrench (photo: George Roberts 01)
OK Champion open-end wrench (photo: George Roberts 02)


Curious.Champion Hardware Company, Geneva OH, founded 1883 in Cleveland as Champion Safety Lock and Novelty Co. Registered March 9, 1885. (bizapedia) Sold in 1954, closed in 1957.

Not my vise, but the third version (on eBay).And yes, the logos on Don's C-clamps most certainly do look like the logo used on @LesserSon's vise, and as noted somewhere here, from "vise" to "clamp" isn't too far a stretch.