Chrome Moly vs Chrome Van. impact , thickness?
- Thread starter SRSemenza
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The taped design is stylistic and specific to your particular brand or whats in your tool box.
Generally speaking, CRO-MO impact sockets will have a thicker wall than comparable design CR-V impact socket wall thicknesses.
You're right I just checked some sets I have and while the smaller sizes give the impression they are thicker it's pretty obvious on the big ones the cr-mo is thicker.
It's inherent in the material characteristic differences between CRO-MO and CR-V. It's also why you'll see most if not nearly all extra thin wall impact sockets being made from CR-V even though I know that's not OP's question.
I think you can say that regardless of alloy, cheaper sockets have the tapered end. Even the HF deep Cr Molys are tapered in the small sizes, rather than necked down. CrV is harder so it is good in a non impact application and allows thinner walls but when you beat on a socket (impact), the less brittle CrMoly are less likely to crack.
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I just went and checked some sets I have, hard to tell a difference to be honest. That said I also just checked my "extras" drawer (tools I buy on sale that I don't really need) and found Craftsman evolve impacts to be made in Taiwan, didn't know that.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
CR-V is more brittle than Cr-Mo. Cr-V is more likely to crack when used with an impact wrench.
DerekV
Well-known member
In general, it depends. I've seen both thin and thick walled CR-V and CR-MO sockets. There is no rhyme or reason. If any one is different than another, it's merely due to the respective manufacturing and/or engineering of the product. The end.
I find some of my most used impact sockets have noticeable distortion or wear they are chrome-M do you guys think chrome-V would wear slower? Perhaps they would but a softer metal is the safer option for impacts......especially with the high strenght impact guns used these days. 1000ftlbs in a 1/2" is quite the norm today where not that long ago 4or500ftlbs was a high power gun. Is a chrome-V impact socket just like a regular chrome socket but thicker??
Let me add a bit ................. I just got a Tekton CR-V impact set. The first thing I was using one on it wouldn't fit in a recess the where my GW regular chrome will fit (same drive size). So I am wondering if I would be better off getting CR-M impact set if they are generally thinner without going to actual thin wall.
I would be looking in the $150 - $250 range for a complete shallow and deep, metric and SAE set.
I see that Capri has a set in that price range that are CR-M. Sunex too I think. But if the walls are the same I will probably stick with the Tekton because they seem pretty darn good and have received some good marks on here (GJ).
Then maybe get a few thin wall impact in whatever sizes when needed.
Seth
I would be looking in the $150 - $250 range for a complete shallow and deep, metric and SAE set.
I see that Capri has a set in that price range that are CR-M. Sunex too I think. But if the walls are the same I will probably stick with the Tekton because they seem pretty darn good and have received some good marks on here (GJ).
Then maybe get a few thin wall impact in whatever sizes when needed.
Seth
WittHay
Well-known member
I have a couple of sets of Taiwan industrial brand sockets,
The cr-v ones are SAE and are thick walled with the o-ring groove on the bottom. Some people call these Japanese style. They stand up really well better than my Proto or Snap-on.
The metric set is cr-m and they are thinner probably similar to a Sunex. Don't use them as much but seem to wear well. For working on cars I would recommend the Sunex type
The cr-v ones are SAE and are thick walled with the o-ring groove on the bottom. Some people call these Japanese style. They stand up really well better than my Proto or Snap-on.
The metric set is cr-m and they are thinner probably similar to a Sunex. Don't use them as much but seem to wear well. For working on cars I would recommend the Sunex type
This is not strictly true on cr-v being more likely crack as it all down to grade of cr-v used and precise tempering which is totally different to that of chromed cr-v sockets.
I got cr-v sockets close to 3 decade old and none cracked and wear is slower over current too soft cr-mo which wallow out easily in hard work with hard hiting air impacts, cr-mo become more popular purely as easier manufacture to impact spec .
Best impacts I got are cr-v and nice design with proper stepped down necks on top for small sizes and bottom on bigger plus have groove at bottom aid pulling socket on hog ring or holds o ring for pin retainer application and wall thickness sensible .
Lot of the popular ones are pretty much manufacture ease over proper made . I don't buy the ease of manufacture design taper nose type or ones with no step down at drive end as too bulky and don't work in recessed areas on long sockets, try avoid cr-mo too as current crop of cr-mo just too damn soft .
Ole Slewfoot
Well-known member
I grind the ones that won't fit, I have a few special purpose ones.
Some of best you will find will be taiwan off brands normally with japan style roll stamped in base.
I have a 22pc shallow set in moulded case which used in shop by all daily and loaned out over last 5 years and they better condition and design than employees MAC set .
shop down road had snapon as thought offered to good a deal, they wallowed real bad, soft as cheese ... you loose hitting power when sockets to soft .
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Just for my info., who makes a necked down CR V impact? Thanks. Virtually all the high end brands that I have checked, use Cr Moly for impacts. Even lowly HF uses Cr Moly for their more expensive impacts and Cr V for their cheaper ones. Harder steels wear less but the trade off is they are more brittle so in shock situations (impacts) they might have to make CrV thicker to compensate. Dunno. This debate is endless. I wish somebody with technical expertise in tool manufacturing would chime in.
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I have a mix of CR-MO & CR-V impacts that i use, honestly i think its more down to the sockets design than anything. I have set of cr-mo sockets that are thin-ish, sets of them that are thick and the same for cr-v.
In the rare occasion that i need a thin wall socket i'll just use a chrome and hand tool. I prefer the necked socket design rather than the one with a short taper at the end but its not a deal breaker, i use a set of tekton deeps that have the taper and they don't seem to suffer from it, they're also quite thin walled compared to some other sockets i use.
In the rare occasion that i need a thin wall socket i'll just use a chrome and hand tool. I prefer the necked socket design rather than the one with a short taper at the end but its not a deal breaker, i use a set of tekton deeps that have the taper and they don't seem to suffer from it, they're also quite thin walled compared to some other sockets i use.
What you must consider is just stamping cr-v or cr-mo tells you nothing really.
amount of quality grades of either plus the exact forging and tempering is what controls usable wall thickness and how resistant it will be to cracking .
HF do indeed have cr-mo stamped on the pitts pro but those sockets way harder than MAC or snapon so for sure have less molybdenum so closer to cr-v grade really .
I have a set of deeps same factory as the MAC edge (grip grooves) but nutmaster branded, proper decent design and necked down full length plus no skips up to 24mm and set finishes at 32mm, they cr-mo and soft same as my staffs MAC set .
We don't use weak impacts, weakest nano is over 620ft/lb and full size over 1,000ft/lb and lot of our stuff needs good beating get apart.
Have talked to the mac driver as used him for years, he openly admits loads of complaints on cr-mo wallowing out (and not just mac) and mainly used as current production trend (easier manufacture). He will swap out my lads sockets under warranty as needed, don't care about my nutmaster branded as bought them online fifth of cost of MAC so I can throw them in the press tool box when so wallowed drops off the impact or starts damaging fastener and simply buy another set or stick with my standard wall drive cr-v .
As for who does cr-v necked, japan style taiwan, can be found under several brands, laser being one, I got shallow set and deep .
With impact sockets you far better off buy decent made off brand and self warranty, truck brand is waste of money and current quality and potential warranty hassle to get enough exchanges make initial price viable not likely for many. The old wallowed impact sockets not waste as use as total beater socket or drift pieces at the hydraulic press .
amount of quality grades of either plus the exact forging and tempering is what controls usable wall thickness and how resistant it will be to cracking .
HF do indeed have cr-mo stamped on the pitts pro but those sockets way harder than MAC or snapon so for sure have less molybdenum so closer to cr-v grade really .
I have a set of deeps same factory as the MAC edge (grip grooves) but nutmaster branded, proper decent design and necked down full length plus no skips up to 24mm and set finishes at 32mm, they cr-mo and soft same as my staffs MAC set .
We don't use weak impacts, weakest nano is over 620ft/lb and full size over 1,000ft/lb and lot of our stuff needs good beating get apart.
Have talked to the mac driver as used him for years, he openly admits loads of complaints on cr-mo wallowing out (and not just mac) and mainly used as current production trend (easier manufacture). He will swap out my lads sockets under warranty as needed, don't care about my nutmaster branded as bought them online fifth of cost of MAC so I can throw them in the press tool box when so wallowed drops off the impact or starts damaging fastener and simply buy another set or stick with my standard wall drive cr-v .
As for who does cr-v necked, japan style taiwan, can be found under several brands, laser being one, I got shallow set and deep .
With impact sockets you far better off buy decent made off brand and self warranty, truck brand is waste of money and current quality and potential warranty hassle to get enough exchanges make initial price viable not likely for many. The old wallowed impact sockets not waste as use as total beater socket or drift pieces at the hydraulic press .
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DFB
Well-known member
I say thickness it does vary somewhat by manufacture. I have both types of impacts Cro-Mo and CrV. My major observation with Cro-Mo is that seem to readily deform around the anvil end than the CrV. Though that may be relative because most of them are in larger sizes and I use more powerful wrenches with them like Milwaukee High Torque.
As its been said the debate is endless. Cro Mo was always the rule but there so many CrV options out there (and I sell a lot of them under my tool tent so maybe that they can't be exactly dangerous to use. I have never broken one for sure and although no one ever brought one back someone must have broke one, a 7/8" deep wall because someone swiped that one from a set one day...either that or they lost it.
.)
Oh and I have never seen a necked down CrV either just tapered tips.
So I just measured in mm with digi calipers two 11/16 deep sockets. One was an Eastwood Cro-Mo I guess its an APEX was 25.01 The other was a Klutch by Northern Tool they are CrV in the smaller sizes and Cro Mo after 1" So that one was slightly thicker but not by much 25.75
As its been said the debate is endless. Cro Mo was always the rule but there so many CrV options out there (and I sell a lot of them under my tool tent so maybe that they can't be exactly dangerous to use. I have never broken one for sure and although no one ever brought one back someone must have broke one, a 7/8" deep wall because someone swiped that one from a set one day...either that or they lost it.
.) Oh and I have never seen a necked down CrV either just tapered tips.
So I just measured in mm with digi calipers two 11/16 deep sockets. One was an Eastwood Cro-Mo I guess its an APEX was 25.01 The other was a Klutch by Northern Tool they are CrV in the smaller sizes and Cro Mo after 1" So that one was slightly thicker but not by much 25.75
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^
here some cr-v necked, deeps same design, easy pull off hog ring, nice matte phosphate finish not like the shiny black and tapered nose junk you see all too often these days.
I used cr-v for 3 decades and never cracked one and I don't weak battery tools and my impacts get over 110psi tool running .
some of my cr-v sets are handed down from dad so even older and still usable .
My experience and my employees and shop I share work with all had same wallowing issue on cr-mo, plus they don't hit as hard as impact lost when wallow so easily and drive squares so loose it becomes tool handling issue slowing you down every time the wallowed socket falls of and rolls off somewhere .
here some cr-v necked, deeps same design, easy pull off hog ring, nice matte phosphate finish not like the shiny black and tapered nose junk you see all too often these days.
I used cr-v for 3 decades and never cracked one and I don't weak battery tools and my impacts get over 110psi tool running .
some of my cr-v sets are handed down from dad so even older and still usable .
My experience and my employees and shop I share work with all had same wallowing issue on cr-mo, plus they don't hit as hard as impact lost when wallow so easily and drive squares so loose it becomes tool handling issue slowing you down every time the wallowed socket falls of and rolls off somewhere .
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Necked CR-V are all over the place, ebay sell a load of sets cheap enough;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOCHE-15...887679&hash=item5437b5214d:g:mnwAAOSwAaJaAvj7
Try some of the off-brands. Getting a whole socket set for less than £25 is easy enough and mine are lasting very well.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOCHE-15...887679&hash=item5437b5214d:g:mnwAAOSwAaJaAvj7
Try some of the off-brands. Getting a whole socket set for less than £25 is easy enough and mine are lasting very well.
No idea, probably either there or china. Cheaper to buy a decent enough set and just fill in the gaps with separate sockets and will probably last years, i got into that way of thinking after i saw the prices of tool truck sockets over here.
You can get that set for the price of a single snap-on, sure the snap on will be better quality but not that much better, and that's the US price;
https://store.snapon.com/Deep-mm-1-2--Socket-Metric-Impact-Deep-17-mm-12-Point-P742088.aspx
I picked up the below set near the end of last year for doing some home work;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-inch...651641&hash=item51fefc9851:g:j5gAAOSwuTtZxLgq
Similar to the above but in CR-MO (apparently) however i'm impressed with them ,they fit well and have a good deep broach, well worth less than £20 delivered, good for guys starting out and looking to get basic kit.
I wouldn't say snapon better lol, current cr-mo soft as cheese .
I prefer sets as complete as possible but like you I do not spend on tool trucks for sockets chromed or impact, currently cr-v or cr-mo as good a product or better at 5th of price or less. allow self warranty 4 times and you still saved money plus you in control of replacement.
Good coverage in more off brands tends be only draw back, cr-v japan style I use better than mac snapon, sunex, tekton etc IMO .
When it comes to swivel ball impacts I like my old MAC best, not tried any Taiwan on those yet .
I prefer sets as complete as possible but like you I do not spend on tool trucks for sockets chromed or impact, currently cr-v or cr-mo as good a product or better at 5th of price or less. allow self warranty 4 times and you still saved money plus you in control of replacement.
Good coverage in more off brands tends be only draw back, cr-v japan style I use better than mac snapon, sunex, tekton etc IMO .
When it comes to swivel ball impacts I like my old MAC best, not tried any Taiwan on those yet .
I realize that the CR-V vs CR-M debate will rage on forever and that there are differences beyond just the type of metal.
Does anyone have a Capri , Sunex, or similar CR-M 1 1/16" impact socket in 1/2" drive that they could measure ? Or a CR-V impact in that size from a brand other than Tekton?
If I have a couple measurements I can just compare.
Thanks,
Seth
Does anyone have a Capri , Sunex, or similar CR-M 1 1/16" impact socket in 1/2" drive that they could measure ? Or a CR-V impact in that size from a brand other than Tekton?
If I have a couple measurements I can just compare.
Thanks,
Seth
I also have a set by Mac however im looking at getting the below set by Genius;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331342066648
Not bad for less than £70 i reckon.
If you're okay having no support. Genius has all but closed doors at this point.
But I imagine if you're in Scotland, you don't factor that as much anyways.
^ Like the design and taiwan made
Genius stuff seems pretty good, I was looking at the impact swivel adapters they do .
Wait for a ebay discount coupon or sale price on that set and it would be a steal .
If it cheap enough I happy self warranty, quicker and cheaper long run .
Genius stuff seems pretty good, I was looking at the impact swivel adapters they do .
Wait for a ebay discount coupon or sale price on that set and it would be a steal .
If it cheap enough I happy self warranty, quicker and cheaper long run .
DFB
Well-known member
I have a Cr-Mo from my Klutch set in 1 1/16 deep is 37.95 mm
All my CrV stop at 1 inch I have two different brands of import the Klutch is 36mm and the Great Neck is 35.9
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Interesting.
The Tekton shallow impact CR-V 1 1/16" is 37.89mm
Gearwrench shallow regular shiny chrome 1 1/16" is 35.73mm (this one just fits the recess)
This is leading me to believe that I should be looking for a 1 1/16" thin wall impact.
Thanks for the numbers so far.
Seth
The Tekton shallow impact CR-V 1 1/16" is 37.89mm
Gearwrench shallow regular shiny chrome 1 1/16" is 35.73mm (this one just fits the recess)
This is leading me to believe that I should be looking for a 1 1/16" thin wall impact.
Thanks for the numbers so far.
Seth
I've learned a lot from this thread, I thought I new what I needs to know about impact sockets. I have 2 sets of Genius metric impacts in 1/2", a 16pc deep set 10-32mm & a 15pc short set 10-30mm. They only have the necked down sockets on the few largest sizes from 27-32mm & that's the same for both short & deep. The smaller 10-14mm are tapered down at the nose and what's in the middle is a perfect cylinder from top to bottom. My few NOS Stahwillie 3/8 are necked down with a ring/groove at the drive end. While the Genius are tool truck quality with lifetime warranty I probably would not buy them again, they wallow out pretty quick and are too soft IMO. The Teng-Tools 3/8 set (Taiwan) I have hold up better. I use air impacts with max power of 980NM on my little compact & 1700NM on full size 1/2" gun. While I'm pretty good for impacts ATM, in the future I'll definitely consider CR-V and look closely at their design. Its the drive end and the hex end that get deformed on the Genius impacts. I suppose if a company is prepared to step down the necks, they would most likely do better heat treatment too.
^
It combination of material grade and hardness treatment that makes or breaks the socket almost literally lol.
example being HF pitts pro impacts that cr-mo, these don't wallow out as quickly as truck brands and other favourite cr-mo sockets mainly as molybdenum content in the alloy they use lower so it closer to impact standard cr-v . I assume better brands adhere to a current manufacture spec classification that results in almost useless soft cr-mo sockets, have asked my MAC man for more info on the curent cr-mo trend of impacts and what manufacture standards/classifications they adhere too .
Cheap design/machining, like tapered nose, short necking rather than full length, no necking drive end on larger sizes, no groove and no chamfer on drive square all link to easier manufacture, phosphate finish much same and can pretty much see a good phosphate over cheap effort in retail pics and in hand and in use the difference night and day ...
It almost a true statement that HF pitts pro impact sockets are better than snapon lol . If HF expanded this range in drives and sizes it be a big winner for the cost and availability to all .
I sticking with my cr-v and japan style as much as can, lot more to socket design and material spec than meets the eye and buying top brands or most recommended not always best way go, learn more about it and make your own informed choice to your preferences .
For me chunky sockets with tapered nose or soft as cheese cr-mo are next to useless professionally compared to design featured sets that are necked and use old school cr-v or lower content molybdenum.
It combination of material grade and hardness treatment that makes or breaks the socket almost literally lol.
example being HF pitts pro impacts that cr-mo, these don't wallow out as quickly as truck brands and other favourite cr-mo sockets mainly as molybdenum content in the alloy they use lower so it closer to impact standard cr-v . I assume better brands adhere to a current manufacture spec classification that results in almost useless soft cr-mo sockets, have asked my MAC man for more info on the curent cr-mo trend of impacts and what manufacture standards/classifications they adhere too .
Cheap design/machining, like tapered nose, short necking rather than full length, no necking drive end on larger sizes, no groove and no chamfer on drive square all link to easier manufacture, phosphate finish much same and can pretty much see a good phosphate over cheap effort in retail pics and in hand and in use the difference night and day ...
It almost a true statement that HF pitts pro impact sockets are better than snapon lol . If HF expanded this range in drives and sizes it be a big winner for the cost and availability to all .
I sticking with my cr-v and japan style as much as can, lot more to socket design and material spec than meets the eye and buying top brands or most recommended not always best way go, learn more about it and make your own informed choice to your preferences .
For me chunky sockets with tapered nose or soft as cheese cr-mo are next to useless professionally compared to design featured sets that are necked and use old school cr-v or lower content molybdenum.
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^This post makes a lot of sense. Instinctively we presume if we buy top brands at a premium price we set ourselves up for a good result. I'm beginning to believe impact sockets to be the exception to this rule. I browsed eBay last night and found a 35piece set with proper necket down design, no tapered ends in a quality sheet metal box with locking latches in CR-V for $60 delivered. The phosphate from what I could tell looked good too. That's under $2 per socket in sizes up to 36mm!! I've noticed the price has come down a year ago you would have got the shiny black tapered, plastic cased sets from China for $4 per socket 'if'!!...you were lucky. I really aint to happy with my 2 Genius sets, they work but are wearing fast....too fast. I think I'll give this good looking Taiwan set a go as its cased well, design is good & its Cr-v not m. I read a bunch about Cr-v vs Cr-m prior to buying impacts & thought I was making the best decision staying away from Cr-v in THIS application, I now feel different & I know its not just about metal type, heat treatment plays a big role as does the recipe content of what the socket is made of. My brothers Snap On set are like cheese so I never wanted them. Its easy to read posts/reviews from folks recommending something who really don't have much idea what their talking about but it appears they do. But this thread has opened my eyes a bit and will give me a better chance to buy what I want. I will replace my 1/2" deep/shallow sets, keep my Stahlwille & Teng 3/8" sets & choose wisely on a future 1/4" and hex/etorx impacts. I even beat up one of my Genius sockets with a breaker bar trying to free a mower spindle, it went from new to dinged up in minutes of slightly poor abuse on my part. I appreciate they need to be softer than chrome sockets but many are way to soft.
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I think socketry in general exception to rule, way better or equal to top brands for 2 to 5 bucks range .
If your impact set turns out good one post a link . I've yet have issue with decent design and finish taiwan cr-v impacts and we used um with proper hard hitting air impacts daily for years .
Will be skipping genius impact swivel adaptors and trying other options after your remarks on genius cr-mo being the soft type .
If your impact set turns out good one post a link . I've yet have issue with decent design and finish taiwan cr-v impacts and we used um with proper hard hitting air impacts daily for years .
Will be skipping genius impact swivel adaptors and trying other options after your remarks on genius cr-mo being the soft type .
Whats funny is a set of 3/8" Teng-Tools impacts which are CR-M (Taiwan) are much better. Interesting the 'liability' issues the big tool co's could face should an impact break & cause injury to someone. With 1000lbft impacts guns in most toolboxes these days I bet its a big concern for them not to be sued. The small name sets that are everywhere for sale probably are'nt worried about that as much as making a product people will like. Ya I'll post some pics when I get my new ones & use them for a bit. The genius sets had a little piece of paper inside that was stamped to say they were quality checked/tested for some reason....not sure what that's all about.
^ Yeh i'm thinking same as you that big names complying to a modern times safety spec which means the buyer getting really useless impact sockets.
My best 1/2 impact ruined my workers MAC set in 8months, MAC driver good and even willing swap whole set over individuals but we all know replacement be same cheese grade . He annoyed as could of bought 1/2 and 3/8 in deep standard and short sockets for same or less money and had better usability :-/ Think he will sell if warranties whole set and go for building up a better range in cr-v taiwan .
My best 1/2 impact ruined my workers MAC set in 8months, MAC driver good and even willing swap whole set over individuals but we all know replacement be same cheese grade . He annoyed as could of bought 1/2 and 3/8 in deep standard and short sockets for same or less money and had better usability :-/ Think he will sell if warranties whole set and go for building up a better range in cr-v taiwan .