Above 1200 Sq/FT Cleaning Up My Shop

[shortykorte]

Probably in Vegas party

 

[oldironfarmer]

Ours were the house brand at Blinds.com. Cheap but so far so good.

It's been 7 months.

I did buy a 60x spotting scope...

They lasted a year before the first recharge. Of course they aren't used every day.

 

[oldironfarmer]

Andy, if you're still here, Happy Birthday!

Thanks, Bob!

Andy hasn't been here since February 23... Hope everything is OK.

Everything is ok, just a bit busy.

Happy Birthday, Andy! Hoping everything is still good with you.

Thanks!

Ahh yes.

And I forgot to message you.

Happy Birthday

Thanks! Seems like I just saw you...

Happy Birthday, Andy!

Thank you!

Happy Belated Birthday!

Belated thank you!

Happy Belated Birthday

Thank you, it was number 75

 

[oldironfarmer]

Probably in Vegas party

Umm, I don't have a Vega.

 

[oldironfarmer]

I'm so far behind I'll never catch up.

We were at Habitat for Humanity today not finding anything except I found a Nicholson file (2nd Cut) with a handle in good shape for $3 and a wood chisel with a nice but rough wood handle for $1.

I thought I should rescue the wood chisel. You can never have too many. I picked up some old Stanley plastic handle chisels recently. Not really old but they'll have good steel.



A little wire brushing and you can see

E. C. Simmons
Keen Kutter



I think it was worth a dollar...

 

[XJSuperman]

ANDY, welcome back. I was just at a threshing show where someone was making brooms and the famous broommaker/farmer/metallurgist/homebuilder of GJ of course came to mind.

 

[Grizz1963]

ANDY, welcome back. I was just at a threshing show where someone was making brooms and the famous broommaker/farmer/metallurgist/homebuilder of GJ of course came to mind.

Last broom he taught, on Friday.

 

[RickP]

Nice score on those chisels!

 

[Wreckster23]

The older I get, the more I appreciate a good set of chisels. I barely ever used them except for the wrong purpose years back. These days with a better eye, I find uses all the time. I don't have any that are worth caring about, the eyes are open at swap meets, however.

 

[Craptain]

I'm so far behind I'll never catch up.

We were at Habitat for Humanity today not finding anything except I found a Nicholson file (2nd Cut) with a handle in good shape for $3 and a wood chisel with a nice but rough wood handle for $1.

I thought I should rescue the wood chisel. You can never have too many. I picked up some old Stanley plastic handle chisels recently. Not really old but they'll have good steel.



A little wire brushing and you can see

E. C. Simmons
Keen Kutter



I think it was worth a dollar...

I have a few good chisels and a bunch of "beater" chisels. Always worthwhile picking them up.

 

[y'sguy]

I'm glad to see you stirring about Andy. Welcome back.

 

[Sifan]

They lasted a year before the first recharge. Of course they aren't used every day.

Ours lasted 6 months before first recharge. Ours gets used multiple times every day. Mrs. loves them, that's all that matters.

 

[Grizz1963]

I keep in touch with Andy via WhatsApp and video calls through the year until my next visit.

The man seriously is a machine.

This week on video he showed me around the new fences and gates he is building. Using steel and 6 foot Cedar boards, milled by him, by hand, from trees on site.

Amazing work.

Andy also loves his animals and it’s always clear they love him and see him as pack leader.

So I was really saddened when he sent me some pics of a new rescue dog, well, *****, called BobbieG that he had given a new home to, that got killed out on the road.
More sad was how his other, older rescue dog Ghirardelli was affected by her death.

Pics show how Andy found them, Ghirardelli loyally guarding her lifeless body and the obvious confusion and sadness when Andy buried her.


Dogs are incredibly loyal. So much more than most humans.

I made a short video of them playing out in the yard as a tribute to a lovely dog.

Animals really know how to be kind.

Life is still good.



.

 

[Grizz1963]

More chatting results in more sharing.

Take a looksee here.

Go Andy !!!!

And some random photos




.

 

[XJSuperman]

Wow, always the busy bee, Andy.

 

[Joemctag]

One of the top builds yet. And because you’re an engineer, NO accidents, dropped pieces, failed scaffolding.
Let me get this straight : you have a GRaeAT grandson who has 4 kids. And you’re up there doing yourroof framing? I totally salute you!
I guess people from oilfield country are made of sterner stuff!
As an ex-ironworker, I’ve seen countless accidents invoving







buckkled jibs, operator not knowing the load, or just ignorant ironworkers not appreciating the hazards, that resulted in accidents.
I believe in engineering.

accidents.

 

[Joemctag]

One of the top builds yet. And because you’re an engineer, NO accidents, dropped pieces, failed scaffolding.
Let me get this straight : you have a GRaeAT grandson who has 4 kids. And you’re up there doing yourroof framing? I totally salute you!
I guess people from oilfield country are made of sterner stuff!
As an ex-ironworker, I’ve seen countless accidents invoving







buckkled jibs, operator not knowing the load, or just ignorant ironworkers not appreciating the hazards, that resulted in accidents.
I believe in engineering.

accidents.

Every time you built a scaffold, you were considering loads, which is why you didn’t have any accidents.

 

[Grizz1963]

Every time you built a scaffold, you were considering loads, which is why you didn’t have any accidents.

I have visited Andy every year since 2017 and every year we do some fun stuff.

In 2019 four of us were guests and we did a load of casting and smithing.

Andy is constantly teaching and assessing

This year, 2024, @CraigRK and I were working in the forge and woodshop and again, despite both of us being adults with machines, tools and aged 55 and 61 respectively, Andy reiterated the drills and reminded us of safety precautions.

To me, no time spent with him is never wasted or ever long enough.

Learning from Andy is a pleasure



Amazing to think he built the 5 story house on a cliff that the view is from.
Right down to felling and milling the trees for the veranda.

 

[zanyad]

I love that fan on the porch!

 

[Grizz1963]

Anyone interested in seeing the outcome of the fence and gate Andy built??

 

[Grizz1963]

I love that fan on the porch!

The installation and starting it up is on my YouTube channel in my road trip report

 

[jbmatth]

He certainly doesn't do anything half way, well done Andy.

JB

 

[oldironfarmer]

ANDY, welcome back. I was just at a threshing show where someone was making brooms and the famous broommaker/farmer/metallurgist/homebuilder of GJ of course came to mind.

Thanks for the kind words!

Last broom he taught, on Friday.

Actually it was the only one that Friday.

Nice score on those chisels!

Thanks Rick. Too good to pass on. Almost free.

The older I get, the more I appreciate a good set of chisels. I barely ever used them except for the wrong purpose years back. These days with a better eye, I find uses all the time. I don't have any that are worth caring about, the eyes are open at swap meets, however.

It is really nice to grab a chisel and find you've already sharpened it.

I have a few good chisels and a bunch of "beater" chisels. Always worthwhile picking them up.

Hey Andrew! Funny thing, I gave away a boxed set of chisels recently. I always kept them for "good" but always have good chisels to use. Gave them to a young man who appreciated them.

I'm glad to see you stirring about Andy. Welcome back.

Yeah, I got bored of waiting for you to come visit so thought I'd better do something.

Ours lasted 6 months before first recharge. Ours gets used multiple times every day. Mrs. loves them, that's all that matters.

Hers rearely get used, but worth the money when they are needed.

I keep in touch with Andy via WhatsApp and video calls through the year until my next visit.

The man seriously is a machine.

This week on video he showed me around the new fences and gates he is building. Using steel and 6 foot Cedar boards, milled by him, by hand, from trees on site.

Amazing work.

Andy also loves his animals and it’s always clear they love him and see him as pack leader.

So I was really saddened when he sent me some pics of a new rescue dog, well, *****, called BobbieG that he had given a new home to, that got killed out on the road.
More sad was how his other, older rescue dog Ghirardelli was affected by her death.

Pics show how Andy found them, Ghirardelli loyally guarding her lifeless body and the obvious confusion and sadness when Andy buried her.


Dogs are incredibly loyal. So much more than most humans.

I made a short video of them playing out in the yard as a tribute to a lovely dog.

Animals really know how to be kind.

Life is still good.



.

Thanks for the video Rian. It made me weep.

More chatting results in more sharing.

Take a looksee here.

Go Andy !!!!

And some random photos




.

You save me a lot of bandwidth by posting pictures Mate.

Wow, always the busy bee, Andy.

Ummm, thanks? Bees don't live too long...

 

[jblnut]

I have enjoyed your thread since the beginning Andy and I’m happy you’re doing what you enjoy. Thank you for gracing us with your keystrokes once again !!

I truly hope all is well. We still daily use the trivit you built Mama Bear so many years ago. It has become part of our daily lives and for that we’re all grateful.

 

[oldironfarmer]

One of the top builds yet. And because you’re an engineer, NO accidents, dropped pieces, failed scaffolding.
Let me get this straight : you have a GRaeAT grandson who has 4 kids. And you’re up there doing yourroof framing? I totally salute you!
I guess people from oilfield country are made of sterner stuff!
As an ex-ironworker, I’ve seen countless accidents invoving







buckkled jibs, operator not knowing the load, or just ignorant ironworkers not appreciating the hazards, that resulted in accidents.
I believe in engineering.

accidents.

Thanks for the kind comments Joe! Aren't your great grandchildren supposed to have kids?

I have great respect for ironworkers. I've got a section of a riveted joint from 1916 or earlier I'm going to post pictures of. It is a really riveting subject.

My first job out of college was with TVA and spent some time at Cumberland Steam Plant. 1971. I was there for Unit One startup but was trying to take the elevator on Unit Two up to about the tenth level. The OE running the elevator was giving me a hard time. Finally sent me over to an ironworker. He made me stand on a beam and hang onto a sling. Then they ran me up to the current iron elevation. The beam was spinning slowly and I didn't know I was close to the structure. A big ironworker grabbed me from behind and pulled me off the beam. I was scared. The OE had the elevator waiting to take me where I wanted to go. Great bunch of guys. Might have bent a safety rule or twelve. The rest of the time I was on site those guys treated me like a king. My boss rode up the elevator with me to look at a problem one day. He warned me the crafts were obstinate and wouldn't cooperate.

I just kept my mouth shut and the hands on the job took care of us. The old man was amazed.

Every time you built a scaffold, you were considering loads, which is why you didn’t have any accidents.

Thank you, I've done some refinery turnarounds and have been around some work. Used to do rigging plans for multi hundred ton picks. There are lots of opportunities for great unhappiness. Around home I tend to pretend it's a big pick so I rarely hurt myself trying to hustle something I can't handle. Today I unloaded a Chevy rear axle from my pickup and opted to use the little jib on my Bobcat so I could handle a load I almost could do by hand and not drop one end into the dirt.

I have visited Andy every year since 2017 and every year we do some fun stuff.

In 2019 four of us were guests and we did a load of casting and smithing.

Andy is constantly teaching and assessing

This year, 2024, @CraigRK and I were working in the forge and woodshop and again, despite both of us being adults with machines, tools and aged 55 and 61 respectively, Andy reiterated the drills and reminded us of safety precautions.

To me, no time spent with him is never wasted or ever long enough.

Learning from Andy is a pleasure



Amazing to think he built the 5 story house on a cliff that the view is from.
Right down to felling and milling the trees for the veranda.

Such kind words from a guy who knows me better than that.

Rian is always interested in doing something different. Even when women are not involved...

I love that fan on the porch!

Thanks! It was a gift from a mechanic friend, I was surprised when we lit it up and it rotated.

Anyone interested in seeing the outcome of the fence and gate Andy built??

I already saw that.

The installation and starting it up is on my YouTube channel in my road trip report

Thanks, Rian.

He certainly doesn't do anything half way, well done Andy.

JB

You should really know better than that, JB, but thank you. Or are you saying I have half-vast knowledge?

 

[oldironfarmer]

I have enjoyed your thread since the beginning Andy and I’m happy you’re doing what you enjoy. Thank you for gracing us with your keystrokes once again !!

I truly hope all is well. We still daily use the trivit you built Mama Bear so many years ago. It has become part of our daily lives and for that we’re all grateful.

Thanks!

I am embarrassed when I try to read your thread. I'm a slacker...

 

[oldironfarmer]

Rian published pictures of the gate we made. I want to offer some more details.



The frame is 2x4 14 gauge steel tubing. The uprights are 3/4" 16 gauge tubing. Because it is cantilevered the weight needed to be held down while still providing strength. Since the support beams are placed close to the gate there was no room for the chain drive next to the gate. While that is not ideal, I do like having the gate close to the supports.

The gate weights almost 400# so when it is fully closed there is an uplift on the far support, up to 900# depending on ice and snow and maybe a kid riding on it.



The operator we chose uses a magnet on the gate to trip the limit switch. The magnets were to be mounted 1" within 1/8" from the limit switch inside the housing on top of the operator. That wouldn't work with my setup so I had to remove the limit switch, extend the wires, and mount it in a plastic box outside the operator. I ran brass pipe for conduit to hold the grey box firmly in place.

Here's the operator before I removed the switch, it's the black flat piece on the left with yellow, black, and red wires. This picture was so I could remember.



Here's a shot of the rear support and foundation. This foundation weighs about 1,200# to make sure it stays in place.



Rollers run on 1x1x1/8" angle iron welded to the top and bottom. I set the brackets extra high and low to enable adjusting the wheel elevations. I struggled a long time with how to adjust the wheels. I wanted a pivot or cam with a crank of some kind to adjust but finally settled on long bolts with stacked washers reasoning it would be solid and frequent adjustment would not be required.



I could make thin shims but would up with an extra washer on one side to get a fine adjustment. Of course the height of the angle iron rails is not precise, the box tubing is not perfectly straight, so I played around with it to get it as tight as possible without binding in the wide areas.

It runs pretty smoothly and the magnets stop it consistently every time within 1/4".

It sometimes bangs a bit as the guide pin enters the guide. Sometimes it doesn't. I thought about running it between two posts but the pin works and keeps someone from pushing the gate to slip in.

My phone picked up the sound nicely. It's not really this loud.

 

[Finallygotit]

Nice work Andy!!

 

[oldironfarmer]

A word about rivets.

Rivets are a magnificent design. These days they are maligned by many but the real reason they aren't used more is the cost of labor. That resulted in a lack of skilled craftsmen who can put them in.

Many tall buildings, bridges, and pressure vessels are only riveted. OK, riveted pressure vessels are quickly fading.

I knew that rivets had to be put in hot and headed quickly so when the rivet cools it is in tension, holding the joint tighter. What i didn't have a good feel for is how hot they were put in. Many modern blacksmiths, myself included, use a rivet forge for blacksmithing. They were as common as welding machines back when they were needed. Some are only stamped steel but if not left out to rust are still good 120 years later. Even the old blowers (called bellows) are till good.

In the new house I used some beams from an old bridge I had salvaged years ago. 5" channel riveted to a 1/4" by 10" plate back to back. Lattice work was riveted to the opposite side to make a box section so it wouldn't twist. May civil engineer friend verified they were plenty adequate.



Here's a left over piece. And here are the beams inside the house with clips to hold the ends of trusses. We're talking a serious load.



I used two of them for uprights holding up the exterior deck.



When it came time to trim the uprights to length I used a porta band. The drop off was very surprising to me.



Things to note:

1 The holes were punched properly from the future head side of the material. See how each hold tapers from the head to the joint.

2 The rivets were so hot they flowed into imperfections in the hole. On the near rivet there is a lot of metal displaced at the joint.

3 These were installed around 1916 and maybe several years earlier. The channel is marked Cambria which was one of the large iron works in America. It sold in 1916, perhaps the steel was rolled and in stock. Oklahoma became a state in 1907, it is doubtful this bridge was built very many years before statehood.

At least I learned something...

 

[Mr.zippy]

Nice Andy! The photos and write up are riveting! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Bob Heine]

It sometimes bangs a bit as the guide pin enters the guide. Sometimes it doesn't. I thought about running it between two posts but the pin works and keeps someone from pushing the gate to slip in.

Andy, that sound would get the attention of any prison parolee. A recording of a pump action shotgun cocking would probably have a similar effect on your average petty thief.

 

[oldironfarmer]

Nice work Andy!!

Thanks for the kind words!

Nice Andy! The photos and write up are riveting! Thanks for sharing.

Just a minute, are you trying to be funny?

Andy, that sound would get the attention of any prison parolee. A recording of a pump action shotgun cocking would probably have a similar effect on your average petty thief.

It is a reassuring sound.

Hmmm, I wonder if there's a shotgun cocking file on my iPhone...

Reminds me of the guy whose phone started cackling like a hen in a large business meeting. He sheepishly says "my wife".

 

[jbmatth]

Great job on the gate Andy, lots of good design elements put into it and much more cost effective than having one built by the gate guys that charge an extraordinary fee for similar. The last riveted pressure vessel I worked around was retired in 2016. I'd bet there are a few still around oil wells but not in the refineries I work in. There are still a ton of atmospheric pressure storage tanks in service that are riveted as I'm sure you see often.

JB

 

[oldironfarmer]

Great job on the gate Andy, lots of good design elements put into it and much more cost effective than having one built by the gate guys that charge an extraordinary fee for similar. The last riveted pressure vessel I worked around was retired in 2016. I'd bet there are a few still around oil wells but not in the refineries I work in. There are still a ton of atmospheric pressure storage tanks in service that are riveted as I'm sure you see often.

JB

Thanks, JB.

Building a gate is a significant tradeoff between strength and weight. Most commercial gates are quite light and fit for service but feel pretty flimsy if you shake them. Those that are home made tend to be very strong and very heavy and consequentially hard to hold up over long service. Twenty years will tell whether this was an adequate design however in twenty years, at 96, I'll probably not be the guy to replace it. I'm starting to take this "Twenty and Out" club stuff seriously.

She wants finials on top of the posts. Metal ones are too expensive and plastic ones seem short term. So my plan is to cast them. I think I need 38, so I need to make at least 2 per year.

The Riveting Subject

The last pressurized riveted vessels we had in Tulsa were flare knockout drums. They were recycled pressure vessels. Of course a knockout drum doesn't see much pressure. Hopefully.

JB knows, but for other interested folks, caulking rivets was a procedure of tightening them up with a rivet gun, cold I think. Perhaps creating more of a mushroom shape on the rivet head where the rim of the head would push down pulling on the shank thus tightening the joint. Most guys on the job knew you could do it but none of them knew how, including me. So the solution was to weld around a leaking rivet. This invariably caused adjacent rivets to leak. So there are lots of old tanks out there with all the rivets welded up. Tedious but effective and much cheaper than replacing the tank.

Tanks a lot.

 

[Sifan]

All this rivet talk is bringing back painful memories of riveting sickle sections for mowers and combines.
How would you like to rivet a 50ft platform? No thank you!

 

[kitdoctor]

That is some serious gate and motorised opener/closer.

 

[oldironfarmer]

All this rivet talk is bringing back painful memories of riveting sickle sections for mowers and combines.
How would you like to rivet a 50ft platform? No thank you!

I've riveted my share of sickle sections. Then I got a fancy punch on one side/rivet header on the other and life was easier for a few months. Cold chisel of both rivet heads and the punch makes short work of it. The header makes the most beautiful cold rivets ever. And in the mower. A bigger deal in a swather or haybine when it's tough to pull the knife. About when I got good at it the bolted sections came out. Seemed like they just couldn't be as good. Nope, better.

That is some serious gate and motorised opener/closer.

Thanks, Mate. Not a really expensive operator but so far it works a treat.

 

[oldironfarmer]

It's not a big thing, but it gave me joy.

I'm having fits finding an air leak in my Bobcat fuel system. I'm changing one section at a time to find the source of an air lock when it sets for more than a day. During this effort I changed all the fuel hose. 5/16" ID. After getting new hose on I realized the primer bulb should be 1/4". And probably the tank fitting. But the booster pump is definitely 5/16". Even though there is no leak under pressure and the hose is squeezed like a waitress passing by Grizz in a diner I realize a tiny misfit may be my problem.

So I needed a 1/4" by 5/16" adapter. Which I pretty much knew was not available except in plastic due to previous efforts to screw equipment up. And even though the primer bulb has nylon ends I wanted a brass adapter.

I can rescue myself!

So I set about to make one after I half-heartedly looked at a couple of auto parts stores.

I had some brass hex I had cast to make punches with the overrun from a couple of pours.



Stick it in the lathe



And take a light cut

Hey! It's a start.

A couple of more light passes

And we're getting somewhere



Now we can cut a little faster

Almost there



Let's see what we've got



0.502" (Yes, the old micrometer is a little funky but this is 0.502, at an even measurement you can't see the line but I've learned to love it, an old Starret that never lets me down)

Now turn it down to finished diameter and part it off so I can turn it around.

Face off the end



Cut down the end

Cut to a couple of thousandths over the hose diameter, leaving a 0.040" swell at the end



Center drill so the drill bit won't walk when it is started



Then push the drill halfway through

I like drilling on a lathe because I'm spinning with the bit

Chamfer the hole, turn the fitting around in the chuck and do it all over again but for the other size. Then drill from the other end.

So here it is



We be done now. I find this to be very satisfying, having the need, previously cast the stock from scrap, and making exactly what I want instead of stacking up three overpriced fittings.

 

[oldironfarmer]

And installed.



And yes, it didn't solve the air leak problem. Next I'm going to replace the lift pump, then the primer bulb. But I don't need the Bobcat right now so I'm replacing things one step at a time to determine where the issue originates. The lift pump is only three years old but was a $20 import...

 

[jbmatth]

Work wise I haven't been involve in any leaking rivet repairs most have been welded up at this point. Your leak could be on the suction side of the lift pump, small enough to not make trouble during operation when the lift pump is working but leaks down over time. Good luck with the repair either way.

JB