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Combination square: Starrett vs Mitutoyo

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hemdale

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Hi guys,

Please help me decide. :eyecrazy:

Ok you're the US so you'll probably be more inclined in recommanding me to get a Starrett product ! :lol:

So far, I'm hesitating between these two:

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/p...-Tools/Squares/Combination-Squares/C11MHC-300

I love their "wrinkle black" finish...

41Xbg6xZ4XL._SL500_AA500_.jpg



Or, it would be Mitutoyo:
180-931U.jpg

and adding this as well:
Mitutoyo-180-202.jpg


What do you guys think ?

If budget wasn't a concern ? I think Mitutoyo will slightly be cheaper...
 
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Adam.C

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The graduations on the Starrett rulers are still superior to Mits in my opinion. Starrett satin chrome is the easiest to read rules out there. It's the size of the graduations, depth of marks, etc
The Starrett hardened heads are highly prized for resale. For a new tool, I'm not sure it matters
 
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ddawg16

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I would go Mitutoyo.....the 'black crinkle' finish is not going to make the tool any more accurate.
 
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Mavawreck

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I'm not experienced with Mitutoyo products but I've also been under the impression they were top notch. I recently purchased a vintage Starrett combination square (which hasn't arrived yet) and a new Starrett combination square (which was beautiful and had a signed qc slip in the box).

What sort of work will you be using it for? That may impact the recommendation.
 
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Skin

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The Mitutoyo is clearly marked made in USA, the Starett is not. I like Starrett a lot because they're still US based, and very local to me to boot, but they've infused their line with quite a bit of China. Just keep that in mind before you pay a premium just for the name and make sure its made somewhere acceptable.
 
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mechan

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Skin said:
The Mitutoyo is clearly marked made in USA, the Starett is not. I like Starrett a lot because they're still US based, and very local to me to boot, but they've infused their line with quite a bit of China. Just keep that in mind before you pay a premium just for the name and make sure its made somewhere acceptable.
Click to expand...

If you send an email to Starrett they are (or have been in my experience) very good at responding with the country of origin for a product.
 
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Steve from Socal

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The Mits head shown above is a perfect copy of the Starrett forged head, the Starrett forged heads are smooth gloss black and are considerably more expensive than the cast heads. IF the Starrett pieces are still made in the US I would say buy the Starrett square, as others noted the rules are the difference.

Steve
 
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Skin

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ducksface said:
Made in USA means nothing as quality indication.
Click to expand...

When compared to China, it does. Good things can come from there, but the vast majority is disposable garbage. The primary reason companies manufacture there is for cost cutting. Cost cutting and quality do not go hand in hand. If you haven't figured that out by now then oh well.

Not talking about a HF vs Craftsman square here where differences are trivial both in quality and price. $100-$150 is premium pricing. Probably more for the OP since hes in the EU and is going to be eating VAT on top of that. For a premium price, I want my goods made in first world countries, not 95% of the profit padding some executives bank account while the actual workers in China get a dollar or two and a pat on the back.


mechan said:
If you send an email to Starrett they are (or have been in my experience) very good at responding with the country of origin for a product.
Click to expand...

Well they use to have a damned catalog with USA flags next to things made domestically but it didn't last long before they removed it due to "consumer confusion" or some BS. I find the companies practices as a whole a bit shifty when it comes to marking their products with a COO. Most things simply say Starrett Co Athol Ma which I don't believe is a COO marking that the FTC would enforce since its the HQ location. Kind of like the old Neiko Tools USA thing.
 
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OP
H

hemdale

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Mavawreck said:
What sort of work will you be using it for? That may impact the recommendation.
Click to expand...

I'm making some small cabinets, shelves for my flat. Until recently, I've used a square made of plastic and found out it wasn't that square (off by approx 1°).

Now I have my Stabila level, I would like the rest of my tools to be of a consistent quality...since we all know about the "weak link of the chain" theory.

:thumbup:
 
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Adam.C

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I think some Starrett electronics are made in Asia. To the best of my knowledge, squares and other hard tools are all still made in Athol MA USA.

I have owned all of the varieties of Starrett combination squares, PEC and Mitutoyo. Starrett is obviously best, but all are very good quality. The slot on my MIT ruler was very roughly machined, especially so for a Japanese tool from a precision tool company. The head was nice aside from plastic knobs, plastic head on the scribes which itself wasn't particularly nice. On a web page all these squares may look good. But on the bench, there really isn't much comparison. Starrett invented the combination square and really do still make the best one.

Other thing to remember is that Starrett scales are thicker than everyone else's. That means you can put anyone's rules in a Starrett head, but cannot buy Starretts rules for PEC or MIT. I have 18 and 24" rules. It's nice to have choices. I prefer a 6" for my protractor head.

I have a lot of Starrett stuff, but all mitutoyo digital stuff, and I prefer their gage blocks as we'll. Each company has the stuff they do best. For Starrett, it's clearly rules, combo and double squares to name a few.
 
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OccupantRJ

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hemdale said:
I'm making some small cabinets, shelves for my flat. Until recently, I've used a square made of plastic and found out it wasn't that square (off by approx 1°).

Now I have my Stabila level, I would like the rest of my tools to be of a consistent quality...since we all know about the "weak link of the chain" theory.

:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I have both Mit and Starrett, but I don't think I would let either get close to woodworking. That is a bit of expensive overkill. Mine are reserved exclusively for machining work, not even for metal fab. I have four other old school combination squares for wood and metal fab that probably cost less than $15 each new. Pisses me off if someone uses my precision squares for anything other than machining layout, which is done at a table, where they can stay safe from being knocked off or dropped. Carpenter tools tend to get banged around more than machinist's tools, from my experience.
 
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macgee

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I'm a huge fan of PEC squares and highly recommend them. I have several different high end squares in a dedicated drawer. Whenever someone looks in the drawer they always gravitate to the PEC, there very clean and have exceptional readability.

Having said that, Starrett is the go to in the long run and an excellent investment. The Mit. is also very nice and hard to complain anything about them, there nice but pricey. With hardened PEC being equally as nice and in quality, made in the USA and a lot cheaper, that I will continue to use PEC over Mit. I actually like using my PEC more than my Starrett as it's very easy to read (excellent satin blades) and I won't have to worry about damaging it, they're not hard to replace. My Starrett's are exceptional, I like the feel of them and prefer the adj. knobs over the Mit. ones and I know I can rely on them, I don't have to second guess them. If I have any problems with them, I can always send them back for free to Starrett to get re-calibrated. Starrett satin chrome blades are highly recommended.

I actually replaced my 12" Starrett blade with a 18" PEC with a Starrett head (it's dead square). I use my 6" square the most then I go next to the 18" square.

An 18" square is more critical being square than a 6" square. Having said that, if your looking for very accurate square, don't use an adjustable one but there plenty square for the majority.
 
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PRH44

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OccupantRJ said:
I have both Mit and Starrett, but I don't think I would let either get close to woodworking. That is a bit of expensive overkill. Mine are reserved exclusively for machining work, not even for metal fab. I have four other old school combination squares for wood and metal fab that probably cost less than $15 each new. Pisses me off if someone uses my precision squares for anything other than machining layout, which is done at a table, where they can stay safe from being knocked off or dropped. Carpenter tools tend to get banged around more than machinist's tools, from my experience.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying about carpenters and maybe construction in general.

Fine woodworking working demands precision instruments. As you are machining the wood. Not to the degree of expert machining of steel. But for perfect seamless wood joinery a very accurate square is essential. :thumbup:
 
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jontar

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Stanley makes several combo squares in England, lots of electricians use them for cabinet work and cable tray. They seem to be ok for electrical work, not sure how accurate you need to be.
 
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kenburkholz

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I would go with Starrett. I have never had one single doubt about their products. It is kind of like the gold standard of quality equipment. The mitutoyo seems OK, but somehow doesn't feel, nor look quite as good, The pieces I have I use for wood working only. Ken.
 
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Adam.C

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Skin said:
Nope. Here is just one recent example

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137241
Click to expand...

Oh please. Starrett has plants overseas (just like everybody else). Its not difficult to tell what is and is not made in the US. Did the OP in that thread really think he was buying a set of Starrett #20 master squares for $600? The 12" #20 alone is that much money. If those were #20's they would have been over $1000.

It is the greed of people too cheap to buy real USA made that gives rise to the Chinese knock-offs in the first place. So wrong to buy cheap and then cry foul like the company tricked you.

That said, those Chinese squares may be perfectly good to Starrett's specs. I think Doug Starrett has said publicly (essentially) machinists in Germany or France don't care if their tools come from USA or Asia. They are all imports. They just want the best value for money. I have little doubt those squares are it.
 
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fomocoforrester

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Well I would have said, without a doubt, that if your shop is all Southbend, Bridgeport and Cincinnati - then Starrett is the only choice.

And if it's Hass, Mori-Seki and Toyoda - then Mitutoyo is your only way to go.

But then I read ..........

hemdale said:
I'm making some small cabinets, shelves for my flat. Until recently, I've used a square made of plastic and found out it wasn't that square (off by approx 1°).:thumbup:
Click to expand...

.............. now I just don't think it matters anymore .... :dunno:
 
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rsanter

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Both good quality
Both will get the job done
......buy both

Actually buy either one you can get for the better deal

Bob
 
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Steinmetz

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motoretro said:
I like the Starrett and own one although my go to square is actually a older Lufkin item. Made in Saginaw, Michigan years ago, I just feels better in my hands and my aging eyes seem to pick up the lines better. You can pick these up second hand in excellent condition for quite a savings over the new stuff. I bought mine at a antique shop in a auto industry town where they're were plentiful. My set of Mics are also Lufkin from Saginaw, work like new, are very accurate and just feel right in use.
Motoretro
Click to expand...

I own both Starrett AND Mitutoyo combination sets (a few of each, and various rules for each). Mostly, I use a Lufkin. If I had to select only one that I wanted to keep, the Lufkin would probably be it.
 
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scaron

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i've always been happy with the quality of my johnson combination squares; i have a little 6" one and a larger 16" one; i use them all the time; they work great; they're fairly inexpensive; and completely made in the US...
 
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dr_clyde

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I have the forged and hardened black enamel Starrett combination square set with the center finder and the protractor head. Set me back a couple hundred bucks, but its one of the finest tools I own. I have the 12" and 24" chrome blades. Highly recommend the FORGED ones.

A buddy has a mitutoyo square. I've used it once or twice. Feels well made. I trust the brand name.

Bottom line, either is a good square, and far better than a cast aluminum one any day.
 
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Bob-B

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I too have a complete forged and hardened Starrett set, in addition to a similar Lufkin set, but less the protractor head. Both '60s vintage but top notch in terms of quality.
 
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qwik

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PRH44 said:
I understand what you are saying about carpenters and maybe construction in general.

Fine woodworking working demands precision instruments. As you are machining the wood. Not to the degree of expert machining of steel. But for perfect seamless wood joinery a very accurate square is essential. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
 
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