connecting romex- twist before wirenut?
- Thread starter jdsac
- Start date
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
X2. You can't feed more than one unit from one circuit. They each have to have to be fed from a separate breaker.
Tommy
TommyD
Well-known member
I twist stranded and solid then clip them back some before nutting.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
If 3 fusible disconnects are used at the units the circuit becomes a feeder just like a panel feeder, and is not a branch circuit anymore.
The rule only applies to branch circuits.
DC73
Well-known member
I bought an Ideal Ratch-a-Nut screwdriver when wiring my shop.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NB85LM/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Although the pic doesn't show it, the driver has an opening in the end of the handle that ratchets and is used for tightening wire nuts. Saved my hands from quite a bit of abuse.
I always pre-twist with linesman pliers and then trim before installing the wirenut.
DC
Mustang51js
Well-known member
Funny thing is I went to a house today that had no power in the outlet,opened it up and found outlet with pigtails wire nutted and wrapped in half a roll of tape. After getting all the tape off I pull the nut off and wires weren't pretwisted,and wasn't making a good connection.
mobiledynamics
Well-known member
I don't pretwist with stranded. The nut does it's job
For Solid, I prestwist, snip then nut.
However, after using Wago's, the days of wirenut might be over as not only does it make a pretty damm nice splicebox, but in those rare situations where you go back down the road and want to add another conductor, it's a whole lot easier.
For example, about 6 months ago, I wanted to add another outlet and fished it out to box that had like four 12"s twisted and wirenutted. There was no way I was going to undo the twisted portion, so I ran stranded so that the copper would bite better with the wirenut.
For Solid, I prestwist, snip then nut.
However, after using Wago's, the days of wirenut might be over as not only does it make a pretty damm nice splicebox, but in those rare situations where you go back down the road and want to add another conductor, it's a whole lot easier.
For example, about 6 months ago, I wanted to add another outlet and fished it out to box that had like four 12"s twisted and wirenutted. There was no way I was going to undo the twisted portion, so I ran stranded so that the copper would bite better with the wirenut.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
Im wondering if theyre using the single circuit to feed an outdoor sub panel of some kind on the roof,then feeding each unit separately?
mobiledynamics
Well-known member
Not sure if it's code where you live, but out here, there must be a disconnect for each unit within X distance. In my case, I think 18-24" right next each unit.
bubinga
Well-known member
l am just a DIY'r and my theory on twist vers. not twist, is if the manufacture says not to twist, I usually do not.
Like l said, my grandfather was a Union Sparky for ever, if I wasn't such an *** hat young jerk, that didn't give a **** about learning anything, I could tell you the way he did it. and as far as I recall, the jobs he did on the side, I jacked/stalled around helping him, he never had any comebacks.
It's a pity, some guys grow up early in life, and some late in life.
I could have learned a lot More from him than I did.
Well better late than never I guess?
Like l said, my grandfather was a Union Sparky for ever, if I wasn't such an *** hat young jerk, that didn't give a **** about learning anything, I could tell you the way he did it. and as far as I recall, the jobs he did on the side, I jacked/stalled around helping him, he never had any comebacks.
It's a pity, some guys grow up early in life, and some late in life.
I could have learned a lot More from him than I did.
Well better late than never I guess?
bubinga
Well-known member
Sounds good too.
I don't do a heck of a lot of wiring, just adding an outlet here and there in the garage, but i should try one of those tools, because like l said I think it was in the 2015 garage sale thread, my hands are all messed up right now too. Might save me some grief.
So DC, l take it then you like that tool you showed (not a word)
(Its like they say "Twiced" around here, for twice. )
Zeke
Well-known member
It's not that close. Has to be within line of sight but can be several feet away. I can't cite the exact number. But, you are only allowed 6 feet of Sealtite so you might as well put it within 6'.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
That's not quite true. Sealite is allowed to be run as long as you want when strapped properly. Only 6' can be run unsecured
The disconnects just have to be in the line of sight of the equipment.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
Chuck one of those nut driver things in a cordless drill if youre doing lots of them.
acer66
Well-known member
I use the Klein Multi-Bit Screwdriver/Nut Driver for that.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Chuck one of those nut driver things in a cordless drill if youre doing lots of them.
Anything that can be done can be way overdone, too
EDIT: The employee was fired shortly after this for using meth
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zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
Anything that can be done can be way overdone, too
EDIT: The employee was fired shortly after this for using meth
As he should of been!
The reason he had to tape that was because the meth head used a red freaking wirenut on 2 stranded 14g wires,needed to keep it from falling off.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
The wires were #10, and the tape did nothing for the wirenut except to catch and hold moisture (it was pointed with the base up). The connection already had Scotchkote applied to it.
It was in a 480 volt light pole at a new car dealership.
I was given the task of repairing it, because it was made up entirely wrong and didn't work at all. There were about 20 of these that he had made up.
I had to cut off all the twisted insulated part of it in order to fix it.
It was in a 480 volt light pole at a new car dealership.
I was given the task of repairing it, because it was made up entirely wrong and didn't work at all. There were about 20 of these that he had made up.
I had to cut off all the twisted insulated part of it in order to fix it.
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zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
Those yellow wires are 10s? they look more like control wires in the picture to me anyway.
Mustang51js
Well-known member
What was the issue that they didn't work,did the wires break or not twist onto each other in the nut.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
The wires were #10, and the tape did nothing for the wirenut except to catch and hold moisture (it was pointed with the base up). The connection already had Scotchkote applied to it.
It was in a 480 volt light pole at a new car dealership.
I was given the task of repairing it, because it was made up entirely wrong and didn't work at all. There were about 20 of these that he had made up.
I had to cut off all the twisted insulated part of it in order to fix it.
I see what looks like 1 #10 feeding each leg going into what looks like #12s or maybe 14s.
Anyway I don't know if the wirenuts being taped should be blamed for retaining moisture .
If theres water getting into the wire nuts Id say theres a bigger issue someplace with water leaking that needs to be dealt with,but Im not there looking at the problem 1st hand.
DC73
Well-known member
Yes I liked it just fine. I'd buy it again. It sure made wire nut installation much easier. I did quite a few by hand the morning before it arrived and that was enough to convince me it was a good buy.
DC
bubinga
Well-known member
OK, Thanks DC
teamextreme
Well-known member
Clearly the obvious take-away message here is....only meth-heads use tape on wire nuts, right zmax?
Clearly the obvious take-away message here is....only meth-heads use tape on wire nuts, right zmax?
Not Z-max but tape does have it's place at times, just there "ain't" too many places where it should be used, most of the time it is covering up substandard workmanship since a properly installed connector does not require it.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
A wire to the fixtures was just hanging (one of the Orange wires) loose in the pole, stripped, and contacting the grounded pole, so it got supplied with 277 Volts instead of 480. Another yellow wire was just deadended in the pole. There should have been 3 wires at the connections instead of 2.
Zmaxmotorsports said:
The moisture came from condensation, as do all outdoor installations to some extent or other. It was VERY near the Coast, on Pacific Coast Hwy. Being taped and installed base up, the moisture just didn't have a chance to evaporate.
Here's another example of his stellar work
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mobiledynamics
Well-known member
When outdoors, doesn't the outdoor nuts with the boots (that hold the dielectric silicone) a must for such application. For anything outdoors, I've used anywhere from a Polaris to those *outdoor nuts*, in which the silicone does help to mitigate condensation issues
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
Very good point. I just have never seen a fused disky on a mini split and I have never seen more than one HVAC unit fed from a breaker, even with a fused disky. I have seen one breaker feed a subpanel with separate breakers for individual units/components. I'm not saying that makes it wrong to do it the other way.
Tommy
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dutchgray
Well-known member
Those are standard here in the UK as well, the very old ones were ceramic cased, then Bakelite. Push in Wagos have become very common over the last couple of years, because the speed of installation allows a large cost saving.
I have never seen a wire nut used here, but you can buy them so someone must have.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
A wire to the fixtures was just hanging (one of the Orange wires) loose in the pole, stripped, and contacting the grounded pole, so it got supplied with 277 Volts instead of 480. Another yellow wire was just deadended in the pole. There should have been 3 wires at the connections instead of 2.
The moisture came from condensation, as do all outdoor installations to some extent or other. It was VERY near the Coast, on Pacific Coast Hwy. Being taped and installed base up, the moisture just didn't have a chance to evaporate.
Here's another example of his stellar work
That's some Purdy work there!
How does the moisture evaporate with no air flow inside of fixture?
Coast hwy?Im going to try and make it to carmel/monterrey sometime this summer,I haven't been out there in a couple of years.
Angry welder
Well-known member
I still wrap wirenuts with super 33 from time to time depending on the situation to keep maintenance guys and craigslist electricians from screwing with things,slows them down anyway.
I also wrap my switches and outlets with super 33 before shoving them in the box.
I don't normally twist solid wires before installing wirenuts,I do twist stranded wires together though.
As far as the rookie remark about tape I don't worry too much anymore.Ive still got a couple of active electrical licenses,1 says master electrician and the other says electrical contractor.
Both allow me to work in several different states besides Nebraska,So apparently I have managed to learn something in the last 30 plus years of bending pipe and pulling wire.
I agree, I dont twist solid wire, and depending on application I still wrap the wire nuts with tape. But I am a HVAC guy and you don't want to deal with call backs because something vibrated lose up in a ceiling in a movie theater.
bubinga
Well-known member
l don't know nothing about wire wire nut limits, but isn't that box way too full?That's some Purdy work there!
How does the moisture evaporate with no air flow inside of fixture?
Coast hwy?Im going to try and make it to carmel/monterrey sometime this summer,I haven't been out there in a couple of years.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Clearly the obvious take-away message here is....only meth-heads use tape on wire nuts, right zmax?
Not all people that tape their wirenuts are Meth heads, but all Meth heads tape their wire nuts.
Bubinga, that box is filled to more than twice what it should be.
zmaxmotorsports said:
How does water boil with no airflow inside the pot?
If something vibrates loose, it was either the wrong connector, or improperly installed.
Angry welder
Well-known member
Either way I personally have never had a all back because of my work. Equipment failure maybe but never because of my work.