Wrench-Polisher
Well-known member
Pardon me? My knock off Rolex is made in Germany, the case the bracelet the glass, the movement. Im not paying extra 20,000 for chinese parts and a name
Counterfeit Snap on wrenches? Is there such a thing?
- Thread starter impactims
- Start date
Nobody-named-Olli
Well-known member
Any chance to see the eBay offering/ pictures of the (received?) set?
Kind regards,
Olli
Kind regards,
Olli
All clean, definitely not used.
But who comes across dozens of new snap on wrench sets in the form of loose wrenches? Kinda odd. Or suppose they came across the wrench sets in their oem trays with cardboard graphics, wrapped in plastic. Why would they remove the wrenches and sell them loose? Either scenario is odd. A red flag, but oh well.
I have access to the same set that is absolutely genuine, straight from the truck. I will compare visually and compare weight. I have a scale that resolves down to 1/10 of an ounce. My thinking is that if they are made from the same exact material, the weight should come out exactly the same.
More to come.
But who comes across dozens of new snap on wrench sets in the form of loose wrenches? Kinda odd. Or suppose they came across the wrench sets in their oem trays with cardboard graphics, wrapped in plastic. Why would they remove the wrenches and sell them loose? Either scenario is odd. A red flag, but oh well.
I have access to the same set that is absolutely genuine, straight from the truck. I will compare visually and compare weight. I have a scale that resolves down to 1/10 of an ounce. My thinking is that if they are made from the same exact material, the weight should come out exactly the same.
More to come.
Testing to failure and then compare them to your known real S-O after you test them to failure?
Not going to do that quite yet.Testing to failure and then compare them to your known real S-O after you test them to failure?
My 15mm comes in at 4.4oz
My friend’s comes in at 4.5oz
Not the exact match I was hoping for, but they are from different time periods as seen here. I have not dated them yet. The stampings even look slightly different. Look at the font for the part number.
My new wrench on top, friend’s wrench comparison on bottom.
My friend’s comes in at 4.5oz
Not the exact match I was hoping for, but they are from different time periods as seen here. I have not dated them yet. The stampings even look slightly different. Look at the font for the part number.
My new wrench on top, friend’s wrench comparison on bottom.
At this point, the point is determining whether or not these are counterfeit. Thanks for chipping in. Your feedback is appreciated.
When you're done with your "tests" and you determine they are counterfeit, then what?
What if you can't tell?
I'd guess these are at best grey market. But a few of us asked for the eBay link and that's been secret for some reason
I would return them if I felt that they were counterfeit. Money back guarantee through eBay.
If I can’t tell for sure I would follow my gut instinct.
The listing…
So 3 weighed in exactly the same, one of mine weighed in at 0.5oz over (18mm), one of mine weighed in at 0.5oz under (19mm) and the rest of mine were 0.1 oz or 0.2 oz under.
Not as exact of a match as I was hoping for.
I will move on to some physical measurements.
Not as exact of a match as I was hoping for.
I will move on to some physical measurements.
Nobody-named-Olli
Well-known member
Nobody-named-Olli
Well-known member
Wrenches seem legit to me.
Kind regards,
Olli
Kind regards,
Olli
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Forged wrenches will change over time as dies wear. Pounding red hot metal into shape is tough on tooling.
The continually get thicker until it deemed out of spec and a new die is brought out resetting.
I have measured snap on and wright wrenches I posess in previous threads and they varied significantly to Torque Tfest Channels measurements. For example
"16mm snap on (OEXM160B) was 0.305" (7.747MM) thick to TT 0.287"(7.3MM) a 6% difference. "
Measuring from the same spot within the flank drive, as best I can, I consistently get a rather large difference.
Friends wrench…
My new wrench…
Not looking good.
The box ends are at a different angle. Box ends flush with a flat surface.
Friends wrench…
My new wrench…
Not looking good.
The box ends are at a different angle. Box ends flush with a flat surface.
OK, so I took out a set of SO flank drive plus 4 way wrenches that I know to be legit. I compared them to the friend's wrench set, measuring the open ends at the same spot within the flank drive teeth. Since the flank drive teeth have firm edges to them, it was easy to be in the same spot for each wrench. They measured spot on. The 4 way set measured THE SAME as the friend's set. Every single size measured out spot on.
Then I measured the new set that is in question and compared the measurements the the friend's set and the 4 ways set.
Every singe one was off by a decent amount. A few thousandths to upwards of 10 thousandths. Some were undersized and others were oversized.
Heck, even OVERALL LENGTH is off.
I call BS on this set of wrenches.
At a glance, they look legit. But somehow all the detail is off.
Then I measured the new set that is in question and compared the measurements the the friend's set and the 4 ways set.
Every singe one was off by a decent amount. A few thousandths to upwards of 10 thousandths. Some were undersized and others were oversized.
Heck, even OVERALL LENGTH is off.
I call BS on this set of wrenches.
At a glance, they look legit. But somehow all the detail is off.
Friends set (known good) has the 2019 date code.
The set I bought (set in question) has 2021 date code.
JerseyBoatBuilder
Well-known member
Reminds me of the member that was on here selling Snap On hard handled Harbor Freight Roto ratchets on ebay.
I can't believe it
Meaning? Are you saying that you don't believe they are a counterfeit?
If this is so, I will gladly sell them to you to recover my cost rather than return them. The same amount of money comes back to me so it makes no difference to me whether I return them to the seller or sell them to you.
No, I'm saying 2 pages later you've arrived at the obvious conclusion.
This deal was to good to be true.
The parts aren't premium snap-on and are likely counterfeit, at best diverted rejects.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
You expectations of forging dimensional tolerance misses the mark significantly. Here is a graph showing how much a die changes at multiple different points as it’s used.
It’s from one white papers, there is a lot more out there on the subject.
Then you have employees grinding on belt sanders controlled by hand and then tub polishing. 10 thousands is an insane tolerance to expect for that kind of process done significantly by hand??? Even the box end angle is crude. It shows it all in snap ons video linked below.
Nearly all wrenches on the market are forged and not machined all over. Usually the only actual machining is the broach for the open and clearance hole milled and then broached box end.
The only wrenches that I know that are CNC cut and machines are the tekton hydraulic line wrenches.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
I have seen a lot of Snap-on wrenches and something is off about those, especially that heavy chamfer.
Are all the date codes the same?
Are all the date codes the same?
richfinn
Well-known member
richfinn
Well-known member
I have a fake Chinese Rolex Submariner the kids gave me as a joke (I have a small collection of fairly nice real watches). I was stunned to find they had gone to the trouble of actually incorporating a real automatic movement in the damned thing. I can't give it away even to guys that don't own a watch
ChevyEFI
Well-known member
Post #61 did it for me. The protruding box is unique and it's not the only detail done poorly.
I think Firebrick43 brings up some very good points to keep in mind. I have compared Snap-On combination wrenches that were the same part number, all legitimate Snap-On (not counterfeit) wrenches, and made in different years. It surprised me how significant the differences were.
impactims, thank you for going to the trouble to test and post all of this information. It is helpful information, and we can learn a lot from it.
Joe Mamma
The lettering is off and that is a stamping machine as seen in the video. That has to be the same one wrench to the next. The overall length is off by a decent amount. The overall length of the 15mm wrench, for example, is off by 1/4in. These 2 details are things that would have to be consistent. The parts of the job that are done by hand won’t change overall length and the lettering of the stamping. That’s just 2 details. There are others.
You expectations of forging dimensional tolerance misses the mark significantly. Here is a graph showing how much a die changes at multiple different points as it’s used.
It’s from one white papers, there is a lot more out there on the subject.
Then you have employees grinding on belt sanders controlled by hand and then tub polishing. 10 thousands is an insane tolerance to expect for that kind of process done significantly by hand??? Even the box end angle is crude. It shows it all in snap ons video linked below.
Nearly all wrenches on the market are forged and not machined all over. Usually the only actual machining is the broach for the open and clearance hole milled and then broached box end.
The only wrenches that I know that are CNC cut and machines are the tekton hydraulic line wrenches.