Craftsman BE set values

[ihredo4]

Hello folks, been nearly a year since I was here last. Been way to busy to get online. I lost all these sets in a house fire and need help establishing values on them. Would anyone have any ideas. My mind is all but fried at this point and I don't have any idea any more. Thanks in advance.

Craftsman Socket Set "BE" 1/4" drive. Complete w/40% of Craftsman label intact.
" " " " 3/8" ". Complete w/70% of label.
" " " " 1/2" ". Complete w/60% of label.

I'm thinking $125 (1/4), ? (3/8), and $100 (1/2). Thoughts/Corrections. The guys that sorted and cleaned the place must have tossed them in the dumpster. Kept the books on shelves behind the tools but why the hell they threw them away is beyond me. Thanks

 

[twertsy]

The 9/32 set would bring $125 at least, but I don't think it was BE? I think those were SO made. The others go for a fair bit less.

 

[ihredo4]

I found pictures I posted on here buy can't seem to save and repost them. Anyhow I deleted the 9/32" set as I can't find a picture I've previously posted. Here are the links to the pictures. Thanks again.

1/2" set: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217092
Post #14

3/8" &1/4" sets: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216530&page=2
Post #22

Hope this helps value them. I forgot my "Circle U" ratchets as well. Their in the last thread Post #21

Thanks for any and all help.

 

[four.cycle]

perhaps apples to oranges, but I'll take a stab at it:

Craftsman 1/4" dr. BE socket sets with box (Ebay):

incomplete - sockets/ratchet/breaker only: sold @ $36. 01/24/16

incomplete - sockets/breaker only: sold @ $20. 12/02/15

incomplete - sockets/breaker only: sold @ $40. 11/30/15

incomplete - sockets/breaker/sliding t-bar/3" extension/6" extension: sold $38. 1/27/15

what is curious is that the =V= 1/4" sets seem to command much higher selling prices currently than the "BE" or "circle H".
I've seen =V= sets go as high as $60 + shipping, while "circle H" sets (complete, with all matching pieces) go for $40 - $50 (plus shipping.)

I don't know if you can extrapolate from that any sense of "value" on your sets.
As someone who worked watching sales flows/dollar numbers/user trends/inventory turnover for a few decades, selling prices on Ebay leave me absolutely mystified; you may as well write numbers on the wall and toss darts while blindfolded.

We were discussing "values" in another thread just recently here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320023 (* scroll down to about post #6 *)

So... after all that, best guess estimate (after looking at your photos) of a complete, in original box, BE 1/4" set with all 6-pt and 8-pt sockets/ratchet/breaker (with t-bar)/sliding 't' bar/spinner/3" extension/6" extension/universal joint (exclusive of the speeder handle):
After watching sales on Ebay continually over 120 days, I'd say it would easily fetch ± $100 (plus shipping.)

On the 3/8" and 1/2" sets I'm not even going to try, as I've been pretty much focused on various brands of 1/4" drive sets and Craftsman =V= and -V- 1/2" drive.

^ My best attempt at an answer.

(and something tells me Todd's right on the 9/32" - regardless of what the numbers are on Ebay, some serious collector would pay top dollar for a complete set.)

 

[ihredo4]

Four.cycle, thank you for your comments. I'm glad I could find some pictures here as there was nothing left of the tools here to even look at. I had a car accident I nearly died from about 6 weeks after the fire and the crew cleaning the place for rebuild delivered boxes and boxes of the remnants for us to id. Quite a few things did not get to us so what happened to them I don't know. Figured I would get the best advice here. Thanks all!

 

[four.cycle]

Craftsman 1/4" drive "BE" and "Circle H" socket sets recently listed on Ebay:

note: I am taking the liberty of including in this attempt at an analysis of actual selling prices of both the "BE" and "Circle H" Craftsman 1/4" sets. Both (according to lauver's list of Craftsman production codes) were manufactured by New Britain Machine ca. 1931-1947, so it is reasonable to assume both should have similar values in the collector market.

==

Craftsman 11-pc 1/4" drive BE socket set w/box (301876714895)
9 sockets, breaker, t-bar, box
$40.00 + $6.80 shipping "buy now"
listed 02/19/16 12:06 PST
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cra...:g:d30AAOSwHPlWbxAf&item=301876714895&vxp=mtr
Ended 02/24/16 12:06 PM PST NO SALE

==

Craftsman 10-pc 1/4" drive BE socket set w/box (222024476483)
9 sockets, mis-matched ratchet, box
$10.50 + $7.65 shipping now. 3 bids now. ends Sun. 02/21
listed 02/14/16 18:04 PST
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-10p...476483?hash=item33b1b0a743:g:JPcAAOSwPc9WwTHt
SOLD Feb 21, 2016 , 6:04PM PST $26.00 + $7.65 shipping

==

Craftsman 12-pc 1/4" drive BE socket set w/box (272129653313)
9 sockets, ratchet, breaker, t-bar, box
$74.99 + $10.01 shipping now. 0 bids now. ends Sat. 02/20
OR $99.99 + $10.01 "buy now"
listed 02/10/16 17:00 PST
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-CRA...653313?hash=item3f5c30fa41:g:OaAAAOSw8-tWalIg
Ended: Feb 20, 2016 , 5:00PM PST NO SALE * Re-listed 02/21 $84.99 see below item 281941317350

==

Craftsman 16-pc 1/4" drive BE socket set w/box (281936130092)
12 sockets, ratchet, breaker, t-bar, 6" extension, box
$50.00 incl. shipping OBO "buy now"
listed 02/14/16 16:33 PST
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cra...130092?hash=item41a4b3f02c:g:IbEAAOSwJb9WqAxF
SOLD $45.00 incl. shipping 02/19/16 14:48 PST

==

Craftsman 14-pc 1/4" drive "circle H" set w/box (231853062798)
8 sockets, ratchet, breaker, t-bar, 2 6" extensions, 3" extension, box
$49.50 + $7.85 shipping OBO "buy now"
listed 02/21/16 15:31 PST
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Cra...062798?hash=item35fb84fa8e:g:LfIAAOSwKtVWyki3
Ended 02/24/16 08:33 AM PST (says "ended" but assume that was final selling price) (?)


==

Craftsman 6-pc 1/4" drive BE socket set w/box (331784513603)
4 sockets, ratchet, sliding t-bar, box
$44.99 + $12.00 shipping OBO "buy now"
listed 02/21/16 11:59 PST
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cra...513603?hash=item4d3fe5e843:g:Go8AAOSwe7BWyhVp

==

Craftsman 12-pc 1/4" drive BE socket set w/box (281941317350)
9 sockets, ratchet, breaker, t-bar, box
$84.99 + $5.01 shipping now. 0 bids now. ends Tues. 03/02
OR $119.99 + $5.01 shipping "buy now"
listed 02/21 17:00 PST
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-CRA...317350?hash=item41a50316e6:g:dJEAAOSw7FRWalIn
price reduced to $74.99 incl. shipping 0 bids ends Tues. 03/02 OR $99.99 incl. shipping "buy now"

==

Craftsman 11-pc 1/4" drive BE 12-pt socket set w/original box (301880850929)
sockets, breaker, t-bar, box
used (sockets in exceptionally excellent condition)
BE
$35.00 + $6.80 shipping "buy now"
listed: 02/24/16 12:51 PM PST
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cra...:g:d30AAOSwHPlWbxAf&item=301880850929&vxp=mtr
relisted and SOLD 03/05/16 17:29 PM PST "buy now"

 

[Gear Wolf]

I'll chime in on your Craftsman Circle U Ratchets.

Over the last year, I've pretty much monopolized buying any "very good" condition or better Circle U ratchets on eBay.

The two examples you uploaded photos for here on GJ, had they been cleaned up, would have certainly fallen into the "very good" condition category.

I would have felt comfortable paying $30 - $40 a piece. These are difficult to find in even "fair" condition.

 

[four.cycle]

Dr. Doom - you've lost me there.

from lauver's list: U-circle = Plomb/Penens, ca. 1944 - 1948

The OP asked about a "BE" code 1/4" drive set that had been destroyed in a fire.
I'm fairly new here and on Ebay both - joined both about the same time - so I'm fairly new at this game.
I've been watching prices and picking up stuff off Ebay, and am baffled by some of the selling prices, particularly on the " =V= " code stuff.

Maybe it's pure speculation on my part, but it seems reasonable that both "BE" and "Circle H" stuff would be relatively the same as far as "collector value" - both are New Britain Machine - both date from 1931-1947. That said, I have no clue if one is more abundant than the other, or which might be more "desirable" as far as "collector value", but I suppose that would be open to subjective interpretation.

I've tried to make sense of the " =V= " asking and selling prices, but they're all over the place, and the sheer volume of them listed on Ebay on a daily basis makes that task more than I want to invest myself in.

As for the "Circle U" (1944-1948 Plomb/Penens) - that's a horse of a different color entirely, being wartime-era production as well as a much narrower window of time, so I don't think any fair "comparison" could be made of that code ("Circle U") and any of the others.

I'm more puzzled by your comment about photos - the only photos of Craftsman I've uploaded here was a "Circle H" set I picked up a couple months ago.

:

 

[Gear Wolf]

Fourcycle the OP was asking the questions. That is who my response is detected to.

Read post #3: "...I forgot my "Circle U" ratchets as well. Their in the last thread Post #21..."

The OP is asking for price points of what seems to be 3 BE sets and the Circle U ratchets. The photos for the Circle U ratchets are also found in the links he provided.

I am not making a comparison between BE/Circle H or Circle U ratchets. Surprisingly, "price" or "value" isn't always dictated by rarity for Craftsman ratchets. It seems to be dictated more by popularity on particular pieces.

While Circle U ratchets from my experience are harder to find and harder still to find in decent shape, they do not command large amounts of money. Again, this is just my experience.

Check out my threads if you would like to learn about some special tid bits of information about Craftsman ratchets, or check out the Craftsman USA Ratchet History Project on YouTube. I am the creator of the series.

 

[four.cycle]

ahh... thanks...

Surprisingly, "price" or "value" isn't always dictated by rarity for Craftsman ratchets. It seems to be dictated more by popularity on particular pieces.

care to speculate on what might be the "cause" of "popularity"?
why would the more common " =V= " stuff command much higher prices than the older (and presumably less common) "BE" or "Circle H" stuff?

... and I've checked out your threads and video... you've done a lot of work on that stuff!

 

[Gear Wolf]

I appreciate the comment four.cycle. I'm just warming up. IMO things don't start getting interesting until pre-1967 (the ratchets that came out before the very 1st "Quick Release" ratchets).

I believe that nostalgia is part of the reason. There are some practical reasons too. For example, the 1st "Quick Release" ratchets had more compact housing for the drive components versus the later iterations originally released in 1992, which are known as the "Tear Drop" ratchets by some. The QRs had a reputation or reliability, endurance, and a very attractive price point. The original QRs had the longest run in the Sears Catalog, 26 years, and likely persisted well into the late 1990s as physical stores depleted their remaining stocks.

BE & Circle H are bulky and somewhat cumbersome to use. Plus, Sears didn't start offering repair kits until post-1959, with the "Butterfly" selector ratchet. The =V= era ratchets leading through the -V- era are much slimmer and work more reliably.

Interestingly, the QRs did technically fall under the =V= era. They were originally designed by Moore Drop Forge before their initial release in the Sears Catalog in 1967. There are a few examples out there that do have the =V=, but after their acquisition by Easco, later iterations are the start of the -V- era, which are very plentiful. The =V= era ratchets that predated the -V- QR were in a way Mark 1 and Mark 2 of what would become the QR.

Unfortunately, I could go into many paragraphs as to my theories and support them with what knowledge I've been able to acquire. If you wouldn't mind, for the sake of time, I'll have to give you a rain check for now.

I've been pretty busy over the last 2 months, so the Craftsman USA History Project hit a stall due to time constraints. I've already long acquired the necessary ratchets to tell the tale of the timeline from the beginning to end. For the sake of familiarity, I'm moving backwards from the end of the USA timeline to the beginning. At the moment I'm missing 7 out of the gaggle that exist and these are the hyper rare ones. What I can do is shoot you a message here on GJ and let you know when the new videos are coming up. Or you could subscribe and YouTube you automatically let you know.

I believe I could save myself the carpel tunnel of typing (ha-ha) and probably do a better job with the audio visual support of the videos to explain a few things.


(Ha-ha) going back to the OP. ihredo4 if you need data to backup the price claim let me know. I should be able to help.

 

[four.cycle]

Craftsman 13-pc 1/4" drive 12-pt BE SAE socket set w/original box (272148962116)
7/32" - 9/16"
(missing 1/4" socket, 9/16" is an S-K, ratchet is -V-, one extension is VV, universal joint is GK)
listed 02/27/16 18:16 PST
used
$9.99 + $5.90 shipping now. 0 bids now. ends Tues. 03/08
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Craftsman-1...962116?hash=item3f5d579b44:g:MjQAAOSwKtVW0ioo
SOLD $32.00 + $5.90 shipping 03/08/16 18:16 PM PST


==

Craftsman 10-pc 1/4" drive 6-pt BE SAE socket set w/original box (111918219093)
7/32" - 7/16"
sockets and breaker bar only
listed 02/24/16 12:51 PST
used
$12.50 + $12.92 shipping now. 1 bid now. ends Fri. 03/04
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cra...219093?hash=item1a0ed87f55:g:4CgAAOSwezVW0TAq
SOLD $15.50 + shipping 03/04/16 21:15 PM PST *

==

Craftsman 13-pc 1/4" drive BE SAE socket set w/box (172123763709)
11 sockets, ratchet, and box. (missing 1/4" 6-pt, 3/8" 6-pt, duplicates on others)
used.
BE
listed 03/05/16 13:56 PST
$25.00 + $6.00 shipping now. 0 bids now. ends Sat. 03/12
http://www.ebay.com/itm/17212376370...sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=172123763709&_rdc=1

==

Craftsman 12-pc 1/4" drive BE SAE socket set w/box (201536838101)
9 sockets, breaker bar, 6" extension, and "circle H" ratchet
used. rough.
BE
listed 03/07/16 22:06 PM PST
$49.99 + 46.10 shipping "buy now"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cra...838101?hash=item2eec8819d5:g:6UMAAOSwyjBW3moZ

==


Craftsman 16-pc 1/4" drive 6-pt and 12-pt BE socket set w/box (222048220954)
3/16" - 7/16"
8 BE sockets, breaker, sliding t-bar, 6" flex spinner, slotted screwdriver bit (BE)
(also includes 4 pieces which are not BE and/or not Craftsman product)
(box does not appear to be original)
listed 03/09/16 10:47 AM PST
$75.00 incl. shipping "buy now"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Vintage...220954?hash=item33b31af71a:g:gsgAAOSwu1VW4GVI

==

rev. 03/10/16 01:18 PST