Craftsman Drill Press
- Thread starter FrankLee
- Start date
y'sguy
Well-known member
I'll say!
Hoorn
Well-known member
That looks like another, "what do we do with grandpa's old tools?" situation.
Heck of a deal.
Heck of a deal.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Someone is going to inhale profusely for that deal!This is one hell of a deal if anyone lives in OH. Facebook marketplace.
Cruzan80
Well-known member
Maybe it is just me, but not sure what is so special about it. Has a Varislow, and OEM motor, but light isn't OEM, and has the weird box on the side of the head. Can't tell what the stuff on the table is, but I'd drill bits, nothing amazing. Spent that combined for a benchtop with Varislow ($33) and a floor model '47($45). Benchtop is in the "restore for sale" pile.
Or maybe it just confirms the crazy low pricing I seem to buy these at...
Or maybe it just confirms the crazy low pricing I seem to buy these at...
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
You are right on both counts but you always find really good stuff for cheap so your perspective is skewed
The varislow is worth $200 or more on ebay ...but light isnt oem and the switch box isnt oem. Most folks don't find a varislow equipped model for $33 Even at $100 you could total buy it and part it out for way more. Is it a free drill press with varislow ? No but in my opinion, any varislow equipped press under $150 is a you **** deal. But of course location is also a big factor. This would be considered over priced in Chicago or on the east coast. Out here on the west coast, I dont think I have seen a varislow unit for sale in the past 1.5 years...Cruzan80
Well-known member
Yeah, I understand it was a good price,but was wondering about all of "amazing steal" comments. Ohio is thick on the ground with all kinds of older stuff.
Here it has gotten to the point where I don't send it to friends if it is priced over about 125 for a floor model...If you don't "need" it now, deals are around.
Here it has gotten to the point where I don't send it to friends if it is priced over about 125 for a floor model...If you don't "need" it now, deals are around.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Yes, very true
I can relate to that.. Out here in the PNW , in my collecting niche, there is alot of plomb which most folks cant get elsewhere most places but my friends and I will let stuff languish that most folks would kill for **speaking of varislows, does anyone have control lever and control head ? I have a broken one that is in need of parts.**
Well in my neck of the woods, good deals on 100 and 150 presses are between $50-100. I feel (here in GA) anything over $100 is overpriced for a fixer upper. That being said, the 100s are harder for me to find down here, I can find 150s when I look for them but the 100s are rare and often overpriced. This press is looks complete and has a proper motor (often another issue down here). I don't care about the power box or the light, I would take both off and rebuild the press. The Verislow is another matter all together. I have never seen one here in GA so for us in the deep south that's a big bonus. So if this was in GA, this would be a hell of a deal and if its anywhere else, I still feel its a great price for the press, motor, and verislow.
Hoorn
Well-known member
I bought a Craftsman 150 the other day, a late King-Seeley model, that had an MSA pulley. Of interest, note in the first three pictures the difference between my early 1950s (left) and the early 1960s (right) MSA pulleys. The cast iron body was made far more structurally sound on the later model, also the bearings were changed from Made in USA Norma, to Made in Japan Nachi.
You can also see where the pulley was allowed to ride on the body on the earlier 1950s version.
You can also see where the pulley was allowed to ride on the body on the earlier 1950s version.
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gatewaysysop
Well-known member
Can honestly say I had not noticed this before. Great side-by-side, thanks for sharing this!
Indexmill
Well-known member
Who besides Hoorn or Frank would ever have TWO MSAs at the same time to even be able to compare??
Hoorn
Well-known member
Indexmill, thank you so much for that, but I am not in Frank's league. Just trying to carry on with what Frank started, he did all the heavy lifting.
Indexmill
Well-known member
URW. I know he did. I sure hope he is okay.
Hoorn
Well-known member
I'm certain he is.
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Indexmill
Well-known member
Thank you.
Hoorn
Well-known member
Yesterday I picked up a 1944 Delta 220 with an MSA pulley attachment. I thought it would interesting to compare Delta's version of the Multi-Speed Attachment to the Craftsman.
For those not familiar with the Delta 14-207 drill press, almost always referred to as the DP220 because of the prominent "DP220" casting on the headframe, it was offered with a Slo-Speed or High-Speed pulley. Delta claimed that with the addition of the MSA pulley, the drill press speeds could be reduced to 187 RPM. Craftsman claimed their MSA pulley would reduce speeds to 200 RPM.
Here are the two side by side. The Craftsman on the left, the Delta on the right.
In the picture above, you can see that the Craftsman body rides in a cast iron sleeve, placed wholly inside the column. The Delta body is held by three set screws inside a narrow cast iron sleeve that mounts outside the column, rising above the top of the column. The cast iron protrudes outward and has an additional smaller hole to facilitate the "foot pedal" attachment. Note that the set screws are not centered on the cast iron sleeve but are set closer to one end. That is so 2/3 of the collar can be mounted on the drill press column, and the top third would have the set screws holding the MSA body.
On this particular model Craftsman, it uses a Norma bearing, the Delta uses New Departure.
The body of both are cast iron. Delta's is literally a solid mass of cast iron with a single bore, the Craftsman has been cast with various shaped valleys to access two sets screws, and the bore hole.
Here you can see on the profile of the body where the Delta has been pinned and re-pinned since 1944 using the three set screws.
The outer sleeve of both models.
In the picture above (the Delta is on the left is in this picture) you can see the difference in the pulleys. You will note on the Delta it has gear teeth. That is because this pulley can also be used as the standard high speed spindle pulley. Delta simply repurposed the same pulley for the MSA. The New Departure bearing rides on top of the teeth. It is held in place by the metal cover in the first picture, the Craftsman bearing is held in place by three screws.
In my opinion the Craftsman has an overall better design and is easier to set up. While the cast iron outer sleeve of the Craftsman is a somewhat fragile design, Delta's method of pinning the pulley with three set screws is not ideal. I'm sure this was done to repurpose as many existing accessories as the already offered.
For those not familiar with the Delta 14-207 drill press, almost always referred to as the DP220 because of the prominent "DP220" casting on the headframe, it was offered with a Slo-Speed or High-Speed pulley. Delta claimed that with the addition of the MSA pulley, the drill press speeds could be reduced to 187 RPM. Craftsman claimed their MSA pulley would reduce speeds to 200 RPM.
Here are the two side by side. The Craftsman on the left, the Delta on the right.
In the picture above, you can see that the Craftsman body rides in a cast iron sleeve, placed wholly inside the column. The Delta body is held by three set screws inside a narrow cast iron sleeve that mounts outside the column, rising above the top of the column. The cast iron protrudes outward and has an additional smaller hole to facilitate the "foot pedal" attachment. Note that the set screws are not centered on the cast iron sleeve but are set closer to one end. That is so 2/3 of the collar can be mounted on the drill press column, and the top third would have the set screws holding the MSA body.
On this particular model Craftsman, it uses a Norma bearing, the Delta uses New Departure.
The body of both are cast iron. Delta's is literally a solid mass of cast iron with a single bore, the Craftsman has been cast with various shaped valleys to access two sets screws, and the bore hole.
Here you can see on the profile of the body where the Delta has been pinned and re-pinned since 1944 using the three set screws.
The outer sleeve of both models.
In the picture above (the Delta is on the left is in this picture) you can see the difference in the pulleys. You will note on the Delta it has gear teeth. That is because this pulley can also be used as the standard high speed spindle pulley. Delta simply repurposed the same pulley for the MSA. The New Departure bearing rides on top of the teeth. It is held in place by the metal cover in the first picture, the Craftsman bearing is held in place by three screws.
In my opinion the Craftsman has an overall better design and is easier to set up. While the cast iron outer sleeve of the Craftsman is a somewhat fragile design, Delta's method of pinning the pulley with three set screws is not ideal. I'm sure this was done to repurpose as many existing accessories as the already offered.
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lunarlites
Active member
FrankLee - I have a Craftsman MSA and want to replace the NORMA bearings. The bearings seem to be stuck on the shaft. Which way do you press off the bearing or is there some procedure to get them off safely?
Hoorn
Well-known member
Lunarlites, here is a post from Frank some time ago:
Because MSA/Slo-Speed pulley bearings are more difficult to press off/on, I made a gadget to inject new grease through the gap between the inner races and the shields.
Suffice to say if Frank found difficulty removing the dual bearings on the MSA, it may be worth it to try and renew the grease inside if that is the issue. I have had 3 Craftsman MSA pulleys, 1 Atlas (for model 1060) and 1 Delta. I was able to rejuvenate the old grease inside on a couple with a 2 day oil bath without having to remove any of the bearings.
lunarlites
Active member
Thanks Hoorn. The bearings feel like the grease is all dried out after about 70 years. I'll try the 2 day oil soak first and see how they sound after spinning.
Hoorn
Well-known member
Your welcome. If this does not work, the nuclear option is an overnight soak in simple green. This will absolutely break down the old crusty grease inside, but it will then have to be replaced with more than just allowing oil to seep back in, you'll have to be creative as Frank was and fabricate some type of device to inject grease. There was no accompanying picture to illustrate what his gadget was as it was most likely lost with the GJ format change, but I presume it was a type of syringe. The MSA's are so valuable now, in most cases they are worth more than the actual drill press itself so it's worth preserving the OEM bearings as much as possible.
Plan C would be removal of the bearings. I had a previous MSA (which I had sold) that had a telltale bearing puller divot on the top. The original bearings were still on the MSA so I'm not certain why a PO had removed them. Maybe just to see if he could?
If it came down to this, rather than a bearing puller trying to pull off 2 bearings that are pressed together, possibly popping into a local machine shop could help. If they have a press, perhaps a steel bushing could be used over the inner race to press them off. There are guys on this thread who are more mechanical/experienced than I am and if there is another way other than what I've mentioned I'm sure they will chime in.
Either way, Frank did get them off, but if he said it was difficult, to us mortals that means three ****** knuckles, lots of swearing and a sore shoulder. The bearing puller he uses is a vintage Proto puller.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
for injecting the grease, you can look for a medium syringe in a hobby store (sold for glue applicators...) and then work the tip past the seal,
Indexmill
Well-known member
More importantly than "three ****** knuckles, lots of swearing and a sore shoulder." is ******* up the shaft trying to get the bearings off.
Hoorn - is there anything between the two bearings? Like a shoulder on the shaft or a snap ring? If not, it seems like it should be very easy to press them off together as you suggested using a steel spacer bushing that clears the shaft and picks up the inner race. Maybe need a press with some snot but that is pretty easy.
WIthout ever having seen how Frank made a device for injecting grease into the bearings in-situ, I can imagine boring a piece of aluminum into which you put the bearings/shaft assembly. Bolt on a cover with a Zerk fitting on one end and a small week hole on the other end thus forcing grease thru the two bearings.
Make sense?
Hoorn - is there anything between the two bearings? Like a shoulder on the shaft or a snap ring? If not, it seems like it should be very easy to press them off together as you suggested using a steel spacer bushing that clears the shaft and picks up the inner race. Maybe need a press with some snot but that is pretty easy.
WIthout ever having seen how Frank made a device for injecting grease into the bearings in-situ, I can imagine boring a piece of aluminum into which you put the bearings/shaft assembly. Bolt on a cover with a Zerk fitting on one end and a small week hole on the other end thus forcing grease thru the two bearings.
Make sense?
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Hoorn
Well-known member
Makes sense to me but of all the MSA pulleys I've had, I've never had to pull the bearings. I do not know if there is anything between them. Obviously they'll come off, and a press would be my first choice if they have to come off.
After a couple days of sitting in oil, did that rejuvenate the grease at all?
OK guys, here are my thoughts and experiences on the MSA bearings...
Firstly, I've never removed or replaced MSA bearings from the shaft. I was recounting others that have. Someone early in the thread had slightly damaged the shaft when pressing the shaft into the bearings. I don't recall who that was. I believe a real shop press with some sort of jig should be used instead of a puller.
Secondly, I did make a jig from plumbing fittings to grease MSA bearings in-situ. The main component is a rubber 1-1/2" to 1-1/4" adapter from a sump pump check valve. The bearings fit perfectly in the large end. The pvc components were fabricated to minimize waste of grease.
Original MSA bearings are shielded. I don't believe a syringe would work well on shielded bearings. This jig will not work on sealed bearings. I also don't believe there is any barrier or washer between the two bearing sets.
Thirdly, I read somewhere that bearings should not be packed "full" of grease. I made a second similar jig for compressed air to remove some of the newly injected grease.
Lastly, injecting new grease should not be a substitute for replacing bearings when needed.
Firstly, I've never removed or replaced MSA bearings from the shaft. I was recounting others that have. Someone early in the thread had slightly damaged the shaft when pressing the shaft into the bearings. I don't recall who that was. I believe a real shop press with some sort of jig should be used instead of a puller.
Secondly, I did make a jig from plumbing fittings to grease MSA bearings in-situ. The main component is a rubber 1-1/2" to 1-1/4" adapter from a sump pump check valve. The bearings fit perfectly in the large end. The pvc components were fabricated to minimize waste of grease.
Original MSA bearings are shielded. I don't believe a syringe would work well on shielded bearings. This jig will not work on sealed bearings. I also don't believe there is any barrier or washer between the two bearing sets.
Thirdly, I read somewhere that bearings should not be packed "full" of grease. I made a second similar jig for compressed air to remove some of the newly injected grease.
Lastly, injecting new grease should not be a substitute for replacing bearings when needed.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Frank! Glad to see you pop back in!
Hoorn
Well-known member
Welcome back Frank, and thank you.
Smokeshow69
Well-known member
Frank! So glad to see you back! This thread was not the same without you! Hope all is well.
y'sguy
Well-known member
Happy to see you back, Frank.
lunarlites
Active member
Frank, thanks for the alternative and potentially least destructive way to grease the MSA bearings. I'll try that first. No wonder why this is the greatest forum!
Indexmill
Well-known member
GREAT to see you back Frank. We missed you.
The two sets of pictures that you shared are exactly what I imagined but you did it more simply with the rubber adapter.
The jig made of Plexiglass so you can see what is happening is very cool. Thank you.
Indexmill.
The two sets of pictures that you shared are exactly what I imagined but you did it more simply with the rubber adapter.
The jig made of Plexiglass so you can see what is happening is very cool. Thank you.
Indexmill.
Welcome back Frank! You have been missed.
Hoorn I believe you were asking about this chart sometime ago. Frank has agreed for me to share it here.
I am in the process of documenting the development of the classic drill press. This will be in a separate thread and I will link it in this thread once I get it up. Look for something later today. I am hopeful that you all will contribute to the thread.
I do not know if Frank will get this thread sorted out to have the functionality it did PTU (Prior to Upgrade) but I am soooooo glad he is posting again. If he has not already said it, if anyone need to ask him questions or needs help, he is available on the message system here on GJ and or on his ebay account.
Hoorn I believe you were asking about this chart sometime ago. Frank has agreed for me to share it here.
I am in the process of documenting the development of the classic drill press. This will be in a separate thread and I will link it in this thread once I get it up. Look for something later today. I am hopeful that you all will contribute to the thread.
I do not know if Frank will get this thread sorted out to have the functionality it did PTU (Prior to Upgrade) but I am soooooo glad he is posting again. If he has not already said it, if anyone need to ask him questions or needs help, he is available on the message system here on GJ and or on his ebay account.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
11B, something to consider adding to the Table is the base number of speeds, (4 for early and I believe 8 for the later Emerson?) and a Check mark for add on speeds like the third pulley on the early units or the Vari-slow (making for constant speed change or up to 16 for the added pulley. - I don't think the Emmersons had that option?
Outlawmws, good idea. i think when Frank constructed this chart he was primarily concerned with the quill and spindle so that he and others could determine interchangeable parts but I will be developing a more encompassing chart in the future and speeds and accessories will be a consideration.
So my Vintage Classic Craftsman Drill Press Information Thread is up now:
www.garagejournal.com
So my Vintage Classic Craftsman Drill Press Information Thread is up now:
11b30b4's Vintage Classic Craftsman Drill Press Information Thread
I went back and forth over what I would do with this post. Should I make it an additional post to FrankLee’s Craftsman Drill Press thread, or should I start a new thread? I know there are enough of us experienced guys to carry on Frank’s thread but none of us have access to the thread to index...
www.garagejournal.com
Hoorn
Well-known member
11b, new thread is starting out terrific.
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Hoorn
Well-known member
Picked this up today.
