craftsman is going down hill...get over it

[duneslider]

The hands on trades have no one but themselves to blame for the lack of qualified labor.

When you treat labor as an disposable item, people move to careers with more stability and higher wages.

I am sure some treat their employees as disposable labor but we certainly don't. They make great wages, have benefits, paid holidays, extra pay for overtime and holiday work, drive nice company trucks all day, all but hand tools are provided, training/certification is provided free to employee, retirement, clothing and boots and other safety equipment, etc. The company has never had to lay anyone off.

I have to assume you are making a more generalized blanket statement and not talking directly about my post?

 

[atwageman]

The 10$ HF one is a known quanity, no more in it than a couple big Macs. Its not hard to waste 10$ anymore, it would be different if the HF ratchet was 50 and you could get the other one ebay for 15. Getting it at a disposable price may be an asset. Buy an expensive tool you got to worry about it forever. You never hear about anyone wanting a rebuild kit on an HF ratchet.

For the sake of being a smartass Im gonna go to hf and ask for a rebuild kit just to see the response. I would **** myself if they handed me one. Lol

 

[mmack66]

The global economy has been around forever, it's a good thing, lately used as a scare word. The only way for a country to get rich is to take the money from other countries. Take a look at a map of the eastern seaboard. All the older cities and towns are built at the fall line or on deep water. America was a dirt poor country madly shipping coal,cotton, tobacco, furs, etc. off to the global economy. We grew, things changed, industrial revolution came and we went to manufacturing, again shipping off to the global economy.

Thing is manufacturing is and always has been a race to the bottom. Henry ford didn't get rich making the finest car of his day. He figured out how to bang out a good car at a price the masses could afford. That was cutting edge technology at the time. You can't buy a model A anymore. If you're not at the cutting edge you die.

The mass produced, mundane, low level manufacturing has only one area left to improve and that's price. What once was cutting edge now anyone can do. We can't compete with the third world, nor should we. We need to move on to the next new thing. Cat, John Deere, and others are selling top of the line equipment all over the world. Bringing money home. They're not selling riding mowers.

As for American companies outsourcing. It's just not that black and white. Guy in Italy goes to buy a plastic laundry basket, he won't buy an American made one if there was one for sale. If its a Rubbermaid, made in china, we get some money, better than nothing. The third world is growing up, theyve learned to tie their shoes. Next step is to cut out the middle man. Why should Rubbermaid get anything? Soon it will be a wholly Chinese company.

The answer is to stay out front. Do the stuff others don't know how to do. When that guy in Italy buys an iPhone, made in China, 96% of the money comes here. Build it in the U.S. at a higher price sell far fewer and we lose money. China is our cheap labor. Doctors don't answer phones, fill out forms, or check your pulse. All that money coming in to the country means we can afford nicer stuff, like American made billet aluminum iPad holders. There is a place for regular manufacturing in this country. If its the major industry in the future we won't be doing well.

The thing about jobs walking away. In a way they did, it's neither good or bad, it's just reality, the jobs changed. The days of paying Laverne and Shirley to watch beer bottles roll down an assembly line are over. We have a huge shortage of labor in this country, it's not just localized. Right now there are 600,000 vacant manufacturing jobs. Manufacturers are turning down work because they can't fill the orders. These are highly skilled positions, trades robotics, computers etc. Gone are the days you can leave high school and expect $40 an hour to drive a forklift at the GM factory

Great post.

 

[Armstrong1720]

Agreed. I myself being new around here get tired of seeing new threads every other day about the same ********. Yes I'm not happy about SHC decision of outsourcing Craftsman, however I speak with my wallet. I will buy the USA Craftsman until they are all gone. After that time as past, I will shop elsewhere.

Needless to say, everyone on GJ knows how the majority of the people feel about SHC outsourcing the Craftsman brand. So it would be nice for a change to see interesting thread topics beside the bitching and complaining.

Well if yall are tired of the sears threads then why do ya click on it ? Common sense will tell you we are pissin and moanin lol

 

[eddie1278]

I hear people all the time say "if it breaks I'll just get a new one free it's under warranty"

Well can you get a free replacement on your hand when you break it cranking down on a bolt and your cheap chinese **** snaps under pressure?

 

[Armstrong1720]

I actually have seen a guys on here tryin to get their $10 HF plastic warrentied Simply Amazing !!

 

[Bull]

There are some really thoughtful posts in this thread. I've enjoyed reading some of them.

Yeah, we do have too many Sears threads.

Hey, some of you should go out and start some other, more interesting threads and take the focus off Sears. Not enough people take pictures and tell stories about their tools, how they use them, what they use them on, and how you evaluate said tools.

If you don't like the content, generate content.

 

[mmack66]

What is this $10 HF plastic that people are talking about?

 

[Too_Many_Tools]

I am sure some treat their employees as disposable labor but we certainly don't. They make great wages, have benefits, paid holidays, extra pay for overtime and holiday work, drive nice company trucks all day, all but hand tools are provided, training/certification is provided free to employee, retirement, clothing and boots and other safety equipment, etc. The company has never had to lay anyone off.

I have to assume you are making a more generalized blanket statement and not talking directly about my post?

No insult intended.

But it is the truth in so many industries.

Good companies have very little attrition.

There are very few GOOD companies.

When companies lay off hundreds of thousands of skilled people, it should be of no surprise that when the good times come again those skilled people have moved on...and their children have learned the lesson not to follow Mom and Dad into a profession that has little stability and no loyalty to those skilled workers.

 

[Armstrong1720]

What is this $10 HF plastic that people are talking about?

Its a composite handle ratchet. It looks nice though light weight !!

 

[sselander]

If you look around the Sears holdings website, you can pickup some tidbits here and there. One is their global compliance page. They may be outsourcing, but they do have a guidebook at least.

Global Compliance Program for Merchandise Vendors and Factories
http://searsholdings.com/govern/compliance.htm

"Program requirements and all applicable local laws governing such issues as child labor, wages, benefits, working hours, harassment, health and safety, and factory security."

 

[bimmerZ5]

The global economy has been around forever, it's a good thing, lately used as a scare word. The only way for a country to get rich is to take the money from other countries. Take a look at a map of the eastern seaboard. All the older cities and towns are built at the fall line or on deep water. America was a dirt poor country madly shipping coal,cotton, tobacco, furs, etc. off to the global economy. We grew, things changed, industrial revolution came and we went to manufacturing, again shipping off to the global economy.

Thing is manufacturing is and always has been a race to the bottom. Henry ford didn't get rich making the finest car of his day. He figured out how to bang out a good car at a price the masses could afford. That was cutting edge technology at the time. You can't buy a model A anymore. If you're not at the cutting edge you die.

The mass produced, mundane, low level manufacturing has only one area left to improve and that's price. What once was cutting edge now anyone can do. We can't compete with the third world, nor should we. We need to move on to the next new thing. Cat, John Deere, and others are selling top of the line equipment all over the world. Bringing money home. They're not selling riding mowers.

As for American companies outsourcing. It's just not that black and white. Guy in Italy goes to buy a plastic laundry basket, he won't buy an American made one if there was one for sale. If its a Rubbermaid, made in china, we get some money, better than nothing. The third world is growing up, theyve learned to tie their shoes. Next step is to cut out the middle man. Why should Rubbermaid get anything? Soon it will be a wholly Chinese company.

The answer is to stay out front. Do the stuff others don't know how to do. When that guy in Italy buys an iPhone, made in China, 96% of the money comes here. Build it in the U.S. at a higher price sell far fewer and we lose money. China is our cheap labor. Doctors don't answer phones, fill out forms, or check your pulse. All that money coming in to the country means we can afford nicer stuff, like American made billet aluminum iPad holders. There is a place for regular manufacturing in this country. If its the major industry in the future we won't be doing well.

The thing about jobs walking away. In a way they did, it's neither good or bad, it's just reality, the jobs changed. The days of paying Laverne and Shirley to watch beer bottles roll down an assembly line are over. We have a huge shortage of labor in this country, it's not just localized. Right now there are 600,000 vacant manufacturing jobs. Manufacturers are turning down work because they can't fill the orders. These are highly skilled positions, trades robotics, computers etc. Gone are the days you can leave high school and expect $40 an hour to drive a forklift at the GM factory

this is a very good post. it's reality. we, as a nation and peoples, can't expect to remain doing the same thing for decades or centuries and expect nothing to change. the world is changing, and there are new flourishing industries we need to get into. the problem has been that we really didn't prepare our work force for this change... and change, in general, and especially at large scale and fast pace, is always a hard pill to swallow. but all that said, i still believe in the American system... even though some of our fellow peeps are bitching and moaning, the USA has always been the most agile economy in the world. And although we've lost some of that agility due to our own success, I think when push comes to shove, we always meet the challenge. it's going to be challenging to confront the world where China, India are becoming super powers, where the middle-east is converting their oil riches into intellectual wealth, where Africa may become the next cheap labor centers, etc., but the USA has been in these challenges before and have always managed to overcome them.

 

[Jcc76]

I'm an optimist by nature, so I believe there are solutions out there if people are willing to take them. But here are the problems as I see them:

1) It's very expensive to do business in the United States and manufacture anything. There are high federal, state, and local taxes, and in many areas there are incredibly burdensome regulations regarding workers, the environment, and the means of production. These regulations add another layer of expense onto the original cost of doing business.

For instance, here in California, one state law requires every business to pay $5,000 per employee per year in workers' compensation insurance. That means if you have 20 employees, you're on the hook for $100,000 every year before you even turn the lights on. That's not difficult for Wal-Mart or Apple, but for small businesses it can be a killer cost. And that's only one of many.

2) The high cost of labor unions. Don't argue with me about the idea of a "living wage" or avoiding "sweatshop conditions". I get that. What creates high costs is the pervasive attitude among certain Union members that the success of the workers and the success of the company are mutually exclusive, rather than being "married" together.

Unions in this country tend to block innovation, because it may require workers with antiquated skills to be re-trained or laid off. They require all workers in the shop to be paid the same wage and to get promoted based on seniority, which gives no incentive for any younger worker to work harder, be more efficient, or come up with new ideas.

They create Byzantine procedures to enact employee discipline, which in many cases makes it almost impossible for management to fire an employee for bad work, or who comes to work drunk or high. Lastly, when a company is experiencing hard times, they tend to demand that the workers be given the same pay and benefits as they were when times were good, even if that time was 25-30 years earlier.

It also doesn't help that whenever there is a dispute between labor and management, the unions can run to their nearest crony politician and get the full force of the state or federal government on their side.

3) The Anti-Manufacturing culture. There is this growing belief in this country that somehow Americans are "above" manual labor. Manufacturing is seen by many as being "dirty" or for people of low intelligence. Our schools constantly tell students that unless they go to college they will spend the rest of their lives living "below their potential" in virtual poverty. TV shows and the movies contribute to this too, by showing blue collar people as a bunch of stupid rubes who failed to take advantage of opportunities in life, and now pay a lifelong price. See the 90's sitcom "Roseanne".

In addition to this, manufacturing and resource production is seen as bad for the environment, as some sort of "exploitation", and dangerous for the planet. Of course these same people have no problem consuming anything and everything made somewhere else, but are quick to condemn any such activity in their own backyards.

4) Corporate Greed. Most corporations in this country are public, and have shareholders who want to make money. These shareholders can be individuals, insurance companies, retirement accounts, mutual funds, etc. But all of these people want the company to do everything possible to make a dollar. They also push short-term gain over long-term gain because shareholders are impatient and want results NOW. Their attitude is, "Hey Buddy, manufacture in America on your own dime! As long as I'm investing in your company, and you can make an extra buck in China, you do that!!"

These are the entities that keep Unions on the defensive, that move production from Mexico to Asia. After all, Mexico doesn't have U.S. taxes and regulations, but why pay a Mexican the equivalent of $5.00-$6.00 an hour with some benefits when you can pay someone in China $1.00-$2.00 an hour and who cares if they get health care or a retirement? At the same time, this won't last forever. Eventually that Chinese worker will demand a higher wage so he or she can purchase the same consumer goods we want in America.



So, in short, as long as a company can justify the cost of shipping products by boat from China to the U.S. by savings in other areas of its business, manufacturing will continue to move to the Far East. If it becomes cheaper to do business in America, and there are more incentives for these companies to do business in the U.S., then manufacturing will come back.

 

[Brownsfan]

I have seen the argument that Sears was selling USA tools at import prices. I don't agree. They were charging for USA tools IMO. I was looking at 7pc torx bit sockets. Craftsman is 39.99 HF is 8.99. The HF set is Taiwan and the Sears is USA behind the 2 china made sets I had to move. Sears could have kept the tools USA and made money. Instead they wanted to make more and outsource. They could have found other ways to make more profit around their stores. They just took the Easy way. Interesting conversation I had today with a sears hardware manager today. When I asked him to get me the USA ones he said he was at a sears product show and training this month. He said Sears is going to focus on more USA made products from lawn mowers to tools. He said the shift will start to happen after the current supplier contracts run out then they will change. Do I believe this? No. Why? Because if they cared about it they wouldn't have done it in the first place.

 

[genevabuck]

I've had every tool brand known to man kind. Mostly MAC and Snap On, some Craftsman, HF, etc. I have never blown out ratchets like Craftsman. The collect dirt, etc. they are bad. That being said, I tested a few HF swivel ratchets a few years ago. IMO, they are way better than Craftsman.

 

[d.mcfarland]

I have seen the argument that Sears was selling USA tools at import prices. I don't agree. They were charging for USA tools IMO. I was looking at 7pc torx bit sockets. Craftsman is 39.99 HF is 8.99. The HF set is Taiwan and the Sears is USA behind the 2 china made sets I had to move. Sears could have kept the tools USA and made money. Instead they wanted to make more and outsource. They could have found other ways to make more profit around their stores. They just took the Easy way. Interesting conversation I had today with a sears hardware manager today. When I asked him to get me the USA ones he said he was at a sears product show and training this month. He said Sears is going to focus on more USA made products from lawn mowers to tools. He said the shift will start to happen after the current supplier contracts run out then they will change. Do I believe this? No. Why? Because if they cared about it they wouldn't have done it in the first place.

Speciality tools are going to be more because there is no way the company can achieve economies of scale. Torx sockets are more expensive than 3/8 metric sockets for a reason.

Sears most likely makes more than 50% of their profits on tools so for this thread we need to assume that. Technology has made items cheaper to produce but regulations have made overall cost higher.

 

[bimmerZ5]

4) Corporate Greed. Most corporations in this country are public, and have shareholders who want to make money. These shareholders can be individuals, insurance companies, retirement accounts, mutual funds, etc. But all of these people want the company to do everything possible to make a dollar. They also push short-term gain over long-term gain because shareholders are impatient and want results NOW. Their attitude is, "Hey Buddy, manufacture in America on your own dime! As long as I'm investing in your company, and you can make an extra buck in China, you do that!!"

Of all your points, this is the one point that really worries me about the US economy. This drive for quarterly numbers is simply not healthy and results in too much short term thinking. I think it has also contributed to why the US industries have not been investing in its workforce to prepare them for new industries.

 

[Muffduster]

The two biggest reasons companies shift production overseas:

1) Investors
2) The US government

Maybe even vice versa.

 

[ganymede]

No insult intended.

But it is the truth in so many industries... .

The last temp laborer job I worked at epitomized this.
I remember the job site supervisor actually shoved me aside as he walked past me.

 

[d.mcfarland]

The two biggest reasons companies shift production overseas:

1) Investors
2) The US government

Maybe even vice versa.

The only other logical explination would be customer base. A company can likely satisfy only 2 out of the 3 at any given time.

 

[kythri]

I have seen the argument that Sears was selling USA tools at import prices. I don't agree.

Neither do I.

Sears was selling USA tools at SEARS prices.

They were cheaper than other USA-made tools, and they were more expensive then imports.

They were, without a doubt, the sweet spot of tools.

 

[bimmerZ5]

The two biggest reasons companies shift production overseas:

1) Investors
2) The US government

Maybe even vice versa.

and the sad thing about that is:

1) we, the people, are the ones that put our retirement contributions into those investment funds managed by the fund managers that represent the shareholders (the people).

2) we, the people, are the ones who vote the politicians into the US government to represent the people.

so, where did we **** up? or, are those who share these sentiments just the minority and the rest of our neighbors and friends think we're doing just fine?

 

[Pumpman1968]

Dont stone me ! Im against what they did all the way ! But the reason everyone is mad is because we where raised to take care of and buy quality . Now kids are raised to buy throw aways and not taught to keep up with half their tools. So example they go to HF and buy a $10 plastic ratchet when they could have went to ebay and spent $15 for a half worn out proto pear head and it would have lasted them several generations. It amazes me when some people buy HF and wonder if it has a warrenty When it was not built to last !! HELLO common sense !!! Me im not a tool snob but my shop for my trucks are 30 min from town i dont have time to buy throw aways or to loose my tools. So another words crapsman will do wonderful because now Most buy throw **** and since they do it will hurt wright sk proto williams. If im on budget then i save and go to williams or go ebay So our pissin and moanin wont do anything And yes i have a bunch of older american crapsman. So if i need to replace one i will go to ebay

There is something to this as well. Americans really have digressed to a throw away society. There used to be a TV repair shop in every little town. Ever go to the landfill on Saturday morning? LOTS of 5 year old TVs get brought in to be scrapped. And theres even more. Americans have become FAT AND LAZY! Been in a grocery store lately. You don't see Mom picking through the produce for the best tomatoes........you see shopping carts full of frozen pizzas, bottles of soda and bags of chips. Then look at who is pushing the cart..........they look like walking heart attacks.

Another poster was talking about Americans abandoning the skilled labor workforce. Theres some truth to that as well. Anybody here try to hire someone lately? Don't get me wrong....the economy is bad and theres a lot of people looking for work......but how many "prospects" walked in...they have no skills.....nothing to offer...but the only question they have is how many vacation days do they get? And....with they way they look......would you even want some of these people working for you.........to be the face of your company? They come for an interview with the stupid baseball hat on sideways and their pants half way down their *** with their underwear showing!

Americans had it easy for a LONG time.....and we have really, as a society, rested on our laurels. We really don't make the best cars any more......they are better than the Chevy Citations of the 80's, but, there is a reason why GM went bankrupt! Ever drive a Chrysler Sebring??????? No wonder people even bothered to look at buying a Hyundai........which, by the way, is built in Kentucky.....or something like that

Americans need to get off our fat lazy asses and get back to work....and work like we mean it.

 

[basspro]

Pumpman1968, well said! Im 25 and the majority of my generation falls into the category you described, just sad!

 

[Jcc76]

Bimmer,

We screwed up as a people by allowing the media to divert the nation's attention from its real pressing issues to stupid entertainment. Most Americans don't even understand the problem, or even that there is a problem. They care more about drama on "The Bachelor" or who wins "American Idol" or the latest adventures of Honey Boo-Boo than they do about what will directly affect all of us in the next 10-20 years. It's like the whole country's half-asleep in a state of enforced ignorance.

I'm just dreading the event which will finally wake everyone up.

 

[lowbucktruck]

Ditto! Pumpman1968 has it right!!! There are some hard-working Americans, but I feel like its a minority compared to the average U.S. middle-class consumer. Although, I wonder if the middle-class is really shrinking like they say... certainly not shrinking around the waistline! But you know what, the unemployment rate is still pretty high. There are lots of citizens out there who want to go to work, but have been unemployed for over 3 years. That does make it though during a job interview, because they ask about breaks in employment. Its not the great depression, but almost as bad. I really feel for my young nephews in their 20's, just trying to catch a break and find that first really good job.

Some of us are from the old-school of hard work and hard knocks; but I feel (and I could be wrong here, so feel free to tell me) like we are outnumbered by the soft-hands, 9 to 5 crowd of people who don't know how to fix things and throw them away rather than be bothered by repairing it when the warranty expired. It never ceases to amaze me that people will throw away serviceable or repairable items!
(BTW, the wife calls me a dumpster diver, so full disclosure here)

Where I grew up, we had to keep old farm equipment running, one way or another, for the next harvest season. Heck, I had a 1975 Maytag washing machine up until a couple of years ago, that I repaired myself! (don't make them like that anymore)

 

[Muffduster]

This has to be the most ignorant post I have yet to read on here.

"Get back to work".

WHERE?

I'm 20 years old, WHITE, and MALE. I'm strong, and know a lot about both cars and computers. I cannot find work ANYWHERE.

I cannot even find work at a ****** fast flood place.

The real unemployment rate is about 30%. They do not count people who no longer receive unemployment benefits. I have never worked full time (only part time), and so since I never got unemployment, I'm not counted, and thousands of other people are not as well.

Every time manufacturing gets outsourced, thousands, even MILLIONS of jobs are lost.

This has ruined our economy. I don't care if your the smartest economist in history, it does not take an idiot to figure out LESS JOBS=LESS MONEY.

Yet no one gives a **** about our country, we have been going down the ******* since the early 2000's.

We Americans have become the most spineless bunch of people on earth. EVERYONE hates the way things are, but not one damn person is getting of their *** and doing something about it.

If this **** would of happened 100 years ago, there would of been a ******* revolution, people would not stand this ****.

Yet everyone sits on their fat *** and gets it up the *** by the red white and blue **** every day.

Until Americans as a whole stand up and FIGHT for our country,and FIGHT to bring all the jobs back, our country's economy will simply not improve.

You can sit on your hind end and wait for it to improve. Maybe when your 90 years old, you will realize...until the outsourcing reverses, it WON'T.

For those of you who don't care about Craftsman being made in China. Your one stupid **** for brains.

What if every tool manufacture outsourced? What if Snap-On, Proto, Mac, Wright, and others decided to have their tools made in China?

Then would you care? Or would you buy more Chinese ****, not caring that the person who made that tool has now lost their job, and will join the 47 some odd million people on food stamps?

Your/You're used wrong at least a few times in this post.

 

[Brownsfan]

Neither do I.

Sears was selling USA tools at SEARS prices.

They were cheaper than other USA-made tools, and they were more expensive then imports.

They were, without a doubt, the sweet spot of tools.

This is why there is such an uproar on this board. I have thousands invested in craftsman USA tools and it feels almost like a betrayal. They were the "sweet spot". Not cheap like HF not expensive like Snap On. Right in the middle and of decent quality. I have been buying up as much USA MADE craftsman as I can because I know it's almost over. Screwdrivers and pliers are next on the list then western forge has to lay people off. They could have kept it the same and maybe raised the price a bit. But they have board members that need bonus money and stock holders to answer to I guess. And now we truly have crapsman. I also have a ton of snap on and Cornwell so once the USA stuff is gone these 2 guys will get all my money.

 

[Pumpman1968]

Thanks lowbucktruck.......for a minute there, I thought I was ignorant.

 

[lowbucktruck]

This is why there is such an uproar on this board. I have thousands invested in craftsman USA tools and it feels almost like a betrayal. They were the "sweet spot". Not cheap like HF not expensive like Snap On. Right in the middle and of decent quality. I have been buying up as much USA MADE craftsman as I can because I know it's almost over. Screwdrivers and pliers are next on the list then western forge has to lay people off. They could have kept it the same and maybe raised the price a bit. But they have board members that need bonus money and stock holders to answer to I guess. And now we truly have crapsman. I also have a ton of snap on and Cornwell so once the USA stuff is gone these 2 guys will get all my money.

Betrayal is a good choice of words to describe what those of us feel about Sears, when we own many Craftsman tools and have watched the quality decline and now understand that our Craftsman "made in USA" tools will be replaced by outsourced Chinese made tools of dubious quality. You are not alone.

 

[bimmerZ5]

Betrayal is a good choice of words to describe what those of us feel about Sears, when we own many Craftsman tools and have watched the quality decline and now understand that our Craftsman "made in USA" tools will be replaced by outsourced Chinese made tools of dubious quality. You are not alone.

let me ask you this though... say the "made in China" tools turn out to be better quality, and proven by tests and comparisons, etc.... would you still be pissed about your Craftsman investment? I'm just wondering if the issue is that we think "made in China" equates to low quality or if the issue is that many people hate the Chinese?

 

[Brownsfan]

And I also don't agree with the notion that people got to sears because it's cheap. No harbor freight is cheap. People are walking into sears and buying craftsman because their dad did and so did his dad. They know it's quality because that's what dad used and he still has all his. They still just assume its quality and USA made because it always has been. That's what sears is counting on. People still thinking its the same old craftsman an ploping down USA craftsman money for china ****

 

[FiveFinger]

Betrayal is a good choice of words to describe what those of us feel about Sears, when we own many Craftsman tools and have watched the quality decline and now understand that our Craftsman "made in USA" tools will be replaced by outsourced Chinese made tools of dubious quality. You are not alone.

Yep that about sums it up.

 

[cookiemonster]

This has to be the most ignorant post I have yet to read on here.

"Get back to work".

WHERE?

I'm 20 years old, WHITE, and MALE. I'm strong, and know a lot about both cars and computers. I cannot find work ANYWHERE.

I cannot even find work at a ****** fast flood place.

The real unemployment rate is about 30%. They do not count people who no longer receive unemployment benefits. I have never worked full time (only part time), and so since I never got unemployment, I'm not counted, and thousands of other people are not as well.

Every time manufacturing gets outsourced, thousands, even MILLIONS of jobs are lost.

This has ruined our economy. I don't care if your the smartest economist in history, it does not take an idiot to figure out LESS JOBS=LESS MONEY.

Yet no one gives a **** about our country, we have been going down the ******* since the early 2000's.

We Americans have become the most spineless bunch of people on earth. EVERYONE hates the way things are, but not one damn person is getting of their *** and doing something about it.

If this **** would of happened 100 years ago, there would of been a ******* revolution, people would not stand this ****.

Yet everyone sits on their fat *** and gets it up the *** by the red white and blue **** every day.

Until Americans as a whole stand up and FIGHT for our country,and FIGHT to bring all the jobs back, our country's economy will simply not improve.

You can sit on your hind end and wait for it to improve. Maybe when your 90 years old, you will realize...until the outsourcing reverses, it WON'T.

For those of you who don't care about Craftsman being made in China. Your one stupid **** for brains.

What if every tool manufacture outsourced? What if Snap-On, Proto, Mac, Wright, and others decided to have their tools made in China?

Then would you care? Or would you buy more Chinese ****, not caring that the person who made that tool has now lost their job, and will join the 47 some odd million people on food stamps?

Great Comments keep them up.

 

[TimDaToolMan]

let me ask you this though... say the "made in China" tools turn out to be better quality, and proven by tests and comparisons, etc.... would you still be pissed about your Craftsman investment? I'm just wondering if the issue is that we think "made in China" equates to low quality or if the issue is that many people hate the Chinese?

China can make stuff just as good as we can.

It has to do with jobs being lost due to outsourcing. Walk into Walmart. Look at the back of boxes, most things say MADE IN CHINA.

An American worker once made that, but that job he had is now gone, due to the outsourcing, and his name is added to the list of millions of jobless people.

 

[bimmerZ5]

There is something to this as well. Americans really have digressed to a throw away society. There used to be a TV repair shop in every little town. Ever go to the landfill on Saturday morning? LOTS of 5 year old TVs get brought in to be scrapped.

There's a lot of truth to that statement and it really bugs the **** out of me. Every time something breaks in the house and I run down to Home Depot, the associate there just wants to sell me an entire new "whatever is broke" rather than help me repair it. I had a leaky faucet and I took it apart and realized there's a seal O-ring that was worn out. The ******* HD guy was like "oh, you're going to have to replace the whole faucet"... I told him, yeah, they don't make this 18yr old faucet and if I get a new one, it won't match all the others in the house; can't i just repair it? no thanks to that person, I finally found a section where they sold O-rings and found a suitable replacement. Faucet fixed for less than $1. Similar story about my 15 yr old vacuum cleaner... motor brush got worn down and can no longer find a place local to repair it. everyone was telling me to just buy a new one and trash it. finally found a place online that sold the motor brush and fixed it for under $10.

how much perfectly usable stuff are we throwing out? not only that, if that's what's driving our economy (wasteful spending), then our prosperity has totally been an illusion built on artificial demand.

 

[Brownsfan]

let me ask you this though... say the "made in China" tools turn out to be better quality, and proven by tests and comparisons, etc.... would you still be pissed about your Craftsman investment? I'm just wondering if the issue is that we think "made in China" equates to low quality or if the issue is that many people hate the Chinese?

The thing is it won't be better. It's the same supplier but in the china factory. It will stay the same at best. I picked up a china set of wrenches and they look terrible. The infamous lobster claw, chips all over, and a strange oily film on them. Also size markings hard to read. Pretty soon sears will smell like harbor freight

 

[shoturtle]

China can make stuff just as good as we can.

It has to do with jobs being lost due to outsourcing. Walk into Walmart. Look at the back of boxes, most things say MADE IN CHINA.

An American worker once made that, but that job he had is now gone, due to the outsourcing, and his name is added to the list of millions of jobless people.

Well stop going to walmart, they are part of the issue with outsourcing. They were the ones that master the business practice of pressing their supplier till they had no choice but to outsource. With your stance on supporting the american work, you really should not shop at big chains, they all now press their supplier for lower and lower prices.

Sears craftsman are actually one of the last hold out for consumer level tools. While all their competition went overseas earlier, craftsman stay us for quite a bit longer.

 

[Super Sport]

Neither do I.

Sears was selling USA tools at SEARS prices.

They were cheaper than other USA-made tools, and they were more expensive then imports.

They were, without a doubt, the sweet spot of tools.

Most quality imports, such as Husky and Kobalt, sell for very similar prices to Cman. However, no other USA brand comes close in price any more.

It is a sweet spot because people are getting decent quality for decent prices. However, it is no longer viable to produce USA tools and offer them at decent prices. They either would have had to raise prices so they are viewed as high prices by most consumers, or lower production costs to stay in that sweet spot.

People keep comparing Cman prices to those from HF. However, outside of HF (and maybe NT), nobody offers decent quality for anywhere near that price. I've seen so much HF stuff rebranded and selling for 2-3X as much at a number of other stores. If I go into Menards and want some tools, I am lucky to get USA Masterforce stuff for close to what I can get USA Craftsman stuff for (when it is nearly always on sale). However, their Performax brand (which is rebranded HF stuff), comes much closer in price. That's true for nearly every other chain store outside of the two I mentioned above, neither of which come close in having as many locations as Sears.

 

[Cervidae]

Timdatoolman, You should watch the movie series Zeitgeist

Here the intro to one of the movies

You guys should really watch it.