Craftsman Premium Grade Ratchets
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Yeah.. I had to look twice to see the difference.
billymade
Well-known member
Well, even if its slightly thinner; that gives them bragging rights for their marketing! I'm sure they compared the top brands in the market place when they designed these; the fact it is directly compared to Snap-On... tells you something, right?
tonydanzah
Well-known member
that 84 tooth guts looks like it could be put in a 60t or 88t matco
Congratulations on a great American made product. I'll definitely be picking up a complete set.
kythri
Well-known member
Wow, the difference in head thickness looked pretty obvious to me, not to mention the recessed selector switch makes a big difference, as well.
mrholeshot
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I'll tell you, thats one beefy looking and well built ratchet. I think the case deflection that plaqued the raised panel ratchets won't be an issue. I'm really impressed with the thickness in the critical areas. I can't wait to get one of every size. I hope they come out with flex versions soon. I really hope this is just the first of a trend that shoots Craftsman reputation back to where it use to be. They recovered from the Japan Screw up I hope they can recover from their latest episode of shooting themselves in the foot.
mrholeshot
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I can see where somebody may rather spend 20 more dollars for a Snap-On just for the name. One problem I have with Snap-On is they no longer mark ratchets USA. If the USA marking offends foreign buyers then they shouldn't buy them and Snap-On should be proud to mark the USA unless there is a leagal reason they can't like the internals are made in China. If you don't get bogged down in the prestige of the name it looks like a great tool equal if not better than the dual 80. If you have a tool truck coming by every week it may be to the advantage to spend the extra 20 on the Snap-On, if you don't have a tool truck the Craftsman may be the better alternative.
Holy cow, that really is SnapOn territory. I can't think of a single reason I'd want to deal with Sears over SnapOn. If they're behind a display case, that means you've still got to track down a salesperson to even try one. Unfortunately for Sears, tracking down my local SnapOn guy is way easier than tracking down a Sears salesdroid. What happens if the local store decides to stop stocking them and I need a warranty replacement? There goes that benefit.
That said, I'm most disappointed that Sears is choosing to pursue the high end stuff. They've had the Craftsman Pro line. It was decent, it served a niche. What Craftsman has been ignoring is the value stuff. The quality just evaporated from the non-Pro line. How about instead of yet another variant on higher end stuff, focusing on quality *value* products. For example: the raised panel ratchet garbage.
Somehow I don't see this as a learning from past mistakes thing. Instead of Craftsman being a reasonable quality American made tool brand, we've now got two levels of Chinese garbage under the Craftsman umbrella and a new super premium Craftsman brand... that will stay not third world made for how long?
Actually if its something available but the store doesnt stock they order it for you and ship it to you free of charge so that benefit is very much intact.
I agree and disagree. Yes their low end ratchets are trash, but they do have many other tools that are not. Their thin profile ratchet is there for anyone who wants a premium ratchet without breaking the bank. You kinda talk as if it goes raised profile to premium ignoring the thin profile and regular tear drop in between. I find it hard to fault sears for going for a higher quality though i do sorta question where they started. I dont think people who were asking for higher quality tools really meant they wanted an $60 ratchet.
[by the way you can use sears5off50 to at least get it down to 55
]I haven't been excited about a Craftsman product in a long time. I also haven't seen much love for new C-man on this forum in the years that I have been most active.
This thread seems to represent a paradigm shift, of sorts.
I definitely want to try these out, and the commitment to all-USA down to the card stock is a HUGE plus, especially when the "king" of brands is moving away from emphasizing USA-made.
This thread seems to represent a paradigm shift, of sorts.
I definitely want to try these out, and the commitment to all-USA down to the card stock is a HUGE plus, especially when the "king" of brands is moving away from emphasizing USA-made.
Displaced Hokie
Well-known member
Not totally disagreeing here if the Snap-On guy comes to visit every week. Unfortunately for most of us, finding that guy is just about impossible. I've got two Sears within 20 miles. It might take a special trip, but how often most people break tools.
Excellent points on Sears not giving attention to the basics. You know what's coming - a basic and "premium" line. Now the question is whether the "basic" is going to be Craftsman Evolv or Chinese raise panels. No way they will have three lines.
Zebu Fellenz
Well-known member
I'll be giving these a try when they show up in my local Sears and if it's as good as it looks I'll probably get the 1/2" and maybe the 3/8"
If we want to see more premium quality all US made tools we need to vote with our wallets!
If we want to see more premium quality all US made tools we need to vote with our wallets!
GrantCee
Well-known member
My question is going to be about the plating. One of the problems I have with a couple of older raised-panel ratchets is that the plating peels off of the corners.
I work on my cars and tractors and pickups and equipment outdoors (no air conditioned garage here!) and often drop tools in gravel. When I finish a repair I'm usually in a hurry to get back to work, and tools often get tossed into the toolbox for sorting out later. The edges and corners get nicked up, and after a while the chrome starts to peel. I've had to keep a tweezers in the toolbox to pick the occasional chrome sliver from my hand!
As a result I've gravitated to old Proto pearheads because their chrome - properly applied over nickel and copper - wears to base metal but never peels.
I'm wondering if these are going to be "pretty boy" products, or if they'll survive outside of a glass case.
I work on my cars and tractors and pickups and equipment outdoors (no air conditioned garage here!) and often drop tools in gravel. When I finish a repair I'm usually in a hurry to get back to work, and tools often get tossed into the toolbox for sorting out later. The edges and corners get nicked up, and after a while the chrome starts to peel. I've had to keep a tweezers in the toolbox to pick the occasional chrome sliver from my hand!
As a result I've gravitated to old Proto pearheads because their chrome - properly applied over nickel and copper - wears to base metal but never peels.
I'm wondering if these are going to be "pretty boy" products, or if they'll survive outside of a glass case.
mrholeshot
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Chrome has changed due to the epa. It ain't what it use to be and you have to expect that with that kind of use.
Interesting you mention that about the chrome as I have an old Proto LA extension which I evaporusted and to my amazement found copper plating under all the rust. I never imagined that tools would be triple plated. Nothing like quality vintage American tools.
mrholeshot
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Snap-On still uses about the best chrome process in the business. They use Nickel Chrome. Very durable. I'm not a big fan of the old ratchets. The heads are so big it's like using a brick on a broomstick
GrantCee
Well-known member
'Nickel chrome' is a buzzword to excite consumers - it just means chrome over nickel plate. It's nothing special, and I'd venture to say that virtually all decent tools are in fact nickel chrome. It's the only way to get necessary corrosion resistance, as pure chromium is somewhat porous.
When chrome peels it's almost always because the nickel substrate loses adhesion to the base metal. That's the reason for the copper underneath, as it provides a better bond between the nickel and the steel.
I would hope, for the price, that Snap-On is doing a copper/nickel/chrome plating job. Then again, I'd also hope that they were being made in the USA, but we all know how that's working out.
warmpancakes
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Ordered all three today should have in 10 days
shovel
Well-known member
I dont see how anyone could be dissapointed that Sears if offering a USA made quality product! I wish they would pull all the cheap Chinese overpriced stuff off the shelves or re-price it at its true value. The Sears closest to me has a couple of gals that have been there for several years and know their stuff. Good customer service is at Sears is a non-issue for me. Lets just wait and see if they stock these ratchets or if I will have to order them.
Why? Because they're competing (or trying to) with SnapOn. Danaher already has Matco for that. Instead of selling good, better, best. Sears is selling ****, crappier, and best. I don't want or need SnapOn quality, but I don't want (current) Craftsman quality either. Their long standing tool market has been one of good value not cheap Chinese **** and not of (over)priced SnapOn stuff.
It's like the VW Phaeton. Sure it's a relatively nice car, but it sold like a steaming pile of **** because nobody wants a super premium VW. If they're going to pay that premium for that much baked in stupid, they want the proper badge to go with it. A propeller, an L, curly queue B, whatever. Nobody wants an interlocking VW on a super premium car.
And, yeah, for a truck premium I'd expect premium service. If the stores don't get in the habit of stocking them, and warranty exchanges/repairs become an issue... yeah.
After seeing the real pictures I'm a little less excited, although I still do want one.
I don't get why the handle is so completely smooth, there is no knurling, nothing at all. They could cut "craftsman" into the handle, or the patent number, like they usually do.
I don't get why the handle is so completely smooth, there is no knurling, nothing at all. They could cut "craftsman" into the handle, or the patent number, like they usually do.
1. So they make 3 "premium" ratchets and are all of a sudden competitive with Snap-On? Further more even though i find the price very expensive just because its Craftsman, lets remember they're still over $100 cheaper [SO T72 + F & S80 trio =$286.00]. Not exactly a handful of change difference there and you still end up with 3, seemingly, superb quality 84tooth ratchets.
2. What does any of this have to do with Apex (Danaher)? You realize that Sears contracts out to them for some tools and that they dont actually own Craftsman right? The fact that Apex also has factories that make tools for matco is entirely irrelevant. These ratchets are for Sears.
3. So you'll just continue to ignore the thin profile then yes? K, good.
You'd expect a dealer who's non-existant or, if you're lucky, maybe shows up once a week/month for a lot of people requiring mailing in tools for warranty or a dealer who may have to order parts and take a few weeks "premium service".
Wow, you're indeed very kind.
By the way these are just ratchets, not exactly the most complex thing in the world. Again if they dont stock it, you can have it shipped to you for free, but in reality all stores need to do is stock some rebuild kits and everything will be just peachy.
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Craftsman "Premium":
1/4" drive - $50
3/8" drive - $60
1/2" drive - $80
These are all so-called long handles, but the specs are missing so who knows how long.
SnapOn Dual 80s normal handle:
1/4" T72 (4 7/16") - $66 ($16 diff)
3/8" F80 (7 11/32") - $80 ($20 diff)
1/2" S80 (10 5/16") - $140 ($60 diff)
Long handle:
1/4" TL72 (6.5") - $75 ($25 diff)
3/8" FL80 (10 5/16") - $90 ($30 diff)
1/2" SL80 (15") - $143 ($60 diff)
So, yeah. $120 diff if you go with the long SO ratchets. Or, if you go with the standard length SO ratchets, you're talking a hair less than $100 more than the CMan ratchets. The ball buster here is the SO 1/2" ratchet.
If you skip the S80/SL80, you can then go to Amazon and get an SK Tuff1 1/2" for $40, and you've got three proven, quality, American made ratchets for, what, half of what Sears wants? This would leave you with a net savings of $4 if you're after the standard length ratchets, and pare the premium down to $15 for the long handles. That *is* chump change. The Craftsman price point just doesn't do anything for me.
As for Danaher, sure, they don't own Craftsman. But what they're providing Craftsman is a commodity product, which leaves service and price as the main selling point over the Matco/Armstrong/whatever equivalents. Sears has taken a premium Danaher ratchet, and is selling it at a premium price. It doesn't sound much like a recipe for success. If you're worried about the tool truck showing up, you can always mail in warranty claims. Is that going to be much slower than Sears' sometimes lethargic shipping?
The thin ratchets look nice, but they're all locked up so I've not yet played with them. That said, how long will it be before Sears realizes that they're expensive to make and either discontinues them (leaving you SOL for replacement parts) or cheapens them to the extent they have with the raised panel ratchets? Prices on the RPs haven't dropped, but the quality tanked. When's the last time you saw SnapOn cheapen their ratchets to such a large extent?
Hell, what happened to the so-called Professional Craftsman line?
The long and the short of it is that Sears has a reputation for cheap (and previously quality) products. How much of their target market is really interested in dropping SnapOn prices for Craftsman quality?
1/4" drive - $50
3/8" drive - $60
1/2" drive - $80
These are all so-called long handles, but the specs are missing so who knows how long.
SnapOn Dual 80s normal handle:
1/4" T72 (4 7/16") - $66 ($16 diff)
3/8" F80 (7 11/32") - $80 ($20 diff)
1/2" S80 (10 5/16") - $140 ($60 diff)
Long handle:
1/4" TL72 (6.5") - $75 ($25 diff)
3/8" FL80 (10 5/16") - $90 ($30 diff)
1/2" SL80 (15") - $143 ($60 diff)
So, yeah. $120 diff if you go with the long SO ratchets. Or, if you go with the standard length SO ratchets, you're talking a hair less than $100 more than the CMan ratchets. The ball buster here is the SO 1/2" ratchet.
If you skip the S80/SL80, you can then go to Amazon and get an SK Tuff1 1/2" for $40, and you've got three proven, quality, American made ratchets for, what, half of what Sears wants? This would leave you with a net savings of $4 if you're after the standard length ratchets, and pare the premium down to $15 for the long handles. That *is* chump change. The Craftsman price point just doesn't do anything for me.
As for Danaher, sure, they don't own Craftsman. But what they're providing Craftsman is a commodity product, which leaves service and price as the main selling point over the Matco/Armstrong/whatever equivalents. Sears has taken a premium Danaher ratchet, and is selling it at a premium price. It doesn't sound much like a recipe for success. If you're worried about the tool truck showing up, you can always mail in warranty claims. Is that going to be much slower than Sears' sometimes lethargic shipping?
The thin ratchets look nice, but they're all locked up so I've not yet played with them. That said, how long will it be before Sears realizes that they're expensive to make and either discontinues them (leaving you SOL for replacement parts) or cheapens them to the extent they have with the raised panel ratchets? Prices on the RPs haven't dropped, but the quality tanked. When's the last time you saw SnapOn cheapen their ratchets to such a large extent?
Hell, what happened to the so-called Professional Craftsman line?
The long and the short of it is that Sears has a reputation for cheap (and previously quality) products. How much of their target market is really interested in dropping SnapOn prices for Craftsman quality?
Judging by the pictures on page 7 they look quite long. Also they can be cheaper than even what you stated, unlike Snap-On which often isnt discounted [ymmv depending on your dealer]. Sears, online anyway, often runs a 10% event and occasionally in stores, and theres always the 5off50 coupon. That takes the 1/4" down to $45 [no coupon since its shy by .01, the 3/8 down to $49, and the 1/2 down to $67. I really dont think thats unfair pricing comparative to other premium ratchet competition and its sure as heck a lot cheaper than SO. And lets not forget Sears is also proud to stamp USA into their ratchets and have dedicated to making every portion of the package made in the US as well. SO? Not so much. Either its shame or they're importing.
Doesnt change the fact that for many people Sears is a much more viable option than a tool truck. As far as shipping being slow or prompt, thats an "if". I could say the same thing about warranty via mail with a truck brand. It could be worse, look at Armstrong which i believe only uses Fastenal. Still a popular quality brand here.
Thats a very pessimistic view. Why dont you support them and buy a trio? Refusing to purchase them because they may not sell well makes no sense at all since you only contribute to the problem. But for the sake of argument lets just say they do get discontinued, theres still the question of other Danaher kits fitting into the heads which would be great, and theres also the question of how often you actually break a ratchet? Quite a few of mine have never had a kit. Dont mistreat a ratchet and it will last a very very long time.
See i dont quite get you. You say "Craftsman quality" like these ratchets are substandard. Just dont get that. You havent had a chance to use one, you see that they're very expensive for a Craftsman product, the initial pictures look extremely promising, yet you are negative not only of the price but of the actual build quality of the ratchet.
As far as Craftsman Pro, still there last time i checked. If you choose to believe what is still a rumor then the brand will be eliminated with the tools that have sold consistently simply being folded back into the base Craftsman brand tool lineup. Its not like they're eliminating all the tools branded Craftsman Pro.
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mrholeshot
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Blarf, How can you complain when a company that sells tools makes a move in the right direction? Personally it's the first time I've been excited over a Craftsman tool in a long time. As far as how long with they manafacture it heres some news, Snap-On changes stuff on their ratchets every few years or less. I have Snap-On ratchets from the 70's into around 2007. There is something differant about just about everyone of them.
Ive been a tool trucl customer since the early 70's and now that I'm retired the only Snap-On man close by is a snotty acting ********. I don't want to have to mail in ratchets for warranty. For a tool truck quality ratchet for less money and easy warranty I'm all over it.
Ive been a tool trucl customer since the early 70's and now that I'm retired the only Snap-On man close by is a snotty acting ********. I don't want to have to mail in ratchets for warranty. For a tool truck quality ratchet for less money and easy warranty I'm all over it.
mrholeshot
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It's hard to beleive that Sears stepped up to the plate and offered up an excellant quality ratchet and people are bitching about it. The nerve of them to charge for it, Oh the horror, lol
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
When I first saw the handle shape, I thought that a Wright handle and the older Matco handle (which I believe was also Wright) met Cross Force. Smooth handles are nice but, can be slippery. I'll let you know.
Some of you guys are getting all worked up over nothing. They're just ratchets.
Buy some if you're interested or not. Buy what you want.I don't believe for a second that Sears/Apex/Danaher are trying to compete with Snap on or anyone else for that matter by introducing 3 new ratchets. You would have to have a whole new line and new marketing stategy to compete with any of the tool trucks.
These ratchets are simply another choice or option for you to choose from.
Quit comparing them to Snap on. Snap on is NOT the standard everything is measured against. Judge these ratchets on their own merits and how they perform for you. Don't buy these if you really want an F80 series ratchet.
Has anyone actually used one of these ratchets to turn a bolt yet? I've never seen so much knashing of teeth over a product that isn't fully in use yet. Now, let's have some real posts from actual users so, we can form better opinions aside from price and guessing.
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kythri
Well-known member
blarf said:
blarf said:
So, warranty is a big concern, but you're cool with buying the SK, which currently, has zero warranty?
mrholeshot
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I would have to respectfully disagree. While it may or may not be the best ratchet on earth it is the standard by which other hand tools are compared to. The first wrench or ratchet you almost always see another up against is Snap-On. Hazet has done it, Toptul has done it as well as other tool companies. Not only thet but they are the most copied ratchets in the world. You don't get that popular without being the leader. I may knock snap-on on their electronics and the outrageous price of their toolboxes (of which I've owned many) but you will never hear me say anything bad about the quality of their hardline of hand tools. Personally it's what I compared any brand I buy to. over 40 years of using them has made me a beleiver in Snap-On quality. It's not a reputation that comes easy in todays world and even harder to stay there. While I feel them loosing ground it's still the standard by which other tools are judged no matter if they test better or not
billymade
Well-known member
Maybe, Craftsman should do some sort of promotion to get these out in the market place; how about a trade in discount on any ratchet out there.... are you listening phi2039? Get these initial models out in the field; get everyone addicted to these and then you will have addicted (hopefully guaranteed) customers for all the other various types, that you will hopefully roll out in the future! They definitely need a floor demo at the very least and should be carried in every store if you want them to sell; it almost ALWAYS killed a sale if I had to order something. I cannot stress enough; if you want to sell something it needs to be in stock and available for the customer to "touch,feel"... to close the deal; especially, a high end ratchet in the top tier price range of the Craftsman line. If your going for the pro market; offer what they pro's require.... variety! I'm sure we all would like: swivel head, long, extra long (e.g. 24" 1/2" drive) bent handle (for spark plugs), stubby, stubby flex, soft handle, roto head etc. Just some ideas for you guys @ Danaher to think about!
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Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I would have to respectfully disagree. QUOTE]
It's ok.
I have to say it's actually entertaining to sit here and read all these comments about the quality, service, etc. of these ratchets and as of right now only one person has purchased one. Gotta love the internet! I intend on getting at least one but I'm going to wait for a decent sale because I refuse to pay MSRP for anything. Until I purchase mine, receive it and use it, I will not comment on them other than to say they look nice from the photos I've seen.
mrholeshot
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Maybe you need to go back and read again. There is already one person to buy one and has detailed photos of the internals.See post 131. It's entertaining to me to watch people make these simple oversights.
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mrholeshot
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fourfeathers
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Like any Craftsman tool, I have been trained to wait for a sale. That is too much money for a Craftsman ratchet. I would try them at 20% off. Preferably more