Craftsman : series time frame ?

[eschoendorff]

I have many toolboxes, and lots of older Craftsman tools. I did look in on this thread from time to time, and planned to give my old stuff a thorough examination when I got the chance. I do have a life and some important things happening right now that require my attention.

After viewing your latest tirade, I guess I'll just let it sit for awhile longer. I'm happy to volunteer information for the good of all, but as a volunteer, I would not expect to be chastised for straying from your timeframe.

Later...

What he said... except I don't have a bunch of old Craftsman tools.

Lauver... you're making this seem like homework. For many of us, the GJ is an area to discuss common interests in tools, etc... NOT to be given a homework assignment.

Now, if you want to pay me $70,*** per year with benefits, I'll be your Craftsman diggin' ***** and find you all the info I can in your time frame.

Until then... chill. this thread is a work in progress. Don't get all wound up.

Maybe you should post your same query here:

http://craftsmantooltalk.com/BBS/Craftsman_Tool_Collection/flat-page1.html


Good luck in your quest.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I must say that this thread has taken a rather odd twist in the last couple of pages. I view coming here as enjoyment and I do not feel there is any requirement for me to apologise for what I do, or do not contribute to various threads.
There is something to that old saying about catching more flies with honey, but I think someone was not attending school when that life lesson was shared!

 

[lauver]

Wilbilt,

When and if you post your stuff is entirely up to you. It's of no concern to me or "my timeframe". As I said before, I'm over on this thread. If you want to punish the other guys who are still interested in this thread, suit yourself.

Believe it or not, I don't hate you or any other folks on this forum. I'm just disappointed in the lack of effort and personal involvement demonstrated on this thread. Plain and simple, that's it.

In other areas I have to give you guys high marks. In particular, you treat newbies better than I've seen on any other forum. You answer their questions honestly and graciously, even when their questions have been asked and answered 1,000 times before. You guys are also good at problem solving. I've read some solutions here that were way outside the box, but were otherwise very sound ideas and great advice. So keep up the good stuff.

 

[wrenchr]

I think this forum is very cool and it has a very friendly place to talk tools and unwind after a long day.

 

[krusty the clown]

all i can say is WOW...........this has been one of the most active threads in the tools section of this forum and it isn't active enough? i for one have been reading and learning, i didn't know i had a responsibillity to add to it as seemed to be pretty complete. maybe we should have an icon that means all GJ members must participate or risk public ridicule............

 

[wilbilt]

Believe it or not, I don't hate you or any other folks on this forum. I'm just disappointed in the lack of effort and personal involvement demonstrated on this thread. Plain and simple, that's it.

You posted a thread in a public internet forum, and take issue that every member did not immediately decide to eschew all personal responsibilities and dedicate their lives to researching ancient tool history. That strikes me as a bit pretentious.

If I had to guess, I would venture that you are:

a) Independently wealthy
b) A college student (or worse...faculty), with no concept of reality and a desire to become famous, regardless of cost or reputation.

I would like to contribute. I really would, but you need to stop being such a girl scout leader.

 

[billymade]

Actually, 21 pages of responses is pretty impressive for a thread!

 

[eschoendorff]

You posted a thread in a public internet forum, and take issue that every member did not immediately decide to eschew all personal responsibilities and dedicate their lives to researching ancient tool history. That strikes me as a bit pretentious.

If I had to guess, I would venture that you are:

a) Independently wealthy
b) A college student (or worse...faculty), with no concept of reality and a desire to become famous, regardless of cost or reputation.

I would like to contribute. I really would, but you need to stop being such a girl scout leader.

Even they don't put up with this kind of ****...

 

[wrenchr]

hit the weights!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

 

[lauver]

OK guys,

I had my little rant and have vented my frustrations. You guys have done a little venting too. I have read all of your posts carefully and I am willing to stipulate to the majority of your points. There are a few points I take exception too and would like to comment on:

a) I'm not independantly wealthy or a kept man. I'm a working stiff, own my own landscaping company, and put in 60 hour weeks for about half of the year and 80 hour weeks for the rest of the year.

b) I'm not a college student, but I was about 35years ago. And, in my opinion, being a college student is not a bad thing in the first place.

c) I'm not a Girl Scout leader and have no desire to be one. Again, not a bad thing to be though.

d) I do have a concept of reality, but have no desire to be famous in any way, shape, or form.

e) I don't collect tools and own only a handful of vintage tools.

f) I'm not a tool freek in general, or a Craftsman tool freek in particular, although a good portion (about 40 percent) of my tools are Craftsman. The rest are other brands.

g) My interests in this thread are varied. I've always wondered who makes Craftsman tools. I've always wondered what the series codes indicated. And, I've always enjoyed a challenge. Finally, I felt I could contribute to this thread because I have a reasonable cache of Craftsman tools and a tool inventory that includes purchase dates. It sounded like a match made in heaven! Perhaps I was overly ambitious. Perhaps I was overly assertive. And perhaps my particular style rubs you the wrong way. My intent was not to offend. I just wanted to get to the bottom of this thread in a reasonbly short time. In hindsight, I can see where this did not take into account your styles, your interests, or your reasons for participating in this thread.

That said, where do we go from here? I'm thinking I should probably stay away from this thread. I can pursue my interests elsewhere or on my own. But I would like to maintain contact with some of you, from time to time, because you are valuable resources. Are you receptive to the occasional PM from me? I'm not talking homework assignments or tasks; I'm talking simple questions that you may be able to answer off the top of your head. What do you think guys?

 

[T56 Impala]

Maybe you could set up an excel file or something that people could have and maybe add to it or simply have for a reference. I know this would require you to mail it to everyone that might want it though. That could be time consuming for you.

I have no problem with what and or how you are doing it. We all have days where we are not the most politically correct. I for one applaud you for speaking your mind. PC ***** anyway. Just remember, when you speak like that, you let the cat out of the bag! People drop their guard and shots are fired. Take them, as we will take you, with a grain of salt.

 

[billymade]

Have you looked at these pages? They may answer some of your questions if you haven't already been to this site:
http://alloy-artifacts.com/craftsman-early-tools.html
http://alloy-artifacts.com/craftsman-be-hcircle.html
http://alloy-artifacts.com/craftsman-maker-v.html
Hope this helps!

 

[lauver]

BillyMade,

Thanks for the links; I've been to all three many times and will probably visit them again soon. A good site with excellent research.

 

[Uncle Buck]

BillyMade,

Thanks for the links; I've been to all three many times and will probably visit them again soon. A good site with excellent research.

I may not be the most knowledgable on the board but feel free to PM me any time you want.

 

[MAD]

Perhaps I was overly ambitious. Perhaps I was overly assertive. And perhaps my particular style rubs you the wrong way. My intent was not to offend. I just wanted to get to the bottom of this thread in a reasonbly short time. In hindsight, I can see where this did not take into account your styles, your interests, or your reasons for participating in this thread.

That said, where do we go from here? I'm thinking I should probably stay away from this thread. I can pursue my interests elsewhere or on my own. But I would like to maintain contact with some of you, from time to time, because you are valuable resources. Are you receptive to the occasional PM from me? I'm not talking homework assignments or tasks; I'm talking simple questions that you may be able to answer off the top of your head. What do you think guys?

If you are interested in the subject of this thread or any other than there is no reason not to participate in it if you want to. I definitely think you were overly assertive but what is done is done. It is silly to discuss things that are of general interest by PM. The public nature of the open forum is what keeps it dynamic and draws out new information or perhaps just a good laugh once in a while. Just relax a bit and don't piss in the lemonade.

 

[jim m]

If you are interested in the subject of this thread or any other than there is no reason not to participate in it if you want to. I definitely think you were overly assertive but what is done is done. It is silly to discuss things that are of general interest by PM. The public nature of the open forum is what keeps it dynamic and draws out new information or perhaps just a good laugh once in a while. Just relax a bit and don't piss in the lemonade.

+ 1 here I have enjoyed this topic and would like to learn more on it
I would have never found the info on the 1959 wall cabnet with out your and mads help I have been checking my tools tto see what info I can add so lets keep it going
useing pms is silly how can others add to it so we all can get the whole pitcher
just be patient and those who wont to add to the topic will and we all benefit

Jim

 

[dxdexter]

I have been following this thread since its beginning, but with only two tools for which the date codes had been discussed early on, felt no need to voice up.

I haven't read it in the last week and find it somewhat disturbing at how the thread has evolved. I personally enjoy reading and contributing to the group, but have never felt obligated to contribute to any thread. If I had a thread with this many responses, I would consider it to be an over whelming success.

The facts are that even thought there are thousands of members on this group, only a few contribute to the discussions and fewer still on a regular basis. Of those few who contribute, many do not own or even care about Craftsman Tools, so the pool from which to draw knowledge is very limited. I feel no need for childish antics in order to gain attention. The norm for most threads is generally light and threads can be expected to contain both serious and humorous tones with a bit of fluff thrown in, but not chastising for lack of attention. That being said, we all make mistakes and should let bygones be bygones and continue the discussion if so desired, it is one of the more detailed threads on this board and even though not initiated by Lauver, your contributions and obvious interest has pushed the topic in the right direction.

BTW the Craftsman tools I own are a ratchet with date code V purchased in the mid 80's in Canada (made in USA) and a tee handle with BE inherited from my grandfather and would guess it was from the 40's.

 

[MAD]

I have Klein branded wire strippers that are identical except for the color of the handle plastic dip. I always assumed Klein was the OEM for these but the pipewrench plier thing means that a third OEM could supply both Klein and Craftsman with these wire strippers.

I figured out that my Craftsman and Klein strippers are made by Stride tool.
http://www.stridetool.com/tools/tools.html

The Milbar division of Stride tool was given an award in 2001 by Sears for being one of its top OEM suppliers.

 

[lauver]

MAD,

Have you got an approximate purchase date or part number for the strippers or stripper set? With part number(s) I/we can trace the sales dates through the catalogs (I have catalogs dated 2002/2003 - 2008/2209). Do you have catalogs that date in the 1990's or early 2000's?

 

[philw]

I have a catalog from late 70's? Cover is missing and can't seem to find a date.

Their "finest chest and cabinet" is only 34" wide/10 drawer for $379.99. All other chests and cabs are 27".

Torx drive bits were new. The 1/2" speeder still had the large handle on the end.
Socket sets were available with both standard and metric. They still had some cool tool boxes. They had a Kennedy Cantilever style clone for 39.99 and a 19" Hip Roof for 16.99.
They still had the short offset box wrenches. A 3 piece set from 3/8 to 11/16 for $4.19
Digitork torque wrench was available so the catalog can't be much older than the late 70's, could be as new as the early 80's.

 

[dxdexter]

I have a catalog from late 70's? Cover is missing and can't seem to find a date.

Their "finest chest and cabinet" is only 34" wide/10 drawer for $379.99. All other chests and cabs are 27".

Torx drive bits were new. The 1/2" speeder still had the large handle on the end.
Socket sets were available with both standard and metric. They still had some cool tool boxes. They had a Kennedy Cantilever style clone for 39.99 and a 19" Hip Roof for 16.99.
They still had the short offset box wrenches. A 3 piece set from 3/8 to 11/16 for $4.19
Digitork torque wrench was available so the catalog can't be much older than the late 70's, could be as new as the early 80's.

I have a Canadian edition of the 1983/84 catalog if it is any help. The only forging codes that are readable (so far) is on a ratcheting box end wrench (laminated type made in USA). It is a "I" inside of a circle and the #943683

The Digitorque wrench is in ours for $159.

Our largest box available was a 41" wide roller cabinet, red with black drawers for $509. There was no matching top box

Lauver I have a few more Canadian catalogs: 2001,2004,2005,2006,2007, but I think that many of the tools are not made in the USA and the forging stamps are not readable.

 

[T56 Impala]

"VV" isn't this a newer wrench? http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-CRAFTSM...ryZ20773QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I have a whole box full of "VV and "V^" stuff. I didn't know I was a "collector"!!!!

 

[philw]

I forgot to mention that I cannot make out any codes. They used a poor quality paper back when this catalog was made. Combine that with grainy pictures and it's hard to make out anything small. There were a couple pictures of large combo wrenches that I thought I would be able to see but there were no codes on them.

Most of the tool line-up looks similiar to what it does today/recently.

 

[lauver]

MAD, dxdexter, philw,

Hang on to your catalogs, they may come in handy later for tracking down other tool dates. I'll keep looking for 1990's and early 2000's catalogs, someones got to have some.

MAD- Excellent work on tracking down the manufacturer on the strippers! You seem to have the nack for doing this sort of detective work.

Is there a series code on the strippers? Please tell me there is.

If your 4-piece professional stripper set is PN 73589, I can verify sales for 2002-2008. Prior to that I cannot say, because I don't have the catalogs to support it.

dxdexter- Does your 2001 Canadian catalog have the 4-piece professional stripper set PN 73589? If so please let me know.

 

[dxdexter]

If your 4-piece professional stripper set is PN 73589, I can verify sales for 2002-2008. Prior to that I cannot say, because I don't have the catalogs to support it.

dxdexter- Does your 2001 Canadian catalog have the 4-piece professional stripper set PN 73589? If so please let me know.

No, none of my catalogs have any listings for wire strippers. The catalogs do not always have all the stock listed in them. I'm would certainly bet that Sears did sell wire strippers at the time, just no tin their catalog.

 

[MAD]

MAD, dxdexter, philw,

Hang on to your catalogs, they may come in handy later for tracking down other tool dates. I'll keep looking for 1990's and early 2000's catalogs, someones got to have some.

Sorry- I do not have any old catalogs unless there are some hiding in a box under those old bank and credit card statements that I have been intending to file for the last few years.

MAD- Excellent work on tracking down the manufacturer on the strippers! You seem to have the nack for doing this sort of detective work.

Is there a series code on the strippers? Please tell me there is.

If your 4-piece professional stripper set is PN 73589, I can verify sales for 2002-2008. Prior to that I cannot say, because I don't have the catalogs to support it.

There is no series code or number on them although there may have been at one time. I checked another wire stripper I have at work but that one does not even say Craftsman anymore. I bought them around eight years ago (perhaps) as singles rather than as part of a set.

This one looks like the same tool.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00973573000P?vName=Tools&cName=Electrical+Shop&sName=Electrical+Tools+%26+Accessories

 

[T56 Impala]

Just to add this to this thread....

I picked up the double box end set today. Both "VV" and "V^" date stamps were included in the fractional set. Just thought this might figure into something somewhere down the line.

 

[lauver]

MAD,

Just so you know, I'm lumping all the "no series code" tools together in one category, and listing all the known manufacturers in that one category. Do you have any ideas on how to best handle this category. I'm thinking that if it doesn't have a series code, it's probably outside this thread and not worth a whole lot of work. I could be wrong though. Your thoughts?

 

[MAD]

MAD,

I'm thinking that if it doesn't have a series code, it's probably outside this thread and not worth a whole lot of work. I could be wrong though. Your thoughts?

Perhaps with over 200 posts you are right that it is better outside this thread. I think I may start a new thread that is geared towards matching recent and current Craftsman tools with the OEM source. I stumbled on a new source of info this morning that has confirmed a lot of my assumptions and provided some new information as well.

 

[lbgradwell]

I think I may start a new thread that is geared towards matching recent and current Craftsman tools with the OEM source. I stumbled on a new source of info this morning that has confirmed a lot of my assumptions and provided some new information as well.

Excellent! Looking forward to this info!

 

[lauver]

MAD,

What's your new source, it may be useful here as well.

 

[lauver]

I stopped by the independent sears store this morning and found some interesting stuff. There were many boxes on the floor, full of tools waiting to be hung up on the display racks and shelves. The shipping boxes were as interesting as the tools they contained.

Box 1, marked Western Forge, Colorado:
2-Arm Puller Sets PN 46903, series code = "WF V"
10-Piece Professional Screwdriver Sets, PN 47203, series code = "WF W"
T15 Torx Drivers, PN 41474, series code = "T WF"
4-Piece Large Screwdriver Sets, PN 47126, series code = "W WF"
Bottle Cap Openers (screwdriver handle), PN 41626, series code = "V WF"

Box 2, marked Pratt Reed:
Assorted (open stock) flat screwdrivers of varying lengths, all had off-red plastic handles with rubber comfort grip sleeves and a black industrial finish, with the same PN 47150 (regardles of size) and one of three series codes "U PR3", "U PR2", or "U PR1". I'm guessing that the U in the series code referred to the industrial black finish/comfort grip and the 1,2, or 3 referred to shaft length. The PR part of the series code is obvious.

Box 3, unmarked (shipping label removed):
3-Piece Professional Mini-Plier "Precision" sets, PN 45673, series code = "D", and labeled "Made in China".
3-Piece Professional Mini-Plier "Precision" sets in zippered case, PN 45671, series code = "D", and Labeled "Made in China". Note- this is a new series code and one linked to a Chinese manufacturer; Other Chinese-made tools have not had a series code.

Tool Sets on Clearance Table:
6-Piece 3/4" Drive Socket Set, PN 46306, series code = "K". Note-These are the first SK-made Craftsman sockets I've seen or heard of.

Tools/Sets on Display Racks:
1/2" Drive Flex-Handle Breaker Bar, PN 44201, series code = "VVW". Note-This is a new series code.
1/4" Drive 18-Piece Socket Set, PN 34564, series code = "G2". Note-This is the first G2 series code I have seen, although others have mentioned it.
3/8" Drive 18-Piece Socket Set, PN 34558, series code = "G2". Note- This and the above 1/4" set are older style sockets without the laser etched labeling; It may be really old stock.
I looked for the SK-made thumbwheel ratchets/extensions and tamper-proof torx bit sets that MAD discovered, but there were none to be found in this independent Sears store.

Here's a couple of conclusions from the above findings:
1) Any series code containing "WF" is almost certainly Western Forge.
2) Any series code containing "PR" is almost certainly Pratt Reed.
3) Still looking for an example of a G3 series code; anybody got one? G2 and G3 may be variations of the G (Danaher) series code.

 

[wrenchr]

The WF and PR codes I have understood for quite sometime but the G series I dunno.

 

[lauver]

MAD,

Saw your post on another thread regarding SK-made sockets/torx bit drivers, ratcheting thumbwheels, and extensions. Good find!!! I looked for them in my independent Sears store but had no luck finding them. Were the tools you found marked "K" and/or "SK"?

I did find a 6-piece set of 3/4" drive sockets, PN 46306, series code K. These are the first SK-made sockets I've run across. Have you seen these?

Also, a few months back I ran across three ratchets that I'm suspicious about:

3/8" ergo flex-head ratchet, PN 44836, series code KW,

3/8" round head ratchet, PN 43175, series code KX, and

3/8" extra long teardrop quick release ratchet, PN 44833, series KX.

Could these be SK-made ratchets? I'm not familier with SK ratchets at all so I'm interested in your thoughts on these.

 

[lauver]

Gang,

I've done some additions and updates to the original series code list (page 7, post #69) and highlighted all of the additions/updates in red so you can see what has changed. The list is growing and getting way more complicated. If you haven't looked at it lately, check it out. Also, feel free to comment and/or supply additions/corrections/theories/examples etc.

 

[old salvage]

Thanks Lauver !

 

[MAD]

MAD,

Saw your post on another thread regarding SK-made sockets/torx bit drivers, ratcheting thumbwheels, and extensions. Good find!!! I looked for them in my independent Sears store but had no luck finding them. Were the tools you found marked "K" and/or "SK"?

I did find a 6-piece set of 3/4" drive sockets, PN 46306, series code K. These are the first SK-made sockets I've run across. Have you seen these?

Also, a few months back I ran across three ratchets that I'm suspicious about:

3/8" ergo flex-head ratchet, PN 44836, series code KW,

3/8" round head ratchet, PN 43175, series code KX, and

3/8" extra long teardrop quick release ratchet, PN 44833, series KX.

Could these be SK-made ratchets? I'm not familier with SK ratchets at all so I'm interested in your thoughts on these.

Those are Danaher ratchets.

The "K" mark on SK made Craftsman tools that I have seen has always been a small identification mark away from the part number rather than a prefix.

I think the SK made security TORX bit sockets I saw had a W series code but I will have to check again the next time I am there.

 

[T56 Impala]

Can I be the first to make this call:

Sears goes under. S&K buys the rights to the Craftsman name. S&K makes the higher end of the brand and Craftsman becomes the lower end. S&K still warranties Craftsman stuff BUT when replaced, you get off shore tools with the Craftsman name.....



Remember, you saw it here first!

for the addition file.....

2003-2004 time frame. Craftsman reversable ratcheting combo wrenches, code "GK-A". I didn't remember seeing this on the list but I may have missed it.

 

[lbgradwell]

Can I be the first to make this call:

Sears goes under. S&K buys the rights to the Craftsman name. S&K makes the higher end of the brand and Craftsman becomes the lower end. S&K still warranties Craftsman stuff BUT when replaced, you get off shore tools with the Craftsman name.....

Remember, you saw it here first!

OK, but I just don't see that happening..!

 

[eschoendorff]

Can I be the first to make this call:

Sears goes under. S&K buys the rights to the Craftsman name. S&K makes the higher end of the brand and Craftsman becomes the lower end. S&K still warranties Craftsman stuff BUT when replaced, you get off shore tools with the Craftsman name.....



Remember, you saw it here first!

for the addition file.....

2003-2004 time frame. Craftsman reversable ratcheting combo wrenches, code "GK-A". I didn't remember seeing this on the list but I may have missed it.

Know anything else about the "GK" code? i think that the code is stamped on my Cman impact sockets....