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Craftsman : series time frame ?

lauver

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No they do not.

skehn63,

Just to be clear, were the ratchets that came in your tool kit the classic raised panel teardrop design? The reason I ask, is that about this same time, Sears began packaging a different ratchet design in their tool kits... i.e. full polish round head ratchets with a speeder ring on the top of the ratchet head.
 
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skehn63

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skehn63,

Just to be clear, were the ratchets that came in your tool kit the classic raised panel teardrop design? The reason I ask, is that about this same time, Sears began packaging a different ratchet design in their tool kits... i.e. full polish round head ratchets with a speeder ring on the top of the ratchet head.

They were the classic raised panel design not the cheap round head type.
 

lauver

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Gang,

I added two series codes today, one early series (an oldie) and one modern series (fresh of the Danaher press):

A-circle = Empire, ca. 1935 - 1973 (rusty on Papaws Wrench made the OEM identifcation)

LZ = Danaher, Made in Taiwan, ca. 2010 - ? (wrencher provided the new code over on the GG)

Thanks for the help guys... the beers are on me.
 
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lauver

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Gang,

Just added a new series code I found on a ratchet I picked up last week. Nothing earth shattering, just another Danaher code found on a 1/4" SLTD ratchet, MN 44807 (that's Short Lever Tear Drop with figure 8 cover plate). Anyway, here's the new code:

K4W = Danaher, ca. 2007 - ?

That is all....
 

MN Falcon

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Gary are you still looking for codes? I just picked up my new 309 pc mechanics set at Sears today. I was having some troubles with my old EE no country of origin ratchet (my EE sockets all say USA on them). They didn't have a rebuilt one in the drawer so they grabbed a new one from the floor for me. They replaced my #43796 ratchet with a #44995 that they had. This ratchet also was highly polished chrome and has the code L-AA. Again this ratchet does not have a country of origin stamped in, but says on the removable package Taiwan (but it was the most expensive 3/8" ratchet on their shelf at about $35.

I didn't look at most of my new sockets but I was seeing G2 or maybe it was G2D. But what I did see was that the ratcheting combo wrenches in he pack were not stamped with country of origin either. These had no special packaging either, just kind of loose in the box. One of the wrenches part number was #42568 and had the code D-AA. They were also considered to be highly polished.
 

lauver

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mn falcon,

Always looking. Thanks for the heads up on new L-AA and D-AA codes. I'll update my list soon.
 

MN Falcon

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#42568 ratcheting combo wrench:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00942568000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

Note the one that Sears uses as an example clearly says USA on it where as mine does not. I thought I read somewhere (maybe this thread) that Danaher owns Gearwrench:

http://www.gearwrench.com/catalog/wrenches/ratcheting/combination/

I also clicked on open stock metric and to the 8mm, it showed the 19mm as an example but did give me another clue. Mine looks very similar in stampings, craftsman in the center on both sides and the size on both ends on both side (I assume this Gearwrench will also have the stamping on both sides) But see to the right side of the Gearwrench logo are the letters PAT without a patent number to go along with it, mine has that. I will try to post a pict of mine later when I have it in hand again, but I would say there is a high likely hood that the D-AA might be Gearwrench (Possibly Taiwan since no country of origin).

I looked for a similar looking ratchet there as well with no luck, bu that doesn't necessarily mean anything here is a link to Sears for the ratchet L-AA:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00944995000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

Remember this one also has no country of origin stamped on it but says Taiwan on the packaging.
 

MN Falcon

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http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126875

I was just reading this thread about Craftsman outsourcing the tools to China. The OP of this thread did a comparison of the new Chinese ratchet to the USA one in his local store. I noticed that the Chinese ratchet mentioned here is also series D-AA, looking closely at his pictures. Therefore, I would expect the D-AA series tools to be Chinese and the L-AA tools like my new ratchet to be Taiwan (again my new ratchet was an exchange for a "bad" EE series ratchet that I had)

Danaher / Apex Tool Group:

http://www.apextoolgroup.com/news/
 
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frostys

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Newbie here, first post, found this thread while I was trying to figure out the date of some of my dad's old tools. In the process, I started to get curious about this statement:

"Now, there is the separate issue of stamped model numbers appearing on the Craftsman tools. So far, the earliest we have been able to date the appearance of model numbers on the V-series tools is 1975."

I've got a 43788 ratchet that I'm pretty sure I bought in 1971 when I picked up a $100 Triumph Tiger Cub and had to acquire Whitworth sockets and a ratchet. It's got the series of Patent #s ending with the Canadian patent /1971. My dad had a 43784 marked "Patent Pending" and I'm pretty sure he got it with his =v= sockets in the late 60s. Both of these ratchets have the -v- marking, as well.

So what do you think? Seems to me the model numbers could have come earlier than 1975, at least on these ratchets.
 

lauver

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Frosty,

Anything is possible. But, what we need first is credible evidence. How about you taking some photo's of your ratchet and your dads ratchet. Be sure to include close ups of all the markings on the ratchets. Also, check the head end of the ratchets to see if there are oil ports on these ratchets.

Who knows, you may be the guy who moves the date to earlier than 1975.

Hope to see your photos soon.
 

frostys

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I've taken a couple of pix, mine's the RHFT, and my dad's is the QR. Hope they're readable enough, if not I'll get my wife the photographer to give it a try.
 

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lauver

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Frosty,

Let's start with your dads first, a 3/8" Model 43784 Long Lever Tear Drop (LLTD) V-series ratchet. I think your, or your dad's, recollection may be off a few years. The model 43784 LLTD ratchet was first introduced in 1980 and was discontinued in 1994. This is based on catalog evidence. Also, I noticed in your photo that your dad's ratchet had no oil port; LLTD's lost their oil ports in 1980. And, last but not least, the V-series code appears to have ended about 1986. So, your dads ratchet would be dated somewhere between 1980 and 1986, based on all available evidence.

Now, let's take a look at yours, a 3/8" Model 43788 Round Head Fine Tooth (RHFT) V-series ratchet. This ratchet was first introduced late in 1970 and I am still researching when it went out of production. But, tools marked with the V-series appear to have ended in 1986. The Canadian patent stamped on your ratchet puts your ratchet at 1971 or later. So, given the available information your ratchet is likely dated between 1971 and 1986. That is as close as I can get it at the moment. Now, there is your recollection of purchasing the ratchet in 1971. How sure are you? If you are certain on the purchase date, I would probably be inclined to move the model numbering date to 1971, with a footnote indicating that this date is based on one observation.
 
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frostys

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Gary --

I have to say, you've done an impressive amount of research on this and it's very solid. First, my dad's ratchet. He had a 65366 2-drawer toolbox that is dated 6-66, so it's likely he got the sockets at the same time. The 1966 catalog shows the V-lever ratchet handle, and it looks oddly familiar. There's a pretty good chance that he had one of those originally and replaced it later.

Now, my ratchet. The only question is when I acquired it. How sure am I? About as sure as anyone looking back 40 years! It's possible this was one of my dad's "Tool Santa" gifts in the 70s and I dumped an earlier ratchet, but I honestly don't remember ever having another one. So treat this as anecdotal evidence with an asterisk, or consider it undocumented and unreliable, your call.

Is the 1975 date for model numbers from you own purchase history and receipts? Out of curiosity, have you run into anyone else who thought they might have gotten a wrench with a model number before '75?
 

lauver

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Frosty,

The V-series Model Number Date, as well as the Series Code Date Ranges are based on a number of sources including:

1) Sears/Craftsman catalog observations,
2) the purchase recollections of 100's of GJ, GG, and CC site members over the last 5 years,
3) my own collection and inventory records of Crafty tools,
4) the expert observations and opinions of several "tool authorities/collectors", and
5) selected government records including patent registrations, trade name registrations, FTC filings, and numerous court case filings.

Yes, there have been numerous people who felt the V-series model numbering started before 1975, but they were not able to provide credible evidence. For the record, WF-series tools had model numbers starting in the mid-1960's. And BF-series tools had model numbers starting in the late 1960s or early 1970's.

For what it's worth, your RHFT ratchet is, in my opinion, the best ratchet Sears/Craftsman ever sold, as well as one of the best kept secrets Sears ever had. The RHFT ratchets were available for 40 years, yet are relatively rare compared to the number of LLTD ratchets sold over a 28 year period.
 
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frostys

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I completely agree on the RHFT ratchets. This may be the only time I ended up with a better tool than my dad did.

I'm shopping (eBay) for a couple more for my sons. Looks like they were made under two model numbers: 43788 and 43781. Is there any difference? Any idea which year the model number changed?

Again, thanks for all the info on this thread.
 
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tlowery04

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hmpf and all this time I thought the v -v- and =v= series were from like the 40's. I have some that LOOK really old, but facts is facts. Guess I'll have to start sorting my tools by series number, maybe look to do some trading. All I can say is, thank god I finally got rid of all those "laser etched" sockets that had all the writing rub off.

first things first, to get the shop in order, get a new rolling tool box, then sort out the hand tools. I've recently found I have about a half a 5 gallon bucket of 3/8" sockets laying out somewhere.
 

tlowery04

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the new Chinese impacts are S-AA (currently in debate over whether or not they are warrantied)
 

lauver

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I completely agree on the RHFT ratchets. This may be the only time I ended up with a better tool than my dad did.

I'm shopping (eBay) for a couple more for my sons. Looks like they were made under two model numbers: 43788 and 43781. Is there any difference? Any idea which year the model number changed?

Again, thanks for all the info on this thread.

Frosty,

The 43788 ran from 1970 - 1979
The 43781 ran from 1980 - 2010

Both models are the same exact basic design, but I find the older ones feel a little smoother to me. However, if you could find a 43781 with a V-series code, that would still be a safe bet (roughly 1980 - 1989). Bottom line though, any RHFT (new or old) is better than a comparable Teardrop model.
 

cascivic

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hi guys new here was just doing some reading... i have an older crafstmen 1/2 inch drive that i dont know where it came from. if im reading correctly im guessing this is a pre 1980 unit? thanks this is all new and kinda confusing to me
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cascivic

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wow so this thing is that old huh? i wish i knew how i came into posession of it i bought a whole ac delco rolling set from walmart on clearance right out of high school(i know not the best stuff ) and i worked on my car and did a friends engine swap in the early 2000's then kinda neglected it.. just getting it all squared away and organized again seeing what i need and can upgrade and found the ratchet in there and was curious.
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MoboMac

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New guy here......and a Craftsman FAN since the late 60's.....

Stumbled across this thread.....need to read the whole thing.

Figured to give it a "bump" AND....

MY question is: was wondering what years that part#'s started appearing on Craftsman wrenches,ratchets,etc.?

Early to mid-60's?
 

l74foster

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I just found this craftsman ratchet when my mother passed away. I am not a collector and was just going to sell or give it away. Started doing research and got stumped. It is 1/2 in ratchet, one side says craftsman the other says forged in usa but there is a u circled on same side but it is upside down. I can not find another one like this. Is it a misprint or something I have not found. Help please.
 

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ganymede

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I just found this craftsman ratchet when my mother passed away. I am not a collector and was just going to sell or give it away. Started doing research and got stumped. It is 1/2 in ratchet, one side says craftsman the other says forged in usa but there is a u circled on same side but it is upside down. I can not find another one like this. Is it a misprint or something I have not found. Help please.

Very sorry for your loss.

Your ratchet was made for Sears by Plomb Tool Company.
Made sometime in the mid to late 40's.
I believe Sears only sold those ratchets for a few years before switching suppliers from Plomb to Moore Drop Forge.
The Moore ratchets were a different design. Yours is not rare but not very common either.
Personally I think it's one of the more desirable rats that Craftsman had offered.
 
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l74foster

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That is what i thought, but the u on others i have seen are the same direction as the forged in usa. This u is printed the other way. Is this normal for them to print in dufferent directions. I am going to try sell and just dont want to get taken. I am a girl that knows nothing about tools.
 

lbgradwell

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Don't worry; you can't get too badly taken as it will only fetch ~$20-25. Personally, unless you already have a 1/2" ratchet, I think you should hold onto it for the coolness factor.

Someone has had it apart in the past and re-assembled it backwards. The side with the direction-lever ought to be on the side that reads "Craftsman" (although this will not affect function in any way...).
 

ganymede

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That is what i thought, but the u on others i have seen are the same direction as the forged in usa. This u is printed the other way. Is this normal for them to print in dufferent directions. I am going to try sell and just dont want to get taken. I am a girl that knows nothing about tools.

Odd stamping variations are important to coin collectors. Tool collectors aren't that picky. ;)
 

l74foster

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I realized that, i am talking about the u and forged in usa are not imprinted in the same direction and r on same side of the ratchet. Dorry i am confusing
 

l74foster

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Thanks, the only other one for sale i could find was like $60, thats crazy. I just want to sell to someone that would appreciate it, not trying to get rich....
 

Outlawmws

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l74, if you are looking at "buy it now" in Eprey, go to advanced search adn look for sold listings... that is far more "real" a value, (assuming it's not a rigged sale - I suspect there is a fair amount of money laundering going on there...)
 

MrRocket

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So I know this is a 4 year old thread but it's brand new to me! I just finished reading through all of it. Anyway, I wanted to add something. I bought a Craftsman tool set in March of 85 (still have the parts list with the date on it). In this set the wrenches and nut drivers, line wrenches are all V series while the sockets are all G series. I remember the 3/8 drive ratchet being the QR pear head with the oil port, not sure on the 1/2 drive as to the oil port or the 1/4 drive either. I remember the 3/8 drive ratchet because I warrantied it at Sears and I remember the cashier commenting on the fact that it was a better ratchet then I was getting and he hadn't seen an oil port in a long time. My other ratchets were stolen. A "friend" traded my good ratchets for his not so good ones when I let him borrow my tools. I was thinking that this info might put a date on when these series codes were still sold.
 

LOW1

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Great thread. The only thing I can contribute is that in the early 1990s I bought some craftsman wrench sets that were vv with boths vs right side up
 

loudog212

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This thread still being updated?

I've got some possible dates for B, D and 7 WF sockets. Stamps were found under the black plastic anti-roll/easy read style sockets. Not entirely sure the date those were released

The style seen in this thread
 
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