Craftsman : series time frame ?

[vjquan]

G1 series code--I suspected there was a G1 series code simply because there is a known G2 series code (I've seen the G2, and they are still on the racks at my Sears). But I have never seen a G1 and nobody has posted one, so I left it off the list. If you or someone else can confirm the G1, I'll add it to the list. Also, while on the G2 series, the G2 sockets look pretty much like the G and H sockets I have. It has been suggested that G is Danaher, but to date we have no working theories on who produced H.

I have lots of G1 sockets.

 

[lauver]

I have lots of G1 sockets.

vjquan,

Great, can you supply any approximate purchase dates for your G1 sockets? Do your G1 sockets say Made in USA? Do you have any other series code sockets (i.e. V, E, EE, G, G2) that you can compare/contrast them to? Do you have any theories on who may have manufactured the G1 sockets?

Any info concerning the G1's you can provide is appreciated.

 

[64merc]

lauver,

G1 series code-- I'm almost certain of the G1 code and vjquan just confirmed it as well.

Upside down G-- You're probably right about it just being a stamping variation. I seriously doubt it is a different manufacturer since the two look identical side by side.

Metric Banding on sockets-- So, in my mind, the metric banding began at the tail end of the V series, which preceeded or maybe slightly overlapped EE, and preceeded G, and H.

I'm a bit confused - sorry. The V series is, I believe, older than the EE series and it has the banding, but the EE series sockets that I have do not have the banding. They start again with the banding on the G series sockets I have. So the mystery EE series are different in that way too. Just clarifying here.

 

[vjquan]

vjquan,

Great, can you supply any approximate purchase dates for your G1 sockets? Do your G1 sockets say Made in USA? Do you have any other series code sockets (i.e. V, E, EE, G, G2, H) that you can compare/contrast them to? Do you have any theories on who may have manufactured the G1 sockets?

Any info concerning the G1's you can provide is appreciated.

I bought my set early '01, so they were probably manufactured at the latest in '00. Most of the sockets are G1 with a few G2. There are no noticeable differences between the two. I think it's just a date code kind of like the ratchets and breaker bars that seem to increase a letter every year or two. They are Made in USA. My guess is that Danaher made these. All my extensions, adapters, and U-joints are H designated. I have a few V tools - a couple of sockets, a 10 inch extension, and breaker bar. Now these are definitely different. These are from my Dad's box so I'm guessing back in the '70s. The stamping is different and the finish is more of a satin look rather than polished chrome. I'm guessing Stanley made these.

 

[lauver]

lauver,

G1 series code-- I'm almost certain of the G1 code and vjquan just confirmed it as well.

Upside down G-- You're probably right about it just being a stamping variation. I seriously doubt it is a different manufacturer since the two look identical side by side.

Metric Banding on sockets-- So, in my mind, the metric banding began at the tail end of the V series, which preceeded or maybe slightly overlapped EE, and preceeded G, and H.

I'm a bit confused - sorry. The V series is, I believe, older than the EE series and it has the banding, but the EE series sockets that I have do not have the banding. They start again with the banding on the G series sockets I have. So the mystery EE series are different in that way too. Just clarifying here.

64merc,

I'm following your logic, and it would appear that you have me in a small inconsistancy. But here's how it plays out in my mind:

The principal post WWII suppliers to Sears/Craftsman were or are 1) Moore Drop Forge, 2) Easco, and 3)Danaher. This is pretty much one continuous supply arc from about 1946 to 2008. I say pretty much because there is evidence that both Moore and Easco had some productivity/capacity problems during the late 1960's through the early 1990's when Danaher acquired Easco. This may have caused Sears to go outside it's principal suppliers and contract with secondary suppliers like Stanley to make up for shortfalls. Since Stanley was a secondary supplier (short term contracts/lower volumes) Sears was probably willing to relax some of their production standards and specifications. Hence, we end up with wierd ducks like EE that don't quite conform to the general pattern or trend like V, VG, G, VV, and V^. I'm guessing that there are other wierd ducks out there like I-circle and BF. Sears may also use secondary suppliers to pick up niche tools that the principal suppliers don't have, or can't supply competitively.

Does this explantion make it easier to understand EE?

 

[lauver]

I bought my set early '01, so they were probably manufactured at the latest in '00. Most of the sockets are G1 with a few G2. There are no noticeable differences between the two. I think it's just a date code kind of like the ratchets and breaker bars that seem to increase a letter every year or two. They are Made in USA. My guess is that Danaher made these. All my extensions, adapters, and U-joints are H designated. I have a few V tools - a couple of sockets, a 10 inch extension, and breaker bar. Now these are definitely different. These are from my Dad's box so I'm guessing back in the '70s. The stamping is different and the finish is more of a satin look rather than polished chrome. I'm guessing Stanley made these.

vjquan,

Thanks for the G1 info. If you ever want to see the working list of series codes it's on page 7, post #69, this thread. You may see some other series codes you can post information on. I'll add G1 to the list tonight.

Your fathers V series tools were made by Moore Drop Forge or Easco. If they had been made by Stanley they would have been polished chrome and had something other than a V series code stamped on them.

Thanks again and post at will.

 

[lauver]

I bought my set early '01, so they were probably manufactured at the latest in '00. Most of the sockets are G1 with a few G2. There are no noticeable differences between the two. I think it's just a date code kind of like the ratchets and breaker bars that seem to increase a letter every year or two. They are Made in USA. My guess is that Danaher made these. All my extensions, adapters, and U-joints are H designated. I have a few V tools - a couple of sockets, a 10 inch extension, and breaker bar. Now these are definitely different. These are from my Dad's box so I'm guessing back in the '70s. The stamping is different and the finish is more of a satin look rather than polished chrome. I'm guessing Stanley made these.

Vjquan,

You mentioned your G1 sockets were not noticeably different than your G2 sockets. Do you remember when you acquired your G2s?

 

[64merc]

Vjquan,

You mentioned your G1 sockets were not noticeably different than your G2 sockets. Do you remember when you acquired your G2s?

FYI, I bought a large 6pt only socket set on sale over the holidays and it is largely made up of a mix of G2 and GK series.

 

[lauver]

Gang & C-man ratchet fans,

I had about a 1/2 hour to kill the other day and dropped in the local Sears retail center to look at tools. Didn't find much new or of interest, except these 10 piece socket and ratchet kits they had on the racks. They were not sealed or otherwise secured so I opened them up to explore further; the sockets were G2 series, the raised panel ratchets were somewhat unusual though. The finish was a little brighter and the pear head had a large recess machined into it on the drive side with a big cad plated C-clip to hold the ratchet assembly in place. The reverse lever was plastic and a different shape than the lever on the old V series ratchets. I looked for a series code and found a T3W. I grabbed another set, but metric this time. The sockets in this set were G2 series but the ratchet was KV series. The part numbers were the same on both ratchets (44811) but the series codes were different. These ratchets were identical in every respect except the series codes and the kit they came in (one SAE, one Metric).

Has anybody seen these ratchets before? Has anybody seen a T3W series code before? Has anybody got a theory on why the series codes would be different on otherwise identical ratchets being sold at the same point in time?

Don't run out and buy these ratchets unless your a collector and simply want one for your collection. These were pretty flimsy ratchets and not representative of the older pear head raised panel ratchets most of us are familiar with.

I also found a 1/2" raised panel breaker bar, PN 44202, with a VVX series code. Haven't seen the code before and nobody has posted it either. I checked my catalogs when I got home and this same breaker bar has been available at least as far back as 2002, maybe earlier.

 

[64merc]

Lauver, I'll tell you one thing, and this is just my opinion, the codes on those darn ratchets are different every time you look at one. Maybe they assign a different code for every production run of 10,000 or something. I think it may be possible to come up with a timeline for sockets, but I have a feeling the modern ratchets are out of the question.

 

[vjquan]

Vjquan,

You mentioned your G1 sockets were not noticeably different than your G2 sockets. Do you remember when you acquired your G2s?

The G2's were acquired in '03. Also in the mix with the G1 set purchase, there are a few GK and an unusual CG.

 

[vjquan]

Lauver, I'll tell you one thing, and this is just my opinion, the codes on those darn ratchets are different every time you look at one. Maybe they assign a different code for every production run of 10,000 or something. I think it may be possible to come up with a timeline for sockets, but I have a feeling the modern ratchets are out of the question.

I agree. Every time I look at the ratchets and breaker bars from time to time, they always increase a letter.

 

[lauver]

The G2's were acquired in '03. Also in the mix with the G1 set purchase, there are a few GK and an unusual CG.

vjquan,

Ok, now you've gone and done it with the "unusual CG" mention. What is this tool? Do you have a part number? Can you post some pictures (entire tool and close-ups of all the stampings: i.e. C-man logo, PN, series code, made in USA, etc). The more photo's the better. Thanks.

PS- What part of California are you from?

 

[vjquan]

vjquan,

Ok, now you've gone and done it with the "unusual CG" mention. What is this tool? Do you have a part number? Can you post some pictures (entire tool and close-ups of all the stampings: i.e. C-man logo, PN, series code, made in USA, etc). The more photo's the better. Thanks.

PS- What part of California are you from?

The CG is a standard 1/2" drive 27mm socket. It came in the same set as with the G1/GK sockets. It appears to be the only one I have like that. There are no visual differences between that and the G/G1/G2/GK sockets.

I'm in the SoCal, LA area.

l'm quite surprised how many pages this thread turned out to be! lauver, would you be interested in tracking C-man oops products that made it out to the public? I have a socket that was marked MM instead of mm for the size. I also had a deep socket that was not broached for the socket detent ball. I think this could be an interesting topic and pics would be entertaining to see.

 

[lauver]

The CG is a standard 1/2" drive 27mm socket. It came in the same set as with the G1/GK sockets. It appears to be the only one I have like that. There are no visual differences between that and the G/G1/G2/GK sockets.

I'm in the SoCal, LA area.

l'm quite surprised how many pages this thread turned out to be! lauver, would you be interested in tracking C-man oops products that made it out to the public? I have a socket that was marked MM instead of mm for the size. I also had a deep socket that was not broached for the socket detent ball. I think this could be an interesting topic and pics would be entertaining to see.

vjquan,

Thanks for the info about the CG socket. Mixed series codes happens fairly frequently in Craftsman tool sets. I bought a 1/2" socket set with drive tools and accessories in a blow mold case once. It contained G sockets, a VG ratchet, a V sliding T-handle, an H extension and 1/2" to 3/8" adapter, and a G spark plug socket. I have a mental picture of a Sears employee walking through a warehouse with a blow molded case in his hand picking tools out of open stock bins (a little of this, a little of that, and hey how about one of these gizmos for good measure).

I'm beginning to think that the series codes were orginally developed by Sears simply to hold the manufacturers responsible for the lifetime warrantee. But, as manufacturers got larger and more complicated, the manufacturers themselves added subcodes to identify individual facilities, subsidiaries, production runs, and contracts. So what this could mean is that a company like Danaher, with numerous subsidiaries, and numerous facilities, and long term contracts, could have a huge number of individual series codes so Danaher can internally administer the lifetime warrantees. Is this the brave new world at Sears-Danaher Corp?

Regarding the C-man OOPS thread--I think it might be fun and interesting, but I've got a full plate at the moment. Why don't you go ahead a start it and see where it goes? I'll join you when I get some spare time. BTW- I looked quickly at my metric sockets and found no less than 3 common stamping variations including mm, MM, and M/M. It seems to vary by series code and physical dimension of the socket. I don't think it's an OOPS.

 

[vjquan]

One last question on the CG, G, G1, G2, GK that all look the same. Do you have any H sockets you can compare to all the various G's. I suspect H sockets are the same G sockets. I have some of both and have inspected them with a magnifying glass, measured their weight, wall thickness, length, and circumference (same size sockets but different series codes) and can't find any real differences. I'm beginning to think that the series codes were orginally developed by Sears simply to hold the manufacturers responsible for the lifetime warrantee. But, as manufacturers got larger and more complicated, the manufacturers themselves added subcodes to identify individual facilities, subsidiaries, production runs, and contracts. So what this could mean is that a company like Danaher, with numerous subsidiaries, and numerous facilities, and long term contracts, could have a huge number of individual series codes so Danaher can internally administer the lifetime warrantees. Is this the brave new world at Sears-Danaher Corp?

I don't have any H sockets to compare with. The only H items I have are extensions, adapters, and U-joints. As far as manufacturer added subcodes, I don't know how much info they can get out of a 2 digit code that doesn't change all that much.

 

[lauver]

Gang,

I found a new series code yesterday on DatonFan's "Re-Organization" thread.
The Series code is VJ (yes, yet another V-series code) and was found on a 1/2" pear shaped flex-head ratchet, PN 44816. There is also a 3/8" version of this ratchet, PN 44815. wrencher was able to place the purchase date around 1994-1996. I found this ratchet in the 2008 catalog so the known production dates are approximately 1994 - 2008 as far as we know. Since these ratchets were produced well after Danaher acquired Easco, I'm thinking the likely manufacturer is Danaher.

If anybody owns one of these VJ ratchets and has different ideas on the manufacturer, please let me know.

If anybody has an earlier purchase date on one of these VJ ratchets, please lt me know.

If anybody has VJ tools other than ratchets, please let me know.

 

[vjquan]

I don't exactly see the purpose of tracking ratchets as the lettering scheme seems to be nothing more than a possible time frame that changes quite frequently. I have VK series standard ratchets in one set. I've seen VP and VQ. My thin profiles when they first came out were VR and VS. My 80th Anniversary thin profiles are VV but have seen VW. Breaker bars seem to follow the same format except with 3 letters.

 

[lauver]

I don't exactly see the purpose of tracking ratchets as the lettering scheme seems to be nothing more than a possible time frame that changes quite frequently. I have VK series standard ratchets in one set. I've seen VP and VQ. My thin profiles when they first came out were VR and VS. My 80th Anniversary thin profiles are VV but have seen VW. Breaker bars seem to follow the same format except with 3 letters.

I take your point, and god knows there are too many series codes already, but ratchets are unique in that they are the easier to trace to their manufacturer than many other tools. Some have patent numbers and some have unique design features that can lead to their maker. Once you have the manufacturer linked to a series code(s) you can apply that information to other more generic tools of the same series code(s). For example, sockets and extensions are hard to link to their manufacturer because most share a rather generic design and seldom if ever have patent numbers. And last, but not least, the goal of this thread is to identify as many of the series codes, their manfacturers, and approximate production dates as is reasonably possible; so why exclude ratchets which are a rich source of information?

While on the subject of ratchets, can you provide approximate purchase dates for your VK, VR, VS, series ratchets?

 

[lauver]

64merc,

I didn't mean to cut off the conversation about your EE socket; can you post a photo of one of your EE's so I can see how they differ from other C-man sockets?

Or better yet post a side by side with a G and a EE of the same drive and socket size?

I'm guessing your EE's look like the Stanley pro-series, but until I see the EE's I'm only guessing. Thanks!

 

[lauver]

Lauver, I'll tell you one thing, and this is just my opinion, the codes on those darn ratchets are different every time you look at one. Maybe they assign a different code for every production run of 10,000 or something. I think it may be possible to come up with a timeline for sockets, but I have a feeling the modern ratchets are out of the question.

64merc,

I don't think it's just a ratchet phenomenon. I think it's a Danaher phenomenon. Of course, I could be wrong.

 

[vjquan]

While on the subject of ratchets, can you provide approximate purchase dates for your VK, VR, VS, series ratchets?

VK series were probably purchased somewhere in the mid-90's. VR, VS were in '03. For my breaker bars, I have a VVS that was bought in '03, and a VVT in '04.

 

[lauver]

VK series were probably purchased somewhere in the mid-90's. VR, VS were in '03. For my breaker bars, I have a VVS that was bought in '03, and a VVT in '04.

vjquan,

Thanks for the purchase dates. I'll see if your dates extend our currentl date ranges and update where appropriate.

 

[vjquan]

vjquan,

Thanks for the purchase dates. I'll see if your dates extend our currentl date ranges and update where appropriate.

I just looked and the blow molded case with the VK ratchets has a date of '96.

Also, in your G1 description:
G1 = possibly Danaher, ca. 2001 - ?

I mentioned that my G1 were probably manufactured at the latest '00. Not sure when the G2 started showing up, but G1 should probably read ? - 2000.

 

[lauver]

vjquen,

Got it, will correct.

 

[vjquan]

I was at my local sears today and happened to check what the ratchets are up to now. To my amazement, all the thin profiles are now with a new designator - KX. I was unable to check the standard raised panel ratchets as they were covered with some sticker.

 

[lauver]

MAD,

I have uncovered some information (not rock solid yet, but promising) on your "Super-Tuff" screw drivers.

1) I found a 1952 tool catalog on the internet and it listed Super-Tuff screw drivers as new in the 1952.

2) Someone over on the Craftsman Club website posted about Super-Tuff drivers and indicated these were made by Lectrolite. There was some additional discussion about the screw driver manufacturers on a related post saying that the owner of Lectrolite left the company in 1964 and created a new company, Western Forge, in 1965 with the financial assistance of Sears.

So, at this point, I'm willing to list the manufacturer as "possibly Lectrolite", with approximate production dates of "1952 -1964". My problem is I can't remember the series codes you indicated were on these drivers. Can You refresh my failing memory on the two series codes associated with Super-Tuff drivers?

EDIT: I found examples of the Super Tuff drivers in the 1949 Sears Hand Tool catalog. I guess the guys at the CC website were wrong about the introduction date. So I'm extending the date range to 1949-1964. Also, I have been unable to find any photos of the Lectrolite drivers on the internet so far. I also could not find my one and only Dunlap screwdriver. I did manage to find a Dunlap wood chisel and it has a handle similar to the Dunlap screwdrivers (amber and Red smooth handle) that I think predated the Super Tuff series screwdrivers. MAD- see page 8 of 1949 hand tool catalog, Extension handle (D) and Flex-spinner handle (E)...that's how I remember the Lectrolite driver handles looking. The CC guys may be wrong on the manufacturer too.

 

[MAD]

MAD,

I have uncovered some information (not rock solid yet, but promising) on your "Super-Tuff" screw drivers.

1) I found a 1952 tool catalog on the internet and it listed Super-Tuff screw drivers as new in the 1952.

2) Someone over on the Craftsman Club website posted about Super-Tuff drivers and indicated these were made by Electrolite. There was some additional discussion about the screw driver manufacturers on a related post saying that the owner of Electrolite left the company in 1964 and created a new company, Western Forge, in 1965 with the financial assistance of Sears.

So, at this point, I'm willing to list the manufacturer as "possibly Electrolite", with approximate production dates of "1952 -1964". My problem is I can't remember the series codes you indicated were on these drivers. Can You refresh my failing memory on the two series codes associated with Super-Tuff drivers?

Most of my Craftsman screwdrivers with typical red, clear and blue plastic handles have the common WF (Western Forge) and PR (Pratt Read) id. marks. A few of my older ones from garage sales have different markings. One is a beefy flat head with an unusually large 1/2" blade. The handle is identical to the modern screwdrivers with no number but marked with an F. I suspect that this one was made by Millers Falls since I have a 1/2" Millers Falls screwdriver that is identical accept for the length and the handle. I cannot remember seeing another Craftsman screwdriver with a 1/2" blade. I have another "F" marked red, clear and blue screwdriver that is also marked "Super-Tuff". I also have another "Super-Tuff" screwdriver with a circled G mark.

Also see post 146 in this thread.

 

[eschoendorff]

Does someone have a picture of the "Super-Tuff" screwdrivers?

 

[lauver]

Perhaps with over 200 posts you are right that it is better outside this thread. I think I may start a new thread that is geared towards matching recent and current Craftsman tools with the OEM source. I stumbled on a new source of info this morning that has confirmed a lot of my assumptions and provided some new information as well.

MAD,

I'm still wondering about your new source; could you share it with us? I always enjoy reading through your sources/links.

 

[lauver]

Easco did at one time market a second line of tools called "Nova" that was made in Taiwan. Here are some examples on ebay.

http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&dfsp=32&from=R40&satitle=EASCO+NOVA&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&fts=2&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=01360&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=32&fsoo=2

What makes you think that the E and EE series codes are Easco, other than that it sounds plausible? I am not saying that it is not Easco. Just that many of the known codes do not match the letters of the company name.

MAD,

I've got to hand it to you, I think you were absolutely right. After months of pondering and exploring other sources/threads here's what I've pieced together:

E/EE = Stanley Works, ca. 1986 - 1992, some USA made, some Taiwan made. Initially Stanley facilities were in USA, but were later migrated to Taiwan. The Stanley-E/EE connection came to light in posts 298, 297, and 309 of this thread and were all posted by heelsroll. Nice work!

V/VV/VVW/KW = Easco and Easco/Danaher, ca. 1968 - 2008, with the Easco/Danaher period starting in 1990 when Danaher acquired Easco. These series codes came to light in the "Easco Ratchet" thread.

It appears that Stanley was a suplemental source whose services were no longer required after Danaher acquired Easco and took over as the principal source to Sears/Craftsman. Your link to the SEC Sears-Easco/Danaher filing was helpful in piecing this together.

So, thanks for a great question and a great link!!!

 

[lauver]

Does someone have a picture of the "Super-Tuff" screwdrivers?

eschoendorff,

I don't know if MAD has photo capability, but his post #146 has a copy of an old catalog page that shows the entire Super-Tuff line of drivers in B&W. Also, if memory serves, Alloy Artifacts has pictures of many Lectrolite tools including drivers (i think). I'll check on this tonight and post some pics of Lectrolite drivers if available.

 

[eschoendorff]

eschoendorff,

I don't know if MAD has photo capability, but his post #146 has a copy of an old catalog page that shows the entire Super-Tuff line of drivers in B&W. Also, if memory serves, Alloy Artifacts has pictures of many Lectrolite tools including drivers (i think). I'll check on this tonight and post some pics of Lectrolite drivers if available.

I'll go check those out...

 

[MAD]

Does someone have a picture of the "Super-Tuff" screwdrivers?

eschoendorff,

I don't know if MAD has photo capability, but his post #146 has a copy of an old catalog page that shows the entire Super-Tuff line of drivers in B&W. Also, if memory serves, Alloy Artifacts has pictures of many Lectrolite tools including drivers (i think). I'll check on this tonight and post some pics of Lectrolite drivers if available.

I will try to post some photos of the Super-Tuff Screwdrivers. Don't get too excited though, they are only slightly different in appearance than the standard Craftsman Screwdrivers.

 

[eschoendorff]

I will try to post some photos of the Super-Tuff Screwdrivers. Don't get too excited though, they are only slightly different in appearance than the standard Craftsman Screwdrivers.

I figured that out after looking at post 146.

 

[lauver]

Alloy Artifacts has very little on Lectrolite, a few wrenches and no drivers. Somewhere I've got a Dunlop screwdriver. These, I believe, immediately preceeded the Super-Tuff screwdrivers. They are different; yellow plastic handle with red tip on handle and no ribs. I'll try to find it.

 

[MAD]

lauver,

You have a P.M.

 

[lauver]

lauver,

You have a P.M.

Thanks MAD!

 

[lauver]

Danaher operates a big plant in Garland Texas. I believe this is where most of the production that was done in the Springfield, MA More drop forge plant was moved to. G could = Garland

The Garland plant shares the same address as Kingsley tools.
K could = Kingsley.

I got a really crappy Craftsman 3/8" dr ratchet with a KR series code around the time when production would have been shifting away from the More plant to the new facility.

MAD,

You've done it again. After an exhaustive internet search, I've been able to pin down one series code GK-G to Kingsley Tools. This all was made possible by your theory (above) and a lucky find.

Thanks for the help.

About when did the Danaher acquire the Garland facility?

 

[T56 Impala]

Okay, I'm sorry if this is a repeat but this is a LONG thread and I'm not going to re-read it.

Craftsman reversible ratcheting wrench bought 1999 or 2000 (as part of a set) coded GK-A. Same wrench (replaced broken one) today, code GK-G.

I hope this adds to your collection of codes. The colour of the chrome on the GK-G is much darker, almost a smoke colour compared to the GK-A. The ratcheting end is also slightly thicker visually. The ratcheting mechanism is much tighter too. It simply feels stronger than the GK-A variant.