different kind of generator hook up

[fatkidracer]

at my old house i had a 200amp outside transfer switch to hook to my 7500 watt Honda gen set. i wanted to be able to just start the generator and turn things on until it stalled. it was a little over $1200 installed and like always once it was in the power went out like twice for the five years i lived there after.

came home to my new house last night and the power was out and i had no idea how long it had been out and the message service said to expect it to be out till 7:30pm so i drug the gen set out and ran cords to my two fridges and the TV and remembered what a pain in the *** that was.

so my new house has a 400 amp service split to two panels. one serves the house and one the garage and pole barn some day (the barn is about 500ft away and just a bare shell that needs finished but i need to build a road to it). there are two panels in the garage one just has a 200amp main breaker and that panel feeds into the house where there is another 200amp breaker and the actual house circuits. the other panel has the garage circuits.

is there anyway to put something in the empty 200amp panel in the garage to safely feed the whole house without spend 1K+?

 

[CJ7VFR]

How about an Interlock kit for your panel? They come with a double pole breaker and the interlock metal sliding piece that attaches between your panels main breaker and the double pole breaker. You would also need a power inlet box and some heavy gage wire going from the power inlet box to the Interlocks double pole breaker.

You might have to attach it in the panel that currently has all the breakers for the house, as I am not sure you can put it in the blank panel. Someone else many know for sure about that.

They sell the Interlock kits online for all types of panels using different brands of breakers. The kits usually cost anywhere between $100.00 and $200.00.

With these kits, you turn on (and off) the breakers to the things you want to run while the main electrical power is off. You may be limited to running about 30 amps worth of items, so running the central AC or an electric stove may be out.

But you would be able to run just about everything else. Just not all at once.

Jim

 

[fatkidracer]

i have seen those interlocks but i think your right on it having to be attached to the panel in the actual house which is a no go as its in the basement and i have no easy way to run the cord due to layout.

as far as only using 30amps of power and turning off circuits i didn't have to do that with my old 200amp transfer and i don't really want to with however i do it at this house.

when we installed my old switch we hooked it up to the gen set and the electrician put a clamp meter on the feed lines and i went inside and turned on the hot water. with the electric hot water heater going and the well pump on i had enough left to have some led lights on. that's all i care about. the gen set almost stalled with the water heater, well pump and oil boiler on at the same time. the electrician said to just make sure you didn't run all three at the same time as it may damage the gen set or one of the motors on the well pump or boiler from not getting clean power. but on a summer night i could have a whole 1200sf house of led lights on while watching tv with 2 small window a/cs going with no problems.

 

[Cmreschke]

Not th at I'm aware of. (Ops original question)
Your only common connection point is probably at your meter?

 

[Rookie2]

You can interrupt the power feed from the meter to the main panel with a transfer switch . then install a plug / receptacle for the gen set.

 

[Cmreschke]

so my new house has a 400 amp service split to two panels. one serves the house and one the garage and pole barn some day (the barn is about 500ft away and just a bare shell that needs finished but i need to build a road to it). there are two panels in the garage one just has a 200amp main breaker and that panel feeds into the house where there is another 200amp breaker and the actual house circuits. the other panel has the garage circuits.

I'm not sure what your saying here. Can you clarify?

 

[fatkidracer]

i feel there has to be some way to cut line power at the empty box in the garage and feed generator power into the house. the empty box in the garage is basically a secondary discontent. i didn't build the house i am not sure why it is set up the way it is.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The OPs description is a bit confusing so i eill ask this.

Where does the main service come in at? The garage? If so is it just a meter pan or is there a main service panel?

If just a meter pan with dual lugs, then the only thing u can do without spending a lot of money is put in an interlock on the garage panel that feeds the house. U wont have generator power in the garage though.

Is the garage attached or detached?

Can u post pics of the service entrance?

 

[Cmreschke]

How many total panels on the service?
OK this is my guess based on what I read,
400 amp service, (probably a double lug 320) goes to 2 different panels. 1 panel feeds all house ckts. 1 panel feeds garage and future pole barn power, from this second panel it goes to garage? Garage has the genny possibly another panel?

And you want to feed house off of generator but which is electrically only connected at the meter would be my guess, correct?

 

[fatkidracer]

the pictures in the first post show the panels in the detached garage. the meter is on the outside wall directly behind those panels. the meter has two wires going through the wall, one to each panel i assume. from the panel with just a 200amp main beaker the wires go in conduit from the garage to the basement of the house. in the basement is another 200amp main breaker and all the house breakers like normal.

i am not looking to power the garage, just the house. if one of those inexpensive interlocks can be placed on the 200amp main breaker in the garage and have the cord attached there and its safe for the lineman and my home that's what i want to do.

does that make more sense?

 

[brewchief]

I'm thinking that the empty panel is a feed through panel, if so I don't see why you couldn't use an interlock, a pic with the cover off would help.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Cmreschke]

Take a picture of the panel that feeds the house with the cover off. That will completely clear things up for me at least. It is definitely clearer now. Your house panel in basement is a subpanel. Right?

 

[fatkidracer]

i will try and get a picture with the cover off this weekend. i guess you could call the panel in the basement a "sub-panel" or the empty one a "feed through".

 

[fatkidracer]

so something like this will enable me to feed the panel in my basement and protect linemen working on the gird?

 

[Cmreschke]

Potentially.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

so something like this will enable me to feed the panel in my basement and protect linemen working on the gird?

Yes but u need one that matches the brand and model of the panel. Looks like u have an Eaton BR. The one in the link is for an Eaton CH.

Does your house panel have an available breaker slot?

 

[nadogail]

Why has nobody mentioned a multi-pole double throw knife switch?

I haven't seen one in use since I left Spain and moved back to the USA in '69, but somebody must still make them. They were both cheap and effective.

 

[theoldwizard1]

How about an Interlock kit for your panel?

i have seen those interlocks but i think your right on it having to be attached to the panel in the actual house which is a no go as its in the basement and i have no easy way to run the cord due to layout.

You hardwire a plug to the outside of the house like any other portable generator setup.

• Turn off the main
• Go outside and start the generator and plug it in
• Go back inside and turn off all breaker to "unnecessary" circuits (typicall electric water heater, electric stove, electric dryer and A/C)
• Flip the interlock and turn on the generator breaker

 

[theoldwizard1]

Why has nobody mentioned a multi-pole double throw knife switch?

Those are call "safety switches" because they come inside of a metal box (so arcs do not fly around).

A 200A, 3 pole (got to switch neutral), 3 position (ON-OFF-ON) safety switch is pretty darn pricey ! Over $600 new, but you can sometimes find god used ones for 40% off.

 

[Cmreschke]

You do not NOT not gotta switch the neutral. It is not switched in an ats or mts. So why would you need to switch in a double throw knife switch?

 

[fatkidracer]

OK here are the pictures of the inside of the panel, the pole and the meter.

 

[fatkidracer]

Yes but u need one that matches the brand and model of the panel. Looks like u have an Eaton BR. The one in the link is for an Eaton CH.

Does your house panel have an available breaker slot?

i believe there is one or two open spots in my panel in the basement, but not in the upper left.

You hardwire a plug to the outside of the house like any other portable generator setup.

• Turn off the main
• Go outside and start the generator and plug it in
• Go back inside and turn off all breaker to "unnecessary" circuits (typicall electric water heater, electric stove, electric dryer and A/C)
• Flip the interlock and turn on the generator breaker

this is what i don't want to have to do, try to keep it easy for the wife.

Those are call "safety switches" because they come inside of a metal box (so arcs do not fly around).

A 200A, 3 pole (got to switch neutral), 3 position (ON-OFF-ON) safety switch is pretty darn pricey ! Over $600 new, but you can sometimes find god used ones for 40% off.

that is what i believe i had at my old house and it was over $1000 installed.

 

[TractorJeff]

I read your original post slowly, twice! The breaker in the garage feeds thru to the house which makes the house a sub panel. Put an interlock breaker in the Main panel on the 200 amp breaker that feeds the house. Put a weather-tite electrical box on the outside of the garage to plug the generator in.
Its not hard!

 

[checkthisout]

Yeah.

Interlock kit on house panel. Then you run a wire from your house panel to what's called a generator inlet. They are like $30.00 and it's simply a 30 amp male plug built into a metal box.

Easy as pie.

It'll be less than like $200.00 for the wire, plug and interlock kit.

 

[theoldwizard1]

this is what i don't want to have to do, try to keep it easy for the wife.
.
.
.
that is what i believe i had at my old house and it was over $1000 installed.

Yep, easy = expensive !

• Turn off the main
• Go outside and start the generator and plug it in
• Go back inside and turn off all breaker to "unnecessary" circuits (typically electric water heater, electric stove, electric dryer and A/C)
• Flip the interlock and turn on the generator breaker

If you have a portable generator you MUST do step #1 and #2 anyway.

STEP #3 is only required for those high power appliances. Yo can skip it entirely if you tell the wifey not to turn them on (she will find out the hard way if she does.)

I consider step #4 to be even easier than flipping the handle on a safety switch.



Safety switch OR interlock, your electrician has started out in a manner that WILL NOT GET YOU WERE YOU WANT TO BE !!

 

[theoldwizard1]

It appears and I an only say "appears" because we have no idea where those wires com from or go to, the second panel is an incredibly expensive disconnect with 2 breaker in series (more wasted money) for you out building.

You meter "pan" (base) has 2 outlet.

If it were my house, I would remove the second panel (a.k.a. "load center" or "breaker box") and wire from the meter base. I am GUESSING that the output of the second breaker goes to the the 90° pulling elbow (a.k.a. LB) that goes down into the ground and who know where. Save this because you will use it when you build you out building.



You could move this breaker and wire to you main load center, but this would only give you 200A service for house and outbuilding COMBINED.


We have to see inside the meter base to see what other options you have. ASSUMING there are TWO fused/breaker disconnects coming off the base (likely), the second one should run straight to the out building to give you your TRUE 400A split 200A/200A service.


Of course, none of this has anything to do with the generator hook up.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Hey Sparkies, I know it is practice, but it seem illogical that the customer owned meter base ids "sealed" by the POCO especially if there is any kind of disconnect in there !

 

[brewchief]

It appears and I an only say "appears" because we have no idea where those wires com from or go to, the second panel is an incredibly expensive disconnect with 2 breaker in series (more wasted money) for you out building.

You meter "pan" (base) has 2 outlet.

If it were my house, I would remove the second panel (a.k.a. "load center" or "breaker box") and wire from the meter base. I am GUESSING that the output of the second breaker goes to the the 90° pulling elbow (a.k.a. LB) that goes down into the ground and who know where. Save this because you will use it when you build you out building.



You could move this breaker and wire to you main load center, but this would only give you 200A service for house and outbuilding COMBINED.


We have to see inside the meter base to see what other options you have. ASSUMING there are TWO fused/breaker disconnects coming off the base (likely), the second one should run straight to the out building to give you your TRUE 400A split 200A/200A service.


Of course, none of this has anything to do with the generator hook up.

The panel is being used as a disconnect, it simply has the 200 amp main and a subfeed block, code requires disconnects to be grouped so this is how they did it. To add a generator interlock the subfeed block would need to be dropped down a couple of spaces, may or may not have enough slack in the wires to move it.

Hey Sparkies, I know it is practice, but it seem illogical that the customer owned meter base ids "sealed" by the POCO especially if there is any kind of disconnect in there !

There will be no means of disconnect in that meter base, the panels on the inside of the garage are the first point of disconnect.

 

[checkthisout]

After actually looking at the pictures *cough*.

You can use an interlock kit on that panel that's being used as the house disconnect. Just install the backfeed breaker in there, buts out the 2 knockouts and add the inlet and done.

That's pretty nice actually. He used an empty breaker panel for the 200 amp disconnect instead of regular 200 amp switch.

Now you can put your generator in your detached garage and feed your house! Pretty cool actually.

 

[fatkidracer]

ok so we have determined that i can put an interlock on the bare panel in the garage and that will feed into the house correct?

so now the question is this... does this interlock act like my old 200amp transfer switch? meaning i can just run whatever i want until the genset stalls?

 

[fatkidracer]

It appears and I an only say "appears" because we have no idea where those wires com from or go to, the second panel is an incredibly expensive disconnect with 2 breaker in series (more wasted money) for you out building.

You meter "pan" (base) has 2 outlet.

If it were my house, I would remove the second panel (a.k.a. "load center" or "breaker box") and wire from the meter base. I am GUESSING that the output of the second breaker goes to the the 90° pulling elbow (a.k.a. LB) that goes down into the ground and who know where. Save this because you will use it when you build you out building.

why take all this out? is it a safety thing? i bought this place from the bank so i know nothing about it.



You could move this breaker and wire to you main load center, but this would only give you 200A service for house and outbuilding COMBINED.


We have to see inside the meter base to see what other options you have. ASSUMING there are TWO fused/breaker disconnects coming off the base (likely), the second one should run straight to the out building to give you your TRUE 400A split 200A/200A service.


Of course, none of this has anything to do with the generator hook up.

The panel is being used as a disconnect, it simply has the 200 amp main and a subfeed block, code requires disconnects to be grouped so this is how they did it. To add a generator interlock the subfeed block would need to be dropped down a couple of spaces, may or may not have enough slack in the wires to move it.



There will be no means of disconnect in that meter base, the panels on the inside of the garage are the first point of disconnect.

why do the sub feed blacks need moved down? is that the wires below and to the right of the main i assume?

 

[brewchief]

why do the sub feed blacks need moved down? is that the wires below and to the right of the main i assume?

The upper right is the space that all of the generator interlocks that I've seen use for the backfed breaker.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OP- it looks like SER was used to go from the house panel to the house. Can u take a closer look at the cable that goes through the knockout above the 200a breaker. Does it have a jacket?

 

[theoldwizard1]

There will be no means of disconnect in that meter base, the panels on the inside of the garage are the first point of disconnect.

Obviously because it can not opened by the costumer (why didn't I think of that before !)

I know they make meter bases that are split in two so there IS a disconnect for each out going feed.

EDIT : Siemens MC0816B1400RLTM

You do need to purchase the second 200A breaker for the top 2 space opening.

 

[checkthisout]

ok so we have determined that i can put an interlock on the bare panel in the garage and that will feed into the house correct?

so now the question is this... does this interlock act like my old 200amp transfer switch? meaning i can just run whatever i want until the genset stalls?

Yes. You may need to move the wires that are connected to the bus down a couple spaces though.

 

[fatkidracer]

ok i think i have a starting point to start calling electricians. i will post up when i get someone in to do the work.

 

[fatkidracer]

Obviously because it can not opened by the costumer (why didn't I think of that before !)

I know they make meter bases that are split in two so there IS a disconnect for each out going feed.

EDIT : Siemens MC0816B1400RLTM

You do need to purchase the second 200A breaker for the top 2 space opening.

ya that's the thing i am trying to avoid. besides i don't care if the garage or barn has power, i just like to be able to poop when the power is out.

 

[theoldwizard1]

You can use an interlock kit on that panel that's being used as the house disconnect. Just install the backfeed breaker in there,

YES, the interlock and generator breaker but be install there ! I assume the panel for the house is the larger on the right.

Some of those breakers will have to be moved to accommodate the generator breaker

ok so we have determined that i can put an interlock on the bare panel in the garage and that will feed into the house correct?

INCORRECT ! The garage panel (smaller one the left) is nothing more than a disconnect for the wires running to the garages. It has NOTHING to do with the house !

The lugs on the buss feed the wires going directly to the garage.

so now the question is this... does this interlock act like my old 200amp transfer switch? meaning i can just run whatever i want until the genset stalls?

YES !

 

[fatkidracer]

the smaller panel on the left is the empty one that is a "disconet" for the house.

this is the inside of it.

the panel on the right with breakers in it is the panel for the detached garage and it will someday feed the barn.

you can flip the 200amp in the empty panel and the light stay on in the garage, and you can flip the 200amp in the garage panel and the lights stay on in the house. 2 separate 200amp feeds coming from the meter.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

YES, the interlock and generator breaker but be install there ! I assume the panel for the house is the larger on the right.

Some of those breakers will have to be moved to accommodate the generator breaker



INCORRECT ! The garage panel (smaller one the left) is nothing more than a disconnect for the wires running to the garages. It has NOTHING to do with the house !

The lugs on the buss feed the wires going directly to the garage.


YES !

Wizard- u are the one who is incorrect.

The panel with the 200a breaker and lugs is for the house feed.

The OP knows what he is talking about here.