Dimple Dies

[Bruce4310TX]

I am in for 1 of each standard and pipe.

 

[NASTYZEN]

1.5'' Dimple Dies..............Check!
Turning up the 1.75'' ones as I type.

After seeing Stump's project using 11 Gauge. I decided to do a little testing.
These Dies are made of C 12 L 14 which is the equivalent of Cold Rolled Steel with a little more lead content for ease of machining.
Meaning, they are on the soft side and not meant for industrial use. They are for the hobbyist and priced accordingly. They are also gaped for .065 material. not 1/8'' but work fine with .032 thru .074.
If we go 4130 or 4340 the price will easily double if not triple.....

That said, I have some Aluminum ones that I have been using for years, mainly on Alu. sheet, but occasionally on mild steel and they are still in fair shape. The only wear is at the contact point of the edge of the hole and the beginning of the rad. on the upper Die.
It does not affect the dimple on the sheet visually because that part gets drawn into the bottom die.

So here are the results of my testing.
The first test was on a piece of .125 mild steel (remember these are not designed for 1/8 !!!) using a 1 1/2'' Die.
I used Gorilla force of about 12 tons...
Works half bad and the sheet stays deformed and needs to be hammered from the back side to be flat again.
Top Die was gouged a little as expected.

Next used 1/8 Alu. 6061 T6. (Couldn't find any softer in the shop) and the results were about the same. The dies are gaped for thinner mat...

Next I tried , with the same gauged die on .071'', .062'' and .046'' mild steel.
Works fine, but a little hard on the dies. a little oil will go a long way to help, but I went dry to be extreme.

Lastly I found some .032'' .065'' .075'' and .090'' Alu sheet and using the same gouged Die, dimpled them all and found the results great except for the .090'', which needs to be beat back a little. It is T-6 though and would get better results with something softer like utility 3003 alloy.

In conclusion, If they are used on Aluminum only, they will last you a lifetime.
If they are used on mild steel, they will gouge a little on the contact point, but still do a fine job of it, yet deteriorate over time.
If your an animal with them, there is no saying how long they will be usable before needing to be refreshed on a lathe again.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Turning on a Saturday night........ 1 3/4 Dies Done!

Next up, the 3/4s and 1/2''ers .

But now it's Miller time.

 

[38D]

Awesome! If any of the 30 sets are not spoken for, I'd be down for a set.

 

[uhohjim]

My mouth is watering just looking at those babys.....can't wait Jim

 

[synik]

PM me when your done with a Both complete sets! Add me on the list please!

 

[Jim Stabe]

Just moving up the poll message again so it doesn't get lost.

I have set up a poll for those of you that want a set of dies: standard sizes or pipe sizes.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136269
The links I posted before did not work because I just copied and pasted the message containing the link and that apparently does not work. This one should.

Please go to the link and mark your preference. I believe your response will create a list but just to be sure post a reply with your choice so Claude will know who to contact.

Claude, I just got back from vacation and am impressed with the progress you have made. I measured all the pipe punch dies and I'll try and punch the holes today or tomorrow and send all the dimensions.

 

[38D]

Link above is broken. Here's the corrected link to the poll:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136269

 

[NASTYZEN]

My fingers are bleeding!!

Question about the pipe Dies....

Just about done turning the back sides of the 3/4'' dies and to start off on the backs of the 1/2'' . The tooling n setups are similar, so less of a pita to do them this way.

The od's are 1 3/4'' and 1 1/2''.

The smallest pipe or conduit size seems to be 1/2'' with a hole of between .850'' to .885'' that would bring the OD. of the Die. to 2.0''.

So.....

Would it be safe for me to not set aside any of these two
(1 3/4 and 1 1/2 )and go ahead and turn them into reg. size dimples when I get there?

Also on the bigger end of things...I'm going to have to order some 3.0'' and 3.5'' bar to make the 1 1/2'' and 2.0'' sized pipe Dies.
With those in I should also be able to offer a 2.0'' and 2.5'' reg. Dimple Die as well.Will see about pricing for those when I get there...

Thank's
Claude

 

[Jim Stabe]

My fingers are bleeding!!

Question about the pipe Dies....

Just about done turning the back sides of the 3/4'' dies and to start off on the backs of the 1/2'' . The tooling n setups are similar, so less of a pita to do them this way.

The od's are 1 3/4'' and 1 1/2''.

The smallest pipe or conduit size seems to be 1/2'' with a hole of between .850'' to .885'' that would bring the OD. of the Die. to 2.0''.

So.....

Would it be safe for me to not set aside any of these two
(1 3/4 and 1 1/2 )and go ahead and turn them into reg. size dimples when I get there?

Also on the bigger end of things...I'm going to have to order some 3.0'' and 3.5'' bar to make the 1 1/2'' and 2.0'' sized pipe Dies.
With those in I should also be able to offer a 2.0'' and 2.5'' reg. Dimple Die as well.Will see about pricing for those when I get there...

Thank's
Claude

Claude

You inspired me to go out and punch some holes. I measured the die I.D, the punch O.D. and the punched hole size. This site won't let me attach an Excel file so I inserted it into a Word document. Let me know if you can't read it.

After I tried to insert the Word document it told me that it was too big so here we go manually:


Pipe Size OD ID Hole Dia Thrd Size

3" 3.500 3.52 3.506 3/4-16
2" 2.373 2.392 2.374 3/4-16
1 1/2" 1.937 1.956 1.941 3/4-16
1 1/4" 1.692 1.712 1.692 3/4-16
1" 1.362 1.38 1.365 7/16-20
3/4" 1.116 1.138 1.118 7/16-20
1/2" 0.883 0.903 0.89 7/16-20

 

[Jim Stabe]

Claude

The automatic formatting on the site smashes everything together so it is difficult to read. PM me your email address and I'll email you the excel spreadsheet. This shouldn't be that difficult!

Jim

 

[NASTYZEN]

Are they cute or what?

That's 40 sets of the 1/2'' Dimples done.
Working on the 3/4''ers now.

 

[Jim Stabe]

Now we need some enterprising woodworker to make cases to keep the set of dies in. These die sets are such works of art that the case would need to be cabinet quality and felt lined.

 

[StumpXJ]

Dangit man... those are SWEET! im still in for the standard set, and I may pick up a pipe set after its all said and done. Thanks for doing some testing for us too, lets me know for sure what they are capable of. I think they will work out just fine for most hobbyist.

So whats the rough time frame looking like now? By my count, you are finishing production of the first run of standards?

 

[StumpXJ]

Also, on your test pieces, are you using a bolt to draw them together or a press?

 

[NASTYZEN]

Also, on your test pieces, are you using a bolt to draw them together or a press?

Used my shop press.

I am now done with the 6 standard hole sized Dimples. Hurray!

Next is figure out how much they cost me to make. I shall tabulate all the cycle times and hopefully have them for sale by Friday or at the latest Monday.
I need to catch up on all the work that this has backed up!

 

[grego]

Thank you so much for doing this, I am about to start on my Model A project and these will come in handy. I will keep my eye open for the sale location and start time.
Between your lathe work and ZTFab's welding skills, I am in mucho abmiration of your skills.
Mind if I come and sweep up your's or ZTFAB's shop and allow you to fill my empty cup with your knowledge till it runneth over?
Man that was the cheesiest **** up I have done in a long while, but seriously.....

 

[Hephaestus29]

Used my shop press.

I am now done with the 6 standard hole sized Dimples. Hurray!

Next is figure out how much they cost me to make. I shall tabulate all the cycle times and hopefully have them for sale by Friday or at the latest Monday.
I need to catch up on all the work that this has backed up!

Are you making any out of steel or just aluminum ?? Thanks H.

 

[Jim Stabe]

They are all steel but not heat treatable.

 

[NASTYZEN]

I should have a final price for the standard hole saw size soon...

I today ordered the missing bar stock to complete the pipe hole sizes, another 2100.00........ouch!

For sure the pipe sizes will be a bit more because of the bigger material.I will work on that next week.

I still need some details from my friends web site and to get a packaged set weighed at the post office.
Canada and US postal service is best for north America ($$$) and UPS service for other countries, is what I am told.

Having bounced my Pentax camera off the floor and knocking out the viewer, I was unable to take nice shots. So yesterday after having wasted all my time at the court house( long expensive story vs my BIL) I picked up a coolpix Nikon camera. Takes great pics.

Patience my fellow GJ brothers ,I shall PM every single one of you soon.

Claude

 

[Hephaestus29]

They are all steel but not heat treatable.

For what reason are they not heat treatable ?

 

[synik]

Very nice! PM ME WHEN DONE!

That would be cool for someone to create a wood box for these. Something to keep them all together.

 

[Jim Stabe]

For what reason are they not heat treatable ?

They are made from a free machining steel that does not have enough carbon content to allow them to be heat treated. Claude discussed the material somewhere in the thread and said that if the dies were made from a heat treatable alloy the cost would triple (or something like that).

 

[NASTYZEN]

All info sent to my web master....in his hands now.

Thank's for your patiance.

Claude

 

[NASTYZEN]

Ok guys. I was busy this weekend.
Oiled and taped together.

30 sets of the regulars ready to go!

I received some of the materials for the missing pipe sizes as well as for the second batch this morning.
I will start cutting it down to size for the lathe, but before getting to turning em up.
I have some backed up work as well as previous engagements to look after.
The pipe and bigger sizes will be available in 2 -3 weeks. Beginning with the 10 sets that already have the back side machined.

So, as promised , here is the link where you can get em. My friend Michel should take good care of you.

http://www.clubvirages.com/index.ph..._id=38&Itemid=109&lang=en&vmcchk=1&Itemid=109

You can now PM me with your questions and I will do my best to get back to you soon.
Thank's
Claude

 

[Jim Stabe]

The site looks great Claude. Can't wait until the pipe set is done. Let me know if you need any additional info on the HF punch set or anything else.

Jim

 

[Professur]

Damn Claude ... I shouldn't have read your friend's site.

 

[NASTYZEN]

The site looks great Claude. Can't wait until the pipe set is done. Let me know if you need any additional info on the HF punch set or anything else.

Jim

Thank's a ton for your help and support Jim. You will be the first to know when I am done. There will even be a surprise for you in the end....

Damn Claude ... I shouldn't have read your friend's site.

In that case ,you may enjoy this one as well. I'm the guy with the big grinder.

http://www.amg944.com/

Never had noticed your location before....rather clever

 

[Jim Stabe]

Claude

I never looked at the build thread for your shop before, very impressive. I thought that I built a pretty beefy English wheel but it doesn't hold a candle to that one of yours. Is that a massive ball bearing you are using for the upper wheel?

I'm also jealous that you get to work on car projects like the super car you linked to. I wish I lived closer, I would like to see more of what you do.

 

[Boost Creep]

i see the pipe sized listed on there already. can we pre-order our sets of those?

 

[NASTYZEN]

Claude

I never looked at the build thread for your shop before, very impressive. I thought that I built a pretty beefy English wheel but it doesn't hold a candle to that one of yours. Is that a massive ball bearing you are using for the upper wheel?

I'm also jealous that you get to work on car projects like the super car you linked to. I wish I lived closer, I would like to see more of what you do.

Thank's about my shop,my back wasn't very impressed with me.
There are two bearings pressed inside that upper wheel that I machined on my old CVA lathe. There is also a groove machined in the side of the wheel to help rotate it back and forth on small pieces and also when you engage a piece into it twhen I don't use my quick realese . Gotta remember not to leave your thumb in the way....
I am fortunate to have folk trust me with there many diverse projects.
Your welcome to visit any time Jim.

i see the pipe sized listed on there already. can we pre-order our sets of those?

You can pre order yes. You will only be billed when there will be stock available. I guess you will be first in line, after Jim Stabe though...
If you look at the bottom left, on that page you will notice a note saying 'on order'
I'll be posting my progress here for the pipe sizes as I have with the standard sizes.

 

[tkbowman]

When I went to order, the additional shipping cost was about 50% of the price of just the productss. I'll pass for now and give up my spot. They are certainly great looking items.

 

[DJ_Bucho]

These look absolutely fantastic. I'm based over in the UK and am currently in the processing of performing a complete renovation of my first house and double garage.

I'm always on the look out for nice good quality tools to have in my garage (I've added a set of these to my list) but unfortunately I'm currently kitchen-less so the garage has kind of take a bit of a step back at the minute

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the difference between the standard sized set and the pipe sized set?

 

[NASTYZEN]

When I went to order, the additional shipping cost was about 50% of the price of just the productss. I'll pass for now and give up my spot. They are certainly great looking items.

I am looking at a different way to package these so as to reduce the shipping costs....

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the difference between the standard sized set and the pipe sized set?

Please go back and read some more of the threads and you will see it has been thoroughly discussed before.

 

[RonRock]

They should easily go by USPS in a flat rate box. I thought that was the plan.

 

[Gamble]

Can you sell half of a set? I just want some to play around with.

 

[NASTYZEN]

They should easily go by USPS in a flat rate box. I thought that was the plan.

I have someone looking into that option as well as NAFTA papers.
I won't release anything t'ill it's all sorted out...

Can you sell half of a set? I just want some to play around with.

Later maybe, but not with this batch. Which half would you be interested in?

 

[grego]

I am looking at a different way to package these so as to reduce the shipping costs....

So what happens to us that already spent the money for the overpriced shipping?
If your friend does business with his website to anyone in the US he should have known the best and cheapest way to ship these dies.
I was disappointed with the cost of shipping but I figured it was the cost of doing business and gave my word to get a set.
I guess I am going to revisit my shipping policy on my eBay store and stop busting my **** to give Canadian the cheapest shipping I can. I think I will also start charging a tax like I was at checkout. So when any Canadians whine about the high cost of shipping I will remind them of my experience with shipping something south of the border.
I am not mad or upset, I guess I had a nice eye opener in doing business with Canada.

 

[NASTYZEN]

I am looking at a different way to package these so as to reduce the shipping costs....

So what happens to us that already spent the money for the overpriced shipping?
If your friend does business with his website to anyone in the US he should have known the best and cheapest way to ship these dies.
I was disappointed with the cost of shipping but I figured it was the cost of doing business and gave my word to get a set.
I guess I am going to revisit my shipping policy on my eBay store and stop busting my **** to give Canadian the cheapest shipping I can. I think I will also start charging a tax like I was at checkout. So when any Canadians whine about the high cost of shipping I will remind them of my experience with shipping something south of the border.
I am not mad or upset, I guess I had a nice eye opener in doing business with Canada.

If you look at your transaction, you will note that you have not yet been billed for anything......

I have someone looking into this right now. I shall only release items when this gets straightened out. I want to be fair with everyone and will make this happen. Have no worries.

I am a fabricator, not a shipping expert, tax collector, lawyer or other....
Please bear with me as I try to satisfy everyone in an equitable manner.

If you look back at my first posts about these Dies, you will see that my main concern was the BS and PITA about shipping and billing in the first place.
All I am trying to do is carry the ball for someone else who dropped it to help my fellow GJ members out. Please note that not counting my time ,I am into this for several thousands in materials already........

Thank you for your patience.

Claude

 

[grego]

First let me say that I greatly appreciate all the work you have done and the fact that you stepped up make you a great person.
I only said what I said because you said that you had a person with a web site that had experience shipping stuff. I am not complaining about the price of the dies or the shipping. You didn't have it figured out and made no quotes when I agreed to purchase both kinds off dies. I have not live in canada for a while,( BC side), and never shipped anything when I lived up there, too young. I ship lots of stuff up north thru eBay as well as ship up lots of stuff and car parts to my dad and uncles in Alberta so I know it can be difficult.
If that is the best shipping price, so be it. But I can hope that someone close to you stateside will step up and bring them over and flat rate them. I live in California and if you could find a cheap way to get them to me, I would be more than willing to do it. But again it would cheaper and easier to have someone pick them up and drive it over.