Dp220 or craftsman 100dp

[BigAl96]

First post but long time lurker. I'm looking at picking up a drill press to replace my current pos 5 speed benchtop hf special, and 2 of them nearby have really caught my eye, but I admittedly know very little about older power tools. I am a hobbyist knife maker, and tend to fabricate bracketry, and other odds and ends for my cars, boat or projects around the house so i tend to work witha lot of sheet metal and tool steel barstock, so I'm assuming If I go with the craftsman, I'll add the jziggy slow speed pulley.

The delta already has a slow speed pulley setup, but needs at minimum a start capacitor for the motor as it has to be started by hand.

i am looking at the older vintage presses mainly due to the look my wife and I are going for in the garage, and I feel that 9 times out of 10 old tools are built far better than similarly priced newer pieces.

I'd love to hear your opinions of the two presses and which you think would be the better long term option for restoration and use.

 

[FrankLee]

I have zero experience with Delta and a ton of experience with Craftsman, so I can't really give a comparison between the two.

I do believe the Deltas are a step up towards industrial quality and Craftsmans were sold as home shop use. I also suspect that many more Craftsman drill presses were sold than Delta.

I can say that Craftsman uses readily-available bearings and used parts are relatively easy to get. My biased opinion is that Craftsman drill presses are easy to refurbish.

I don't think you can beat King-Seeley Craftsman on retro looks.

I think that either machine will fulfill your needs.

 

[exmaxima1]

You didn't mention your budget, but a CM drill press w/Ziggys center pulley (approx $150) will find you at $250 or more. The Delta might be the better investment.

 

[Davefr]

I would choose the machine that's in the best overall condition. They are both excellent vintage 15" machines. One disadvantage of the DP200 is that I believe it uses proprietary ball bearings and any machine from that era should have the bearings rebuilt or replaced. I would look into that.

I'm a fan of the 17" Delta DP600s and would include that in your search along with the CM 150's. Condition is everything.

 

[BigAl96]

You didn't mention your budget, but a CM drill press w/Ziggys center pulley (approx $150) will find you at $250 or more. The Delta might be the better investment.

Both machines can be had right at $100. With the delta needing motor work. It will put them close enough in price that I'm not going to concern myself too much with it.

 

[exmaxima1]

Motors are relatively cheap to replace, while a factory Delta center pulley alone fetches $200+ on the auction site. Lots of value in the Delta at $100. The Delta is 14", so a tad smaller than a Craftsman 100/150. I think I would go for the Delta and add a variable speed motor.

 

[FrankLee]

Do you have any links or photos of those machines? There may be some noticeable pros and cons.

Also, please update your profile with your general location.

 

[Davefr]

Motors are relatively cheap to replace, while a factory Delta center pulley alone fetches $200+ on the auction site. Lots of value in the Delta at $100. The Delta is 14", so a tad smaller than a Craftsman 100/150. I think I would go for the Delta and add a variable speed motor.

... or a 3 phase motor and a VFD.

 

[Firebrick43]

I would choose the machine that's in the best overall condition. They are both excellent vintage 15" machines. One disadvantage of the DP200 is that I believe it uses proprietary ball bearings and any machine from that era should have the bearings rebuilt or replaced. I would look into that.

They do use proprietary bearings and they are NLA.

However if one has a lathe you can take a 5000 series bearing(exact one escapes me at the moment) and machine a sleeve that is green loctite to the inner race and is functionally the same

If you don’t have a lathe then you can purchase them from several vendors already done.

This is the one off the top of my head

http://www.hammerscale.com/HTML/Products/DrillPress/DP220B.html

I haven’t used them as I made my own. I am partial to the DP220 obviously

 

[BigAl96]

Do you have any links or photos of those machines? There may be some noticeable pros and cons.

Also, please update your profile with your general location.

 

[BigAl96]

Do you have any links or photos of those machines? There may be some noticeable pros and cons.

Also, please update your profile with your general location.

My bad, they didn't upload on the original post

 

[Firebrick43]

Buy both and sell me the flip up belt cover for 100$

 

[FrankLee]

That 100 is very likely a '52-'53. Those did not come equipped with a head trim panel or chrome plated parts. It was obviously repainted poorly. It's nothing special. The table surface is nicer than the Delta.

I'm a Craftsman guy, but I'd advise to go with the Delta with the belt cover and slow-speed pulley. Regardless, you still need to assess condition, especially runout.

It looks like the Delta has an external capacitor which would be very easy to replace, The old cap should have the specs printed on it somewhere. I use Airstar Supply for replacement caps. They are USA made, reasonably priced with free shipping.

 

[Davefr]

I agree. Get the Delta. It looks original and in pretty good shape. Stripping the paint off that CM would be a miserable job and reflective of other "half ***" repairs/modifications from the previous owner.

If you get a good deal based on a dead motor, take the savings and get a 3 phase motor and VFD.

That style belt guard is very scarce.

 

[Tano]

I have rebuilt and own both DP's, (I also have Walker Turners) that Delta DP220 has the low speed attachment already, that is your best investment. The bearings on a delta are special, like the Walker Turners, but there is a seller on Ebay I have used that has direct replacements at a reasonable price. I personally like them both for different reasons. I have a sentimental attachment to Craftsman's. but the delta is, as Frank Lee mentioned, is a step up towards industrial quality. Y you can swap low speed and high speed spindle pulleys on a delta, but not the craftsman and you can easily convert the delta to a three handle quill from by swapping it for one off of a 17" delta which bolts right on, (they sell these on ebay all the time in the 50 dollar range). Other than it already having a low speed attachment, you will be happy with either. I will say, and others like Frank lee can attest, that the rust on those columns is going to make disassembly interesting, but not impossible. My suggestion, buy them both

 

[BigAl96]

That 100 is very likely a '52-'53. Those did not come equipped with a head trim panel or chrome plated parts. It was obviously repainted poorly. It's nothing special. The table surface is nicer than the Delta.

I'm a Craftsman guy, but I'd advise to go with the Delta with the belt cover and slow-speed pulley. Regardless, you still need to assess condition, especially runout.

It looks like the Delta has an external capacitor which would be very easy to replace, The old cap should have the specs printed on it somewhere. I use Airstar Supply for replacement caps. They are USA made, reasonably priced with free shipping.

I'm definitely leaning towards the delta. This craftsman 150 popped up as well. It looks to be missing a handle, and I believe the 150 does not have the tilting table.

I'll probably go grab that Delta today

 

[FrankLee]

This craftsman 150 popped up as well. It looks to be missing a handle, and I believe the 150 does not have the tilting table.

Yeah, it's not much better than the 100. It's also missing the rapid-adjust feed stop collar and the head trim panel is in poor condition.

 

[BigAl96]

Yeah, it's not much better than the 100. It's also missing the rapid-adjust feed stop collar and the head trim panel is in poor condition.

That's why I asked, I wouldn't have even known what to look for on that stuff!

 

[aquinob]

Go with the Delta. Craftsman was always a homeowner machine, Delta is moving into light industrial for that model. I've rebuilt a few deltas though not that model and I also did a Cman benchtop version. Cman used a good amount of Zamak for things like the quill handle center and that is never a good thing. They can look nice with the turned metal trim and polished bits, but that isn't what a drill press is about.

If you can step up a bit there are plenty of older presses kicking around that are more industrial. Older Pmatic 1150s and Delta 15-017 that can be had for a couple hundred. Check out the auction sites and be patient, they do pop up.

Trivia Note: IIRC the Delta was never that model number. Rather it is a casting mark or part number cast into the head or the cover that reads DP 220.

 

[FrankLee]

The Delta is missing one feed stop thumb nut and this looks odd to me. Both are minor.

 

[BigAl96]

Go with the Delta. Craftsman was always a homeowner machine, Delta is moving into light industrial for that model. I've rebuilt a few deltas though not that model and I also did a Cman benchtop version. Cman used a good amount of Zamak for things like the quill handle center and that is never a good thing. They can look nice with the turned metal trim and polished bits, but that isn't what a drill press is about.

If you can step up a bit there are plenty of older presses kicking around that are more industrial. Older Pmatic 1150s and Delta 15-017 that can be had for a couple hundred. Check out the auction sites and be patient, they do pop up.

Trivia Note: IIRC the Delta was never that model number. Rather it is a casting mark or part number cast into the head or the cover that reads DP 220.

Theres a set of buffalo no. 18s close to me for around 200, the seller only put up one picture for them, and isn't very easy to communicate with (he did say he thinks both machines have the 3rd pulley), but I may go check them out as well. I like that the no18 has a table lift on it, but it's a bit bigger than I originally wanted to go

 

[aquinob]

This is in AZ and is as far from homeowner grade as you'll most likely get. A Powermatic variable speed 1200 with 3 phase current bid at 200: https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,az/auction/view?auc=3652584

 

[BigAl96]

This is in AZ and is as far from homeowner grade as you'll most likely get. A Powermatic variable speed 1200 with 3 phase current bid at 200: https://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/all,az/auction/view?auc=3652584

While I would love to buy something like this, it will stick out too far from the wall and is probably far bigger than needed.

Plus, my wife would probably kill me when I rolled the engine hoist out front to get it out of my truck lmao.

 

[aquinob]

Theres a set of buffalo no. 18s close to me for around 200, the seller only put up one picture for them, and isn't very easy to communicate with (he did say he thinks both machines have the 3rd pulley), but I may go check them out as well. I like that the no18 has a table lift on it, but it's a bit bigger than I originally wanted to go

Can't quite figure what is going on with the production table on that press, looks like it is hanging down.

Take a looksee here to get a better idea of what you are working with. Heavy beasts for sure. http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=19020

All Buffalo drill presses: http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=129&tab=4

 

[Whitworth]

Hasn't anyone mentioned the obvious yet?
No brainer, get both !

 

[Maui]

Please tell me you already bought that Delta.

 

[BigAl96]

Please tell me you already bought that Delta.

Tomorrow is the first day he's available.

 

[JZiggy]

Hope you give us good news today! As much as I'd love to make a pulley for you, I think the Delta is a no-brainer if you can only get one machine.

 

[BigAl96]

Hope you give us good news today! As much as I'd love to make a pulley for you, I think the Delta is a no-brainer if you can only get one machine.

Please tell me you already bought that Delta.

Just grabbed it for $85! Start capacitor is definitely the issue, grabbing a new one on the way home, bearings, Pulleys and everything else look great

 

[Firebrick43]

Just grabbed it for $85! Start capacitor is definitely the issue, grabbing a new one on the way home, bearings, Pulleys and everything else look great

You ****!

 

[Davefr]

Just grabbed it for $85! Start capacitor is definitely the issue, grabbing a new one on the way home, bearings, Pulleys and everything else look great

Yep, you ****!! Any plans to restore it or just put it to work?

 

[BigAl96]

Yep, you ****!! Any plans to restore it or just put it to work?

Definitely not a full rest, but I'm going to get it cleaned up, stripped, painted, change the feed handle to a three handle version and put it to work.

I may fill the arc of shame with my welder and go have the table ground flat.

Down the road, I may try to build a table lift mechanism for it

 

[Davefr]

Definitely not a full rest, but I'm going to get it cleaned up, stripped, painted, change the feed handle to a three handle version and put it to work.

I may fill the arc of shame with my welder and go have the table ground flat.

Down the road, I may try to build a table lift mechanism for it

I'd think twice about filling an arch of shame with a welder. Some guys have indicated it can crack the cast iron table. Do some research first. The images of the table don't look too bad. I'd go the JB Weld route.

Post images of your progress.

 

[BigAl96]

Yep, you ****!! Any plans to restore it or just put it to work?

Well ****, I got it home and one thing led to another, now it's completely torn apart on my work bench. I'm going to build a "poor man's lathe" with casters and a drill to polish the column, along with polishing all the hardware and handles, painting the covers and tables, and making knobs for the feed handles

It's missing one handle for the head which I'll need to replace, along with the depth stop nut, and after getting into it, the bearings appear to be original and will need replaced eventually, although there's no detectable play.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to increase the contrast of the depth measurements on the quill? The patina on mine, makes the numbers fairly difficult to see from most angles.

 

[Davefr]

Well ****, I got it home and one thing led to another, now it's completely torn apart on my work bench. I'm going to build a "poor man's lathe" with casters and a drill to polish the column, along with polishing all the hardware and handles, painting the covers and tables, and making knobs for the feed handles

It's missing one handle for the head which I'll need to replace, along with the depth stop nut, and after getting into it, the bearings appear to be original and will need replaced eventually, although there's no detectable play.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to increase the contrast of the depth measurements on the quill? The patina on mine, makes the numbers fairly difficult to see from most angles.

I know some guys make a lathe setup to polish the column but I use 1" wide sanding strips that are sold in a roll and wrap a 2-3' strip around the column and just pull it back and forth from top to bottom. Start with 80 grit. Once you get past 150 grit you can use regular sandpaper and then scotch brite and finally metal polish. Protect the column with paste wax.

Need images of your depth scale. Is the scale engraved on the quill? If so, just polish the quill to around 600 grit and then brush on some paint to cover the engraved area. After the paint dries sand it. The remaining paint will stay in the recessed/engraved numbers. Pick the paint color to maximize contrast.

 

[Nick Rivers]

"...Does anyone have any suggestions for how to increase the contrast of the depth measurements on the quill? The patina on mine, makes the numbers fairly difficult to see from most angles..."

This is for a Starrett 12" scale, but the same principle applies. You could go with red or a brighter color:

 

[BigAl96]

So I've got the entire press disassembled, the cast iron parts (minus the head because I don't want to damage the labels) are in an electrolysis bath. After replacing the start capacitor, I found that the motor that came with it needed bearings and other work. I just picked up a 1.5hp dayton 56 frame for $60 to replace it.

Does anyone have a source for reproduction labeling on these presses? Also, I'm trying to decide on a color for this thing. Hammered gray is the original from what I can tell. But both red and blue have crossed my mind as well

 

[Davefr]

Does anyone have a source for reproduction labeling on these presses? Also, I'm trying to decide on a color for this thing. Hammered gray is the original from what I can tell. But both red and blue have crossed my mind as well

Start by obtaining the artwork file for the nameplate you need. There's a large Delta library in the wiki at vintagemachinery.org or scan one. Now make any changes, tweaks using Photoshop. Once you have a good image go to bayphoto.com and upload the image and order metal, sheer glossy. Contact their customer service if you need help with sizing. The will make you a metal nameplate on aluminum using their excellent infused metal printing process.

Here's an example. It cost me about $25 and is superior to a decal.




If your original badge has relief it can be restored. Spray the black and red backgrounds with lacquer and then sand/polish the raised letting/outlines.

Delta seemed to use different shades of gray over the years. I like charcoal gray but its personal preference. Smoke gray seems a little too light.

 

[BigAl96]

Start by obtaining the artwork file for the nameplate you need. There's a large Delta library in the wiki at vintagemachinery.org or scan one. Now make any changes, tweaks using Photoshop. Once you have a good image go to bayphoto.com and upload the image and order metal, sheer glossy. Contact their customer service if you need help with sizing. The will make you a metal nameplate on aluminum using their excellent infused metal printing process.

Here's an example. It cost me about $25 and is superior to a decal.




If your original badge has relief it can be restored. Spray the black and red backgrounds with lacquer and then sand/polish the raised letting/outlines.

Delta seemed to use different shades of gray over the years. I like charcoal gray but its personal preference. Smoke gray seems a little too light.

Damn, that looks great. My original badges are in really good shape though so I don't know if all that is needed. I'm leaning towards hammered bronze or hammered charcoal color.

How did you get the old plate off and rivet on the new one, it doesn't appear the rivets on the headstock go all the way through the iron so I don't really want to drill them out to replace them

 

[Davefr]

Those rivets are actually drive screws and they are not easy to remove.

Plan A: use a thin screwdriver and carefully try to pry up the plate from underneath. Go gradually and work all the way around. If you see any movement you may get them out this way.

Plan B: Use a Dremel and slice a slot in the head of the drive screw and hope you can remove them with a screwdriver like removing a screw. I've found that you usually sheer off the drive screw head and then you never get the rest of it out.

Plan C: If the drive screw head sheers off, just drill two new holes next to them. The nameplate will likely cover the old sheered off screw. That's what I had to do with the Delta motor. But on the below DP head Plan A worked fine for the serial number nameplate.